Newbie questions

Myscreenname said:
The last few commenters have given no advice. The actual advice I have been given I greatly appreciated.
I'm not sure why some continue to comment on my post just to tell me to listen to someone else.
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There is technically advice in reminding someone that someone else's posts to do have value, or more value than you might think. Since this is a community of people who are in all stages of their poly journey, their advice will likely be from that viewpoint. Equally, the members of this forum will and do like to make clear, as Vis said, 'this isn't a blow sunshine up your ass forum'. That is actually very helpful to know. How helpful is only receiving feedback that 'makes everything sound good'? You should want powerful, real, deep, and thoughtful feedback that helps you question and answer those questions about where you really stand in your journey, who you really are, what you really want, what you really need, and what your partners really want and need and are telling you.

I read your first few posts and "couple is primary" "veto Power" etc, can give a lot of poly people the hackles right out the gate, because many many poly people have been treated poorly as a secondary, vetoed, tossed away when it wasn't convenient for the 'primary', and that type of thing is considered very unethical in polyamory. Many have been hurt because of that.

All people you choose to get involved with are important, have feelings, have boundaries, have a voice.

So keep in mind that while you might not like or agree with all the advice given, each person is coming from their own experiences and perspective as well.

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How do I make my husband feel he is still important to me during our ..times, and how do I approach the relationship idea?
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You can't make your husband feel anything. Treat your husband like he's important to you, ask and meet his needs, and let him work on his own security on his own. He owns his emotions. He owns his communication.

If he saids "I need you to make me feel important" how is that helpful.
He should say "I need to have quality alone time with you. I need to have one-on-one sex. I need to go on dates. I need X" and you can reply with which of those needs you are comfortable with fulfilling.

And that's how you help him to feel important.

Poly is largely communication.

Have you read antyhing off the website or the book "More than Two"?

https://www.morethantwo.com/
 
I'm sorry you are struggling. Sounds like you tried swinging but want something more than that. And you plan to talk to both husband your potential BF person to try to get some things sorted out.

Others have given suggestions for other areas, so I'm only going to mention the 3 things that stick out to me.

Some of our boundaries are dating together. If one of us doesn't like someone, they will have veto power. Our marriage will be primary.
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BOUNDARIES

I think maybe you mean "agreements." You and husband have an agreement that you date together.

"Boundaries" are things you set up for YOU to obey to keep you safe. They are not for others to respect, uphold, or obey.

If I have a boundary of "I don't lend my things to people who mistreat them" and you borrow my lawn mower? And then break it or lose it and do not apologize and repair/replace it? Then you come looking later to borrow my vacuum? I am going to tell you "No. I am not willing to lend you that" because I have to obey my boundary. You don't have to obey it. *I* do. And in obeying it, I help keep myself safe/free from new shenanigans.

Ask your BF what his preferences are and what agreements he would like. Perhaps he needs agreements around safer sex practices like "condoms on." Maybe that is easier for him to understand than the word "boundaries."

VETO

You mentioned wanting to have a veto initially, but not later after the relationship is established.

Maybe you prefer a "messy people list" instead of veto? Like "date whoever you want, just not messies."

Most people have one even if not articulated. These are people that would make a big mess if dated. Like I don't want husband dating my boss, my mother, any kid's teacher. There are enough people in the world to date without going for the messies.

Some are temporary. Like a teacher -- once the kid is past that teacher, they are datable again. But I don't want the teacher taking it out on the kid if DH dates them and they have a fight. So no dating a current teacher.

Some are more permanent. Like my mother or my boss. Mom would just squick me out. And I don't change bosses yearly. If I like my job, I want to stay there for a long time. If DH dates my boss and they fight, I don't need boss taking it out on me or firing me and endangering my making a living.

I see where you want a Closed 3 people thing for a while... but when you talk you may find the others don't want that and you have to deal with Open. So maybe you guys want to talk about the messy people lists.

WHAT IS PRIMARY/PRIORITZED

When is the marriage primary rather than the health of the people? When does health of the people come first?

Marriage can be important, but I don't think it should be the MOST important thing at all times. There are circumstances where the health of the people has to take priority. Maybe you could talk to your guys to determine what those conditions might be for this particular grouping.

An extreme example? If you and I were married, and I beat you up every night... are you going to stay in the marriage because the marriage is primary priority? Or are you going to get out and seek help because the health of the people (you) is most important priority? I would hope you would get out.

Could talk to your guys about all that so everyone is on the same page about what is prioritized when.

Might also want to talk about the open relationship model you want to practice and how to deal with its limitations. Primary-secondary that you seems to want is a 1C in that article.

It's fine to start out primary-secondary. You aren't going to be giving this new potential BF your car keys and house keys and putting him in your will TODAY. But you could talk about what happens if/when the primary-secondary model gets outgrown. Is everyone willing to talk and change models to co-primary? Something else? Disband?

If your concern is helping your husband feel valued during group sex or outside of sex and avoiding poly hell... you could ask him what he needs rather than guess. Group sex takes practice. Even if you've had it before, it's not like every grouping is the same. People like different things, feel different things.

You cannot talk everything out in one go. But you can have a series of talks to get the main points covered, and then keep on talking over time as you all get to know each other. Perhaps these worksheets help you in the talking.

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

GL!
Galagirl
 
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Myscreenname said:
Mag, really? You felt the need to pick apart every other sentence with condescension...why?
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I didn't pick you apart with condescension. I took a half hour to read and reread your post, and try and understand your feelings around the new relationships you and your h are having with Coworker, and respond with my views. I like to write, I like to share my experiences in polyamory to help new people. I don't know what is "sad" about that.

I don't spend that much time on every post I respond to, but I was interested in your case, your confusion, your desires, your fantasies, your h's desires, and the experiment with three way sex.

Being intimate with coworker was my husband's idea. They both get something out of it as they've both expressed desire to do it again.
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Well, that's cool. I hope despite the initial extreme awkwardness, you all discuss it and find a way to make the sex feel balanced and enjoyable. I just don't see a need to make hubby "feel #1" when you are in the situation. It seems rather impossible.

I had a great MFM last year... I was polite and tried my best to make sure both men were getting pleasure and satisfaction. The men, both experienced in group sex, also both looked out for each other (by words and actions), as well as pleasuring me.

I have had FMF sex more, and many of the experiences were not good because the guys involved (2 different men at different times) were not good at balancing out the attention he was giving me and the other woman.

You seem to understand the euphemisms so there's no reason to stop.
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Actually, I didn't understand it at first, it was during my response (which I edited a few times), that I finally figured out that, so it seems, to you, polyamory means group sex. I wanted to clarify that most poly people do not do threeway or fourway sex as a matter of course in their relationships. It happens sometimes, I've done it a bit, Angelina does it regularly, but it's more the exception than the rule.

I'm taking the earlier (helpful) advice I was given previously, to sit down with both of them and iron out all the details.

Maybe the chick is mythological. As I said, I want to be more comfortable with them before looking for another.
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But the men seem to feel differently. How will you get them to agree to do it your way, to put off unicorn hunting for a while?

Ironic how some people like to attack a member of a forum that is attacked enough from non-members.
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We have rules on this board about personal attacks. I've been here several years, so I am used to working within these parameters. If you feel I've actually attacked you, you can scroll by, or tag the thread so a mod will see it.

Other experienced members, obviously, didn't see my post as "attacking," so I wish you'd take it in the spirit I meant it, as trying to help. :)

https://www.morethantwo.com/coupleprivilege.html

Fallen, we want our relationships to include each other. Most have expectations that differ from reality, we're still working on what works for us.

The coworker may be too immature as you said, which is hard to hear. Something to think about, and see how he reacts when we all talk.
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Gala, you're right, agreement is the better word to use. I'll talk to him about his preferences. A messy list will eventually be made, but isn't needed yet. Veto power as in if I don't like the chick, or if one of them doesn't like the chick, the chick doesn't come back. I don't want to jerk anyone around, I don't think the guys do either.
The 1c model kind of fits. The other guy pretty much lives with us, our lives are interconnected. Our youngest's birthday just passed. We talked about renting a boat and inviting a bunch of people out. We also talked about just the six of us. Coworker said lets just have the family on the boat. More than once he referenced all of us as a family. We consider him part of our family too. Even if the intimacy was taken out of the equation, I would still want him around. He isn't something we use at will.
In trying to guard against the jealousy and resentment, we're doing things together. I don't want him dating or banging without me. I have no desire to date or bang anyone (including coworker) without him. Hubby likes to see me me bang other people, girls and guys. Like in your link, I think he has reservations about his place value. Coworker comes back tonight. So we'll have a talk tonight or tomorrow.
Thank you for explaining things.
 
vinsanity0 said:
Why? Because she knows what she is talking about. She is not attacking you. This isn't one of those blow sunshine up your ass forums. You are going to hear things you don't want to hear.
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Both Mag and Vin are correct and this is how this forum works.
Which is what we NEED.
We don't need bull.

At the end of the day you will take away what you want from this thread and make your choices and thats OK.

If you are sincerely looking for advice here, you will find it.
Everyone posting here so far as only excellent intentions and wishes you happiness.

That's what I get from this forum and I'm better off for it 100%.

Alos, sometimes the "harsher" stuff take a day or two to sink in and make sense. It's hard to look in the mirror sometime. I encourage you to re-read the whole thread then you can think on it. That's helped me anyways.
 
Mag, as expressed in this forum by another senior member, polyamory doesn't have a universal definition. To imply that one is doing it wrong or "not the way most others do it", is silly.
I wasn't referring to you as sad. I said you were finger wagging and unhelpful. I've seen your comments to other members, where you were actually helpful. That's not the case here, perhaps my post struck a chord.
It doesn't matter whether it did or didn't. I don't see how either of us can benefit from further communication.
 
Do you have sex with JUST your husband, sometimes? Or is it ALWAYS with your coworker as well?

If you and your husband are having sex just between the two of you, but you don't have sex with your coworker without your husband being present (I don't know if the men are sexually involved or not), that is an example of couple's privilege.

As long as your coworker is fine with this arrangement, then that's what works for you. We see many people on this board who grow tired of the group sex, but can't have one-on-one sex with their partner because it's either have sex in the group setting, or no sex at all.

It just might be worth really asking your coworker what HE wants as well.
 
Pow, not the issue I'm having. Thanks for trying to help.

Bat, I'm still not sure where I conveyed the need for handholding and sunshine blown up my nethers. I have received very good advice, just not from everyone.
 
Myscreenname said:
Pow, not the issue I'm having. Thanks for trying to help.

Bat, I'm still not sure where I conveyed the need for handholding and sunshine blown up my nethers. I have received very good advice, just not from everyone.
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Good! I'm glad you're finding what you need and hope you find more :D
 
Update: we talked last night. We went over boundaries, coworker does have some after thinking about things. We (the three of us) are going to have a closed relationship for now. Hopefully find another chick at some point in our travels.

Thank you again to the people that helped (not just commented).
 
Glad to hear things are working out. I hope I can be of help if needed.
 
Myscreenname said:
I was a gf to a married couple a few years ago. They didn't go out without me, and even when I hung out separately with one of them, nothing happened until the other one got there. Ideally, I want to recreate that.
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It seems you have a positive experience with a scenario most people here deem unfair at least.
Would you be willing to expand a little? Were you happy with what you had? How long was the relationship, and why did it end?

I'm really curious because you seem to go against the odds here.
 
Tin, that relationship was almost a decade ago. I didn't see things as unfair at the time/still don't. They banged each other without me, but no one else. I slept in their bed with them, when I was there. We went on dates as a threesome. I don't know what else you'd like me to expand on. But I'll answer questions. I was happy. The relationship was almost a year. It ended because they lived far from me. I would drive an hour and a half every time to go see them. I would see them because they had a house on a lake, and their friends were usually having a party on the weekends(we would all go to). Their friends knew of their lifestyle I didn't know it was a "thing". I lived in a tiny apartment at the time.
What do you mean by "going against the odds"?
 
Myscreenname said:
What do you mean by "going against the odds"?
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Thanks for the answer. We usually only hear stories about how these kinds of arrangements go wrong. Most commonly perhaps the "third" only falls in love with one member of the couple, which then causes broken hearts, betrayed feelings and generally a lot of stress and upset. Alternatively, people who were initially ok to be the "third" start to feel disrespected, being put down or just plain envious for not being full partner - an internal conflict, and really, slow torture to the secondary. From the other side of the equation, we hear from couples searching unsuccessfully (in which case we advise them to review what they are offering).
 
Tin, I think people air grievances in forums more than post about how happy they are. People search out forums because they have questions on how to work something out. That's how I found this site.
I wouldn't randomly join a forum just to post how good things are going.
KWIM?
 
Please don't abbreviate my nickname. It's not that terribly long, it has meaning and I'm not made of tin.

Yes I know what you mean, but disagree that it's the only effect here. We have a number of happy long term polyamorous members here, none of them (as far as I know) in this kind of arrangement.
But maybe people in hierarchical open relationships don't stick here, and that's why I asked.
 
I meant to say most people. There are a lot of people in this kind of arrangement. It's a big world. Maybe people with this kind of arrangement don't stick around this forum, because they kept getting told they were doing things wrong.
 
Nah!

Myscreenname said:
I meant to say most people. There are a lot of people in this kind of arrangement. It's a big world. Maybe people with this kind of arrangement don't stick around this forum, because they kept getting told they were doing things wrong.
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It's a process... That has been explained by others!
They have shared with you plenty great experience... How you're taking it only shows where you are in the process.
Enjoy the Forum!
 
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