I'm gad the article helped some.
I mean this kindly, okay? I'm going to make some suggestions. I think you could firm up your boundaries with your wife. Agree to sort things out with the therapist and stop talking so much at home, at this time. It is not helping right now. You sound like you just end up triggering each other and it is not productive.
If her choices make it so you decide to tell her in therapy, "You know what? I don't want to be here like this. I want a trial separation," you CAN decide that.
If you decide to tell her in therapy that you want to try to repair the marriage, one of your conditions might be, "For me to be willing, you have to dump Robert." She can either agree or not. She CAN decide that.
If you decide to tell her in therapy that you want to work on the marriage, AND try to figure out poly with Robert in the picture, also fine. That's a choice you both can make.
But you each have to
own your own part of the choices and stop getting distracted by side issues. Make healthy choices in good faith. Don't make weird choices from fear of losing each other, trying to be people pleasers, in bad faith, etc.
It sounds like she's owning her lying behavior, at least. You could say, "Thank you. I appreciate you owning that and apologizing. I need time to digest it." You don't have to insta-forgive, but you could acknowledge she's trying to own some of it.
She won't talk to me about Robert's deceit, dishonesty, disrespect, and lack of trust.
WHY is that her job, to talk to you about your feelings about Robert? Your wife is not responsible for Robert's behavior. ROBERT does Robert's behavior.
I get that you want express your upset with Robert's behaviors. But I think it is probably best to do that with the therapist in an individual appointment, not with your wife.
If she thinks Robert is great, and you think Robert stinks, fussing at each other about it is just a circular conversation that does nothing but wear you both out. To me, going round and round on that doesn't sound like best use of your time right now, just a big time waster.
It's easy to blame the outsider, like Robert "possessed" your wife somehow, and if you only got rid of him, your "normal wife" would return. But really, Wife is in charge of WIFE's behavior. And if she's basically taking you for granted, neglecting you or the marriage, telling lies, doing some cheating things, SHE did those things.
You might have to ask her in therapy if she's still in this marriage, or not. Maybe Robert was some kind of eye-opening thing that made her realize she wanted out of the marriage. It may be uncomfortable for you to ask. about this. But you kinda have to put your cards on the table in therapy. Therapy is expensive. There's no point in beating around the bush, wasting time there. You don't have to go the long way round in therapy, "trying to make poly work, or fix the marriage," if the real deal is that she's done here (or maybe you are).
I think both of you could be way more honest with each other, instead of pussyfooting around out of fear.
I'm not trying to be mean, okay? I get this is super hard. I just don't think more loop-de-loops will help.
I once again looked at their messages. he's been outright telling her that I'm being emotionally manipulative; I'm not taking responsibility for my side of the situation; everything is my fault. He is telling her that she just needs to outright leave to protect herself.
So he goes blah-blah in her texts. How about you just decide this? "He's a blah-blah talker. I don't need to read it, the daily play-by-play. I'm not learning anything new. He's
still a blah-blah talker." Then let it go. Do not look any more. Ask her to put a passcode on her phone so you can't even look if tempted.
You cannot eliminate all your stress right now. You CAN reduce some of it by deciding how and where you will spend your time and energy. Ask yourself: "Does peeking at her texts from Robert ADD to my stress right now, or TAKE AWAY from my stress?"
I think peeking in her phone at his texts ADDS to your stress. It does not take it away. Why bother doing this behavior? It's like you're hitting yourself with the "ugh" stick.
I think you could state your concern ONCE in therapy.
"Wife, I think Robert is snowing you and telling you whatever you want to hear in the moment. I'm scared he's trying to rope you off. And I'm scared that you want to go because your heart isn't in this marriage any more. Is that true?"
People who want to be in their marriage don't get roped off. People who want to go will go.
If she asks you, "If I go off with him and regret it and want to come back to you, will you still take me back?" you could practice honesty and say "I don't know. I might. I might not. I cannot predict the future. I am uncertain. If you need an answer right now, it's no, because I am not enthusiastic about any of this."
Anything less than an "enthusiastic yes" is a "working no."
Emotions like fear may be hard to FEEL, but the actions can be simple. Speak your truth honestly, if even at a whisper.
She told me last night at 2 AM that she can't let go of him because he is the only person to talk to about this whole situation,
She can stay up all night if she wants. You don't have to. Let it be her problem. Enforce your personal boundary. Say, "I only talk about this in therapy. I need to sleep. I'm not talking right now."
She can call Robert and bother him at 2 AM; she can call the therapist; she can call a help line; she can get up and write in a journal, go watch TV; bake a cake; do some laundry; deal with her own emotional management at 2 AM in ways that do not involve you or interfere with your sleep.
She asked "if we're having problems then who am I supposed to talk to ?"
She can talk to the therapist in individual counseling about the (you +wife) problems.
She can talk to you in couple's therapy about the (you + wife) problems, with the therapist there to mediate.
I told her that if we cannot figure out our problems as a couple, how am I supposed to trust anything that she does or says? I broke down to her in a fit of anxiety and anger when I knew that he was talking her in a way that made it seem like she had no fault in this situation, that she was just going along with that reality, believing it as the truth because one person says so. He is 5 years younger than us and has no experience with what we're going through.
You peeked in her phone to get the new Robert blah-blahs, and it ended up making you feel angry/anxious. You cranked up your own ass.
You could own this behavior.
And then you poured out your anxieties and anger out on her head. How's she supposed to trust
you, if you act out at her after cranking yourself up?
Use your therapist for talking about all that, not your wife.
A long time ago, my husband told me he was not the clean-up man. He was fine with poly, and I could date whom I wanted. But if I picked out stupid people to date, and they hurt me, he'd do something limited, like saying, "I'm sorry you're hurt. Do you need a ride to a therapist appt?" but he was not gonna sit there tending to me forever, or be my free therapist. He didn't do anything. He wasn't dating them. He didn't pick them. If I take up with stupid people, and reap the natural consequences of my poor choices, does he have to do extra work? What kind of deal is that?
It's my bag, my emotional management to deal with, my life lesson to learn. I think that is totally fair. It would be the same the other way around.
Just because you are someone's spouse does not mean you have to put up with off-putting behaviors from them. I think you could practice some emotional detachment. It doesn't mean you don't care about Wife at all. It does mean the Robert stuff is NOT your responsibility. If she has taken up with him, she can deal with him.
The therapist is trying to communicate with the two of us. I'm trying to iron some things out before therapy on Wednesday, figure out what we need to talk about.
I suggest setting up individual appointments first, so the therapist can hear both sides, then setting up some couple sessions after that.
If you could have solved it by yourselves, you would have. Let the professional do their job.
In between therapy sessions, live normal lives, get rest. You can't be going round and round with Wife about this stuff 24/7. It is not good for your wellbeing.
Restore some order to your universe. You cannot hit the "fast forward" button and be done with this tomorrow. But you CAN stop letting this wackadoo run over all hours of the day and night.
- Eat on time.
- Go to work on time.
- Shower.
- Go to bed on time.
- Exercise.
- Do some fun stuff-- video games or movies, or whatever you do to relax.
- Keep your therapy appointments and only have the talks about this THERE.
Stabilize things so that even if THIS one area is kooky right now, SOME things in your life can be stable.
I hope your appointment(s) are helpful to you, in one way or another.