Needing help with a poly marriage

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more info.

The guy was told by me with the parameters of the friendship was supposed to be and I found out because I had a bad feeling that he wasn't going to follow them. They message through Instagram and she left her chat opened and I had an insecurity and looked at their conversation.

Peeking into other people's accounts is not ok. I hope you do that work of detangling and work on your insecurity.

Both of our biggest fears are of course a divorce, we lose 10 years of happiness that we've had up until this point. Or she stops talking to this guy and is heartbroken for some time.

She didn't stick to the original experiment thing of being with the friend, and found this other guy. For you that was moving goal posts.

At this time? She chose to go back to monogamous marriage. So... she could expect to deal with her ex and her break up feelings.

Since my last post this morning her and I had a conversation while she was at lunch and talking to a counselor this morning she has agreed to have no contact with the guy from here on out at the expense of some emotions.

Maybe this is just ripples still riding out before things finally settle down.

I think she could change her passwords, you could stop peeking. And difficult as it may be? Ride it out. Expect some ripples along the way, but expect her to hold up her monogamous marriage agreements.

Be less involved in her break up stuff with the help of counselor. That's for her to clean up. Not you.

I get this is fresh for all of you still. I hope in time things get better.

Galagirl

 

[Diverdude]

As of last night after my wife got home from work we sat down and she talked to me about some things that she had on her mind and we officially iron some stuff out that she had concerns about.

We both agreed that he was being disrespectful to the boundaries that I had set and figured out that she also agreed that if he wasn't going to respect the new boundaries of the friendship that she wasn't going to have contact with him anymore. I did bring up the fact that I felt like she wasn't holding her end of the bargain up as well do to me seeing their conversation yesterday morning which I know it was a breach of her Trust and I admitted it to her that I should never have done that.

We both woke up this morning feeling a sense of pain and heartache but at the same time we both feel like with everyone's help and the counselor we made a step forward to making our marriage work and making sure that we're there for each other in the ways we need each other and we have talked to a few of our friends to set up having dinner with them tomorrow and we're both working on trying to find other outlets for her to have hobbies or friends outside of our immediate friend group and relationship.

 

[kdt26417]

Sounds like you are slowly working things out with your wife. It is hard work, but with love and determination, you can get through it.

 

[Diverdude]

Well with a little bit of trial and tribulations. She started talking to the same guy again. I feel like I'm being cheated on and she says that I shouldn't feel that way because I am the one her allowed her to make that connection in the first place. I'm fighting so hard to make things work but we are at a point where I feel like I'm losing her to this. She said she feels like she is being caged and controlled, feels like she doesnt have a choice to do what she wants. We have been actively doing therapy and I was thinking it was helping but the whole time she was talking to the guy and lying to me about it again. We both feel like we are growing apart to some extent and we both fear this is the end. I've come very close a few time to just giving up on us and I'm stuck in a tough emotional state of sadness.

She asked me yesterday if we separated and she realized she made a mistake, would I take her back. I think I would because I love her so much and I would miss her when she left.

 

[kdt26417]

Thank you for updating us on your situation. I'm very sorry to hear that things have taken a downward turn. I hope the two of you do not have to separate, you have ten years of happiness behind you and I would not want you to lose that. The two of you are perfect for each other in every way, other than this one little thing. Poly. Only poly isn't very little, is it.

It hurts when the one you love is cheating on you. And that is what she is doing. Cheating. This greatly complicates the situation, and makes you feel like you cannot continue with the marriage anymore. I know you are very torn up about it, you do not want to leave her but you also don't want her to continue a cheating relationship. I just hope she'll stop that.

 

[GalaGirl]

We both agreed that he was being disrespectful to the boundaries that I had set and figured out that she also agreed that if he wasn't going to respect the new boundaries of the friendship that she wasn't going to have contact with him anymore.

If this was the newest agreement?

Well with a little bit of trial and tribulations. She started talking to the same guy again. I feel like I'm being cheated on and she says that I shouldn't feel that way because I am the one her allowed her to make that connection in the first place.

And she's just ignoring the agreement? Then she IS cheating on current agreements. And also trying to pass the buck on to you rather than take personal responsibility for her own actions. This to me is poor behavior -- I dislike blame shifting.

We have been actively doing therapy and I was thinking it was helping but the whole time she was talking to the guy and lying to me about it again.

This part is lying behavior.

Rather than lie? Would have been more respectful for her to say "I tried. I find that I can't keep those agreements. I'm making you aware that I intend to keep seeing him.

So we need to talk about whether or not we can stay together or if we should break up peacefully because I want poly and you do not."

We both feel like we are growing apart to some extent and we both fear this is the end. I've come very close a few time to just giving up on us and I'm stuck in a tough emotional state of sadness.

If all the choices are hard? Could pick the the one that stinks less.

To me that would be to end it. And at the next appointment in therapy say you are done with this weird. And want to talk about how to part ways with grace. Then wait for time to pass.

Time so you can heal, and time for sadness to fade and new feelings to ensue.

But if you keep riding the same merry-go-round thing? It's gonna keep being the same UGH feelings. How's anything supposed to change if both of you keep doing the same behaviors?

She's not entering agreements in good faith nor holding up her end of the stick. It's just dragging on disappointments with her poor behaviors for you.

It's ok to want to STOP. And no longer buy a ticket for this merry-go-round ride.

She asked me yesterday if we separated and she realized she made a mistake, would I take her back. I think I would because I love her so much and I would miss her when she left.

I can see you are upset and heartbroken. I get being in anticipatory grief over all this mess. But because of the broken promises/not keeping her word? I would be really leering about making any promises about the future.

I would have said "I cannot answer that well right now. Maybe yes. But maybe no. I rather deal with the today stuff and deal with future stuff in future."

I'm so sorry you are dealing in this. I think though, that if the big experiment failed and it's just become a PITA? There is a point when trust is used up and your heart just isn't in it any more to keep going for more. Are you at that point? If so?

Become more firm and resolute. Tell her don't want to be doing this any more. And if she wants to keep going with open/poly/cheating/whatever she's doing? It's going to be without you. So the next therapy appoint is
for talking about how to part ways peacefully.

Dragging out a break up serves nobody.

I think it's better to head toward the healing place. And linger there instead.

I am sorry though.

Galagirl

 

[Diverdude]

We had a conversation while she was at work yesterday and we both got a little angry and frustrated with eachother and in the feeling I wrote this to her but I have not shown her, should I still let her know how I feel or wait until therapy?


We both screwed up on not adding strangers to our relationship, we both broke our first rule on us wanting to make an open relationship work. Robert has been so disrespectful to me, to us and doesnt care about OUR relationship. He doesnt care about what we need for us and only has his best interests in mind. He is being selfish and when he continues to talk to you and being disrespectful to what boundaries were set. He is only worried about himself and what he can get from you, not what we are going through. We both agreed on that in the first place after I was lied to the first time, he isn't a good fit for us being healthy. My boundaries have been tossed out the window and have had no meaning to either of you. Yes he may say hes doing his best to help you out, but when he's not physically here, he can say whatever he wants to, to make you feel better. Hes not present in our relationship and has no clue what we are actually going through. I feel so disrespected by both of you. He doesnt know who the real YOU is, you dont know who the real him is. You guys haven't know eachother for long enough to really know eachother and you dont know him enough to know him as a whole. He the new play thing that excites you and yours focusing on him instead of us. hes forcing a wedge in between us. We may have our disagreements on the house and other small things that blow over but we've never fought, ever not until robert got involved. He is the factor for our pain.

I told you that poly may be something that I grow to open up to. It's not something that I want to persue right now and we both need to agree on not looking at it for us to work on our marriage first. We both each have a say on what partners we think we will be ok with, and as much as you hate that controll, that's what it comes down to, that is in the definitions of poly and an open relationship. We need to work on us first. We are eachothers priority we are a couple, we are husband and wife. We have been eachothers priority until now. We love eachother so much and this is the only thing, out of a very large list of things I cannot even write, that we love and do with eachother, this is something that we need to put on pause. I belive that you are hyporfocusing on needing outside validation in life from strangers and its hurting us and i think that your worry about not having enough outside sources for friendships is still a valid point that I want to help you with. I always want to be your support and be here for you so I think giving you some personal space to sort some things out within yourself is going to be the only way we figure us out and if you cant give me the same courtesy and be here for me and support my boundaries I need right now, I cant be here for you or yours. Its not fair for me to have to wait for you to find out you made a mistake to come back to me, and have me suffer the whole time while you are gone. After a time I may not be emotionally available and I'm scared of that fact.

 

[Inaniel]

Things are different now. When you made your original agreements neither of you had experienced NRE in 10yrs. You were ignorant to the emotional forces awaiting in a poly agreement. Though your wife is currently cheating on you, she deserves grace in the fact that she approached original agreements from an idealized perspective and not reality.

Maybe you have it all wrong, maybe Robert is not validation. Well, maybe he is, but the crux of what is happening is the “amory” part of what you agreed to. You can’t put love back in a box. No matter how many idealized privileged agreements you made prior.

You cannot strip the love of a child, or the love of a mother or father away from someone. Love can’t be stomped out.

You have the right to remove consent for yourself. Your wife is being clear about the fact that she is moving forward with Robert regardless of your consent. What being a responsible grown-up looks like now is taking responsibility for yourself and what you created. Remove yourself from the situation, get a divorce lawyer, leave your wife. Or accept her love for another and work together to find happiness in your new reality.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

We had a conversation while she was at work yesterday and we both got a little angry and frustrated with eachother and in the feeling I wrote this to her but I have not shown her, should I still let her know how I feel or wait until therapy?


We both screwed up on not adding strangers to our relationship, we both broke our first rule on us wanting to make an open relationship work. Robert has been so disrespectful to me, to us and doesnt care about OUR relationship. He doesnt care about what we need for us and only has his best interests in mind. He is being selfish and when he continues to talk to you and being disrespectful to what boundaries were set. He is only worried about himself and what he can get from you, not what we are going through. We both agreed on that in the first place after I was lied to the first time, he isn't a good fit for us being healthy. My boundaries have been tossed out the window and have had no meaning to either of you. Yes he may say hes doing his best to help you out, but when he's not physically here, he can say whatever he wants to, to make you feel better. Hes not present in our relationship and has no clue what we are actually going through. He doesnt know who the real YOU is, you dont know who the real him is. You guys haven't know eachother for long enough to really know eachother and you dont know him enough to know him as a whole. He the new play thing that excites you and yours focusing on him instead of us. hes forcing a wedge in between us. We may have our disagreements on the house and other small things that blow over but we've never fought, ever not until robert got involved. He is the factor for our pain.

I told you that poly may be something that I grow to open up to. It's not something that I want to persue right now and we both need to agree on not looking at it for us to work on our marriage first. We both each have a say on what partners we think we will be ok with, and as much as you hate that controll, that's what it comes down to, that is in the definitions of poly and an open relationship. We need to work on us first. We are eachothers priority we are a couple, we are husband and wife. We have been eachothers priority until now. We love eachother so much and this is the only thing, out of a very large list of things I cannot even write, that we love and do with eachother, this is something that we need to put on pause. I belive that you are hyporfocusing on needing outside validation in life from strangers and its hurting us and i think that your worry about not having enough outside sources for friendships is still a valid point that I want to help you with. I always want to be your support and be here for you so I think giving you some personal space to sort some things out within yourself is going to be the only way we figure us out and if you cant give me the same courtesy and be here for me and support my boundaries I need right now, I cant be here for you or yours. Its not fair for me to have to wait for you to find out you made a mistake to come back to me, and have me suffer the whole time while you are gone. After a time I may not be emotionally available and I'm scared of that fact.

I would hold onto it for therapy. I lot of this is about Robert - but this is written to your wife NOT to Robert, so I would recommend sticking to her and her behaviors. You have withdrawn consent to participate in an open/poly arrangement. If she agreed to stop and continued anyway, then she is cheating. The "whys" (external validation, new shiny, outside friendships) are therapy issues for your wife to work out herself with her therapist.

A few other points: Boundaries are limits that you set for yourself ("I will not participate in a cheating relationship."), rules are limits that you attempt to make other people follow ("You will not contact my wife during this time."). It's nice if people that we care about help us enforce our boundaries instead of pushing us against them - but, ultimately, the only behaviour that we can control is our own.

WRT "We both each have a say on what partners we think we will be ok with, and as much as you hate that controll, that's what it comes down to, that is in the definitions of poly and an open relationship." This is not exactly true - although it may be the model that you thought you agreed upon. It depends on the participants and their agreements - lots and lots of discussion here as to what open/poly means to different people. A lot of couples DO (at least initially) insist on "Veto" power - it rarely works well. More functional is a "messy people" list - we don't date family members or co-workers. These really only work well when you are initially chosing your dating pool and typically goes out the window if the relationship is already established. You can't but the emotional cat back in the bag, the genie is already out of the bottle.

If you still want to send a message I would trim it to the actionable points and requests for change. Maybe:

"We both screwed up on not adding strangers to our relationship, we both broke our first rule on us wanting to make an open relationship work. We both agreed on that in the first place after I was lied to the first time, (this relationship) isn't a good fit for us being healthy. (It seems to me, that) my boundaries have been tossed out the window and have had no meaning to you. I feel so disrespected. We may have our disagreements on the house and other small things that blow over but we've never fought, ever not until (now).

I told you that poly may be something that I grow to open up to. It's not something that I want to persue right now and we both need to agree on not looking at it for us to work on our marriage first. Its not fair for me to have to wait for you to find out you made a mistake to come back to me, and have me suffer the whole time while you are gone. After a time I may not be emotionally available and I'm scared of that fact."

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm so sorry. This sounds like poly hell to the max.

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for

www.kathylabriola.com

Could wait and have a therapy appointment by yourself to refine that draft before sharing it with wife with therapist present.

In this draft? I think this is too much Robert stuff. It is meant to be a conversation with her not him. It could focus on what wife behaviors you are willing to deal with and which ones you are not willing to put up with. Could request what changes in behavior you want or need from her at this time. She will either say yes or no to modifying her behaviors so she's dinging you less.

If she is just hell bent on making a mess? You may have to become more willing to step aside so that you don't get dinged. More willing to honor your own personal boundaries.

Because your personal boundaries? They are not for other people to obey. They are for YOU to create for yourself and for you to obey/enforce in order to minimize shenanigans from bumping into you.

Like if I have a boundary of "I don't lend my stuff to careless people" and my neighbor wants to borrow my weed whacker after breaking my lawn mower? He didn't repair or replace it?

I don't have to convince the neighbor to start being more careful and respectful. And give him access while just hoping he doesn't break more of my stuff again. I don't need new neighbor drama, the anxiety, or the stress.

I could take care of my own well being by honoring my own boundary. I could say "Sorry, neighbor. I'm not loaning things right now. Ask someone else." Just skip it all. Less shenanigans for me.

Its not fair for me to have to wait for you to find out you made a mistake to come back to me, and have me suffer the whole time while you are gone.

You don't have to hang around waiting/suffering. You can decide you don't want to be here.

After a time I may not be emotionally available and I'm scared of that fact.

And that is true. If you decide to step away from a relationship that is dinging you? Your feelings for her may fade. And you may no longer choose to be emotionally available.

But you have to be able to say "I love you a lot. But not even for you will I do stuff or stay in stuff that hurts me."

I can imagine it's hard, and you are grieving and possibly bewildered by this whole experience.

I get there's a learning curve to poly, and that's fine. But it's not an excuse to start taking existing relationship(s) for granted or neglecting them or treating them poorly while chasing the New Shiny Person.

If initial agreements "on paper" were not realistic "out in the field" and need to be reworked --ok. Fair enough. Part of the learning curve. And working it out calmly can build trust.

But just outright cheating on agreements and lies? That sort of behavior erodes trust. Especially when it would have been easier and more honest to say "No, I don't agree to that" from the start and skip this. You might not have enjoyed hearing that, but at least it would have been treating you with honesty.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from Diverdude):

"We had a conversation while she was at work yesterday, and we both got a little angry and frustrated with each other, and in the feeling, I wrote this to her, but I have not shown her. Should I still let her know how I feel, or wait until therapy?"

My advice would be to wait until therapy. What I suggest, is to print up a hard copy (of what you wrote to your wife), then bring it with you to your initial therapy session, and hand it to the therapist. Explain that you initially intended to show it to your wife, but that you then decided that emotions were running too high to be showing it to your wife. And that you hope the therapist can act as a kind of mediator for you.

I'm very sorry you are going through this.
Kevin T.

 

[dingedheart]

Things are different now. When you made your original agreements neither of you had experienced NRE in 10yrs.

this seems to be something you advise others to do but wouldn’t actually do if you were in his shoes. I mean agreements and trust are subjective in a marriage depending on the gravitational pull of NRE?

You were ignorant to the emotional forces awaiting in a poly agreement.

AND THUS all agreements are non binding or squishy. GET CAUGHT UP IN THE MOMENT AND “ FORGET “ condoms / birth control hey blame it on the NRE and ignorance of that chemical cocktail. Get knocked up …sorry that agreement was made back then.

Though your wife is currently cheating on you, she deserves grace in the fact that she approached original agreements from an idealized perspective and not reality.

seriously….deserves grace ??? I’m trying to figure out how you could even make this statement without her speaking for herself in this matter.

Maybe you have it all wrong, maybe Robert is not validation. Well, maybe he is, but the crux of what is happening is the “amory” part of what you agreed to.

I’d suggest maybe he’s right on many of the things that got them down this path and you’re right these are the consequences of being on this track.

You can’t put love back in a box. No matter how many idealized privileged agreements you made prior.

attention newbies and lurkers this is the bridge we all have to cross. ^

You cannot strip the love of a child, or the love of a mother or father away from someone. Love can’t be stomped out.

VERY TRUE. And I’d add that it’s detrimental / futile to even try.

You have the right to remove consent for yourself.

I’d say right to remove his participation from the relationship.

I agree get a divorce or learn to suck it up …..HOWEVER if he does choose to suck it up and work to find happiness this has absolutely bearing on future cheating or lying. I know of at least 4 past member ( frequent contributors ) here that had poly marriages or relationships and their spouse / SO still found cheating / living to be the better path. He can read all the books and do all the work and still get kicked in the nuts.

 

[Diverdude]

I read the article living in poly hell and I 100% agree with what is going on in that article. I brought it to her attention yesterday and we had a conversation about the article and what her thoughts on it were and she agreed with parts of it I don't exactly know. She repeatedly apologizes for lying to me but then won't turn around and talk to me about Roberts deceit dishonesty disrespect and lack of trust and willingness to do what is best for her and i's marriage. Last night I once again looked at the messages that they've been sending each other and he's been outright telling her that I'm being emotionally manipulative, I'm not taking responsibility for my side of the situation, and everything is my fault. He is telling her that she just needs to outright leave to protect herself. He lives 4 hours away and is not here in person to know what the two of us are going through and he is only telling her what she wants to hear, every time he says something like I'm the problem she doesn't turn around and tell him that he's wrong or fight for me. We woke up at 2:30 this morning and had a fight about this, she still doesn't understand that he is not someone who cant be emotionally available to take care of this situation the correct way and every time she makes an effort to turn away from him he always tries to climb back into her arms. She told me last night that she can't let go of him because he is the only person that she has an outlet to talk to you about this whole situation, she asked if we're having problems then who am I supposed to talk to and I told her that if we cannot figure out our problems as a couple and how am I supposed to trust anything that she does or says. I broke down to her in a fit of anxiety and anger when I knew that he was talking her in a way that made it seem like she had no fault in this situation and that she was just going along with that reality and believing it as the truth because one person says so and the one person is 5 years younger than us and has no experience with what we're going through. He always says that he has the best intentions and he wants her to be happy but he does not care what I want, he does not care where I sit in our relationship and he's only doing everything to benefit himself, as the living in poly hell article stated he is the new infatuation that she cannot let go because she is not putting focus on her primary relationship. He is the sole reason why we are having so many problems right now is because she cannot let go of his toxic personality and toxic Behavior because he is an outlet for her to speak. The therapist got a hold of us this morning and is trying to communicate with the two of us I'm trying to iron some things out before Wednesday before we have therapy and figure out what we need to talk about

 

[GalaGirl]

Glad the article helped some. I mean this kindly, ok?

I'm going to make some suggestions. You could think on it.

I think you could firm up your boundaries with wife. And agree to sort with therapist and stop talking so much at home at this time. It is not helping right now. You sound like you just end up triggering each other and it is not productive conversation.

If her choices make it so you decide to tell her in therapy "You know what? I don't want to be here like this. I want a trial separation" you CAN decide that.

If you decide to tell her in therapy that you want to try to repair the marriage? One of your conditions might be "For me to be willing, you have to dump your cheating affair dude Robert." And she will either agree or not. Because she CAN decide that.

If you decide to tell her in therapy that you want to work on the marriage AND try to figure out poly with Robert in the picture -- fine. That's also a choice you each can decide on.

But you each have to own your own part of the choices and stop getting distracted by side issues. Make healthy choices in good faith. Not make weird choices from fear of losing each other, from people pleasing, in bad faith, etc.

It sounds like she's owning her lying behavior at least. Could say "Thank you. I appreciate you owning that and apologizing. I need time to digest." You don't have to insta-forgive, but you could acknowledge she's trying to own some of it.

but then won't turn around and talk to me about Roberts deceit dishonesty disrespect and lack of trust

WHY is that her job? To talk to you about your feelings about Robert?

Wife is not responsible for Robert behavior. ROBERT does Robert behaviors.

I get that you want express your upset with Robert behaviors. But I think it is probably best to do that part with therapist in an individual appointment and not with your wife.

If she thinks Robert is great? And you think Robert stinks? Fussing at the other one about that is just circle conversation that does nothing but wear you both out.

​

To me? Going round and round on that doesn't sound like best use of your time right now. Just a big time waster.

It's easy to blame the outsider. Like Robert "possessed" your wife somehow and if you only got rid of him, "normal wife" would return.

But really? Wife is in charge of WIFE behavior. And if she's basically taking you for granted, neglecting you or the marriage, telling lies, done some cheating things? SHE did those things.

You might have to ask her in therapy if she's still in this marriage or not. Because maybe Robert was some kind of eye opening thing that made her realize she wants out of the marriage.

It may be uncomfortable for you to ask. But you kinda have to put cards plain on the table in therapy. Therapy is expensive. No point in beating around the bush wasting time there. Because then you don't have to go the long way around in therapy of "trying to make poly work" or "fixing the marriage" if the real deal is that she's done here. (Or maybe you are.)

I think both of you could be way more honest with each other instead of pussy footing around out of fear.

I'm not trying to be mean, ok? I get this is super hard. I just don't think more loop-de-loos will help any.

Last night I once again looked at the messages that they've been sending each other and he's been outright telling her that I'm being emotionally manipulative, I'm not taking responsibility for my side of the situation, and everything is my fault. He is telling her that she just needs to outright leave to protect herself.

So he does blahblah in her texts. How about you just decide "He's a blahblah talker. I don't need to read it like the daily play-by-play. I don't learn anything new. He's still a blahblah talker."

Then let it go. Do not look any more. Ask her to put a passcode on her phone so you can't even look if tempted.

You cannot eliminate all your stress right now. You CAN reduce some of it by deciding how and where you will spend your time and energy. Could ask yourself...

"Does peeking at her texts from Robert ADD to my stress right now or TAKE AWAY from my stress?"

I think peeking in her phone at his texts ADDS to your stress. It does not take away. So why bother doing this behavior? It's like you hitting your own self with the ugh stick.

I think you could state your concern ONCE in therapy.

"Wife, I think Robert is snowing you and telling you whatever you want to hear in the moment. I'm scared he's trying to rope you off. And I'm scared that you want to go because your heart isn't in this marriage any more. Is that true?"

People who want to be in their marriage, don't get roped off. People who want to go? Go.

If she asks you things like "If I go off with him and regret it and want to come back to you... will you still take me back?"

You could practice honesty and say "I don't know. I might. I might not. I cannot predict the future. I am uncertain. If you need an answer right now? No. Because I am not enthusiastic about any of this."

Because anything less than an "enthusiastic yes?" Is a "working no."

The feelings may be hard to FEEL. Like feeling scared.

But the actions can be simple. Like speaking your truth honestly. If even at a whisper.

We woke up at 2:30 this morning and had a fight about this...

She told me last night that she can't let go of him because he is the only person that she has an outlet to talk to you about this whole situation,

She can stay up all night if she wants. You don't have to. Let it be her problem. Enforce your personal boundary. Could say "I only talk about this in therapy. So... no, thanks. I need to sleep. I'm not talking right now."

She can call Robert and bother him at 2:30 AM. She could call the therapist. She could call a help line. She could get up and write in a journal. Go watch TV. Bake a cake. Do some laundry. She can deal with her own emotional management at 2:30 AM in ways that do not involve you or bothering your sleep.

she asked "if we're having problems then who am I supposed to talk to ?"

She could talk to therapist in individual counseling about the (you +wife) problems.

She could talk to you in couple therapy about the (you + wife) problems with the therapist there to mediate.

I told her that if we cannot figure out our problems as a couple and how am I supposed to trust anything that she does or says. I broke down to her in a fit of anxiety and anger when I knew that he was talking her in a way that made it seem like she had no fault in this situation and that she was just going along with that reality and believing it as the truth because one person says so and the one person is 5 years younger than us and has no experience with what we're going through.

If you go peeking in her phone to get the new Robert blahblahs and it ends up making you feel angry/anxious? You went cranking your own self up. You could own your own behaviors.

And then if you pour out your anxieties and anger out on her head? How's she supposed to trust you if you act out at her after cranking your own self up? Use your therapist for talking about all that. Not your wife.

A long time ago my DH told me he is NOT the clean up man. He's fine with poly, and I can date who I want. But if I pick out stupid people to date, and they hurt me? He'll do a limited "I'm sorry you hurt. Do you need a ride to a therapist appt?" but he's not gonna sit there tending to me forever or being like my free therapist. He didn't do anything. He wasn't dating them. He didn't pick out these people. I take up with stupid people and reap the natural consequences of my poor choices? Now HE has to be doing extra work? What kind of business is that?

It's my bag, my emotional management to deal with, my life lesson to learn. And I think that is totally fair. It would be the same the other way around.

Just because you are someone's spouse does not mean you have to put up with off-putting behaviors from them.

I think you could practice some emotional detachment. It doesn't mean you don't care about wife at all. It means... Robert stuff is NOT your responsibility. If she takes up with him she can deal with him.

The therapist got a hold of us this morning and is trying to communicate with the two of us I'm trying to iron some things out before Wednesday before we have therapy and figure out what we need to talk about.

I suggest maybe setting up some individual appointments first. Then set up some couple sessions after that. So therapist hears both sides from each spouse first.

If you could have solved it by yourselves you would have. So let the professional do their job.

In between therapy sessions? Live normal life, get rest. You can't be going round and round with wife about this stuff 24/7. It is not good for your own well being.

Restore some order to your universe.

You cannot hit the "fast forward" button and be done with this tomorrow. But you CAN stop letting this wackadoo run over all hours of the day and night.

• Eat on time.
• Go to work on time.
• Shower on time.
• Go to bed on time.
• Exercise on time.
• Do some fun stuff on time -- video games or movies or whatever you do to relax.
• Keep your therapy appointments on time and only do the talks about this THERE in therapy.

Stabilize things so even if THIS one area is kooky right now, SOME things in your life can be stable.

I hope your appointment(s) are helpful to you one way or the other.

Galagirl

 

[JaneQSmythe]

A long time ago my DH told me he is NOT the clean up man. He's fine with poly, and I can date who I want. But if I pick out stupid people to date, and they hurt me? He'll do a limited "I'm sorry you hurt. Do you need a ride to a therapist appt?" but he's not gonna sit there tending to me forever or being like my free therapist. He didn't do anything. He wasn't dating them. He didn't pick out these people. I take up with stupid people and reap the natural consequences of my poor choices? Now HE has to be doing extra work? What kind of business is that?

This.

During my relationship with Ex-Dude MrS would get agitated when Ex-Dude and I would argue - which, TBH, was a frequent occurance - we are both argumentative people, MrS is not. (My mother had the same issue when Dad and I would argue, we thought we were having a "discussion" and she thought we hated each other!) MrS would voice his fear that our arguments would lead to a break-up and he would be the one left with a "broken" crying wife to take care of. (We all lived together, so it wasn't like MrS could remain blissfully unaware...)

It is, in my opinion, very important to have a sounding board who is NOT the spouse - friend, counselor, therapist, whatever. It is NOT fair to have one partner have to referee the other relationship - they can only be responsible for the relationships that they are actually a part of!

 

[Diverdude]

With everything going on, She agreed that her relationship with him wasn't healthy. She has ended it (hopfully for good) this time. Blocked his # and blocked him from social media. We had our session with our therapist yesterday, she told him two days before therapy that she wanted out of the marriage but during therapy she didnt know where she was at at the moment but told me that she is willing to work on things. He recommended that we do individual therapy to help out with certain things. She did tell the therapist as well that she felt like all of the bridges have been burned but during our session also didnt know about repairing with everything going on. We are at a point where we have still be sleeping in the same bed still cuddling with eachother and hugging but the kissing and sex hasn't been there at the moment and I know that is a part of her feeling like she was in the wrong and healing from the realization that it was infidelity even though there is more than the typical infedelity. We have set her up with an Individual therapist and we will see where that goes. We both are doing our own personal healing and we are taking things day by day. This will be my last post.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm so sorry.

I am glad to hear though that you will both be getting individual therapy in addition to couple therapy and will take it day by day.

Galagirl

 

[Marcus]

Last night I once again looked at the messages that they've been sending each other and he's been outright telling her that I'm being emotionally manipulative, I'm not taking responsibility for my side of the situation, and everything is my fault. He is telling her that she just needs to outright leave to protect herself.

Your wife gives you permission to go through her texts? Or you are snooping again because you don't trust her?

He always says that he has the best intentions and he wants her to be happy but he does not care what I want

That would be because he isn't your wife, isn't a part of your household or your life, and he hasn't agreed to follow your rules.

Trust me man, you don't have a "Robert" problem, you have a "My wife doesn't want to be monogamous, and want my wife to be monogamous" problem. It's been clearly established, explicitly stated, and reinforced by repeated actions.

Is your plan to just keep going back and forth like this, hoping she eventually capitulates to your wishes? It's a bad bet, and I hope you adjust your expectations to line up with reality.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Diverdude,

It sounds to me like good news: She finally agreed to end it with Robert. Also you are started on therapy, and are going to get some individual therapy to help with various issues. It's not huge leaps and bounds, but it's a start. I am hopeful that eventually, you and your wife will be able to work things out.

I understand if you don't want to post any further, but if you do change your mind about that at some point, just know that you are always welcome here.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Diverdude]

Hello again,

Since my last post, there has been a world of events to unload and I'm looking to see if anyone can chime in to give me some similar examples of how and what I can do. This is also I think a good way to take things in the right direction to get this all off my chest and move forward.

I said last time that she had stopped talking to Robert. Well she lied to me about it again. He created a different instagram account so she could play it off like it was someone else and I knew it was him again because she went right back to the same habbits of shutting off while she was at home and her sole focus was all on him. I confronted her about it and she swore up and down that it wasnt him until i told her i saw what she was sending him and what he was sending her (nudes). This happened shortly after my last post in april. She told me that she was an adult and she wasnt going to stop talking to him so I told her that I was no longer going to be apart of her life if she couldn't seperate a fling from her marriage.

We briefly spoke with our therapists about what separation would look like and how to go about it. We got Into several fights about her treating me the way she did and it came to a point where we took our wedding rings off and I started sleeping on the couch down stairs.

Some time went by and we both were very frustrated and angry with what happened and she asked me to start sleeping in the bed again, which is more comfy than the couch by far, because she missed me being in bed. Well that turned into a mess in the end because it just made me feel more disconnected with her because I didnt feel like she truly wanted me there, she just wanted a sholder to cry on.

With everything going on, I wasnt getting anywhere with my new personal therapist because it was the same thing everyone was saying. She was at fault for the immediate actions of lying and the disrespect and if it didnt stop, divorce was the only possible solution. I reached out to our marriage counselor about everything going on privately and he relayed our conversations too and from my wife and I for several weeks. Which was a lot of the same as talking to my therapist but now I was able to get across the same subjects through a neutral party, and I finally had someone she would listen to, at least that was the hope.

Her birthday rolls around and she came to me telling me that she wanted to take a personal trip out of town to the hot springs. My immediate fear was she was running off to go see him. So we sat down and had a very long conversation about the details of the trip like where she was staying and how she was getting there due to us only having one vehicle which I needed to keep due to my work. We looked at hotel rooms which ended up being too expensive for her to afford, and we looked at her getting a rental vehicle so she would have some way to drive around and she said that she wanted to stay in that vehicle while she was gone. Come to find out she lied about where she was going to go because I got a notification saying that she bought a Greyhound ticket to the town that's not far from where he lives. I confronted her about it and she told me that it was easier to lie about it and face the consequences later then it would be to tell me the truth in the moment.

I reluctantly took her to the Greyhound station for her to take her trip and the one thing we talked about while she was gone is I wanted to know when she was leaving the hotel to go wherever for safety precautions. I didn't want an hour by hour update on what they were doing in every moment but I wanted to know when they were going from the hotel to lunch or from lunch to his house and we agreed on that and she added in the one night that they planned on going to eat dinner at his house she was going to tell me his address. Well the entire weekend she went completely against everything we agreed upon left me in the dark the whole time and while all this is going on I'm talking to our marriage counselor about what's happening and what I should do. He agreed that if she was going to be disrespectful lie and not follow our agreements then I shouldn't want her back home when she planned on being back home. Needless to say I had a terrible weekend with everything going on and the second to last day while she was gone she didn't talk to me almost the whole day and when I asked her when she was going to be back to the hotel I didn't get a response back for almost 6 hours and I called her over and over trying to figure out where she was at if she was safe if she was okay and I left her a message and a text both saying that if she didn't get a hold of me by a certain time I was going to call the police. When she finally got a hold of me shortly before that time frame she told me that I needed to calm the fuck down and stop trying to be so controlling. Which I know is just a bunch of the same shit that he was saying and she was going along with it. He popped off with what are the police going to do and I told her they would do a wellness check on her hotel room and they would start to track her phone if it became an issue. That didn't go over so well and she stopped talking to me for the rest of the weekend and didn't even let me know when she was on her way home or when I could pick her up from the bus station which then I had to track her Greyhound bus to figure that information out.

After she got to the bus station I told her that we needed to sit down and we needed to have a long talk to go over all the stuff that our marriage counselor and I talked about as well as what had happened over the weekend. I found out later on after she had gotten back that she allowed him to break every boundary that we had agreed upon when we open this up to our mutual friend. It didn't matter who was having sex, if it was her or me, there was a condom that was to be worn and she didn't have a problem with our mutual friend doing that and he's fixed. But she turned around and let Robert cum inside of her. I asked her what the fuck she was thinking and why she thought that was a good idea because neither of us want kids and I told her that if she ends up pregnant she is not going to be living in our house anymore because I'm not going to be responsible for her screw up. He told her that he took male birth control which does not exist right now I looked it up and it's in Trials but it's not out in the market and told her that everything would be ok. It was just more narcissistic controlling tendencies that Robert kept showing over and over. I found out that Robert was doing the same thing to his girlfriend of 3 years that my wife was doing to me but to a worse extent. He forced her to take a trip to go be with her family while him and my wife spent the weekend together. This is on top of lying to her and forcing her into polyamory because he was unhappy with their relationship and instead of ending it try to ruin somebody else's marriage because there was something that he wanted that he couldn't have. He even tried to persuade my wife to move in with him and his girlfriend when my wife was looking at finding a different place which meant that she was going to leave all of her friends, her work, and all of her hobbies that she has here outside of what her and I do together. She kept telling me that she wanted her autonomy and she wanted to be an individual outside of our relationship but was going to turn around and let this asshat basically control her entire life because she wasn't going to have anything if she moved over there. It took our marriage counselor and my parents telling her that she's giving up her life for somebody that she doesn't know. At first she didn't want to hear that he's a narcissist and was controlling her life and she was letting him run her around like a lost puppy and to this day I don't think she hardly believes that he is a narcissist but she's had many people tell her what he was doing is pure narcissism and he was only doing things for the betterment of himself and he wasn't going to care where I was in their relationship because I was competition for him. The moment that he told my wife that " I told him I'm going to follow his fucking boundaries for now " he is never going to have it ever again.

After a couple weeks of maintaining contact with our marriage counselor he finally got to a point where he was done being the neutral party and had a very Stern conversation with her about what she was doing, what she was causing, and where her life was going with me, she finally let her wall down and stop talking to Robert. She has blocked his phone number, facebook, and several other social media Outlets but she still hasn't blocked him on Instagram. I made sure that he could not interact with any of her posts even though he can see them and he cannot comment or message her through Instagram..... and I don't need a lecture on what I did. She needed somebody to force them to be separate because he was just going to try to drag her into the same situation. I know it's going to take her a while to fully remove him from her life but she needed somebody to start the process. She brought a box full of stones a shirt and a few other things home that he bought for her and it currently sits in a box in our living room and like our marriage counselor said there comes a time and a place that that box needs to be trashed or gotten rid of.