Poly Fallout, advice needed

I had fully invested in my secondary and a future with him and am still in love with him, in spite of the hurt. Both men cheated on me, so to be honest I don’t know how to navigate this. I love my primary, he broke me, he still loves me and wants me to stay. I don’t have in-love feelings for him and I don’t know if I can be happy alone with him. So I was heading in the direction of leaving. Now I feel immense pain and anxiety but am still head over heels for secondary. I worry I am not enough, worry I won’t be happy with all this hurt either. Maybe the love and attraction will die with this, who knows. But I never had this with primary so I don’t know.
I don’t want to be the woman who gets walked all over. I want to be the woman someone is proud to love and strives to honor that connection. This is just killing me.
 
You could, of course, still break up with your husband/primary, and try to repair things with your secondary. Is your secondary very contrite about the cheating? How reliable is his commitment to stop cheating? or is he inclined to continue that affair?

Another option would be to break up with both men (your secondary and your primary). I don't think you want to do that, but it is a valid option and you have to consider it. The impression I get is that you are inclined to keep dating your secondary, to forgive him for the cheating, and to try to move forward with him. You could do that, and let your husband/primary choose whether he'll divorce you.

Alas, it's probably too late to avoid being walked all over. Both men have already done that to you.
 
I had fully invested in my secondary and a future with him and am still in love with him, in spite of the hurt. Both men cheated on me, so to be honest I don’t know how to navigate this. I love my primary, he broke me, he still loves me and wants me to stay.
He can want what he wants. You do what is right for you, that which gives you a feeling of self-respect. People won't respect you unless you respect yourself.
I don’t have in-love feelings for him and I don’t know if I can be happy alone with him.
Be honest with yourself. You won't be happy or respect yourself if your try to return to monogamy with this man.
So I was heading in the direction of leaving. Now I feel immense pain and anxiety but am still head over heels for secondary. I worry I am not enough, worry I won’t be happy with all this hurt either. Maybe the love and attraction will die with this, who knows.
You worry you won't be happy. Of course! You can't trust him now. It's not that you're "not enough." "Secondary" is not enough. You don't need to settle for cheaters. If I were you I would take time away from both men, from all dating, and work on what it is in myself that causes this pattern.
I don’t want to be the woman who gets walked all over. I want to be the woman someone is proud to love and strives to honor that connection. This is just killing me.
It's killing the old you so the new you can be born. Find your own integrity and self respect and the good honorable people will find you.
 
You could, of course, still break up with your husband/primary, and try to repair things with your secondary. Is your secondary very contrite about the cheating? How reliable is his commitment to stop cheating? or is he inclined to continue that affair?

Another option would be to break up with both men (your secondary and your primary). I don't think you want to do that, but it is a valid option and you have to consider it. The impression I get is that you are inclined to keep dating your secondary, to forgive him for the cheating, and to try to move forward with him. You could do that, and let your husband/primary choose whether he'll divorce you.

Alas, it's probably too late to avoid being walked all over. Both men have already done that to you.
I really appreciate your feedback, in particular. It feels even and compassionate. Thank you.

He is extremely remorseful, disgusted with himself, hurting because he hurt me. I believe this was more about his primary shutting him out…he has long said he is very happy with me the two nights a week we have and sad and lonely the rest of the time. My therapist suggested- if I give him a second chance- he needs to take responsibility for his behavior and seek therapy to work through this. He agreed this morning to do this. So we will see. My therapist also suggested I give myself some time and grace, and surround myself with happy activities and loving people. I shared a pitcher of margaritas with a friend and went shopping. Three new pairs of boots and a sweater later, I at least feel a little more stylish!
 
He can want what he wants. You do what is right for you, that which gives you a feeling of self-respect. People won't respect you unless you respect yourself.

Be honest with yourself. You won't be happy or respect yourself if your try to return to monogamy with this man.

You worry you won't be happy. Of course! You can't trust him now. It's not that you're "not enough." "Secondary" is not enough. You don't need to settle for cheaters. If I were you I would take time away from both men, from all dating, and work on what it is in myself that causes this pattern.

It's killing the old you so the new you can be born. Find your own integrity and self respect and the good honorable people will find you.
It’s hard to feel I don’t have to settle for cheaters. One man has been a part of my life for eighteen years and another for five…and there are no guarantees the next guy will be truer. This is about their weaknesses. It’s hard to remember that when I am feeling low, but I know it’s true. I don’t think I cause the pattern. My primary was a coward and didn’t want to talk to me about our intimate deficiencies. Secondary was hurting from his primary partner leaving him (moving out of the room, ending intimacy) and feeling lonely the majority of the time. It was never ok for either of them but they both were troubled and I was in the path.
 
It’s hard to feel I don’t have to settle for cheaters.
Why? Why don't you believe you deserve better?
One man has been a part of my life for eighteen years and another for five…and there are no guarantees the next guy will be truer.
I know you believed both men were true to you, before they cheated. How can you get better at seeing/sensing the red flags that tell you they are cheating?
This is about their weaknesses. It’s hard to remember that when I am feeling low, but I know it’s true. I don’t think I cause the pattern.
I am speaking from a caring place. I am not blaming you, per se. But it takes two to tango. I know 50% of marriages end in divorce. I do not believe monogamy is really practical for humans. I think we are all wired to be promiscuous. That is why I am poly. If you were poly, you might understand that you can "be enough" as yourself, but you can't be two people. If someone feels the need to have 2 partners, they can do this ethically with polyamory.

But polyamorists can cheat. Your "Secondary" did. Y'all aren't going to be great at poly right out of the gate. Trying to work in a quad formation is extremely difficult. Your quad got all off kilter and unbalanced and people did weird unworkable things to try to stay in balance.
My primary was a coward and didn’t want to talk to me about our intimate deficiencies.
So he wasn't a good candidate for an honorable mono marriage, or a polyamorous configuration. Take a step back from him.
Secondary was hurting from his primary partner leaving him (moving out of the room, ending intimacy) and feeling lonely the majority of the time. It was never ok for either of them, but they both were troubled and I was in the path.
So, if he is troubled, protect yourself, step away out of his path. Let him work on himself in therapy and give it a good 6 months. Go completely no contact for at least 40 days. Don't talk, don't text, delete him from your socials. It will be hard for a week or two, but then you'll get used to it. Resist the urge to white knight him. Take care of yourself!
 
I had fully invested in my secondary and a future with him and am still in love with him, in spite of the hurt. Both men cheated on me, so to be honest I don’t know how to navigate this.

Maybe take a time out? Slow down. Do some thinking.

You aren't obligated to continue with either one.


I love my primary, he broke me, he still loves me and wants me to stay. I don’t have in-love feelings for him and I don’t know if I can be happy alone with him. So I was heading in the direction of leaving.

It's ok to still leave.

Now I feel immense pain and anxiety but am still head over heels for secondary. I worry I am not enough, worry I won’t be happy with all this hurt either. Maybe the love and attraction will die with this, who knows. But I never had this with primary so I don’t know.

You JUST found out. It's a lot of things to process.

I don’t want to be the woman who gets walked all over. I want to be the woman someone is proud to love and strives to honor that connection.

And you deserve that. If neither of these partners make the cut? Cannot manage ethical poly? You are not obligated to stay with either one of them.
Maybe you end it with both and take a dating break to heal.

This is just killing me.
Yes. Learning of cheating on you several times -- it's a lot to take in and process.

But YOU didn't do the cheating. You don't deserve poor treatment.

My therapist suggested- if I give him a second chance- he needs to take responsibility for his behavior and seek therapy to work through this. He agreed this morning to do this. So we will see.

Is that the plan? Wait and see if he owns this and does the work to clean up his own mess before you decide to get back together or not?
 
Hi JRPCandle,

It sounds like there's some hope that the secondary won't hurt you again in the future. I would try to rebuild the trust with him and go on from there. Him getting therapy would be part of that process.

Sympathetic regards,
Kevin T.
 
I am so thankful, everyone, for your advice and insight. Magdlyn and GalaGirl, you make some very great points that are admittedly hard for me to take. Being in a romance with secondary steadily for almost five years, it’s hard to take a step back. We saw each other several times a week for a meal or a quick hello, spent two nights together most weeks and an occasional third, traveled away together for two to three nights at a time every year or so. This agreement to see a couples counselor with primary means no overnights with secondary for the next couple months…I can see him for lunches and things, but no overnights. I already feel the distance. Now that I know about the infidelity, I both want to stay away and want his comfort. He is an extremely loving, comforting presence.

Secondary and I have a connection that has never been matched and he says the same about me. We “fit” together, we have great sexual chemistry, we long for each other, we enjoy just being in each other’s company. When primary’s wife ended things, he became someone who was really happy twice a week with me and sad/lonely the rest, seeing that I was in a permanent relationship of my own the rest of the time. I think the temptation to be with someone (who is known to be in an open situation of her own) and feel physical affection (though superficial) was strong. I don’t condone the behavior but the context makes it make sense. All the while WE have been amazing, loving, passionate. All the while he has left me messages and videos about how much love he feels and at times how sad he is we can’t be together more. Often I will be somewhere- sledding with my kids, at Christmas Eve service, going for a walk- and he will voice a desire to be by my side, holding my hand. Before I found out about the affair, he knew where my heart was leading and he couldn’t wait for us to begin a future finally together and his only complaint was the things we are missing right now.

All that is to try to help explain why taking space from him seems so hard! I completely agree I would find clarity, more self awareness and respect…but I’m drawn to him. The first time I saw him after I found out, I held him as he sobbed and held me tightly. I was angry of course, but still mad for him. He knows I have a hard path ahead and it’s uncertain and this could all end. He wants the second chance, 100% wants to be with me. And I can feel both his regret and his passion in his embrace. My feelings are of course mixed- I want distance to deal with my pain, closeness because I miss him, and I still crush on him and anytime he kisses me, I go weak at the knees. So I definitely hear you. And you are making sense. It’s not lost on me that I am emotionally compromised. My immediate plan (and I reserve the right to change this at any moment)- to continue to talk to and see secondary, to continue to seek a path forward through couples counseling with primary, exploring what (if anything) is still there, to practice self love and surround myself with supportive people in happy settings, allow the dust to settle more and see how my feelings continue to evolve. One day at a time!
 
I hope you feel better for airing out some. It is going to be hard.

He cheated, you seem to want to step back to figure out how to proceed. And a part of you is like "I know that was bad but I love him" -- because you are so smitten. And YOU didn't do anything wrong.

I could see where it would be hard. Because you DIDN'T do anything wrong.

Not being mean ok? But kinda wondering... is secondary what enabled you to keep going with primary? So facing being just with primary for now or on your own if you end it with both is a lonely/scary prospect?

I think taking it one day at a time is a good idea. Help you get through the swirling emotions. It's also ok to go hour by hour is day by day is still too big. It's been shocking news.

I think the temptation to be with someone (who is known to be in an open situation of her own) and feel physical affection (though superficial) was strong.

Could have just poly dated her. Why did it have to be cheating?

Before I found out about the affair, he knew where my heart was leading and he couldn’t wait for us to begin a future finally together and his only complaint was the things we are missing right now.

Are you saying he was wanting to rope you off for himself?

I don’t want to be the woman who gets walked all over. I want to be the woman someone is proud to love and strives to honor that connection.

If that is the goal?

Please think about doing that day by day slowing down, talking to your own therapist.

I get you have strong feelings for secondary. But your love for him might urge you to "gloss over" poor behavior or want to "hurry up" and get through this faster. You seem aware you are emotionally compromised -- being self aware is good.

Remember that secondary cheating might bring up unhealed things from primary cheating.

It's ok to take a time out to grieve. This whole thing might hit like a series of waves rather than one big whoosh. YKWIM?
 
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I get you have strong feelings for secondary. But your love for him might urge you to "gloss over" poor behavior or want to "hurry up" and get through this faster. You seem aware you are emotionally compromised -- being self aware is good.
yes I was thinking this same thing. Essentially similar crimes in terms or physical needs thing however husband is labeled a villain and coward and Bf labeled poor guy just not getting his dick wet enough. In my head BF is 10x worse because he knows the damage he will cause if caught AND why can’t he be honest in an already open relationship ? Cheating in a poly relationship makes NO sense to me. Sorry I don’t get it.

Remember that secondary cheating might bring up unhealed things from primary cheating.
might …how could it not ?? I think that should be expected here.

another point gala just made is bf trying to rope you off. Is it possible his wife sense that he had checked out of their marriage and that’s why she moved out of their bedroom and cut him off sexually ??
 
Hi JRPCandle,

For me, the thing that secondary did wrong was, not that he was seeing someone else, but rather, that he didn't tell you first and get your consent. That was where he strayed from the definition of polyamory, and did wrong by you. I suppose he figured you wouldn't give your consent, and so he didn't want to take that chance. But that doesn't make it okay.

I'm sorry you're going through this.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I hope you feel better for airing out some. It is going to be hard.

He cheated, you seem to want to step back to figure out how to proceed. And a part of you is like "I know that was bad but I love him" -- because you are so smitten. And YOU didn't do anything wrong.

I could see where it would be hard. Because you DIDN'T do anything wrong.

Not being mean ok? But kinda wondering... is secondary what enabled you to keep going with primary? So facing being just with primary for now or on your own if you end it with both is a lonely/scary prospect?

I think taking it one day at a time is a good idea. Help you get through the swirling emotions. It's also ok to go hour by hour is day by day is still too big. It's been shocking news.



Could have just poly dated her. Why did it have to be cheating?



Are you saying he was wanting to rope you off for himself?



If that is the goal?

Please think about doing that day by day slowing down, talking to your own therapist.

I get you have strong feelings for secondary. But your love for him might urge you to "gloss over" poor behavior or want to "hurry up" and get through this faster. You seem aware you are emotionally compromised -- being self aware is good.

Remember that secondary cheating might bring up unhealed things from primary cheating.

It's ok to take a time out to grieve. This whole thing might hit like a series of waves rather than one big whoosh. YKWIM?
Hey GalaGirl, I think inexperience before marriage with primary sort of led to being with secondary (for my part) and then yes, I think being able to be with secondary simultaneously allowed me to stay with primary…I’m not sure it would have lasted otherwise, having seen what passion and love were possible outside of my primary relationship. It’s not that I married young or never had attraction, it’s just never been as intense as with secondary. So my hurt and broken status from primary’s affair balanced with new found electricity with secondary (plus knowing primary was in another relationship fulfilling things I didn’t for him) made it easier to survive in primary relationship. With secondary out of the picture, it’s hard to imagine a fulfilling and happy life that isn’t lonely. I’m trying to see if it’s possible, though.

Secondary could not have poly dated her without a new rules discussion amongst the four of us…the original agreement was no one outside of the two marriages. They had had some experience with poly before us, we were newbies. It’s not so much that they demanded certain things, it’s that they expressed their desires and we went along for it, not really sure what we were looking for. Secondary’s wife moved out of the room without a word and secondary hoped the situation would somehow improve and she would change her mind. I don’t think he would ever have thought of asking to date outside because at first he hoped she would come back, then he was just sad and lonely and angry.

Secondary definitely wants me all to himself.

I am trying not to gloss things over, give it the due attention needed. But I am sure I am anyway. I will admit it’s painful and I have a lot of peripheral problems on my plate. I’m not sure I’ve ever been in such a low spot, which makes it hard to stay away from the person who makes me feel loved and at peace. I am trying to surround myself with friends and do things I enjoy. I am trying to keep a future without secondary as a possibility.

The waves definitely keep hitting!
 
yes I was thinking this same thing. Essentially similar crimes in terms or physical needs thing however husband is labeled a villain and coward and Bf labeled poor guy just not getting his dick wet enough. In my head BF is 10x worse because he knows the damage he will cause if caught AND why can’t he be honest in an already open relationship ? Cheating in a poly relationship makes NO sense to me. Sorry I don’t get it.


might …how could it not ?? I think that should be expected here.

another point gala just made is bf trying to rope you off. Is it possible his wife sense that he had checked out of their marriage and that’s why she moved out of their bedroom and cut him off sexually ??
I think the biggest difference between the two crimes:
Primary cheated in our mono marriage…it was once physical but ongoing online (sexting, sending videos) and primary kept trying to revisit physicality with the other woman who got cold feet (she would message “I’m not sure, it’s risky” and he would say “some risks are worth taking.” All the way up to the day before our daughter’s birth. Then all apologies. Intimacy with primary was always challenged…I have a bigger libido and remember at least one occasion going to bed crying when denied intimacy. He was doing this all in the background while I was there.
Secondary had been unfaithful in early part of mono marriage when he was stationed away from the Marines. This would have been twenty years ago. Secondarys never have seen therapists, never worked on their issues, we didn’t know about their past when we met them and I think exploring poly was secondary’s wife’s way to rebuild trust. Secondary’s love language is physical touch and he said he regretted it and being away for a year had been hard. Fast forward to the secondary split up, with his feelings of loneliness at home five out of seven nights a week. Secondarys seem exceptionally challenged communicating, so much so that her moving out of the bedroom was never even discussed.
With primary, I was always there, and often asking if everything was ok. With secondary, I couldn’t give him more than the two nights we would have in a week. In the end, they are alike in the fact they are both cowards and they both wanted something different than I could give, I guess.
 
Hi JRPCandle,

For me, the thing that secondary did wrong was, not that he was seeing someone else, but rather, that he didn't tell you first and get your consent. That was where he strayed from the definition of polyamory, and did wrong by you. I suppose he figured you wouldn't give your consent, and so he didn't want to take that chance. But that doesn't make it okay.

I'm sorry you're going through this.
Sincerely,
When I think about why he did this, I guess I see a spectrum of possibilities.

On one end, the other woman came on to him and caught in the moment, it happened once and thereafter it was easy to happen again…that he robotically sought physicality when he was sad and lonely, never placing that intimacy in the same box as the passion and love we shared, never wanting or meaning to hurt me but perhaps just giving in to physical urges that he didn’t initiate and nothing more deep.

On the other end, he saw an opportunity in this openly swinging person and was aroused by the opportunity for both a side chick and whatever opportunities knowing her could offer…other playmates, perhaps? Perhaps that has happened too, and I just don’t know it. He got caught with his hands dirty, just like all those years ago, and he is banking on my attraction to him to make me weak so he can continue to be with me and do whatever he wants…he can have his cake and eat it too. He’d have to be careful next time, not mess with a coworker, not leave any trails…he sort of loves me, as much as a narcissist can.

Anything in between these two is possible, as well.

As for a poly future for any or all of us…

I think secondary would love it…I think he enjoys multiple partners.
I think primary is only happy if he is getting his, a quid pro quo is necessary and needs to be simultaneous, which is impossible to guarantee.
I think secondary’s wife cannot handle sharing a partner and doesn’t know what to do with the feelings of jealousy.
I think I have always been emotionally compromised and don’t know what a healthy relationship with more than one partner sounds and feels and looks like.
 
What sticks out to me at this point is the enormous lack of communication on everyone's part. The number one rule for polyamory or swinging or any kind of relationship is to communicate. Know yourself. Identify your emotions, needs, desires, hopes, etc. Then communicate them to your partner(s), using "I" statements. Then they listen until they understand, and show you they understand. Then they take a turn, to tell you what they really want or need. You listen patiently and respond when you fully understand them.

Only then can you negotiate or renegotiate your relationship configurations. A good therapist, or, in your case, a team of therapists, seems to be needed to help all of you speak up clearly about what you want. There is lying, cheating, unspoken desires, half-truths, people-pleasing going on all around. There is no way to move forward in a healthy manner until every single player does this work.

In the meantime, a great book to help with this is:

 
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So my hurt and broken status from primary’s affair balanced with new found electricity with secondary (plus knowing primary was in another relationship fulfilling things I didn’t for him) made it easier to survive in primary relationship. With secondary out of the picture, it’s hard to imagine a fulfilling and happy life that isn’t lonely. I’m trying to see if it’s possible, though.

You could THRIVE in your relationships rather than merely survive them.

If secondary has been your crutch to survive primary, I could see where imagining life without either would be hard. You haven't had that experience yet. But is "I might feel lonely for a time if I change things and leave" a good reason to stick with these two partners who cheat?

Secondary could not have poly dated her without a new rules discussion amongst the four of us…the original agreement was no one outside of the two marriages. They had had some experience with poly before us, we were newbies. It’s not so much that they demanded certain things, it’s that they expressed their desires and we went along for it, not really sure what we were looking for. Secondary’s wife moved out of the room without a word and secondary hoped the situation would somehow improve and she would change her mind. I don’t think he would ever have thought of asking to date outside because at first he hoped she would come back, then he was just sad and lonely and angry.

That's my point. Why cheat? If wife was emotionally abandoning him? What stopped him from saying that he wants to do couple counseling with wife, and if she's unwilling and you have limited time, that he wants to change the agreement so he can date outside the group to find companionship?

If they basically separated and are on the path to divorce? It's not a great time to date new people. But it does mean previous agreements may no longer apply on that side since the marriage is disbanding. So it's a natural time to rethink and renegotiate agreements on your side.

"Sad and lonely and angry" are emotions. I get they can be rough. But that's not a reason to cheat on agreements rather than renegotiating.


Secondary definitely wants me all to himself.

As for a poly future for any or all of us…

I think secondary would love it…I think he enjoys multiple partners.

So... he wants open just for him and not for you? Are you ok with that?

I get you might not be at a place to answer that right now. But something to mull over while you are in the period of deep reflection.

I am trying not to gloss things over, give it the due attention needed. But I am sure I am anyway. I will admit it’s painful and I have a lot of peripheral problems on my plate. I’m not sure I’ve ever been in such a low spot, which makes it hard to stay away from the person who makes me feel loved and at peace. I am trying to surround myself with friends and do things I enjoy. I am trying to keep a future without secondary as a possibility.

The waves definitely keep hitting!

Have you found online support groups for infidelity? Will you be seeing an individual counselor? Something else?

With primary, I was always there, and often asking if everything was ok. With secondary, I couldn’t give him more than the two nights we would have in a week. In the end, they are alike in the fact they are both cowards and they both wanted something different than I could give, I guess.

So... where do you land? Are you emotionally brave and resilient? Or emotionally cowardly?

Are you wanting something from these men they cannot give?

On the other end, he saw an opportunity in this openly swinging person and was aroused by the opportunity for both a side chick and whatever opportunities knowing her could offer…other playmates, perhaps? Perhaps that has happened too, and I just don’t know it. He got caught with his hands dirty, just like all those years ago, and he is banking on my attraction to him to make me weak so he can continue to be with me and do whatever he wants…he can have his cake and eat it too. He’d have to be careful next time, not mess with a coworker, not leave any trails…he sort of loves me, as much as a narcissist can.

Do you want to build your life around a narcissist?

I don’t want to be the woman who gets walked all over. I want to be the woman someone is proud to love and strives to honor that connection.

If this is the highest value? Wanting respectful and healthy relationships?

Are these two partners capable of providing it? Are they proud to love you and strive to honor that connection with you?

It doesn't sound like it to me. :(

I think I have always been emotionally compromised and don’t know what a healthy relationship with more than one partner sounds and feels and looks like.

Maybe after you get through the grief process.... it is time to learn?

You were planning on leaving primary anyway. Could still do that. And take it way slower with what to do about secondary and not just leap into building a life with him.

You might live on your own and only consider dating him if he starts and completes counseling FIRST and is ALSO at least a year past his divroce. Maybe two.

And in the meanwhile? You date because you aren't going to wait on bated breath either. You may look at him differently if you date other people who are HEALTHIER.

I'm not being mean ok? I'm just struggling with how to say this in words.

If primary was meh and cheated? Then secondary came along with all these love gestures that fell like water in the desert? I could see where it felt GOOD.

But you know things now... he cheated on his agreements with wife in the past, those two don't communicate, they are separating, etc. He can't deal with being on his own, doesn't ask for changes in agreements so he can polydate ethically. He just takes up with whoever hit on him so he can access a warm body and relinquish personal responsibility because he can blame the siren caught him in her spell... he's a narcissist and you are aware he'll sing you whatever song to keep you on the string...

Is this the kind of person who if you met today you would go "Yeah! Let's date him!" or not?

I think a time of living by yourself might be good. So you can work on figuring out what healthy looks like. You certainly have not had it with either primary OR secondary.

And YOU didn't get to date outside the quad yet. Did you think about that?

Maybe seeing more of the world and what other people are like would give you more perspective.

It was eye opening for you to date secondary and be like "Wow! Someone pays attention to me and does loving gestures!"

Maybe even more eye opening for you to date someone and be like "Wow! Someone HEALTHY pays attention to me, does loving gestures, is a person of their Word and keeps promises, communicates well and is not a narcissist!"

You kinda of remind me of my friend who left an abusive marriage. When she started dating she had such a low bar. Nice enough bar dudes, but poor drinking habits, could not keep a job, etc. And when friends asked her what she saw in them she'd go "He doesn't hit me."

One day I asked her "I get tricycle relationships. But after a point... That's all it takes to get to date you? He doesn't hit you? Could you think about raising the bar soon?"

Taking "healthy relationship" class run by the women's shelter was eye opening for her. You might check around and see if there are any near you. This was years ago, so by now they probably have online healthy relationship class options too.

No rush. I know you are grieving and have a lot of think about. But maybe keep a list of ideas to revisit later when you are more well?
 
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I glossed over something GG picked up on. I think this last post was the first time you mentioned that Secondary was a narcissist. If that's truly the case, there is no negotiating possible. His way, his feelings, his need for attention and sex are all that matters to him. He couldn't even be bothered to talk to you about wanting more companionship on the days you weren't available. Narcs need their "supply." They are able to mimic being loving, but they can't actually love, or care for, another human being. So he just went ahead and found a warm body to spend time with, because that is what HE wanted, and to hell with you.

I get heated about this subject because I dated a narc about a decade ago, for 2 1/2 years. He reeled me in hook, line and sinker. It was so traumatic when I realized who he really was and what I was dealing with. His behavior went from loving and helpful and meeting my needs for sex and adventure to humiliating me in public, lying to me, triangulating me with other lovers, gaslighting me, etc., etc.

You're definitely better off without Secondary. Spend time healing and learning about healthy relationships. Don't waste another moment on him, and do not let him try and reel you back in.
 
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Hi JRPCandle,

It sounds like this is a hard situation for all of you, with varying possibilities in terms of who did what and why. Your primary tried polyamory and was dissatisfied with how that turned out, so now he wants monogamy again. Would he change his mind about that if he met someone new?

As for your secondary, you seem to be aware of how very attached (attracted) you are to him, and that he could take advantage of you and you would still want to take him back. At the same time, you aren't sure whether you could ever be happy with your primary if your secondary was out of the picture. In the meantime, your secondary apparently doesn't want to share you, unless he has multiple partners too, does that sound about right?

All in all, it's quite a condundrum.
With sympathy,
Kevin T.
 
I wish everyone who is considering the triad or quad shape of polyamory would read this. It is so typical. A couple tries to both date the same person (usually a hot bi babe), or to "wife swap," to make things "equal" and "do this together." Then one partner in the mix loses interest in one of the other people, usually the new person, but sometimes they fall out of love with their original partner and shift their romantic feelings to the new and shiny person.

In a quad like yours, your h is feeling hurt from his breakup, and envious that you and the other guy are still in love. He thinks he is being the bigger man by not leaving you for his newer gf, but he also thinks if he is making the sacrifice, so should you. This is illogical.

In polyamory, if both partners agree to date others, there is absolutely no guarantee that both partners will find new partners at the same time, date them as often, and love them, and be loved, just as much. It's really silly to think this, when you look at it with a bit of a rational mindset. I know it can be hard to think rationally when you're hurting from a breakup, but there it is.

Right now, all you can do is stand your ground and say something like this: "I am polyamorous. I love you, and I love New Guy. It isn't fair to me or him to break up with each other just because you and New Woman broke up because she fell out of love with New Guy."

Of course, it's also silly of New Woman to insist your husband leave you for her. That wasn't part of the original deal. We call that cowgirling.

This is why most seasoned polyamorists recommend a couple never date as a unit. Each partner should seek to date others independently. Trying to date the same person (in a triad, usually FMF), or to swap wives (quad) almost always ends up with imbalance and more jealousy/envy, not less. It does not "protect the relationship" of the original couple(s). It just causes more damage in the long run.

I won't say there are never successful long term triads or quads. But they are EXTREMELY rare. They usually fizzle out after a few weeks, months, 2 years at most. Then there are often seismic aftershocks for years to come.
Hi
Looking for someone to talk with about a challenge we are having in a relatively new Poly/ open relationship.
Found your response in this thread and can tell that you are experienced and feel that you would have good insight.

I just found this message area and not sure yet how to navigate! If there is a way to friend or message directly that would be cool.
Thanks
Candie
52f
She her
 
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