Redpepper's journey

[redpepper]

Just a hello update.

AJ is picking up LB tomorrow and making dinner for our family! Feeling so loved by my long time friend.

On another note: Feeling quite forgotten today. Amazing how people leave your life and don't look back when you make choices they don't understand and judge as being the wrong choice. I feel shrugged off. It makes me wonder what is said or thought behind my back. I wish people would be more up front and honest. I prefer to hear all views. They think it best to be passive aggressive and say the very least in the hopes I go away. I'd say I didn't care if I could, but I can't, I'm deeply hurt and don't know what to do with that. Mono says I should let it go. He's the king of letting go. I, not so much.

 

[monkeystyle]

Mono is giving good advice. People make judgements, constantly (all of us). Their silence and letting go of you is really a communication by itself. What more need be said?

 

[redpepper]

Mono is giving good advice. People make judgements, constantly (all of us). Their silence and letting go of you is really a communication by itself. What more need be said?

Yes. Walk away. Got it. Doing that is harder task but I will. Eventually. Thanks.

 

[redpepper]

Hello Poly friends.

Little catch up.

I have been enjoying life and taking things as they come. Everything at the house is really good and we are all well settled. I enjoy each day and have no complaints about our new arrangements. We continue to make plans, live each day in our usual routines and love each other in our own unique ways.

I have been sorting out my relationships for the most part these days and that has had it's ups and downs. Creating friendships that are lasting and meaningful and that fulfill me has been difficult. I have a different idea of what friendship means than most after years of poly and I am working to express that, request what I want from others and figure out boundaries that make sense and are reasonable and comfortable. I don't want more partners but I do want to be close in ways that make me feel good.

I am not the sort to curb who I am around another and am finding more and more that I am a loner and prefer to make new friends and stay on the periphery of friendship circles rather than get overly involved. Is that a result of years of intense partnerships with many people whereby I was involved in many family circles? Possibly. Likely. Still, new friends have cropped up and I continue to be pleased to see where those friendships go.

I am enjoying what RP likes these days and taking note of what I can do in life that is without others rather than with them. I have a sense of belonging to those around me. I am enjoying the closeness of my inner circle and feeling like I belong.

I continue to see Brad although not as often as he doesn't live near me, has interests that are not mine, has different friends and I create tension in his life with others. He has his own life to sort out and I remain a constant confident and supporter when he needs me. For some reason we are attached to each other in ways that don't make sense to most so I struggle through and try and make it easier for all involved. I find that I am not as easily included in his greater life and that is fine with me but makes it more difficult to spend time with him. I hope that is temporary.

I have been spending time with Leo again and that has been really great for both of us I think. Slowly we sort out what happened between us and are developing a new relationship based on what we have learned and how we have grown in the two years we didn't speak to each other. We have gone over what happened, made our apologies and forge something new now. He is becoming someone who is close again and I am finding that he is included in my sense of belonging and being valued in the world.

My dearest friend right now is my ex wife. She has moved back to my city and I see her very often. She has a natural way of making life seem fun and light. She keeps my spirits up with her unending ability to just be there... even when I think that no one would be able to be around me for one second longer she seems to breeze through that and take me at face value. I am so grateful that she constantly renews my belief that I am loved and valued, even if I don't feel it from others and my negative self talk says otherwise. She simply will not stand for that and is confused that I would for one moment believe I am not valued by many...

The main thing I am doing these days is deciding not to over think and to let things resonate within me each moment. It amazes me just how many things are out of my hands and I have become involved in a conscious effort to just let things go and spend my time looking inside me instead. I have a lot of time these days and often find myself bored and frustrated. I am using the time to regroup and feel closer and closer to pouncing on a new phase of my life with renewed energy and insight.

Really the only thing in life is that there is no defining anything and that nothing is absolute. Poly or not is not what is relevant any more... what is going on right now and what I can do to create the feeling of safety, family, contentment and simplicity is. Fluidity is everything and there is no fail safe answer to anything when I decide to let life be fluid. Flaky, I know, but it works for me. Even if it confuses the hell out of those closest to me.

Hugs to those I love to share with here and that take the time to read. I welcome messages, updates and shared thoughts. Hugs to all.

 

[SNeacail]

This sounds very much like where I've been at these last couple years and I'm happier because of it. You definitely sound much better than you did a few months back and it makes me smile.

 

[sage]

Hey Redpepper
It is always good to read your posts and see how you are. I really appreciate the depth of your openness.

I'm giving polyamory my most serious shot to date due to the fact that my partner is dating my sister. Interesting times. My current thinking is that poly people should be loved in a way that is different to the mono version of love and maybe the fact that we tend to love as we would want to be loved contributes to the angst associated with mono/poly relationships. Don't know where this will all lead but we will see.

Happy Easter.

xx Sage

 

[redpepper]

Hey Redpepper
It is always good to read your posts and see how you are. I really appreciate the depth of your openness.

I'm giving polyamory my most serious shot to date due to the fact that my partner is dating my sister. Interesting times. My current thinking is that poly people should be loved in a way that is different to the mono version of love and maybe the fact that we tend to love as we would want to be loved contributes to the angst associated with mono/poly relationships. Don't know where this will all lead but we will see.

Happy Easter.

xx Sage

oh wow, haven't you come full circle.

Yes I think there is something to be said for that. Mono love is entirely different and just as valid. Poly love comes from a sense of seperate yet together. Mono from together yet seperate I think.... vaguely. Different on the inside. It's possible to seek either out at a time and be fine with either.

Life changes and needing love another way for a time is totally valid I think. It's all part of the human experience. I find it hard to talk about poly only now. Emotionally I love both ways and depending on where I am at in my life journey... different ways fit. I talk about relationship instead. As it pertains to certain people. Emotionally I am poly though. The act of relationship is different altogether. I could be both, either or neither.

 

[redpepper]

In the past weeks I must of written this three times. Really though I am doing pretty good. happy, healthy, enjoying my uncomplicated quiet life. I am not sure why I have struggled but here it is.... A post.

It's been over a year since my life changed and I left the network of partners and friends I created for myself after I suddenly hit a wall one night of realization. I suddenly woke up for my poly haze and found myself again. I have been living with LB, PN, and Mono for several years now and we continue our adventure as a family. I chose them and now that I have no need to latch on to them for dear life in the hopes I could salvage what I believed I was losing I see that I made the right choices. Life has settled and love has grown in new and surprising ways. My loving heart has expanded again and I am finding new ways to love and be loved that bring new people into my life and new joy.

Everything is as it should be. PN told me today I shouldn't feel ashamed of my feelings and that I just need time to heal some wounds. Mono tells me to let go of the past and just be. I agree with both of them and in this moment have done just that. This is where I find strength to write today.

I feel I have had a huge shift in my trust and of others and that has been surprisingly freeing in a fearful way. Part of this is to do with the result of not feeling part of something I helped to create in my personal life I think. People I held close have shown sides I did not know before and it has created disappointment in me. My values have proven to be different than many of those around me and I just can't seem to accept that so I have shut myself out.

Shutting the door and stepping away from what I have learned from poly (for now) has suited me. It has meant being more brave than ever as I see the community I loved confused about my choices and sometimes unaccepting and judgmental. It seems that choosing not to identify does not keep me from people's belief that I am now mono (People do like to place people in boxes don't they?). I suspect it is just way to scary to believe someone would be brave enough to skirt the edge of all identifying communities by not identifying. No rules, no members and no attachments. For me it works, but it seems that if I am not identifying I am not able to be pinned down and therefore not accessible some how. All I can do is still be here, still be present and still show my face even though I am terrified of rejection.

Now I search for new horizons and go toward where I am appreciated and loved. I find it interesting that without expectations and because I have let go of reaching out to others and instead letting them reach out to me that I am finding that the strangest people come out of the wood work to connect. Not people I thought would but people who are supportive of whatever path I take, who appreciate my skills and personality and who are encouraging of all I do. Through the pain of loss and the joy of creating a solid loving foundation again with Mono, J and PN at the root, I am maturing and more wise than ever. It's a humbling thing to look back as see the mistakes and naivety I have had, but in time I will be stronger for it and forever changed into something better.

 

[SNeacail]

 

[redpepper]

Just a little catch up;

I have been welcoming a new woman in our midst as PN has fallen in love and is head over heals for a married woman with two kids. His NRE has been a pain in my ass as NRE usually is but I am managing.

He announced he wanted to leave our house and situation about two months ago and the rug was ripped from underneath me. Fortunately for me I have been through far worse in the last years and felt no heartache over the end of an era, just fear. Fear of not being able to make it on my own (Mono isn't interested in committing beyond the moment). That abandonment issue I dealt with has been pushed to the edge far beyond what I ever thought possible. And I am still here and still okay. Proud of it.

I went to the bank, made myself familiar with my financial situation. Got on top of the worst case scenario and decided to beat my fear and rejoice in this final closure to my poly situations. A place of my own, my own money and time and me and my boy together. Sad, but mine.

The biggest worry was for LB. The boy is 11 and is not the sort to accept change such as moving into a condo with his mother part time. I was mostly worried for him. He has had the best that family can be and I don't want anything short of that for him. Still, not within my control.

This summer has been unpleasant yet I feel the best ever in terms of strength and perseverance. The unpleasantness came from months of taking care of PN's needs in his relationship and health. I didn't manage well and had to accept help a few times. Hard work for me. I am grateful to all who showed up to help me around the house and emotionally. Mostly Mono, who has struggled to understand PN for some time. He has been as patient as I.... Unfortunately part of the garden died, but I am confident it will come back again. Symbolic?

All that being said there has been more change; PN, now seeing things differently, no longer wants to leave.... I am left with one foot out the door and the door has slammed shut. I feel tossed one way and another with his rollercoaster of emotions and lack of ability to see clearly what is going on in his life. It isn't avoidable. I live with him and he is the father of my child. I must remain on a steady track for my kid.

I remain part of the poly community and maintain the friendships I have made and the one and only group I facilitate. It suits me. I am comfortable and hope with my wisdom I can be helpful and inspiring to others who are making "unique to them" choices. I hope to nurture the friendships I have and keep it simple and casual. All about fun with no drama. So far so good.

Off to prepare for a Canadian Thanks Giving dinner with my new metamour (?) that includes my mother in law and parents. They did it for me, my turn. I have become the beacon of solace and reassurance for them as PN plows through his announcements of change and out of control emotions. Sigh.... Looking forward to NRE ending.

I put people through this at one time. I will do my best to remain focused on the prize; a content life with health and happiest for all.

 

[SNeacail]

Good grief, NRE whiplash

I went to the bank, made myself familiar with my financial situation. Got on top of the worst case scenario and decided to beat my fear and rejoice in this final closure to my poly situaions. a place of my own, my own money and time and me and my boy together.

Good for you! I too found out that getting on top of stuff and trying to figure out how to be independent went along way to steaming my fear and anxiety. In my case it turned out to not be necessary, but I'm still pursuing certain things (schooling, house repairs, etc), because you never know what may happen in the future. It's made me happier to know I could be on my own, if I had to be.

Hugs and prayers for things to settle down and become more workable.

 

[redpepper]

Thanks SNeacail. hugs to you and yours. Thanks for writing.

 

[sage]

Hi Redpepper

Best wishes for your season of change

We're going through a similar thing at the moment. I've come to the conclusion polyamory doesn't work in my life and so Mike (Zen) and I are going our separate ways next year when our lease is up. Mike limited his poly activity for my sake and now he's fully immersed in it. He might be a bit further along his journey than PN, he's had NRE with a couple of partners but none of the relationships were long-lived and have hurt him. Now I'm just trying to be there for him without trying to make things right for him (which of course I can't).

I'm still preparing for life on my own, which is a first for me. It's an exciting feeling which I can highly recommend but then I haven't got any children at home so I know it's different for you

Sage

 

[redpepper]

Hi Redpepper

Best wishes for your season of change

We're going through a similar thing at the moment. I've come to the conclusion polyamory doesn't work in my life and so Mike (Zen) and I are going our separate ways next year when our lease is up. Mike limited his poly activity for my sake and now he's fully immersed in it. He might be a bit further along his journey than PN, he's had NRE with a couple of partners but none of the relationships were long-lived and have hurt him. Now I'm just trying to be there for him without trying to make things right for him (which of course I can't).

I'm still preparing for life on my own, which is a first for me. It's an exciting feeling which I can highly recommend but then I haven't got any children at home so I know it's different for you

Sage

So sorry Sage, I completely missed this before.

Thanks for writing.

Life after poly huh? Its a concept I don't think is discussed often. I am not sure where I am at with the whole thing. One thing I do know is that I have been hurt badly too and it has put me off entirely for now.

Poly as a concept, I support it! I don't think a person can really know they are poly until the joy they feel of many loves and a big tribe comes crumbling down and they are left with rubble and STILL want to date other people regardless. It takes a stronger person than I.

I think my place in the world should be to be foccussed on my boy now and how much I can achieve on my own. You know, I look forward more to my time alone than with anyone else now. Other people are fun but unpredictable. I am solid and know myself. I prefer my own company.

If I was ever poly identified again it would be as solo poly. I have strong feelings that could lead to anything with others and I choose to not go there. Anything I need I can get from Mono or find it in a friend. The whole thing about many partners fill all my needs is not at all where I am at anymore. I can fill my needs on my own thanks. Ha!

Hugs to you Sage, please tell me more of your story? Or send a link so I can read more?

Sage, forgive me but are we fb friend? I forget names to real names here?. Ha! So bad with that. Remind me? Thanks

 

[sage]

"I don't think a person can really know they are poly until the joy they feel of many loves and a big tribe comes crumbling down and they are left with rubble and STILL want to date other people regardless."

Yeah well this is Mike, kinda. He's thinks his crumbling relationships have all been about bad timing and that the perfect women are still out their to make him happy. Like you I think meeting ones own needs is a far more interesting journey. I'm still going through lots of sadness around letting him go. It was his birthday yesterday and he primarily celebrated it with someone else. I shed a lot of tears but I know I'm doing the right thing for me. I am no longer going to open up my heart so easily to have it battered and bruised, or broken as in Mike's case.

I'm learning to love alone time too. I love the thought of it but when I'm actually deep in it I can freak out just a little. It's a learning process, an undoing of an unhealthy motto that I took on board from childhood that said "I need men, I'm not good enough to do life without their support"


So interesting that we have both come to similar places.

Sage

 

[redpepper]

A new year and a new age as I turned 45 last month and celebrated six years with Mono. (That is six years here too!) It's funny to say that as I don't feel I am "with" anyone, but whatever... it is what it is.

Starting the new year off with the resolution to be so incredibly NOT busy that I actually get bored enough to listen to the sound of my own, single, beautiful heart. I have little to no interest in hearing anyone else's as I feel I have reached a place of enlightenment some how and have no need for others to be in my life. I CHOOSE to be with them instead.

Why? Because a door has been opened to a new beginning and I am strong in who I am and what I have to offer. I am slow to achieve my goals usually but I am determined and always get there in the end. I have to be careful as I am my own worst enemy. I intend to stop asking questions and listen for answers this year in the hopes to destroy my enemy self.

In the hopes that I can move past the last of my fear of rejection and abandonment and live in the light of complete freedom from others judgement and assumptions I have decided to push myself to face some fears and go to poly events again. It's a good thing to do I think as it was the poly community that forced me to look inward to begin with. Isn't it just like poly to make us face ourselves. I was not excempt from that. Who knows, maybe some new friends will appear from going back to the beginning.... actually, they already have... shhhht. Amazing what happens when I just stop and look around at who is around me.

Man I feel on top of the world this year. Listening; entently and excitedly.

Oh. Everyone here is good. PN is loving his new lady and we have worked out a schedule of weekly events and happenings. Mono is well, Mono... my life revolves mostly around LB as he has become a wonderful young man who I both admire and am so proud to of raised to this point. Man I am doing a good job!

Spending time with Leo, a new man who I have grown fond of (that's another story. If I remember I will write some time about that. Not a focus right now), two very special new lady friends, my ex wife/bestie, many other joint friend of Mono and I and mostly MEEEEEEE! Mostly me.

Hope you are all well in love and life.

 

[redpepper]

I wrote this piece below recently and was quite proud of my accumulated thoughts. still accumulating.

Context: I am one of the most loyal people I know so I wanted to figure out what it meant to me in terms of other peoples loyalty to me and what loyalty means to others. I was surprised to find it was not a hugely valued attribute in relationships. At least by the others that wrote in the thread anyway.

This is what I want to remember:

"In a nut shell... I believe that loyalty is honouring and revering another's journey as long as it isn't at the expense of mine. Loyalty is about admiring another without believing them to be above others.

I am loyal until it no longer serves my life and becomes a detriment to the loyalty I have to myself. In other words I am loyal to the values I have of integrity and honouring others more than the loyalty I have toward specific people. No one is above what is best for me.

Honour and loyalty go together somewhat for me, in that loyalty is an extension of honour. I think honouring others is a constant thing whereas loyalty is for closer relationships. I personally chose who I am loyal to. It shouldn't be expected that I am loyal to someone. Loyalty is earned. I think honouring others is something to be expected and isn't earned ... I commit to honouring others even if my loyalty to them has ended.

There is more...those are my first thoughts.

My struggle with thinking about this is because of the unravelling I need to do first. It's hard to think of the loyalty I have for many at once. It's easy to talk about loyalty to an institution or job or to specific people... but where all people I am close to are concerned it becomes complicated. It becomes entangled with my values and the integrity I wish to honour.

I have noticed that within the relationships I have there is a sense of loyalty that others have toward me. I have noticed that the loyalty shown is not at the expense of loyalty they have toward others or at the expense of their own values of honouring and respecting another's life journey. I have been wondering how that works.

The people I am close to aren't loyal like a dog is to it's owner, only focussing on my interpretation of my life and what I say and do. There is no obeying in that loyalty. It's more of an observant loyalty where they listen and give feed back and have my back yet don't feel the need to take a side, to be convinced of my value in their lives or to convince me of something so I will fit what they want to be loyal to. I love that and pick people like that to share my life with. I think I am like that too. I struggle to put words to it though... part of the untangling maybe."

 

[redpepper]

More thoughts to think about and remember:

"I have been over and over definitions and descriptions of poly over the years and it seems to me that the only thing to rely on in defining poly is that it is being drawn to many loves and the only thing that defines monogamy is that it is being drawn to one. Everything else is vague and personal to the person who identifies as one or the other.

Solo poly, I find, is something of an opposite to traditional monogamy in that it focuses entirely on the self while loves are outside of that. Traditional monogamy is based on co-dependence and ownership of another by choice and agreement. Solo poly doesn't have a requirement or need to be defined by others whereas traditional monogamy does.

I am thinking that there can just as easily be traditional poly that focuses on "group" ownership and co-dependency as there can be solo monogamy where someone could be connected to themselves before anyone else and connect to one particular other as an addition to their lives."

Deborah Anapol talks in her book "Love without Limits" about Old Paradigm Relationships (OPR) where people are in it to serve the relationship and New Paradigm Relationships (NPR) where people are in it to serve the individuals. "In it to serve the relationship" or "in it to serve me" is the key to all it for me I think I would be more quick to ask myself the question of what purpose my relationship serves, from here on in, of any relationship I am in.

 

[YouAreHere]

I wrote this piece below recently and was quite proud of my accumulated thoughts. still accumulating.

Context: I am one of the most loyal people I know so I wanted to figure out what it meant to me in terms of other peoples loyalty to me and what loyalty means to others. I was surprised to find it was not a hugely valued attribute in relationships. At least by the others that wrote in the thread anyway.

I saw that thread, actually, but every time I looked at it, I didn't have enough time to give it proper thought, and by the time I was able to reply, it had evaporated from my brain. D'oh.

Loyalty is a concept that is hard to articulate for me. My blog thread here has had numerous posts that address my sister's difficulties. I love her. I'll stand by her when she truly needs it (which I guess I equate to "loyalty"), but I won't be taken advantage of (and it's tough to be the "bad guy" when you feel someone's not as needy as they claim to be, or they've made awful choices you don't want to support).

As for finding a nice group of words, though, that conveys what I feel, I sort of get this emotional blob of a feeling that I need to take time and find the proper way of communicating... if that makes sense. It seems you've got your own unraveling to do, anyway, so it sort of points to "loyalty" being a more complex concept than it would seem on the surface.

I value loyalty and integrity (especially integrity), but not BLIND loyalty. You get blind loyalty from pets, not people. And, to me, sometimes loyalty means letting people suffer the effects of their actions, but still being there for them as/after they do. But again, it's an emotional hodgepodge trying to come out as words. After only one cup of coffee, too.

Nice, chewy food for thought!

 

[SNeacail]

Solo poly, I find, is something of an opposite to traditional monogamy in that it focuses entirely on the self while loves are outside of that. Traditional monogamy is based on co-dependence and ownership of another by choice and agreement. Solo poly doesn't have a requirement or need to be defined by others whereas traditional monogamy does.

I am thinking that there can just as easily be traditional poly that focuses on "group" ownership and co-dependency as there can be solo monogamy where someone could be connected to themselves before anyone else and connect to one particular other as an addition to their lives."

I find these views interesting, never actually thought about it this way - then again I have trouble putting words to ideas sometimes. I'm in the process of trying to help my husband smash all "traditional" thoughts to relationships and sexuality as he's struggling with coming to terms with himself. I find that the more we throw out all traditional labels and just focus on what is working for either of us, the happier we are. It sounds selfish, to focus on what is really making me happy or unhappy, but how else am I going to clue my partner(s) in when there's a problem and vice versa.

When we treat our marriage like a business partnership instead of ownership of each other things work much better, even if it is co-dependent.