Need some feedback on moving together

These must be emotional issues coming up which have little to do with the exact shape of the situation at hand. Would likely happen in some form with any partner and any flat.

Which is very much in line with what you and I have been discussing. Anxiety for change, for the routine to slip, is very common and can be difficult enough on its own without the importance that comes with this decision. Doesn't mean you should never trust anxiety, just don't use it on its own as proof it's a bad idea.
 

Tinwen

Active member
Which is very much in line with what you and I have been discussing. Anxiety for change, for the routine to slip, is very common and can be difficult enough on its own without the importance that comes with this decision. Doesn't mean you should never trust anxiety, just don't use it on its own as proof it's a bad idea.
Yes, yes, I know. I don't have huge issues with routine (I can change stuff if I know what the change entails), but I certainly do have issues with unpredictability. And this kind of transition is very unpredictable already for my taste. That's certainly a part of it.
 

icesong

Moderator
Staff member
It sounds like if you're willing to commit to this being a *short* term (a year or three?) solution, that it might make a really good trial. The only thing with that is that it may be useful to have conversations before the move about what success looks like and what failure looks like, and what you (both you individually, Tinwen, and you (all) as a network) plan to do after the trial in both scenarios.
 

Tinwen

Active member
It sounds like if you're willing to commit to this being a *short* term (a year or three?) solution, that it might make a really good trial. The only thing with that is that it may be useful to have conversations before the move about what success looks like and what failure looks like, and what you (both you individually, Tinwen, and you (all) as a network) plan to do after the trial in both scenarios.
Yes. I don't think we can manage to arrive at a conclusion now, with a limited timeframe and the number of emotional issues that surface for all of us. But I'll do my best to keep this conversation line open throughout the adjustment period and beyond.
Thinking of a 2-3 year timeframe I may be also able to finally figure out if I want a baby or not, also Meta's kid will be growing and starts needing its own space eventually, so there may be pressures emerging which are not as evident yet.
 
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breathemusic

Active member
While the new flat isn't perfect, it sounds like your current one isn't really working for you either, and that you're willing to adjust to the things you don't love about the new flat. I think that's a step in a positive direction.

The fact that you ideally want kids, which means you really want very close proximity (which makes sense because if Idealist has kids in 2 different households at young ages it can be important for him to be able to bounce between during trying times) definitely makes this a good way to test the waters toward a possible longer term solution.

I think you need to ask yourself, what would you need to have established in terms of boundaries in order to feel comfortable committing to this being a shared flat.

If it were me, this would mean:

-Know before singing the lease what the agreed expectation is going to be for meta having access to the flat. If I were you, I'd be saying, this is not her flat, it's yours and idealists, which means she never comes over without requesting (she should be able to mostly do this with Idealist).

-What happens if you break up before the lease is over? Is Idealist willing to commit to his share of the rent for the duration of the lease even if you break up? If not, can you afford the flat on your own?

-Is you moving into the flat going to have any change in the amount of time that he spends with you? Is more of your time together now going to be with him having his child along as well?


Plenty of other things might come up that you all will have to deal with, but those are probably things that any polycule would have to deal with as relationships grow closer.

If nothing else, this does at least seem like it's a good opportunity to test the next step in your relationship and will help you decide if you can reasonably have kids with idealist given the current poly configuration.
 

vinsanity0

Active member
I don't think you have to defend anything. I think these are normal anxieties. This is big step with a big unknown regarding the obvious boundaries. I also think it has a little to do with how Idealist arrived at this decision. You wanted something like this, but he wasn't totally on board until Meta came up with this idea. So it's like the decision wasn't yours and his together. It's like it was hers. And that can suck to feel like you aren't in total control. We all talk about how people should do what's right for them, but poly is really an exercise in compromise sometimes.

I admit I don't know what all problems you and Meta have, but hopefully this new situation will help and not hurt your relationship. I think you should go for it. I think you are at a point in your life where you need to know if this is going to work or not. There is only one way to find out.

(Hopefully I'm not too far off base here.)
 

Tinwen

Active member
Thanks people. We signed the lease.

I think the last comments are very much spot on - while there are doubts, it's an opportunity to find out what is and isn't feasible in the relationship.

I'm feeling much better about the move now. We negotiated a nice rent given what's available, and it will be a huge improvement space-wise.

I'm less hung up on possible boundary issues with Meta, she knows that she should not be just dropping in surprisingly and I have more trust that we can sort out the rest as we go ahead.

What's a bit stressful now are the practicalities of moving, but hopefully, we can manage!
 

icesong

Moderator
Staff member
That’s great news and I’m excited for you!
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
"And, of course, if he needed to care for the baby, he could bring him to your flat? I wouldn't want her having free access to my home while I was away at work. I don't see any reason why she'd need to aside from drop off or pick up the baby."

Personally, not many poly people I know would commit to having their child in a home for a significant amount of time yet their own presence is severely restricted. Even away from poly, I don't know many mono people who are happy that they aren't able to have access to the home their child spends a significant amount of time. At the very least, they want to check it out and see who the other residents are. That goes for mothers and fathers.

I wouldn't dream of inviting a child to be partially raised in my home, perhaps with their half siblings, and having rules about whether their other co-parent(s) can pop round. If me and the co-parents are in such contention, sharing parenting/adult duties for minors just isn't a viable option.

I just can't see how it will work in the kid's favour with the adults unable to share space. This is about the mental health and emotional wellbeing of children. The fact that the adults can't share nice is a real obstacle here.
 

Tinwen

Active member
"And, of course, if he needed to care for the baby, he could bring him to your flat? I wouldn't want her having free access to my home while I was away at work. I don't see any reason why she'd need to aside from drop off or pick up the baby."

Personally, not many poly people I know would commit to having their child in a home for a significant amount of time yet their own presence is severely restricted. Even away from poly, I don't know many mono people who are happy that they aren't able to have access to the home their child spends a significant amount of time. At the very least, they want to check it out and see who the other residents are. That goes for mothers and fathers.

I wouldn't dream of inviting a child to be partially raised in my home, perhaps with their half siblings, and having rules about whether their other co-parent(s) can pop round. If me and the co-parents are in such contention, sharing parenting/adult duties for minors just isn't a viable option.

I just can't see how it will work in the kid's favour with the adults unable to share space. This is about the mental health and emotional wellbeing of children. The fact that the adults can't share nice is a real obstacle here.
I mostly agree. Yes, conflicts are dangerous for kids.

However, I'm dating a man with a kid. In monogamous terms, we're the closest to a patchwork family, closer than to an actual kitchen-table poly household. If Idealist was to divorce/break up, then find me, then his child being over while his co-parent not being very welcome in the new home is exactly what would happen.

Meta is a good mom, and I can be a loving auntie. We totally can't share a kitchen, but I think we can agree on basic child-raising principles. And I have the advantage of knowing the kid almost since birth. When allowed to make age-appropriate choices about where he wants to spend his time, the little one will be fine, I believe. He certainly seems to be a happy extraverted child so far.
 
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SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
I mostly agree. Yes, conflicts are dangerous for kids.

However, I'm dating a man with a kid. In monogamous terms, we're the closest to a patchwork family, closer than to an actual kitchen-table poly household. If Idealist was to divorce/break up, then find me, then his child being over while his co-parent not being very welcome in the new home is exactly what would happen.

Meta is a good mom, and I can be a loving auntie. We totally can't share a kitchen, but I think we can agree on basic child-raising principles. And I have the advantage of knowing the kid almost since birth. When allowed to make age-appropriate choices about where he wants to spend his time, the little one will be fine, I believe. He certainly seems to be a happy extraverted child so far.

I don't agree that in a monogamous relationship, it would inevitably go a way where Meta would be inherently unwelcome. I know that a lot of mono couples who break up transition into blended families with perfectly amicable relations between newer adult members and where nobody needs excluding from the home their child is partially raised. I also know mono people who choose not to pursue a relationship where this conflict arises.

The idea of purposely adding children to a situation which will be strained in this way rather than it be an unwanted possible outcome doesn't sit well with me. For me, the fact that you and Meta cannot share nice puts natural limits on how entangled you can both ethically become with your hinge before it causes harm. It just seems awkward for the kid all round.
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
And you won't be aunty. You're the kid's dad's partner so you'll be known as dad's partner, stepmum or even parent by the kid. Aunties and uncles are people who are or very much like siblings of your parents. Would you want the kid to think you have a brotherly relationship with its dad even though you are sexually and romantically intimate? Seems confusing. Especially if you then go onto mother that child's half sibling.
 
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FallenAngelina

Well-known member
And you won't be aunty. Your the kid's dad's partner so you'll be known as dad's partner, stepmum or even parent by the kid.

This is important to think about. Seems you could choose what role you're comfortable taking, but it's important to note that you are indeed not an auntie, which is very much a non-sexual intimate of the parent. As the years go on, you'll very likely find yourself more in a parental role than an auntie role. It will be increasingly important for you to delineate for yourself just what your responsibilities are - and what are the expectations of the other parents? It's pretty easy to be laid back about this with a baby/toddler, but the issue will become more pressing as discipline and guidance are required.
 

PinkPig

Well-known member
"And, of course, if he needed to care for the baby, he could bring him to your flat? I wouldn't want her having free access to my home while I was away at work. I don't see any reason why she'd need to aside from drop off or pick up the baby."

Personally, not many poly people I know would commit to having their child in a home for a significant amount of time yet their own presence is severely restricted. Even away from poly, I don't know many mono people who are happy that they aren't able to have access to the home their child spends a significant amount of time. At the very least, they want to check it out and see who the other residents are. That goes for mothers and fathers.

I wouldn't dream of inviting a child to be partially raised in my home, perhaps with their half siblings, and having rules about whether their other co-parent(s) can pop round. If me and the co-parents are in such contention, sharing parenting/adult duties for minors just isn't a viable option.

I just can't see how it will work in the kid's favour with the adults unable to share space. This is about the mental health and emotional wellbeing of children. The fact that the adults can't share nice is a real obstacle here.

There's a huge difference between not having free access to someone's home and being unwelcome in the home. Tinwen's home is not an extension of Meta's home and should be respected as such. Even if it were a bedroom in the same apartment with Meta, it is polite and appropriate for other family members to respect each other's space. No reason children shouldn't learn that early.
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
There's a huge difference between not having free access to someone's home and being unwelcome in the home. Tinwen's home is not an extension of Meta's home and should be respected as such. Even if it were a bedroom in the same apartment with Meta, it is polite and appropriate for other family members to respect each other's space. No reason children shouldn't learn that early.

The OP confirmed that Meta knows she can't just drop in in a later post. I was going off of that.
 

Tinwen

Active member
This is important to think about. Seems you could choose what role you're comfortable taking, but it's important to note that you are indeed not an auntie, which is very much a non-sexual intimate of the parent. As the years go on, you'll very likely find yourself more in a parental role than an auntie role. It will be increasingly important for you to delineate for yourself just what your responsibilities are - and what are the expectations of the other parents? It's pretty easy to be laid back about this with a baby/toddler, but the issue will become more pressing as discipline and guidance are required.
We'll have to let that unfold. I can see basically two approaches: her child-her rules, or my home-my rules, and any reasonable blend of those. I think where I lean will heavily depend on the lifestyles we have going on, and also on how much agreement there will be between Idealist and Meta.
I say "auntie" to indicate that I lean toward little responsibility, and also little input into their parenting rules, I can go with what she (or they) decide on. This could change if I have my own kids and it becomes easier handling them as a bunch.
I fail to see why me having a sexual (as opposed to just emotionally intimate) relationship with Idealist should change how I relate to the child. Right now, to it I'm just another person who comes over sometimes. Just like Meta's sisters do. Later on, he'll go visit dad and "auntie" at the other place. I think Meta will probably be the primary caregiver all along even in the Meta-Idealist couple, due to their setting, so the kid will mostly spend hours, not days or days, at our flat. I could be wrong about that.

I think the most important thing is that I keep a good relationship to the child, so that IT feels welcome.
 
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SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
"I fail to see why me having a sexual (as opposed to just emotionally intimate) relationship with Idealist should change how I relate to the child. Right now, to it I'm just another person who comes over sometimes."

Because sex changes things. Not just sex but romantic intimacy. It isn't the same. You're not going to be like his brother or his best friend from high school
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
To me, it seems more like a step parent role. You're the step mom to your partner's kid. Your house, your rules. You can have as much or as little interaction with Meta as you wish. As the kid grows to be a toddler, you and Idealist can decide on discipline techniques together. Kids get used to going between parents, and having different rules and expectations at each dwelling. This is extremely common in blended families.

There's not even any need for her to "drop off or pick up kid." Idealist can go get his kid from his other flat, and then bring him back!

This doesn't have to be so complicated. If Meta needs her kid, she can text Idealist, he can take kid to her. She doesn't need access to YOUR flat at all! She doesn't even need to come to your door, much less come inside.
 
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