Not on same page about bisexual wife exploring polyamory

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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Re (from straighthusbandbiwife):
"For those who were in monogamous marriages that transitioned into polyamory, I'm trying to understand a) how the marital relationship is still special and b) why is it better to be married than not?"

I don't think my two companions would want to stop being married. Including me doesn't make their marriage mean any less to them, they still celebrate their wedding anniversaries, and present themselves to the world as a married couple. Of course, the three of us are "in the closet" about the fact that we are polyamorous together. That's certainly part of why they're still married, but I don't think that's all of it.
 

YouAreHere

Well-known member
I'm big into creative imagination and ideation. I love brainstorming. "Wonda" has many gifts, but this is not one of them. She's extremely analytical, which makes he tremendous in her career, but if you give her a piece of paper and a pen and ask her to brainstorm a list of ideas that paper is going to be blank 10 minutes later. This is a big part of why she just wants to jump in. She doesn't know what to expect and she can't imagine how things might go without sample data, so she just wants to have fun and try.

To pop in again, I also wonder if Wonda's inability to plan and brainstorm is an avoidance technique. Does she not use these skills in her job? I'm a SW engineer/manager, so I can't NOT use those skills at work, but even if she's more of a researcher, she still needs to be working toward some sort of hypothesis, even if the outcome is data-driven. I wonder if the emotional stake within the relationship is what's holding her back from doing so in this context.

Again, this sounds like an individual counseling thing. Is she afraid to go there with you in a theoretical fashion because she's afraid of emotional/relationship fallout? Does she have difficulty with conversations regarding her emotions in general? For me, it took a lot of self-introspection to be able to handle my emotions when they were bubbling up all over the place. I called it my "Pon Farr" moment because I had NO idea what to do with them, other than wish they could be stuffed back down "where they belonged." I also word-vomited a lot all over this board. :)
 

Magdlyn

Well-known member
I just came across this interesting (and kinda funny) YouTube, "Why We Hate Bi Women." I thought it might add to the discussuion. :)

 

FallenAngelina

Well-known member
Re: the vid above and monogamy assuring proper family bloodlines:

One glance at Ronan Farrow confirms that this ruse is a universal disappointment. He's an obvious mix of Sinatra-Farrow genetic material, not one drop of Woody Allen in there. Ya, monogamy as a means of assuring fidelity is total nonsense. It's got an extraordinarily high failure rate.
 
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Magdlyn

Well-known member
Re: the vid above and monogamy assuring proper family bloodlines:

One glance at Ronan Farrow confirms that this ruse is a universal disappointment. He's an obvious mix of Sinatra-Farrow genetic material, not one drop of Woody Allen in there. Ya, monogamy as a means of assuring fidelity is total nonsense. It's got an extraordinarily high rate of failure.
Haha, I was just talking about Ronan (Sinatra) Farrow with friends last week! My theory is that Woody didn't care who got Mia pregnant again. They'd been trying for several years and nothing was happening. He wasn't much of a dad (understatement of the century).

But before DNA testing, in order to assure paternity, strict control of women's sexuality was all we had. FF sex was ignored, pretty much (in the Bible we see no mention of it), as it couldn't cause pregnancy. In earlier times, pre-patriarchy, of course, no one cared who the bio dad was, as goods were held and used communally, and children belonged to the tribe or goddess, and were raised by more than 2 bio parents. Historians say people didn't understand the male role in conception, but I wonder... people certainly saw animals go into heat/rut and babies show up a short time later, every year.

Ugh, I could go on and on with this pet topic of mine... :p
 

Frankie

Member
I've just been reading and not commenting because most of what I have to say isn't something the OP would want to hear.

However, if Wonda did have a life of overbearing influencers while growing up and formed some deep (even hidden) trauma from that. Then it makes perfect sense why she has been changing so much over the last 5 years. She has finally found a point in life where she is able to finally learn about herself and decide who she is. She is becoming her own person. Keeping in mind, that all the personality things the OP points out about her - to me - seem like it could stem from who she was and what kind of life she had before getting married. It's easier to answer yes or no questions when you've lived so long without being able to really express yourself or have a voice/opinion, as one example (~ letting the other person lead the conversation is a protective measure). And the kid in a candy store mentality of just jumping into things, happens when you get out of an overly controlling situation. BUT it sounds like she feels safe in this relationship to be open, and share how she is changing and what she is finding out about herself. It sounds like she is trying to share and express what she is finding out; and is hoping the love that her and the OP share is strong enough to allow for her to change and still have a husband.

Alas, Poly isn't for everyone. However, the relationship is already changing, there is no going back to how it was at the beginning. There is a lot of work ahead to find a new normal.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
Frankie said:
BUT it sounds like she feels safe in this relationship to be open, and share how she is changing and what she is finding out about herself. It sounds like she is trying to share and express what she is finding out; and is hoping the love that her and the OP share is strong enough to allow for her to change and still have a husband.

Yes. I get that vibe too. That Wonda hopes things can change for her and her husband will still consent to be here.

And at the same time...

straighthusbandbiwife said:
Fourth, I'm going to be honest with you guys that you don't seem to have a lot of sympathy/empathy for the person who's not leading but is supporting. For five long years, I've felt like I'm on the receiving end--just having to passively wait while she slowly... dare I say "leisurely"?... goes on her journey of self-discovery and figures out her wants, needs, beliefs, values, etc. And ya know what? I've been patient as hell, but feeling like I'm in limbo is my kryptonite. Now, with all the additional responsibilities that comes with being not only a dad but a stay-at-home dad, I need clear expectations, direct answers, and final decisions that I can hang my hat on for at least 5-10 years. No more subtle massaging and vague answers

OP has their own feelings. It's ok to not want poly. It's natural to be worried about the changes Wonda is experiencing and what that all might mean for them. It's ok to be running out of patience after waiting for 5 years and trying so hard... and still no firm answers from Wonda.

I'm sympathetic toward both of them. It's not an easy place for either to hold.

I don't think there is much else internet strangers can offer. At this point?

I think they both have to lay cards on the table PLAIN with the help of the therapists. However scary it might feel? They could practice radical honesty and be super up front with each other.

What do they each want from marriage and what they want for the next 5-10 years of their lives?

And then see which parts line up or not.

Galagirl
 
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Marcus

Well-known member
I think they both have to lay cards on the table PLAIN with the help of the therapists. However scary it might feel? They could practice radical honesty and be super up front with each other.

What do they each want from marriage and what they want for the next 5-10 years of their lives?

And then see which parts line up or not.

I agree that this is the only reasonable thing to do; each party lists out what they want and how they see a healthy relationship playing out, assessing where the overlap is, and living in the overlap. In my world this is the only way to even risk having a healthy association.

However, there is a pretty epic problems with applying this solution to this situation in particular:

  • The OP has clearly described that he will not entertain the idea of polyamory. All of his research is just ammunition gathering so that he can use the correct jargon while stating this reality. He went on a long anti-polyamory rant to remove all doubt.
  • The wife has clearly described that she wants a OPP polyamory situation where she gets to have a romantic relationship with a woman (or multiple women). That's what she wants, and she's said that's what she wants.

They are both perfectly clear on what they want, they are both resolute in what they want, and their wants are perfectly incompatible. However, they choose to put "the marriage" on a pedestal without consideration for the actual humans in the marriage. The only thing they both seem to agree on is that the plan is to keep jamming he square peg into the round hole until both have taken so much damage as to be unrecognizable.

It isn't a good plan, but it's the one they are both excited to employ.
 

Marcus

Well-known member
Which is why I think there is no more internet people can offer at this point in time.

For sure.

Honestly I don't know what needs to be added to the statement "I will not be part of a polyamorous relationship, and that's final". Both of their positions have been made abundantly clear, ad nauseam.
 

FallenAngelina

Well-known member
Which is what the OP said repeatedly in his opening post:

I feel like I've already pushed myself to the maximum I'm willing and able to go. ....I really have no desire whatever to rebuild my whole life about this lifestyle. I'm not judging how anyone else lives, but for me non-monogamy is something to secretly do from time and time and not a way of life.
....This just is not what I want. It's not how I'm wired.....Still, this is just not what I want..... I only feel comfortable with the ethics of swinging.

I'm still not sure what he was looking for. ?
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
Marcus said:
Honestly I don't know what needs to be added to the statement "I will not be part of a polyamorous relationship, and that's final". Both of their positions have been made abundantly clear, ad nauseam.

I will agree it's become a "circle conversation" in the thread. OP just doesn't want to hear some things right now. So was repeating himself thinking we don't hear him. We do hear him.

I will respectfully disagree with the part in bold though.

Wonda hasn't actually been posting. Nobody but her knows what her position is today and if it has changed from her position in the past. Not even OP. It's part of OP's frustration that she won't just say what it is.

OP started on post #1 with

straighthusbandandbiwife said:
My wife and I have been happily married for five years.

It took OP until post #144 to be able to say this "out loud" in a clear, concise way.

straighthusbandandbiwife said:
Fourth, I'm going to be honest with you guys that you don't seem to have a lot of sympathy/empathy for the person who's not leading but is supporting. For five long years, I've felt like I'm on the receiving end--just having to passively wait while she slowly... dare I say "leisurely"?... goes on her journey of self-discovery and figures out her wants, needs, beliefs, values, etc. And ya know what? I've been patient as hell, but feeling like I'm in limbo is my kryptonite. Now, with all the additional responsibilities that comes with being not only a dad but a stay-at-home dad, I need clear expectations, direct answers, and final decisions that I can hang my hat on for at least 5-10 years. No more subtle massaging and vague answers.

That in fact, OP has NOT been happy the last 5 years of this. And he really needs Wonda to just state where she stands.

So Marcus, when you say it's been super clear? I wonder if OP has actually told Wonda all the stuff from #144 in person as clearly as he wrote it there. I could be wrong, but I suspect OP has not. I suspect both have been waffling about some.

This is still unfolding for them. The lesson of "love is not always enough" can be a hard one to digest for people.

For this couple in particular? Where this ultimately lands is on them. It's their business.

We can do no more. There really isn't anything more we can add or help with. All anyone here can do is hold space, wish them well, and let them figure it out.

And if OP quit reading and writing, we probably won't ever know where it lands in the end either.

FallenAngelina said:
I'm still not sure what he was looking for. ?

In my mind? And I could be wrong because I am guessing here...

I think ultimately OP was looking a safe enough non-Reddit space express some sadness and frustration. He got that part. Some of the things were hard to hear maybe, but I didn't see where anyone was being mean to him here.

And maybe on some level wanting help dealing in anticipatory grief that he was experiencing... but a grief he's not ready to name, admit, or own. So hard to help him with that part of it.

My guess?
  • Wonda is too scared to speak her truth "out loud" to straighthubandandbiwife because she's scared OP will go "Ok. Well, I can't do that. We have to break up if you want that."
  • And OP is too scared to speak his truth "out loud" to Wonda because he's scared Wonda will go "Ok. Well, I can't do that. We have to break up if you want that."
  • Neither one wants to break up.
  • But neither is ready to accept that what each one wants is incompatible. They cannot get to acceptance, if nobody is even willing to list the wants "out loud" to begin with.
So just going around in circles with it.

Sometimes it just takes a while of doing that circle thing before one spouse or the other is ready to be done banging head on wall and plump for cards on the table PLAIN.

Not the "do poly or not" wall. But the other walls.

The wall of "How much circling around can I take before I just get fed up with that? And become more willing to put my cards on table plain?"

The wall of "How long can we keep on this way before we admit we are damaging ourselves/each other?"

Galagirl
 
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FallenAngelina

Well-known member
When it comes to her bisexuality, it's like she just wants to pursue this as though she's not married because, while she makes emphatically clear that she doesn't regret marrying me she does regret getting married so young before exploring this stuff herself.... I think she's just having trouble giving up the life that could've been, ya know?
My Peanut Gallery conclusion is what Mags asked about earlier in the discussion: His wife prefers women, but given all of the strict religious stuff here, Wonda finds herself being married at a young age to a man. He keeps waiting for her to get over it or get on board with his offer to swing as long as the sex goes down where he can see it and nobody develops dangerous feelings that would threaten the marriage. Wonda just doesn't seem to have the heart (or perhaps even the self possession) to tell him the full truth. I don't really get a poly vibe here so much as I see a lesbian who has only ever known heterosexual marriage as the appropriate family path in life. As we see so often here, this seems like a couple struggling against the painful reality of separation and latching onto polyamory as a soft transition out of a marriage that neither is ready to let go of yet.
 
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I am respectfully requesting the assistance of a moderator: @Evie, @kdt26417, @Petunia, @icesong

I was brand new and trying to get away from the Reddit trolls. I simply did not know either that a) everything written here in the forum was directly accessible to the public nor that b) I couldn't delete old comments/posts after the fact. There were a great many personal details I shared that I now deeply regret, which would be recognizable to people who know my story. This could get me outed and utterly destroy my life. I would not have shared so freely had I known this. It is my intention to remain an occasional contributor on this forum, but I will be much more mindful about privacy concerns; that is, less open about the specific circumstances of my life and situation.

Given the extreme sensitivity of these issues, I am asking--no, begging!--that this thread please be removed to protect me, "Wonda", and our family.
 
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YouAreHere

Well-known member
My Peanut Gallery conclusion is what Mags asked about earlier in the discussion: His wife prefers women, but given all of the strict religious stuff here, Wonda finds herself being married at a young age to a man. He keeps waiting for her to get over it or get on board with his offer to swing as long as the sex goes down where he can see it and nobody develops dangerous feelings that would threaten the marriage. Wonda just doesn't seem to have the heart (or perhaps even the self possession) to tell him the full truth. I don't really get a poly vibe here so much as I see a lesbian who has only ever known heterosexual marriage as the appropriate family path in life. As we see so often here, this seems like a couple struggling against the painful reality of separation and latching onto polyamory as a soft transition out of a marriage that neither is ready to let go of yet.
I wouldn't go so far as to assume she's lesbian, especially with Bi Erasure being a thing. She *can* be bi and have the same type of FOMO.
 

PinkPig

Active member
I wouldn't go so far as to assume she's lesbian, especially with Bi Erasure being a thing. She *can* be bi and have the same type of FOMO.
Agree with this. If I were the OP though, I would want to delve into what keeps attracting me to women who are attracted to women. I am a firm believer that we don't end up in relationships on accident. The fact that his first marriage was basically sexless because his ex wife preferred women sexually, and his second marriage marriage is in crisis because his second wife wants a romantic and sexual relationship with a woman, is not a coincidence, imo.
 
Agree with this. If I were the OP though, I would want to delve into what keeps attracting me to women who are attracted to women. I am a firm believer that we don't end up in relationships on accident. The fact that his first marriage was basically sexless because his ex wife preferred women sexually, and his second marriage marriage is in crisis because his second wife wants a romantic and sexual relationship with a woman, is not a coincidence, imo.
Can we please stop discussing these things? This information is now available publicly without my consent.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
I reported it and hopefully a moderator will be along soon to remove the thread, SHBW.

Hang in there. Hopefully one of them will log on soon.

Galagirl
 

Inaniel

Active member
There have been many insightful and respectful perspectives shared on this thread. While I agree that people should be able to delete or edit there own content I don’t think OP should be able to decide to erase everyone else’s...

Maybe the mods can allow OP to go back and edit his own posts without deleting the entire thread...
 
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