practically in tears...

P

poobah123

New member
It has been an awful day for me. I am really confused and hurting, and looking for some advice.

Over the summer, I fell in love with my wife Sarah's best friend Sunny. We did not cheat on our spouses. Emotionally, yes, but not physically. Both our marriages had real problems. When you feel no love in your life, eventually someone else will fill it. I never stopped loving Sarah. It was just the love that Sunny and I felt was so strong that we didn't know what to do. Eventually, we came to the thought of leaving our spouses, but we just could not do that.

Time went on, and we discovered polyamory. I really took to this notion of loving more than one. Our spouses got involved. We all got together in the same room to talk and figure things out.

Since September, our spouses have let us have this gf/bf relationship. The spouses knew how we felt and were accepting of it. I've tried being just friends with Sunny, but it's not in the cards. The attraction on the emotional and spiritual level is just so strong. Recently I gave in to these feelings and said, since everyone seems okay, I'll let myself feel love and express my love, with words and friendly kisses only.

Well, Monday night, Sunny tells me she talked to her husband (Sam) about the physical side, and about maybe going on a date with me. After 14 hours of talking, he gave her complete unconditional love. He was accepting of this and wanted her to have whatever made her happy.

Needless to say, I had to ask the question of Sarah. She has joked that we looked like a cute couple. She said she would let me kiss and cuddle Sunny, so I thought maybe there was a chance. Well, it did not go well at all. Sarah wants me to drop Sunny from my life entirely. She says, if you want to show me unconditional love, you will do this.

I do love Sarah dearly, even more after the past six months, where our marriage has gotten far better. I just don't think I am strong enough to leave this other relationship. I just don't think I can lose Sunny from my life.

Tonight I am sad. My heart is in pain. I may have to leave Sunny entirely. Even if things go back to the way they were recently, I'm not sure I can be around her and just be friends. The feelings are just too great.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think I could love two people. I've never experienced chemistry this strong, and all of this from words and very little physical experience. The crazy thing is, Sarah does like Sunny. They are like best friends. But Sarah is also hurt by this.

Well, not much else to say. It's just a really sad night in store for me. Possibly worse. This is just a horrible feeling. :( :( :( :( :(
 



Other then doing like y'all did the first time: Getting everyone together and involved I do not really have a clue what you can do.

It really depends on how your Wife feels about it and if there is a group consensus from there on.



 
((Hugs))

I also asked my partner to give up his SO in the beginning. He was very sad, and although I know he really tried, he was never the same. It took a couple of months, but in the end, I told him to resume the relationship. That's when I really started learning about polyamory and how to make it a positive thing in our life, even though I didn't feel the need for another partner myself.

I started a blog about my experience (link in signature). It might be helpful for your wife to read it.

Our relationship is now very good and I have a great relationship with his SO (not sexual). I do think, however, that it was important to me that he did honestly try to be monogamous and relegate her back to just a friendship status. I suppose that was easier for him because she is long distance, although he still found having her just as a friend difficult, and for those few months had little contact.

I know it's going to be a difficult time for you, because we've been through it, but if your love for Sunny is really as strong as you say it is, I'm sure Sarah will see it and appreciate the efforts you've made to work on your relationship with her. Be patient. Let Sarah comfort you, and vice versa, and keep communicating honestly.

Don't be tempted to cheat. That would make everything much worse.
 
Good for you not cheating. Keep it that way or you will be fucked. ( ;) Sorry for the pun.)

I know you are in pain, but be patient and loving and keep talking. You might find there is a glimmer of hope. Cling to that.

My advice: do as Sarah asks for now. It sounds like she needs some time for everything to filter down. Let her know that you intend to keep in touch with Sunny, and that dropping her entirely is not an option for you.

You are allowed to set some boundaries. Sarah's boundary seems unreasonable for you, so don't agree to it. Keep negotiating with her about what would be acceptable. You might find that you never reach a point where you can find a good agreement, and might just have to compromise, and be willing to let some of your needs go. That remains to be seen, though. You are just starting out.

Maybe Sarah would like to join here too, or at the very least, look at some threads on similar experiences. Here in this forum alone there are many to read. There are also some really good blogs.

You are not alone. Know that. It's all very hard, but you have just begun and the future is not what you think it will be. Take it one step at a time and do so with as much love and compassion/consideration as you can. That will all come back to you.
 
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She says if you want to show me unconditional love you will do this.
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I'm always amazed by how people try to put conditions on unconditional love. It just does not work that way.

I understand the emotions she's struggling with, but that doesn't change the fact that unconditional love can't be forced or demanded. If you force or demand or manipulate someone into an action, their action is no longer unconditional love, it's obedience, plain and simple.

I just finished reading a book that really succinctly and lovingly explains this. It's not a book about polyamory. It might be helpful for Sarah in addressing the reality of dealing with her emotions constructively. It sounds like she's struggling with that, which is understandable. But why continue to struggle if you can fix the emotional hurts?

Real Love: The truth about finding unconditional love & fulfilling relationships by Greg Baer, M.D.


sage said:
I started a blog about my experience, and it might be helpful for your wife to read.

Don't be tempted to cheat. That will make everything much worse.
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Definitely great advice here from Sage. I would highly suggest reading Sage's blog with Sarah.

I also would reiterate, don't cheat. It's not worth it. Been there, done that. It will hurt you most and it's just not worth it. Great job on not doing that to begin with, by the way!

RP is right too-- relationships are a series of compromises. Sarah has stated what she wants to see happen. Now it's your turn to state what you want to see happen. Then the two of you negotiate on a compromise that is acceptable to you both. That's part of a healthy relationship. It's not a healthy relationship if either partner makes demands that impede the health (whether emotional, physical, sexual or psychological) of the other person. Both partners have to be able to meet their needs with whatever compromise is decided on.

If deleting the other love from your life is going to be destructive for you (and history has shown that most people find it destructive to turn away a loved one), then that isn't a reasonable compromise. It may be reasonable to agree to be only friends.

You and Sarah both need to really look at what your personal needs actually are, not just wants, then sit down to discuss them.

In my personal experience, having tried to cut my second love out of my life completely, it doesn't result in anything good. Not only does the person doing it end up miserable, but the person asking them to also ends up miserable, with the now miserable (and often resentful) spouse.
 
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Could somebody offer a real quick-and-dirty definition of the distinction between having a boundary and making a compromise?
 
I love to fall back on dictionaries for clarification of meanings, especially when it comes to relationships.

A boundary is defined as a demarcation of the "farthest limit," or something that limits, confines, restricts, or restrains. So, basically, you look at how much you can tolerate or live with and set that as a boundary, but it can change because you set it.

To restrain can mean to hold back, keep in check or under control, or repress. It can have positive and negative connotations, such as in restraining one's temper or restraining one's freedoms. It can mean to deprive someone of freedoms or to hamper or limit any general or specific activity, growth, or effect.

As far as compromising, I think the word is interesting. On one hand, it means "a settlement of differences by mutual concessions; an agreement reached by adjustment of conflicting or opposing claims, principles, etc., by reciprocal modification of demands," as well as the result of such a settlement. But it also can mean the endangerment of something, or to make a dishonorable or shameful concession, as in "compromising one's integrity," or compromising your location to an enemy, that sort of thing.

So, it would seem to me that compromising is pretty much a balancing act. You can compromise on where a boundary is, and how much restraint is needed, but you have to be careful that the compromise does no harm.

I think it's also helpful to consider the difference between the two words "surrender" and "sacrifice" in compromising and making boundaries. To surrender is to voluntarily yield, submit, or give oneself over to someone or something else. To sacrifice can include surrender but involves giving something up, and possibly even permit injury or disadvantage to oneself do so. I see surrender as a way to let go of old wants and adopting your partner's wants as your own, in a way to feed and nourish the relationship. Surrendering, to me, is something that encourages solidarity. It's like saying, "I want what you want." But sacrifice in negotiating a compromise leaves a sense of loss or missing something, and possibly encourages a little bit of martyrdom. It's a very subtle distinction, but important, nonetheless.

Okay, that wasn't really quick and dirty, but I've never been known to be brief.
 
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nycindie said:
I think it's also helpful to consider the difference between the two words "surrender" and "sacrifice" in compromising and making boundaries. To surrender is to voluntarily yield, submit, or give oneself over to someone or something else. To sacrifice can include surrender but involves giving something up, and possibly even permit injury or disadvantage to oneself do so. I see surrender as a way to let go of old wants and adopting your partner's wants as your own, in a way to feed and nourish the relationship. Surrendering, to me, is something that encourages solidarity. It's like saying, "I want what you want." But sacrifice in negotiating a compromise leaves a sense of loss or missing something, and possibly encourages a little bit of martyrdom. It's a very subtle distinction, but important nonetheless.
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Very good points here. I think when we compromise and negotiate boundaries, it's important to know where we are coming from.

As to the difference between boundaries and compromise, for me, a compromise is made at the beginning of boundary negotiation. Compromise is about the journey to get to a boundary that works for all. It seems at the beginning of boundary-setting, people need others to compromise so that they can catch up. Sometimes that means not engaging in activities, not talking to someone, spending more time elsewhere, until the boundary line can be moved again and a boundary be moved towards. Compromising with one's desires, so to speak.

In this way, to me, a compromise is meant to be temporary. It has happened (in cases like my own) where a compromise is all that can be done and, in this case, surrendering to it is the only option. For me, that has meant going through a time of sacrifice to get there. I waffle back and forth with that still, and don't know if that will ever change, just as I don't know if the compromise I have made will ever change and a boundary be found.
 
Well, after the initial shock, my wife Sarah has calmed down. She spoke with Sam, and he explained his reasoning. She was upset with him because, throughout all this, when we were going to leave our spouses, he stuck by Sunny. Now by Sam changing his view, Sarah felt like she had nobody to to stand by her.

She also spoke with Sunny. The great thing is the two of them get along very well. Sunny seems to bring the best out in Sarah. My wife has always had social issues and such, nothing major. But she has made huge strides in life with Sunny's help. She has friends now, joins clubs, etc. It's just great. Anyway, Sunny explained exactly how she felt about me, and how she wanted to be able to express the affection with something more than just words. She talked about quality alone time.

Sarah understood her. I suppose the two of them share something very special, their love for me. Sarah said she would be open to listening and understanding. She said she might be okay with some kissing in the future, but no idea when. The two of them told each other they loved each other. The call went really well. In fact, Sarah and I had a major sex romp right after the call. She said having someone else into me turns her on.

Sarah has started reading about polyamory. Her main problem with it is, when does it end? Meaning, If A is married to B and they both have others (C&D) then (C&D) have others (E&F) and so on. To tell you the truth, I don't know how to reply to this. I could use some suggestions.

Here is the great part-- after talking about this, we woke this morning and I asked her what she was thinking about. She said, "I am trying to figure out how I can be okay with you having a GF," which I thought was really loving of her. Then she also said, "Show me how you would kiss her," and I did. She kind of giggled it off. She also asked about herself.

Things are better in the sense that I don't think Sarah will force me to not be in contact with Sunny. I think she is trying to digest and understand this. To tell you the truth, I am, as well.

She also brought up "unconditional" love. She said, "If you loved me, you would move me to warmer weather," which I really don't want to do. I didn't really know what to say, other than I didn't want to, and we could compromise. She agreed. I suppose she was using this as an example.

I guess I have a lot of thinking to do. Thanks for all your kind support. I have a feeling I will be around these parts very often.
 
poobah123 said:
So my wife has started reading about polyamory. Her main problem with it is, when does it end? Meaning, If A is married to B and they both have others (C&D) then (C&D) have others (E&F) and so on. To tell you the truth, I don't know how to reply to this. I could use some suggestions.
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You might want to read Opening Up by Tristan Taormino, if you haven't already. It contains good info about poly in general, and many of the possible configurations. Don't assume that because you want a second partner, that everyone in the mix will start taking on more and more partners exponentially. It will be whatever you make it. The relationships can even be closed, if desired by all. Poly people can be involved with mono people who do not have any other partners. But there are many much more experienced people than I here who can tell you about that, as I've only been exploring this a few months. Read this forum some more. Have Sarah come here and ask questions, too.
 
People use the terms 'primary', 'secondary' and 'tertiary' to mean rather different things, and some don't like them at all, but due to time and energy constraints, possible additional partners rarely are all primaries, live together in the same house etc.
 
poobah123 said:
So my wife has started reading about polyamory. Her main problem with it is, when does it end? Meaning, If A is married to B and they both have others (C&D) then (C&D) have others (E&F) and so on. To tell you the truth, I don't know how to reply to this. I could use some suggestions.
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It can be as open or as closed as you make it. Some people are in closed Vs, say, with a woman as a hinge, and her two lovers may be monoamorous, or polyamorous, but not interested in pursuing other relationships.

Or, you may have your primary, you both have secondaries, and those secondaries might have primaries of their own, or not.

In my own case, I have a primary. I am a woman and my primary is a woman. We are both bi/pansexual. Currently we both have secondaries. My secondary has no other lovers. My gf's secondary, a pansexual man, has a live-in gf, but they are into BDSM and do play parties, people they do kink with and may or may not have sex with. We all practice safer sex, of course.

My secondary is a very busy man, though, and we only get together, on average, once a month. So, I date others, looking for a guy or a woman with more free time. I find my other dates on the dating site OK Cupid.
 
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