Opening up with a reluctant partner

[Magdlyn]

One thing that hasn't been focused on much is that your husband might be monogamous.

You seem to believe you are polyamorous (although that hasn't really been tested yet, either). You feel you love your husband of many years, but you are attracted to another woman. This is infatuation, a crush, an initial attraction. True love needs to be tested over time, a year or two of ups and downs. She currently lives far away, so you won't have a normal dating relationship like you would if she were local. Your NRE will probably last longer, since she will not become "real" to you as soon as she would if she lived locally.

There is a lot to experience in your poly journey other than, "This woman seems great! Hubba hubba! I want to have my first time FF sexual experience with her!" and the guilt around your hubs feeling left out, and your hope he finds someone too, so he can "get something out of it" asap.

I assume your dating prospect is single, but maybe she's married. Is she poly too? Is she bi or a lesbian? Has she experienced dating more than one person at a time? How did that go?

These are all things you'll have to take into consideration other than, "Let's have a hot weekend, just the two of us, and bang each other's brains out."

Meanwhile, will hubs be left home with the kid, lonely, envious, jealous, bored, etc.? Maybe he should get a sitter so he can have some fun out on his own, with friends? That will serve to distract him. He definitely needs some kind of plan for self care while you're away.

Perhaps he will not meet a woman to even go on a first date with for quite some time. He probably isn't used to dating at all, since you've been together for eight years. If he does go on a first date, most first dates don't lead to more. If he does get a second, third, fourth date, and gets a crush, he might experience overwhelming NRE (new relationship energy), which has its own problems.

He might even find he's mono, and fall out of love with you during his NRE, or after truly falling in love.

Besides reading about NRE and bisexuality around this board, I highly recommend you both read the book Opening Up, by Taormino. There you'll get a whole bunch of info about poly in one place, broken down into chapters, based on interviews with hundreds of poly people. (Warning, it's from 2008, so there are minor racist/sexist problems in it, common to the time.)

(That documentary about a woman with dozens of lovers sounds very "out there." No one has dozens of lovers, haha. Who has the time?)

 

[Alita]

Thanks for your reply!

One thing that hasn't been focused on much is that your husband might be monogamous.

He raised this concern himself in the very beginning: "What if I'm just monogamous, and you're polyamorous?" And that scares me, because it very well may be the case. And what then? Does that mean the relationship is doomed or that someone will always feel like they're giving up way too much to be together? He's made it clear that he doesn't want to be in a mono-poly relationship. We're doing polyamory or monogamy-- and for now we're trying polyamory to see if it can work for both of us. It feels soooo risky, but absolutely necessary to at least try.

You seem to believe you are polyamorous (although that hasn't really been tested yet, either). You feel you love your husband of many years, but you are attracted to another woman. This is infatuation, a crush, an initial attraction. True love needs to be tested over time, a year or two of ups and downs. She currently lives far away, so you won't have a normal dating relationship like you would if she were local. Your NRE will probably last longer, since she will not become "real" to you as soon as she would if she lived locally.

I haven't thought of myself as polyamorous before, but after reading about it and hearing people's stories of discovering their polyamory as an orientation, I'm beginning to think I am. I've been very happy dating multiple people in the past when I was single and had no problem with them seeing others (although we never talked about it). And I think I've always longed to have multiple romantic relationships. I just never thought of it as an option in this relationship, and have been very happy being monogamous with this one man-- apart from the growing grief of never experiencing my bisexuality and realising that the reasons why aren't logical to me.

But you're right. I definitely need to have more experience to figure things out. Can't think our way out of this one.

I assume your dating prospect is single, but maybe she's married. Is she poly too? Is she bi or a lesbian? Has she experienced dating more than one person at a time? How did that go?

She's married, bi and has had no experience with either polyamory or women.

He might even find he's mono, and fall out of love with you during his NRE, or after truly falling in love.

Fuuck, does this happen? This scares me. I feel absolutely certain I wouldn't fall out of love with him, even when in love with someone else, but I guess that's the difference between mono and poly. And then the question is: is it worth the risk?

But even if I were able and willing to shut all this back down, I kind of don't want him to be with me just because he chose me once and signed the papers. I truly want him to be happy and fulfilled and to experience the fulness of life, including all it has to offer in terms of sex and romance. I want him to have all those things and still choose me. And if he finds happiness elsewhere and doesn't want to be with me after all, at least I'll know he made an active choice and wasn't just passively staying in the relationship, like so many seem to do.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll make sure to read that.

And yes, that documentary was probably not the most representative. They were students. That explains having the time to have dozens of lovers.

 

[Magdlyn]

Thanks for your reply!


He raised this concern himself in the very beginning: "What if I'm just monogamous, and you're polyamorous?" And that scares me, because it very well may be the case. And what then? Does that mean the relationship is doomed, or that someone will always feel like they're giving up way too much to be together? He's made it clear that he doesn't want to be in a mono-poly relationship. We're doing polyamory or monogamy-- and for now we're trying polyamory to see if it can work for both of us. It feels soooo risky, but absolutely necessary to at least try.

He may have asserted he won't do poly/mono, but this could certainly work out to be best, as things go on. In fact, sometimes even when both partners truly feel poly, years can go by where one partner has another partner or two, while the other member of the original couple does not have another partner, or at least a lasting one.

My current partner Pixi and I experienced this in our early years. For a while, I would have up to two bfs at a time, and she wouldn't have one. Then, she would have this or that bf for a few months, while I had a steady bf for 2 years. Finally she found a long-term male partner, while I kept dating, finding bfs/gfs, and losing or leaving them (for various reasons). Finally, I took a 3-year break from even trying to meet anyone, and she was with her bf (and me) that whole time. 2 years ago, I found a great bf, while she still has her bf, and we all seem to be pretty stable. This took 14 years of finding and losing other partners and making things work with our current guys.

I haven't thought of myself as polyamorous before, but after reading about it and hearing people's stories of discovering their polyamory as an orientation, I'm beginning to think I am. I've been very happy dating multiple people in the past when I was single and had no problem with them seeing others (although we never talked about it).

Likewise, I had a period in college where one summer I was dating three guys, and managing it pretty well. Then I settled down with yet another guy, and we were married in our 20s and stayed together for 30 years total, until we'd grown apart and moved on. I've been practicing polyamory ever since then (2008). I did try poly with my ex husband quite a few years before we separated, but it didn't work out.

And I think I've always longed to have multiple romantic relationships. I just never thought of it as an option in this relationship, and have been very happy being monogamous with this one man-- apart from the growing grief of never experiencing my bisexuality and realising that the reasons why aren't logical to me.

But you're right. I definitely need to have more experience to figure things out. Can't think our way out of this one.


She's married, bi and has had no experience with either polyamory or women.

So she will have many of the same hoops to jump through with her husband as you do... I'd recommend she and her husband read Opening Up too.

Fuuck, does this happen?

Yes. When my husband and I first opened our marriage, it was ostensibly for me to explore my bisexuality. Unfortunately, we were stupid and tried to be unicorn hunters, looking to share one woman. (This was 1999, and there was only one book out on polyamory back then, The Ethical Slut [which wasn't very good], and of course, no online info.)

What happened was, the woman we found (a mutual acquaintance/casual friend who, at that time, lived in Canada, 300 miles away) said she was interested in both of us, but that idea never went beyond her words. She in fact, mistrusted women, was not attracted to them, and was only into my husband. They had a weekend together, with sex and romance. He fell in love with her and vice versa, he fell out of love with me, and our marriage was shaken to the core. We struggled on for 8 more years, with counseling, but it was hopeless. Our relationship had run its course. We both needed something different. Very soon after we separated, his friend (I had vetoed their sex, but their feelings didn't change) moved from Canada to our state and moved in with him.

(I don't recommend vetoes. That was another stupid mistake. It just led to more problems.)

This scares me. I feel absolutely certain I wouldn't fall out of love with him, even when in love with someone else, but I guess that's the difference between mono and poly. And then the question is: is it worth the risk?

For us, it definitely was worth the risk. I had outgrown my college boyfriend/husband. I had become confident I was pansexual, non-binary and truly polyamorous. Our children were grown. My ex-h was still straight and mono. So was his gf. I found my current gf just 3 months after I separated from my husband! I lived on in the marital house for 6 months, then got an apartment on my own. After 2 years there, I got a house with my gf.

But even if I were able and willing to shut all this back down, I kind of don't want him to be with me just because he chose me once and signed the papers. I truly want him to be happy and fulfilled and to experience the fulness of life, including all it has to offer in terms of sex and romance. I want him to have all those things and still choose me. And if he finds happiness elsewhere and doesn't want to be with me after all, at least I'll know he made an active choice and wasn't just passively staying in the relationship, like so many seem to do.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll make sure to read that.

I hope your husband will read it too.

And yes, that documentary was probably not the most representative. They were students. That explains having the time to have dozens of lovers.

Huh, didn't she have schoolwork? I didn't have time for dozens of sex partners in college lol. Honestly, how often could she see them? One per day each month? 3 guys in one day? Gangbangs? I am sorry watching it together was upsetting. It has nothing to do with poly reality. I am sure the scenario was scary for your husband, but he doesn't need to worry about that. What is the title of this video?

 

[Kev]

This post speaks to me a lot, as a married man with a wife who initiated the idea of ENM, largely motivated by pansexuality, and has already begun getting out there and dating and sleeping with women. I meanwhile am finding that there are a lot of things, including my time and energy, that get in the way of meeting people. The whole thing does seem easier for women. My wife does not seem to understand that a situation which may prove to only be beneficial to her is not going to be very satisfying for me. So for me, either things pick up (and without tremendous effort due to limited time/energy) such that ENM brings me some fulfillment or I don't know that I can do it. I'm not really up for the life of a cuckold!

 

[dingedheart]

We've been together 8 years, mid-thirties, married recently and we have one child.

In all those yrs, that gravitational pull to be with women wasn’t there or strong enough until after you got married and had a kid? Any more kids planned?

How would you be with him having kids with another partner, accidently or intentionally? Plenty of threads here back up both.

We've agreed to be out to friends, but not family.

Is there family in the area? How bad would it be if they found out? Whose family do we fear the most? In my case, it was mine.

At this point, I think our communication is very good. I've long been pushing for honest, tough conversations. He's gradually gotten more and more on board with this, and now initiates them too, and is very engaged with them. (This was an issue before all this poly stuff even happened.)

That will serve you both very well in your upcoming journey.

I've tried to pass on a bit of my research to him, but it hasn't felt very positive, so far. He might feel like I'm selling him polyamory, rather than allowing him to feel the way he feels and process it all at his own pace. Maybe I just need to be quite mindful and selective about which content I choose to share with him. He's also initiated a bit of shared information seeking: a documentary. That was not a positive experience and very triggering for both of us. (It was a story of a woman with dozens of partners, and her poor fiance, who couldn't get a single date.)

EXCELLENT POINT. You’re not buying a boat or car here. Nobody likes being sold/shown the positives.

He says that if I have a girlfriend, he'd like to have one too. If I'm going on dates and weekend getaways with another romantic partner, he wants to do that too. We've talked about swinging or dating a woman together, and I'd be open to that if he wanted to try it, but I don't have any particular interest in that at this point, and neither does he.

I COMPLETELY understand his point on this and I wish him luck. My advice-- if he is a wedding ring wearer, retire it, both for the psychological detangling on a new path now and the outward appearance or availability signal.

When I met this woman, a concrete opportunity to explore my bisexuality (and polyamory I guess) presented itself, and I feel a deep, deep longing to pursue it-- with my husband's consent, whereas before it was more like, "I'm quite attracted to women, but am I really bi? Oh well, what does it matter? I'm married to a man now. Maybe one day he'll let me make out with women. That'd be fun."

Right place right time

This is so on point. It does feel like a grieving process for both of us, I think. Our marriage, as we both knew and envisioned it, has died. Something new and wonderful could come from all of this, but the loss of our old life is very real. I hadn't thought about that. Auch. Thank you.

Yes, and grieving is an individual process, too. Neither one can judge the other for how long or how short they grieve this loss.

I'm taking it very slow with this woman mostly due to geographical distance, but also to not overwhelm my husband, and I guess protect a bit of that feeling of our everyday life still being normal. I think you're right though, that it might be helpful to just rip off the Band-Aid. Ideally we'd sleep with someone else for the first time on the same night, but that's most likely not going to happen.

I think ripping off the band-aid and your idea of the ideal is trying to trick/distract any possible negative emotions. It might be better to go through the process than avoid it. It might not be as bad as you think or he thinks. Book club with orgasms… poker night with a happy ending.

Thanks, I needed to hear that. I know rationally that it's true, but emotionally it's hard to convince myself of this.

Here's a thought on lessening guilt, shame and regret. Would you be willing to put more skin in the game, if things broke bad and poly just didn’t work for him, in the form of a generous post-nuptial? LOTS of guys I’ve talked to over the yrs go along with poly because of kids and because of what it would cost in divorce. They feel sort of boxed in. I think this would allow people to greatly relax instead of feeling a gun in their mouth.

 

[Alita]

He may have asserted he won't do poly/mono, but this could certainly work out to be best, as things go on. In fact, sometimes even when both partners truly feel poly, years can go by where one partner has another partner or two, while the other member of the original couple does not have another partner, or at least a lasting one.

My current partner Pixi and I experienced this in our early years. For a while, I would have up to two bfs at a time, and she wouldn't have one. Then, she would have this or that bf for a few months, while I had a steady bf for 2 years. Finally she found a long-term male partner, while I kept dating, finding bfs/gfs, and losing or leaving them (for various reasons). Finally, I took a 3-year break from even trying to meet anyone, and she was with her bf (and me) that whole time. 2 years ago, I found a great bf, while she still has her bf, and we all seem to be pretty stable. This took 14 years of finding and losing other partners and making things work with our current guys.

Likewise, I had a period in college where one summer I was dating three guys, and managing it pretty well. Then I settled down with yet another guy, and we were married in our 20s and stayed together for 30 years total, until we'd grown apart and moved on. I've been practicing polyamory ever since then (2008). I did try poly with my ex husband quite a few years before we separated, but it didn't work out.

So she will have many of the same hoops to jump through with her husband as you do... I'd recommend she and her husband read Opening Up too.

Yes. When my husband and I first opened our marriage, it was ostensibly for me to explore my bisexuality. Unfortunately, we were stupid and tried to be unicorn hunters, looking to share one woman. (This was 1999, and there was only one book out on polyamory back then, The Ethical Slut [which wasn't very good], and of course, no online info.)

What happened was, the woman we found (a mutual acquaintance/casual friend who, at that time, lived in Canada, 300 miles away) said she was interested in both of us, but that idea never went beyond her words. She in fact, mistrusted women, was not attracted to them, and was only into my husband. They had a weekend together, with sex and romance. He fell in love with her and vice versa, he fell out of love with me, and our marriage was shaken to the core. We struggled on for 8 more years, with counseling, but it was hopeless. Our relationship had run its course. We both needed something different. Very soon after we separated, his friend (I had vetoed their sex, but their feelings didn't change) moved from Canada to our state and moved in with him.

(I don't recommend vetoes. That was another stupid mistake. It just led to more problems.)


For us, it definitely was worth the risk. I had outgrown my college boyfriend/husband. I had become confident I was pansexual, non-binary and truly polyamorous. Our children were grown. My ex-h was still straight and mono. So was his gf. I found my current gf just 3 months after I separated from my husband! I lived on in the marital house for 6 months, then got an apartment on my own. After 2 years there, I got a house with my gf.

I hope your husband will read it too.

Huh, didn't she have schoolwork? I didn't have time for dozens of sex partners in college lol. Honestly, how often could she see them? One per day each month? 3 guys in one day? Gangbangs? I am sorry watching it together was upsetting. It has nothing to do with poly reality. I am sure the scenario was scary for your husband, but he doesn't need to worry about that. What is the title of this video?

Thanks for sharing your story and insight, I really appreciate it.

I'm probably exaggerating the dozens of partners from that documentary, but she certainly kept busy and got lots of messages from guys all the time and went on many many dates, while her fiance struggled to meet anyone. He found someone eventually though. The documentary wouldn't be available in the US. And yes, it was not very representative of polyamory, I'm sure.

 

[Alita]

In all those yrs, that gravitational pull to be with women wasn’t there or strong enough until after you got married and had a kid? Any more kids planned?

It was there but it got a lot stronger when I met this particular woman.

We're considering having another kid, but very back and forth on that. I'm trying to figure out if it's actually what I/we want or if it's just societal conditioning - that you should want to have more and to give your child a sibling.

How would you be with him having kids with another partner, accidently or intentionally? Plenty of threads here back up both.

We've talked about this, and I think this is a VERY scary scenario. But you know, no way to avoid risk entirely, poly or mono.

Is there family in the area? How bad would it be if they found out? Whose family do we fear the most? In my case, it was mine.

Honestly I wouldn't mind being out to everyone and anyone if we were both enthusiastic about poly. But since my partner is still figuring out how he feels about all this, at this point it would be very sensitive if his family found out - I would particularly fear judgement from his mother directed at me. Which I would understand, but still, it would be very painful.

Thanks again!

 

[Alita]

This post speaks to me a lot, as a married man with a wife who initiated the idea of ENM, largely motivated by pansexuality, and has already begun getting out there and dating and sleeping with women. I meanwhile am finding that there are a lot of things, including my time and energy, that get in the way of meeting people. The whole thing does seem easier for women. My wife does not seem to understand that a situation which may prove to only be beneficial to her is not going to be very satisfying for me. So for me, either things pick up (and without tremendous effort due to limited time/energy) such that ENM brings me some fulfillment or I don't know that I can do it. I'm not really up for the life of a cuckold!

Thanks for sharing, Kev. Sounds like a very similar situation. May I ask, have you talked about how long you might be willing to wait for things to pick up for you or what you'll do if they don't? Suck a tricky position to be in.

And how does your wife feel about you're not being to happy with the situation?

I understand wanting things to be fair and equal in the relationship. At the same time these things are so hard to control - whether or not you each meet someone you hit it off with who want the same things as you do. And if one partner does and the other doesn't (for however long) then do we conclude that poly doesn't work for this couple? Or wait?

I'm completely new to all this, but I image that it's very likely to be like that throughout a polyamorous/open relationship: Wife dates someone, husband doesn't, which may be painful for husband, maybe both. Then wife experiences a breakup, while husband meets someone new, making it painful for wife. And this can go on until at some point both have fulfilling outside relationships at the same time. For a while. Or maybe forever, who knows. I guess diving into polyamory we have to accept that things aren't going to be completely equal, cause relationship can't be controlled like that.

I'm really trying to see it from both perspectives. How would I feel if I was the other party and my husband was seeing someone and I hadn't met anyone myself and was struggling to find the time and energy to put into making it happen? It would definitely be triggering and make me feel jealous and envious and left out. And I guess from there you're left with a few options:

1. Have patience and trust that you might meet someone eventually. In this process practice managing jealousy and envy, communicate and ask for what you need from your partner in terms of reassurance, closeness, space, quality time, boundaries, intimacy etc.

2. Tell your partner it's not working for you and ask to go back to monogamy. At this point both could give an ultimatum and end polyamory or the marriage.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

 

[kdt26417]

I suppose ending the marriage is possible, I hope it doesn't come to that but you are pretty solidly affixed to this new gal.

 

[Bobbi]

Thanks for sharing, Kev. Sounds like a very similar situation. May I ask, have you talked about how long you might be willing to wait for things to pick up for you or what you'll do if they don't? Suck a tricky position to be in.

And how does your wife feel about you're not being to happy with the situation?

I understand wanting things to be fair and equal in the relationship. At the same time these things are so hard to control - whether or not you each meet someone you hit it off with who want the same things as you do. And if one partner does and the other doesn't (for however long) then do we conclude that poly doesn't work for this couple? Or wait?

I'm completely new to all this, but I image that it's very likely to be like that throughout a polyamorous/open relationship: Wife dates someone, husband doesn't, which may be painful for husband, maybe both. Then wife experiences a breakup, while husband meets someone new, making it painful for wife. And this can go on until at some point both have fulfilling outside relationships at the same time. For a while. Or maybe forever, who knows. I guess diving into polyamory we have to accept that things aren't going to be completely equal, cause relationship can't be controlled like that.

I'm really trying to see it from both perspectives. How would I feel if I was the other party and my husband was seeing someone and I hadn't met anyone myself and was struggling to find the time and energy to put into making it happen? It would definitely be triggering and make me feel jealous and envious and left out. And I guess from there you're left with a few options:

1. Have patience and trust that you might meet someone eventually. In this process practice managing jealousy and envy, communicate and ask for what you need from your partner in terms of reassurance, closeness, space, quality time, boundaries, intimacy etc.

2. Tell your partner it's not working for you and ask to go back to monogamy. At this point both could give an ultimatum and end polyamory or the marriage.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

I think it's really important to focus on the nature of your established relationship, and not focus on other relationships, to decide if you are/can do poly, or not. Sometimes it can be good when just one partner has someone to date, as it gives everyone time to work through the feelings and situations that come up about that. The more people that are involved, the more feelings/situations you will need to work through, sometimes several at once. Poly is a heavy-growth way of life. It's okay to slow it down and deal with one thing at a time.

Also, when you've been in a couple for a period of time, you can forget how hard it is to meet someone worth dating. Add poly, and the dating pool just gets smaller There will be periods when there will be lots of dating without success, periods of enjoying someone for a bit, and periods when you are over dating, and just want to be happy with what you’ve got.

I had dated very little in my life. I (F) got lucky and met my 2nd partner on the 3rd date out of the gate. But I wanted to explore more, as I have plenty of time. After going on over 100 1st dates, I'm done with that. Now I only date someone new if things just happen in everyday life and I find a connection with someone.

My 1st partner (M) took a year of daily activity on dating apps to get very few dates, before he found someone to date long term. He has 2 people he dates regularly, whom he would call girlfriends. He is still on dating apps daily, and goes out on dates with someone new maybe once every couple months, without avail. It's hard out there.

You can choose not to date and still be poly. For me, being poly isn't about dating a lot, it's more about not having the rules that come with monogamy. I can look; I can fantasize. And if I meet someone I click with, instead of saying to myself, “You can't do that because you are in a relationship with X,” I can explore it with autonomy, without guilt, dishonesty or shame, and see what can be between me and that person.

It's easy to think that if your established partner would just get another partner it would be so much easier, but that's not necessarily true. You will still have to work through the same stuff whether they are dating someone or not.

Another relationship does NOT replace the needs in your established relationship. I cannot emphasize that point enough. Any insecurities, jealousies, missing needs, etc., in your relationship will be there whether you (or your partner) are seeing others or not. Polyamory brings those things to the surface. How you both address them is what's vitally important. Self work and becoming much more skilled at communication has to be a priority, or you will both have a miserable time.

 

[Albert Ross]

For me, being poly isn't about dating a lot. It's more about not having the rules that come with monogamy. I can look; I can fantasize, and if I meet someone I click with, instead of saying to myself, "You can't do that, because you are in a relationship with X,” I can explore it with autonomy, without guilt, dishonesty or shame, and see what could be between me and that other person.

This is what draws me to polyamory, too. I don't feel a powerful drive to add more relationships to my life... but I don't want to have to say no to them by default, either.

My wife does not seem to understand that a situation which may prove to only be beneficial to her is not going to be very satisfying for me. So for me, either things pick up (and without tremendous effort due to limited time/energy) such that ENM brings me some fulfillment or I don't know that I can do it. I'm not really up for the life of a cuckold!

It sounds like you probably don't want to be in a non-monogamous relationship, when it comes right down to it.

 

[Alita]

It sounds like you probably don't want to be in a non-monogamous relationship, when it comes right down to it.

So what do people do when this happens? When both truly, deeply want to stay in the marriage, but one wants ENM and one doesn't? Where's the compromise? This is so tricky!

 

[Bobbi]

So what do people do when this happens? When both truly, deeply want to stay in the marriage, but one wants ENM and one doesn't? Where's the compromise? This is so tricky!

Unfortunately, there isn't a compromise. You want two different things. Either one of you isn’t going to be truly happy or you won't be together. Couples have to figure out how to navigate these situations.

There are tons of ways that couples can be incompatible: having kids, moving to a new city, city vs country life, etc.

Give yourself time. Find a good poly-friendly therapist. Work together. I think it’s totally possible, with the right support, partner, time, experience, and growth, to have a change of heart about polyamory. In the end, you can leave at any time. You aren't locked in like with having kids. Just don't make a hasty decision. Like NRE, charged emotions fade, and what once was a huge deal can become a lot less or even disappear.

Be kind to yourself and your partner on this journey, however it may end up.

 

[GalaGirl]

Fuuck, does this happen? This scares me. I feel absolutely certain I wouldn't fall out of love with him, even when in love with someone else, but I guess that's the difference between mono and poly. And then the question is: is it worth the risk?

That happens, even without the poly. People fall out of love with their spouse and choose to divorce.

But even if I were able and willing to shut all this back down, I kind of don't want him to be with me just because he chose me once and signed the papers. I truly want him to be happy and fulfilled and to experience the fulness of life, including all it has to offer in terms of sex and romance. I want him to have all those things and still choose me. And if he finds happiness elsewhere and doesn't want to be with me after all, at least I'll know he made an active choice and wasn't just passively staying in the relationship, like so many seem to do.

It sounds like you want participatory relationships, where people actively choose to be there.

We're considering having another kid, but very back and forth on that. I'm trying to figure out if it's actually what I/we want or if it's just societal conditioning - that you should want to have more and to give your child a sibling.

"Back and forth" is not a "joyful yes" , so I'd suggest having no more kids. I don't think it's wise to try to conceive and start to do poly at the same time. In the worst case, you two will break up, and then will have to deal with a pregnancy and newborn coparenting. That sounds super stressful, especially when you aren't even sure you want another child, or are just going along with a "script" that society seems to expect.

Having a sibling-- what does that really mean? Yes, they can grow up together for a time, but that doesn't automatically mean they will be close or get along as adults after moving out.

I understand wanting things to be fair and equal in the relationship. At the same time, these things are so hard to control-- whether or not you each meet someone you hit it off with who want the same things as you do. And if one partner does and the other doesn't (for however long) then do we conclude that poly doesn't work for this couple? Or wait?

"Fair and equal," to me, means both spouses have the opportunity to date others. How it actually turns out, whether they actually use the option, won't be "equal" or "the same," because of different skills, dyads, interests, etc. And each spouse will have different things going on at different times. I'm glad you realize that.

So what do people do when this happens, when both truly, deeply want to stay in the marriage, but one wants ENM and one doesn't? Where's the compromise? This is so tricky

Compromise is for popsicles-- if we both want the last one in the box, we can split it. Neither one gets the whole popsicle they want, but it's not a big deal, because after dinner we can hit the store, get a new box, and THEN we can each have a whole popsicle. It's easy to compromise on small stuff.

One does NOT compromise on core values, though. If both want to be married, okay. But why does it have to be with each other? Is it habit? Does the future without a spouse sound scary? Is it less about "staying married" and more "avoiding breaking up?" Maybe this helps you assess:

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.

www.scarleteen.com

Staying married because both want to be married, DESPITE a major difference in core values, which would have meant you never would have gotten married in the first place, so it sounds more like avoiding a break-up or a fear of change, or something like that, rather than coming/staying together because of shared values.

If one wants ENM and the other does not, being miserable -- like one spouse agreeing to ENM, even though they don't want it, or one spouse agreeing to monogamy, even though they don't want it, or taking turns doing it every year... might be "fair." But "taking turns being in misery" doesn't sound great to me. Why is the marriage shape so important, that preserving it must come at the expense of the people's wellbeing? Isn't the wellbeing of the people the ACTUAL important thing?

What do people do? I think the healthiest choice would be to allow the relationship shape to CHANGE. If the marriage shape isn't panning out anymore, you can break up and change it. And if people want to heal from the breakup for a time, and then change AGAIN to "exes and friends" later, they can do that. They can choose to love each other and remain in each other's lives that way. A friendship shape, in this new chapter of life, might be a relationship shape that would fit better AND preserve the wellbeing of the people, rather than bungling along with a wonky marriage.

Meeting this woman might have been a "lightbulb" moment for you, but that doesn't mean you have to jump into dating her and changing everything on a dime. It's okay to slow down and be more intentional.

Maybe you want to think about slowing your roll, dropping this woman, and seeking a poly counselor, talking things out with your husband, and making an emergency plan for divorce, if it has to happen. If you can't talk about it now, you could ask yourselves why not. Why would it be better to wait until a crisis, and THEN try to make the plan while all stressed out? Nobody wants a boat to sink or plan to crash, but they still think ahead and pack life preservers and parachutes.

YMMV, but you could try here for counselors:

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

www.polyfriendly.org

Galagirl

 

[Alita]

That happens even without the poly. People fall out of love with the spouse and choose to divorce.

Yes, you're right. There are no guarantees in love.

"Back and forth" is not a "joyful yes," so I'd suggest having no more kids. I don't think it's wise to try to conceive and do poly. In the worst case, you two would break up and then have to deal with a pregnancy and newborn coparenting. That sounds super stressful, especially when you aren't even sure you want another child or are just going along with a "script" society seems to expect.

Having a sibling -- what does that really mean? Yes, they can grow up together for a time, but that doesn't automatically mean they will be close or get along as adults after moving out.

Good points. The joyful yes might come, though. But it's not there yet, and I wouldn't choose to try to get pregnant before feeling that joyful yes from both of us, and being perfectly willing to take on all the sacrifice it would entail, including potentially pausing or ending ENM.

"Fair and equal" me means both spouses have the opportunity to date others. How it actually turns out, whether they actually use the option, won't be "equal" or "the same," because of different skills, dyads, interests, etc. And each spouse will have different things going on at different times. I'm glad you realize that.

I agree. But things would probably feel different for my husband if we both wanted ENM to begin with. Then he might feel more accepting about the fact that our dating situation is different. But I'm hoping his feelings will change once he has some positive experiences with dating, and/or sees for himself that I'm showing up just the same in our marriage, if not more, after starting polyamory.

One does NOT compromise on core values though. If both want to be married, okay. But why does it have to be with each other? Is it habit, or does he future without a spouse sounds scary? Is it less about "staying married" and more about "avoiding breaking up?"

I see your point. But I feel absolutely certain that I'd rather be with this man than be able to date the woman or anyone else. And, at least at this point, he'd rather take on the emotional work of trying ENM than ask me to suppress my bisexuality. I appreciate that very much, and it's part of the reason I love him.

I'm not anti-divorce, though. I have given a lot of thought to divorce and feel I have a very realistic view of the risk of splitting up for any number of reasons.

I know that I never want to stay in a relationship out of fear of being alone or motivated by an avoidance of the pain of a breakup. I know that I would have never chosen to marry or have children with someone that I didn't feel certain would be kind and compassionate to me in the event of a breakup, and with whom I would be able to have a healthy relationship after divorce. I know that I would never pressure someone to stay with me if they stopped loving me. I know that I would never stay with someone who stopped being kind to me or was abusive in any way.

Our core values are kindness, respect, humor, compassion. We differ on how conservative/openminded we are about certain things, but I think our differences help both of us grow and also stay grounded.

This has been the case with other things related to our lifestyles. I'm hoping it will be the case when it comes to ENM.

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

www.polyfriendly.org

Thanks for the tip! We've actually already started therapy. It's been good, so far.

Thanks again, Galagirl, for your input. I really appreciate it.

 

[GalaGirl]

I see your point. But I feel absolutely certain that I'd rather be with this man than be able to date the woman or anyone else. And, at least at this point, he'd rather take on the emotional work of trying ENM than ask me to suppress my bisexuality. I appreciate that very much, and it's part of the reason I love him.

So you don't think you are bisexual unless you are actively dating a woman? Or is it that you want to be able to talk to him about your bisexual things, but have been bottling that up? Would you please clarify?

I agree. But things would probably feel different for my husband if we both wanted ENM to begin with. Then he might feel more accepting about the fact that our dating situation is different. But I'm hoping his feelings will change once he has some positive experiences with dating, and/or sees for himself that I'm showing up just the same in our marriage, if not more, after starting polyamory.

If he doesn't want ENM and is mostly considering it or doing it to make you happy, rather than making himself happy, eventually he's going to realize that he's doing a lot more extra work to have less: less peace, less calm, less work, and less "old way of marriage."

And even though it was his own choice to go out on a limb and do all that, he might "blame shift," and become resentful of you for "Asking him to do it" or "Making him do it."

But I'm hoping his feelings will change once he has some positive experiences with dating, and/or sees for himself that I'm showing up just the same in our marriage, if not more, after starting polyamory.

Can you hear how this sounds? You are hoping an experience WITH SOMEONE ELSE will make all this extra work he is doing to retain the relationship with you worthwhile for him? And even though he's doing more work, are you going to show up the same as before in the marriage, or will you show up more AFTER starting poly? Why aren't you showing up more now?

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket or anything, just pointing out that sometimes the reluctant partner actually does poly better than the one who initially wanted it. Are you prepared for that?

But other times the reluctant partner isn't thrilled to even go there, and is not "joyful yes" about it. It's more like, "Well... if you really want to..." You can tell they don't want to, it's just that they don't want to break up, either. Are you prepared for that?

Don't let it become like you're dragging things out, and there's a lot of pain for both partners, just because you both didn't want to be super honest with each other from the start, or were afraid of a break-up, or whatever.

I know that I never want to stay in a relationship out of fear of being alone or motivated by an avoidance of the pain of a breakup. I know that I would have never chosen to marry or have children with someone that I didn't feel certain would be kind and compassionate to me in the event of a breakup, and with whom I would be able to have a healthy relationship after divorce. I know that I would never pressure someone to stay with me if they stopped loving me. I know that I would never stay with someone who stopped being kind to me or was abusive in any way.

That's all good, but it centers on you. Would you be at risk of being too "lala" over getting to try poly that you would not notice he if he was struggling, and was putting on a brave face while going to pieces inside, willing to subsume himself to the relationship, and hurting himself by doing so?

Would you have have the wherewithal to end poly or end the marriage then, or would you turn a blind eye so you could have both? This might be something to think about.

Again, I suggest you think about dropping the woman. She brought you a "lightbulb moment," but that doesn't mean you have to rush to date her. Spend time in counseling to make sure you both want to end the previous marriage agreements, make new ones, and get into polyamory. And make that emergency plan if this needs to break up.

I'm hoping it does turn out how you wish. But if this is not what he signed up for, he can't stop you from ending the old deal. But he doesn't have to sign up for some new deal you want now, either.

Tread with caution.

Our core values are kindness, respect, humor, compassion. We differ on how conservative/openminded we are about certain things, but I think our differences help both of us grow and also stay grounded.

This has been the case with other things related to our lifestyles. I'm hoping it will be the case when it comes to ENM.

Hopefully that is so.

Galagirl

 

[dingedheart]

If he doesn't want ENM and is mostly considering it or doing it to make you happy, rather than making himself happy, eventually he's going to realize he's doing a lot more extra work to have less: less peace, less calm, less work, and less "old way of marriage."

And even though it was his own choice to go out on a limb and do all that, he might "blame shift" and become resentful of you for "Asking him to do it" or "Making him do it."

One thing I’d add here is the hammer of divorce and the financial consequences that typically has for husbands AND daily contact with children. Lots of guys have told me they were reluctant go along with divorcing for these reasons: love, shared history, wanting to be supportive and a team player, and not wanting to live in a studio apartment and only see their kids on the weekends.