Rules, what rules?
- Thread starter Farmgirl
- Start date
River
Well-known member
Believe it or not, my partner and I don't really have "rules" per se.
Of course, he doesn't want me to pass on any STDs to him. So proper precautions are expected there.
He'd rather that I met with folks, when meeting with them, outside our home for the first meeting or two.
He'd like me to use proper caution and not get mixed up with anyone who is going to be more trouble than they are worth.
But he trusts me to do these things so much that it's really never a topic of conversation. Well, almost never. He did express discomfort when I brought someone to our home (for massage exchange) without having first met with him out in public. I rarely do such a thing, actually, but it seemed like an okay exception at the time.
Basically, what we have INSTEAD of a list of rules to follow is an understanding that we should both endeavor to treat one another with respect and kindness... consideration. And if anything challenging comes up we talk about it. That's pretty much it.
Most rules I've heard of folks coming up with around open relationships or polyamory seem to arise out of a desire to manage jealousy or anxiety around "sharing" (of persons, not things). But we don't seem to have much anxiety or fear or jealousy to manage -- if any. I have none. And he has so little that it just doens't seem to be a problem in any way. Generally, he's happy for and with me when I find someone else to connect with affectionately. So we don't really seem to have need for special rules.
Of course, he doesn't want me to pass on any STDs to him. So proper precautions are expected there.
He'd rather that I met with folks, when meeting with them, outside our home for the first meeting or two.
He'd like me to use proper caution and not get mixed up with anyone who is going to be more trouble than they are worth.
But he trusts me to do these things so much that it's really never a topic of conversation. Well, almost never. He did express discomfort when I brought someone to our home (for massage exchange) without having first met with him out in public. I rarely do such a thing, actually, but it seemed like an okay exception at the time.
Basically, what we have INSTEAD of a list of rules to follow is an understanding that we should both endeavor to treat one another with respect and kindness... consideration. And if anything challenging comes up we talk about it. That's pretty much it.
Most rules I've heard of folks coming up with around open relationships or polyamory seem to arise out of a desire to manage jealousy or anxiety around "sharing" (of persons, not things). But we don't seem to have much anxiety or fear or jealousy to manage -- if any. I have none. And he has so little that it just doens't seem to be a problem in any way. Generally, he's happy for and with me when I find someone else to connect with affectionately. So we don't really seem to have need for special rules.
zigzag
New member
We don't have any rules per se either, other than safe sex (when/as appropriate) and honest and open communication and we both expect to equally contribute to the household chores etc regardless of demands of relationships...but we always did..
However, when we started off we did sort of have boundaries to see how things worked. So at first visits with other partners where a bit time limited starting with a few hours, moving to an evening, them a night, then 24 hrs then weekends so we were eventually at the point where we could have holidays if we wanted. This was to manage any possible problems or jealousy or loneliness and so we could get used to a change in lifestyle, so we took "baby steps" If I recall that was the advice I received on here.
Oh...and no financial involvement with partners without it being discussed and being open and honest about the costs of any relationship thing such as a holiday or trip so we can plan to make sure its affordable before committing...but again we would do that anyway for ourselves.
However, when we started off we did sort of have boundaries to see how things worked. So at first visits with other partners where a bit time limited starting with a few hours, moving to an evening, them a night, then 24 hrs then weekends so we were eventually at the point where we could have holidays if we wanted. This was to manage any possible problems or jealousy or loneliness and so we could get used to a change in lifestyle, so we took "baby steps" If I recall that was the advice I received on here.
Oh...and no financial involvement with partners without it being discussed and being open and honest about the costs of any relationship thing such as a holiday or trip so we can plan to make sure its affordable before committing...but again we would do that anyway for ourselves.
Last edited:
Greetings Farmgirl,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.
I looked at your other thread, and responded there briefly. Basically, there should be no double standards, your husband ought to abide by his own rules. Tell him this.
The rules in my polycule -- a closed V -- are that none of us will have sex with anyone outside the V. Now, it is possible that a new fourth person could join our V, changing it into an N or somesuch, but that would be an involved process. I guess that sums up the rules we have.
If you have any more questions, I would be glad to answer.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"
Notes:
There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!
Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.
Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.
If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.
Welcome aboard!
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.
I looked at your other thread, and responded there briefly. Basically, there should be no double standards, your husband ought to abide by his own rules. Tell him this.
The rules in my polycule -- a closed V -- are that none of us will have sex with anyone outside the V. Now, it is possible that a new fourth person could join our V, changing it into an N or somesuch, but that would be an involved process. I guess that sums up the rules we have.
If you have any more questions, I would be glad to answer.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"
Notes:
There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!
Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.
Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.
If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.
Welcome aboard!
vinsanity0
Active member
Rules are for suckers.
In the beginning of my open marriage we made all kinds of rules. They were impossible to follow, especially, sadly, mine. I know now that we were trying to preserve our marriage by controlling what the other one did. That didn't work and we had to rethink our philosophy.
We did have some agreements, but no actual rules after that.
In the beginning of my open marriage we made all kinds of rules. They were impossible to follow, especially, sadly, mine. I know now that we were trying to preserve our marriage by controlling what the other one did. That didn't work and we had to rethink our philosophy.
We did have some agreements, but no actual rules after that.
River
Well-known member
How do / did "rules" differ from "agreements"?
zigzag
New member
I suppose that is a tough one. We don't have rules but I suppose we do have agreements too. You can see rules as You Must do A or You Must not do B. From what I have seen and experienced that can be quite controlling like "you must not do sex act X" or "You must not sleep over"
I suppose agreements are softer so if one of us says "I'll be home Tuesday Eve" we try and keep to that promise. Or if one us says "I'll let you know if X or Y happens" then again we hope/expect that to happen. But none of those "agreements" impinge on the other person's ability to live their life or to control their behaviour. I also suppose the difference is that if an agreement is broken the impact is not the same as if a rule is broken. If my partner says "I'll be home Tuedsay Eve" and then can't be because some circumstance or other and that's communicated then that's cool, it may be inconvenient and if it happened regularly I'd want to talk about it perhaps to make a better agreement, ...but if you have a rule that says "you CANNOT do Sex act X" and then someone does X then I can only see the rule maker being hurt/angry etc.
JaneQSmythe
Well-known member
We talk about this a lot here - rules, agreements, boundaries. On the surface (and in practice) there may not seem to be a whole lot of difference. I think the concepts also have a lot to do with respect and consent - as well as the intent behind them.
Mostly I see boundaries as rules that I have for myself - I will not allow myself to participate in a relationship that is abusive, for instance. Agreements are things that, well, people agree on - We will use condoms with outside partners (the flip-side is, of course, until they are inside partners - which may be a point of contention). Rules, on the other hand, are restrictions that are imposed upon someone, that they only nominally agree to in order to be "allowed" to do some other thing. There seems to be a reluctance implied there.
Perhaps thinking in terms of agreements as being "explicit expectations" - I expect my partners to respect my boundaries. I expect my partners to inform me of changes in circumstances that affect my health or my relationships. I expect my partners come to me with conflicts before they get out of control. I expect my partners to be home when they say they will - or let me know when that can't/won't happen.
Some of these are things that I expect in any healthy relationship. Some of these are specific to the person or situation. Everyone thinks that their expectations are reasonable - but if you don't discuss them then they are not "agreements" because you never actually found out if your expectations line up.
If my partner repeatedly fails to meet my expectations then is it because my expectations are unrealistic (like expecting Dude to ever be on time for anything, even once?) or because I haven't articulated them (if I suddenly started expecting my partners to buy me chocolate and flowers then I better tell them, as I have never once told them I wanted chocolate and flowers! 'Cuz I don't.) or because they seriously don't care (a different matter all together!)?
People are not mind-readers. Sometimes we change our minds. Often our needs change. This is why "communicate" is a poly-mantra!
Mostly I see boundaries as rules that I have for myself - I will not allow myself to participate in a relationship that is abusive, for instance. Agreements are things that, well, people agree on - We will use condoms with outside partners (the flip-side is, of course, until they are inside partners - which may be a point of contention). Rules, on the other hand, are restrictions that are imposed upon someone, that they only nominally agree to in order to be "allowed" to do some other thing. There seems to be a reluctance implied there.
Perhaps thinking in terms of agreements as being "explicit expectations" - I expect my partners to respect my boundaries. I expect my partners to inform me of changes in circumstances that affect my health or my relationships. I expect my partners come to me with conflicts before they get out of control. I expect my partners to be home when they say they will - or let me know when that can't/won't happen.
Some of these are things that I expect in any healthy relationship. Some of these are specific to the person or situation. Everyone thinks that their expectations are reasonable - but if you don't discuss them then they are not "agreements" because you never actually found out if your expectations line up.
If my partner repeatedly fails to meet my expectations then is it because my expectations are unrealistic (like expecting Dude to ever be on time for anything, even once?) or because I haven't articulated them (if I suddenly started expecting my partners to buy me chocolate and flowers then I better tell them, as I have never once told them I wanted chocolate and flowers! 'Cuz I don't.) or because they seriously don't care (a different matter all together!)?
People are not mind-readers. Sometimes we change our minds. Often our needs change. This is why "communicate" is a poly-mantra!
Last edited:
vinsanity0
Active member
Simply put they are things we agreed on. Things we both didn't want to happen. For instance, bringing a partner home when the other was there. We also agreed we wouldn't change our living arrangements. Things like that. It wasn't "You can't do this or that", it was more " Let's not do this or that."
River
Well-known member
Hmm. Seems like the function of agreements and rules is basically the same, but the "tone" of one feels different from the tone of the other. 'Agreements' could be thought of as something mature adults decide upon while the word 'rules' sort of evokes the atmosphere of a parent-child relationship... or something like that.
The only clearly established agreements I have with my parter (related to our open / poly approach to relationships) are -
- It's best to meet folks initially outside the home, not in our home, so we know he / she is safe enough to bring home.
(Once I mistakenly trusted bringing a guy into our home who wasn't so trustworthy as I had thought. He was left here alone and got into our cupboards to drink our wine; and he may have pilfered other thing/s too (?). He wasn't a sexual or romantic interest. He just needed a place to stay a while, and seemed okay previously.)
[*]Let's not expose one another to STDs.
The first one applies mainly to me, 'cause the odds of my partner bringing anyone he doesn't know to our home (other than a plumber or an electrician for work) are about nil. Also, he's not actively 'dating' others, as I have been. If he meets a potential lover, it will be in the midst of everyday activities ... on the train, at the laundry mat.... But that almost never happens. He's not actively seeking it. But it's not like it can't happen.
He does occasionally bring unfamiliar folks into our home for massage, though. He's a part time massage therapist and does another line of work part time too. It is intriguing that it's okay to bring in unfamiliar folks for work without question. But I don't really care and don't fuss over it.
Once I know a person well enough, it's perfectly fine for me to bring him or her home. But I try to respect his (our) space. It's small and if I have someone here with me it's not like we have a special room for that.... So when I do bring folks home it's usually on days when he's away for work.
We also don't rely on "rules" much in general. We state our preferences, wants and needs to one another, though. And we generally respect these.
Last edited:
River, you've spent years philosophizing about polyamory. Farmgirl is new to open relationships, and has another disturbing thread about the open but not really open and definitely not polyamorous relationship she currently has with her patriarchal husband. It goes way beyond one penis policy. You might want to read there before you keep waxing poetic about your long term poly relationship and who gets to massage whom.
vinsanity0
Active member
For me the big difference is a rule is my partner telling me I can't do something I want to do, or me telling them the same.
River
Well-known member
I'll look into her other thread, as you suggest. But I don't think of any of these threads as being all about the OP -- original poster or original post. Conversations have a life of their own, after all. And I don't feel I need to jump into everyone's stuff.
Oh I know you love to talk. You love to put your thoughts out there on this forum a lot.
And of course, this "rules" thread will be read by many. But check out Farmgirl's thread. If you want at all to help her, and not just plaster your own personal philosophy on one more thread, you could read more about where she's coming from. It really has next to nothing to do with "rules." It has to do with hypocrisy, cheating, double standards, misogyny and, basically, abuse.
River
Well-known member
If Farmgirl reads a thread in which reasonable adults in more mature relationships are discussing power dynamics and treating one another with kindness and respect, don't you think she may be getting some of that help?
Don't you think the example of reasonableness and saneness has value in and of itself?
I don't appreciate it when you get in these moods in which you must either obliquely or overtly criticise me all the damn time, Magdlyn. I know you don't like me much.
Yeah, I bet you don't appreciate it. I do find you annoying because I think you are rather self centered and naive and often very shocked when people are different than you, and need information other than what is in your experience.
You speak of The Script on a board for alternative people. We are all off Script here. So why not expect lots of differences?
I've done a lot of relationship counseling and have learned to look outside my own experiences to give help. I don't just speak from personal experience. I don't call people circus sideshow freaks if they think differently or feel differently than I do.
I have also been trained to dig deeper than a person's first question, which is very often different from the questions they actually need answers to.
I can't force you to look up her other thread. But when I found it I was excited to learn what kind of help she really needed. If you'd rather help potential others who might read this thread, rather than the actual OP, fine. You do you.
River
Well-known member
Which section is it in and what is the title?
You don't know how to click on her name here on the thread, and find the drop down box which includes the category, see all posts?
You can do this with anyone. Click her name and try it. There are also other categories you can click on, such as someone's profile, etc.
River
Well-known member
Magdlyn, you frequently misinterpret where I'm coming from. I think it's because you have formed an image of who I am and interpret everything I say through that image. I'm not the person you think I am, and I'm weary of the projection. I suggest you try to see me as someone other than your frozen, ancient pre-packaged image of me. Thanks.
If you can't do that, you may find it easier to just ignore me.
People in this forum are all over the place in terms of their knowledge and experience with polyamory and open relationships. The Script is more solidly present in people's lives who show up here than you're acknowledging. But I think you're just looking for more reasons to bash and criticize me. It appeals to you to paint me into this really stupid, naive foolish person and then to bash him. Whatever. I don't really want it or like it. You could be a lot more generous in your interpretations. Or you could just please leave me alone.
Last edited:
River
Well-known member
Yes, I do know how to do that. No, I don't want to be presented with a long list of posts to guess about. Nowhere did you say that she had only made one other thread, or whatever. I was simply trying to avoid guess work.
And here you go again interpreting me thorough your distorting lens. I propose that you stop responding to me until you've got that distortion filter taken care of. Thanks.
Edit:
Okay, I found the thread. It's called "Double standard".
I had read some of it before. And I just read most of it through.
It's a very tangled, complicated mess there mainly because Farmgirl wasn't (at the time of her initial post) much familiar with the spirit and ethos (and etiquette) of healthy adult relationships generally, much less poly ones. The former is the basis for clarity on the latter, in my way of thinking. I didn't chime in 'cause those who were chiming in were doing fine without my help. I don't do well with wildly tangled messes. And that's what Farmgirl brought you.
I'm an educator by profession. Whenever I teach folks stuff I begin with the basics, the core, foundational elements which folks will need to make sense of the finer details and particulars. What Farmgirl needs is a basic overview of what reasonable, adult relationships look like. How genuine 21st century adults (outside of patriarchy, oppression and domination systems) form relationships based on honesty, integrity, freedom and respect (that sort of thing).
Many people simply haven't been exposed to the basic pattern and shape of mature, adult relationship skills and the ethos underlying it. It's sad.
Last edited: