Should I be worried about my Meta?

RoseTyler92

New member
Hi everyone, new to the forum. I have some concerns which I wanted some advice about in my poly situation. I'm going to change everyone's names for obvious reasons.

I'm Rose, and I'm in my late twenties. My partner David and I have been in a relationship for around 3 and a half years, he's also in his late twenties. David has a second partner, Lucy, who is in her early forties. They have been in a long distance relationship for around 2 and a half years. She is American, David and I are British. We both met David online.

Lucy is planning to move to the UK permanently. She is currently finding this hard because of Covid and finding a British job. Frankly, the idea of he in the UK makes me really anxious, and it comes down to some conversations that we have had as a pair without David.

As her being in the UK will massively change how much I can see David, I think I need some help from David making some adjustments. David and I are planning to get a house together, as are David and Lucy. The plan from discussions with David is that he will split his time between us both (neither me nor Lucy have any other UK partners at the moment, though I am actively looking online for another relationship).

Based on this, I want to discuss future arrangements with Lucy. As far as possible, I think it would be good if we lived in roughly the same area, to cut down on David's travel time between us. I also want to discuss how best to work as a three to work on a system for how David will split up his time.

Thing is, Lucy always shuts down whenever I bring this up. In a recent discussion she basically told me to my face that she felt that David and her had a stronger relationship- "He loves you, but I'm his true love" were her words I think. She also gets very hostile whenever I bring up the planned system of David splitting his time between us. She keeps insisting that he will be spending most of his time with her. Frankly, I think she's in denial. (David and I have had repeated discussions, he swears that this is the plan and he wants this to remain the plan).

To add to the complexity of it, David and Lucy have a BDSM kink relationship thing, whilst David and I have a more casual mix of sex and kink in our sex life. Lucy says that she needs David with her as her "Master" which I personally disagree with, as do the other kinksters I already asked for advice about this. Lucy also has some complex mental health needs.

The idea of Lucy in the UK fills me with anxiety, and it stopped me sleeping last night. I don't think she really wants a poly relationship at all, and I worry that when she gets here she will keep insisting that David spend more and more time with her, cutting into our relationship. David is very insistent that he will not allow this, but the fact that she seems to be of this mindset seems concerning to me anyway?

What do you folks think?
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
I think you have to let David manage his own relationships.

However, practically, you might have more flexibility than her. We also made the move from the US to the UK and you go where you can get a job. We lived in the SE UK originally. Now, because contract and Visa, we live in the SW of the UK but I have to spend time in the capital for work. So if you want to live close to ensure David can see you both frequently, and you have a UK passport, you might have to move to where she gets a job. That's all you can do to make it as logistically easy as possible.

While not all kink relationships need the contact that she is suggesting she will need, many do. It is also true that some people are more drawn to relationships with power exchange outside the bedroom. It can be a newfound higher level of compatibility. That can be true of anything.

One warning I would give you is that dismissing this engagement with kink outside the bedroom as a mental health need or ridiculous usually drives the "Davids" towards acceptance, not towards harsh judgement.

A risk of polyamory is that your partner engages with someone who is more compatible with them than you are even though they never felt anything missing. They may choose to give this new partner more time and other resources as a result. But that's a risk of relationships. All monogamy does is invoke some sense of guilt in the cheater when it occurs.

People can represent polyamory in a way that suggests there will never be a reason for a partner to leave you for someone else because they can have you both. It just doesn't work that way.
 

RoseTyler92

New member
I understand that my position is more flexible then hers for sure. That's part of the reason I wanted to engage with her, so I could figure out where to live in a way that would limit the impact on David. I have no issue with moving to a place near where she settles (that being said, I'd quite like to not live in the SE, as its crazy expensive!)

I guess my point overall is that David has made it clear that he wants an equal pivot, spending equal times with both of us. I know that with Poly you just have to negotiate and sometimes lose out of things you want, and maybe in those cases you leave relationships that wont give you what you need. But I think David and I are on the same page, and Lucy isnt?
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
I understand that my position is more flexible then hers for sure. That's part of the reason I wanted to engage with her, so I could figure out where to live in a way that would limit the impact on David. I have no issue with moving to a place near where she settles (that being said, I'd quite like to not live in the SE, as its crazy expensive!)

I guess my point overall is that David has made it clear that he wants an equal pivot, spending equal times with both of us. I know that with Poly you just have to negotiate and sometimes lose out of things you want, and maybe in those cases you leave relationships that wont give you what you need. But I think David and I are on the same page, and Lucy isnt?

David can't really say how the practicalities will work out leave alone how he will feel when she gets here. He is doing you a disservice by making promises that fate won't keep.
 

RoseTyler92

New member
But its not "fate" that decides this stuff, its the collective decision making of the three people. Ultimately, the buck does stop with David, as he's the one in the middle of the pivot. My biggest issue with the situation and the reason for reaching out for advice is that I think we're in a situation where its currently impossible for all three of us to be happy at once, with all of our current goals in mind. Does that mean the pivot is doomed?
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
But its not "fate" that decides this stuff, its the collective decision making of the three people. Ultimately, the buck does stop with David, as he's the one in the middle of the pivot. My biggest issue with the situation and the reason for reaching out for advice is that I think we're in a situation where its currently impossible for all three of us to be happy at once, with all of our current goals in mind. Does that mean the pivot is doomed?


There isn't any way that David can promise either of you that he will split his time equally because he doesn't know where everyone will be living in respect of their current conditions and he can't say where he will desire to spend his time or how. He might decide that he needs a third space of his own to spend a third of his time because this is all too much and he needs me time too.

Nobody can decide how to feel ahead of the time or who will offer Lucy a viable job and where they will live and whether you will actually be able to move there too.

Another thing to think about. In 100 years, even if you and Lucy stay with David for life, he would have still have broken his promise of equality. There is no way that he would have split his time 50/50 because at the very least, one of you would die before the other.

And then what if Lucy moves over and he wants to spend 70% of his time with you because it makes most sense? Should he deny that urge and still force himself upon Lucy or just hang around the streets instead? If he does anything other than split time equally, he has lied to you.
 

Magdlyn

Well-known member
So, you and David live together in a flat? (Apartment, as we say in the US.) But now he's all gung ho to buy not one, but two houses, putting his name on 2 mortgages. How is that all going to actually work? It sounds like Lucy may or may not find a job. She won't move to the UK until she finds a job? And then you and David will both move to wherever she gets a job? Are your own 2 jobs so flexible? Do you work from home? Can Lucy work from home if she moves to the UK, so all 3 of you can live where you want (and can afford) without being dependent on where Lucy works?

What if her hypothetical job doesn't work out and she has to hunt, and then move again? And then if you and David have already bought a house, you'd have to go through the hassle of putting it on the market and househunting again, all dependent on Lucy?

From here it seems to me that no one should be buying houses yet until Lucy is established in job. At most, you and David could get another flat closer to her to cut down on his travel time. And she could rent as well, until you all see how her job, and her relationship with David, and adjusting to the UK as an American, etc., works out. Generally, it's not a great idea to move across country, or to another country, and immediately purchase a home with a long distance partner, with whom you have never cohabited (other than maybe a few extended visits).

So, the other thing is that Lucy seems to be feeling and acting very competitive with you. "David loves me more! nanny nanny boo boo." That's not how polyamory works. That's how jealous monos act. It seems like she's trying to rope him off for herself. After such a long time of a LDR, she wants a real bf all to herself. She's sounding like a cowgirl.

All that said, yes, this is David's problem. He is the hinge, or the pivot. He's the one who will have to acclimate to sharing his time and running back and forth between 2 homes.

My nesting partner Pixi is a hinge with 2 full time partners, me and her bf M. She splits her time 50/50. She never really gets much time to herself. She likes it though. She loves to "take care of us" both. And her job is cyclical, so for 3/4 of the year, it's less demanding, and she can do things with and for both of us without feeling drained or exhausted. (She's a camp director though, so she's completely gone for over 2 months of the year.)

Her bf lives 5 miles away from our house. It's a 12 minute drive, very easy. And M and I both like our alone time, so most of the time, we're OK with being on our own for half the week. He has a demanding job. And I'm poly so I can date others if I feel like it. And I have a busy job and lots of hobbies, so it all works out. Pixi keeps in touch by text with both of us when she is at the other's house.

It sounds like Lucy may not be cut out for sharing nicely. But again, it's David's issue. I don't negotiate my time directly with M. Pixi does a good job of keeping things fair and balanced. David will have to see if he can keep both you and Lucy feeling satisfied and fulfilled and secure. Of course, one's security and happiness also comes from within. If Lucy needs a lot of propping up, emotionally, she may not be cut out for poly, as I said. Being a poly partner does take good self esteem and the ability to do good self-care.

Good luck.
 

RoseTyler92

New member
So, you and David live together in a flat? (Apartment, as we say in the US.) But now he's all gung ho to buy not one, but two houses, putting his name on 2 mortgages. How is that all going to actually work? It sounds like Lucy may or may not find a job. She won't move to the UK until she finds a job? And then you and David will both move to wherever she gets a job? Are your own 2 jobs so flexible? Do you work from home? Can Lucy work from home if she moves to the UK, so all 3 of you can live where you want (and can afford) without being dependent on where Lucy works?

What if her hypothetical job doesn't work out and she has to hunt, and then move again? And then if you and David have already bought a house, you'd have to go through the hassle of putting it on the market and househunting again, all dependent on Lucy?

From here it seems to me that no one should be buying houses yet until Lucy is established in job. At most, you and David could get another flat closer to her to cut down on his travel time. And she could rent as well, until you all see how her job, and her relationship with David, and adjusting to the UK as an American, etc., works out. Generally, it's not a great idea to move across country, or to another country, and immediately purchase a home with a long distance partner, with whom you have never cohabited (other than maybe a few extended visits).

So, the other thing is that Lucy seems to be feeling and acting very competitive with you. "David loves me more! nanny nanny boo boo." That's not how polyamory works. That's how jealous monos act. It seems like she's trying to rope him off for herself. After such a long time of a LDR, she wants a real bf all to herself. She's sounding like a cowgirl.

All that said, yes, this is David's problem. He is the hinge, or the pivot. He's the one who will have to acclimate to sharing his time and running back and forth between 2 homes.

My nesting partner Pixi is a hinge with 2 full time partners, me and her bf M. She splits her time 50/50. She never really gets much time to herself. She likes it though. She loves to "take care of us" both. And her job is cyclical, so for 3/4 of the year, it's less demanding, and she can do things with and for both of us without feeling drained or exhausted. (She's a camp director though, so she's completely gone for over 2 months of the year.)

Her bf lives 5 miles away from our house. It's a 12 minute drive, very easy. And M and I both like our alone time, so most of the time, we're OK with being on our own for half the week. He has a demanding job. And I'm poly so I can date others if I feel like it. And I have a busy job and lots of hobbies, so it all works out. Pixi keeps in touch by text with both of us when she is at the other's house.

It sounds like Lucy may not be cut out for sharing nicely. But again, it's David's issue. I don't negotiate my time directly with M. Pixi does a good job of keeping things fair and balanced. David will have to see if he can keep both you and Lucy feeling satisfied and fulfilled and secure. Of course, one's security and happiness also comes from within. If Lucy needs a lot of propping up, emotionally, she may not be cut out for poly, as I said. Being a poly partner does take good self esteem and the ability to do good self-care.

Good luck.
So David and I will buy a house. It may be with David on the mortgage as well, or I may buy it essentially as a solo purchase and then charge David rent (don't worry, I have no intention of leaving him out of rights on the property, we're going to get something signed with a solicitor). It may be that David needs to preserve funds for a future house purchase with Lucy, we are still discussing this.

As for David and Lucy, as far as I know the plan is for her to work for her US company remotely. She wont be eligible for a mortgage for some time, so I imagine she will rent a place for the next few years (her job is quite high income so this shouldn't be a problem).

Additionally, David has mentioned that he may get a civil partnership with Lucy to make her move to the UK easier. I have mixed feelings about this, but in his words it would be a "paperwork exercise" and not as far as he's concerned anything more then a tool to keep her in the UK. Its not guaranteed, just something he's considering.

That arrangement you have sounds lovely! One of the things that is currently making me sad is that I hoped that I could get along with his other partners, and that seems almost impossible with Lucy's attitude at the moment. This sounds more or less what I imagined the structure of our pivot would be. I also value my along time, plus my freedom to entertain other people/new partners when David would be away, so I feel its a good plan for me. I'm just getting increasingly concerned that Lucy will never see it that way.

What's a cowgirl? :p
 

RoseTyler92

New member
There isn't any way that David can promise either of you that he will split his time equally because he doesn't know where everyone will be living in respect of their current conditions and he can't say where he will desire to spend his time or how. He might decide that he needs a third space of his own to spend a third of his time because this is all too much and he needs me time too.

Nobody can decide how to feel ahead of the time or who will offer Lucy a viable job and where they will live and whether you will actually be able to move there too.

Another thing to think about. In 100 years, even if you and Lucy stay with David for life, he would have still have broken his promise of equality. There is no way that he would have split his time 50/50 because at the very least, one of you would die before the other.

And then what if Lucy moves over and he wants to spend 70% of his time with you because it makes most sense? Should he deny that urge and still force himself upon Lucy or just hang around the streets instead? If he does anything other than split time equally, he has lied to you.

I'm not for a second imagining this as some great exercise in complete equality, like him having to keep a log of hours spent with us both! That would be ludicrous! What I mean by equal is that I hope there would be a general idea that we would be treated as equal in terms of time spent with each other, negotating things like David needing to be in two places at once on a case by case basis (like Lucy wants him to get for dinner with her family whilst I want him to help fix an issue with the plumbing, as a random example).

I am totally aware that David may need space from us both sometimes, and that he may choose to get his own place, though he's certainly not mentioned anything like this to me, I did ask the question once if he would prefer that arrangement.
 

ref2018

Member
What's a cowgirl? :p
A "cow[person]" in this context is someone who gets involved with a poly or nonmonogamous individual with the ultimate goal of being in a monogamous relationship. A "cowboy" is someone who wrangles livestock, which involves separating individual animals from the herd, that's where the expression comes from as applied to these relationships.
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
I'm not for a second imagining this as some great exercise in complete equality, like him having to keep a log of hours spent with us both! That would be ludicrous! What I mean by equal is that I hope there would be a general idea that we would be treated as equal in terms of time spent with each other, negotating things like David needing to be in two places at once on a case by case basis (like Lucy wants him to get for dinner with her family whilst I want him to help fix an issue with the plumbing, as a random example).

I am totally aware that David may need space from us both sometimes, and that he may choose to get his own place, though he's certainly not mentioned anything like this to me, I did ask the question once if he would prefer that arrangement.


Let him deal with that. He says "Okay Lucy, I will come to dinner after I do plumbing thing" or he says "ok Rose, but tomorrow, tonight I have dinner". He gets to choose what he does. You're trying to make sure he isn't tempted to anything but what he promised you by trying to control what she is allowed to want or even need. It is impossible and unethical to try.

Honestly David has no idea how his life will be with 2 insecure partners vying for his attention and first place while maintaining the farce that it is all meant to be equal. He will very likely need time out.

Right now, you might feel like you're the one much more in control and stable than Lucy. It is your proximity to him that gives you that illusion. When she comes over and they're all excited about getting to spend extended time together and enjoy each other like they haven't been able to in a long distance relationship, you'll likely feel just like her. That's just my experience of these situations.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
Lucy is planning to move to the UK permanently. She is currently finding this hard because of Covid and finding a British job

Then why are you even sweating this at this point in time? Changing countries is expensive.

If it boils down to "Talking to Lucy makes me feel anxious and weird because she talks crap" the solution is "Stop talking to Lucy so much."

Based on this, I want to discuss future arrangements with Lucy. As far as possible, I think it would be good if we lived in roughly the same area, to cut down on David's travel time between us. I also want to discuss how best to work as a three to work on a system for how David will split up his time.

I think you are going to have to give up on the idea of "working it out in three" and any kind of kitchen table poly.

And if you are ready? You just buy your house where you want and make sure you can afford it WITHOUT David's help. Call any David rent "bonus." And maybe NOT have him involved in your house so if things go wahoonie, you aren't stuck with him on your house.

You leave Lucy to buy her house where she wants. The actual house buying is a ways off for her anyway since she can't qualify for a mortgage in the UK when she first moves. She'd be in an apartment. And she's not even here yet because she doesn't even have a job yet.

Could hold David accountable for his time management and other promises to you.
  • If he's supposed to pay you rent on the house you buy? Best you make a legal contract around that. If he bails you take him to court just like any other tenant. But since you bought within your means alone anyway, you can manage the mortgage without him if he turns out to be a drag. You are responsible for your own emergency preparedness. Or just don't live with him.
  • If he's supposed to split his time between you and Lucy? Then you expect him to split his time fairly enough. And if you end up getting the short end of the stick because he spreads himself too thin? You work it out with HIM. Or you end up dumping him because he fails to meet expectations/promises to you.

Thing is, Lucy always shuts down whenever I bring this up. In a recent discussion she basically told me to my face that she felt that David and her had a stronger relationship- "He loves you, but I'm his true love" were her words I think. She also gets very hostile whenever I bring up the planned system of David splitting his time between us. She keeps insisting that he will be spending most of his time with her. Frankly, I think she's in denial. (David and I have had repeated discussions, he swears that this is the plan and he wants this to remain the plan).

If she always shuts down why do you keep pursuing this line of conversation? For what purpose? If you recognize she has mental health issues, that sounds kinda mean.

Could say "Well, I tried!" and then back off. Go ahead and let her live in her world of denial. Let David deal with her wacky. He's the one picking her out to date, not you.

This does not have to be your problem.

Be polite if you bump into her, but you don't HAVE to talk to her more than that. You do not have to help her with her "change countries" plan.

Lucy says that she needs David with her as her "Master" which I personally disagree with, as do the other kinksters I already asked for advice about this. Lucy also has some complex mental health needs.

Lucy's sex and kink life is not your business.

You don't have to know about what they do other than David uses safer sex practices.

What I mean by equal is that I hope there would be a general idea that we would be treated as equal in terms of time spent with each other, negotating things like David needing to be in two places at once on a case by case basis (like Lucy wants him to get for dinner with her family whilst I want him to help fix an issue with the plumbing, as a random example).

Treated equal by WHO? David.

David is responsible for his time management. If he promises to treat you both reasonably equal and split his time fairly with each? And he fails to do so? You work that out with him. If it's that you need reassurance? Ask David to reassure you.

Still nothing to do with Lucy.

Additionally, David has mentioned that he may get a civil partnership with Lucy to make her move to the UK easier. I have mixed feelings about this, but in his words it would be a "paperwork exercise" and not as far as he's concerned anything more then a tool to keep her in the UK. Its not guaranteed, just something he's considering.

I think this is a foolish thing to do with someone you have been dating LDR for 2.5 years. To tie yourself up legally married/civil partnership with someone who may be in protracted NRE because it's been LDR rather than up close.

But... not your problem. That's David's problem.

It might make you look at DAVID different -- esp if you value marriage or civil partnerships in a certain "serious relationship" way and he's like "Psssh! Matter of convenience" about it.

One of the things that is currently making me sad is that I hoped that I could get along with his other partners, and that seems almost impossible with Lucy's attitude at the moment. This sounds more or less what I imagined the structure of our pivot would be. I also value my along time, plus my freedom to entertain other people/new partners when David would be away, so I feel its a good plan for me. I'm just getting increasingly concerned that Lucy will never see it that way.

So this partner doesn't work out for that. Might with his other partners. Let the idea go with Lucy.

If you value alone time, your freedom, space, etc? You might tell David to have his own flat. He can split his time and your house and Lucy's house, but maybe you just don't want him around as a roomie too? Because roomies bring their dates home. And maybe you don't want Lucy or his other partners in your house. If he has his own flat, he can take his dates THERE.

The idea of Lucy in the UK fills me with anxiety, and it stopped me sleeping last night. I don't think she really wants a poly relationship at all, and I worry that when she gets here she will keep insisting that David spend more and more time with her, cutting into our relationship. David is very insistent that he will not allow this, but the fact that she seems to be of this mindset seems concerning to me anyway?

Well, why is her mindset your problem?

You don't trust David to handle it?

However Lucy is? You can set a boundary of not talking to her other than in emergencies or "basic polite" like you do to the bank teller or grocery clerk if you bump into her somehow.

If she keeps bringing wacky to your door (as opposed as YOU seeking it out when you bring up these conversations repeatedly even though you see it shuts her down)...

And David keeps ON picking her out to date even though she's annoying you and won't respect your limits after you set them?

Your problem wouldn't be Lucy. You are gonna start looking at DAVID different. Like "What's the matter with you that you keep on picking weirdos to date?"

And then you have to realize that the one picking HIM out is you. And you can pretty much stop picking him out whenever you want.

At this point in time?

Could give up the idea of working things in three like some kind of kitchen table poly. Leave Lucy alone. Stop "chasing her" with these conversations.

Could change and learn to deal with a very separate V and David keeps his Lucy stuff on THAT side.
  • If he becomes a sloppy hinge and leaking his Lucy problems on to you?
  • If he does not meet your needs on this side of the V for enough time together?
  • You dump him because DAVID doesn't make the cut.
I'm not trying to be mean here.

Just saying that you could have stronger personal boundaries around Lucy's stuff. And stronger boundaries with David as well.

Keep YOUR life simpler. Deal with your own stuff, not other people's.

Why's Lucy a big deal? How have you dealt with David's other partners? Or is she the only one so far?

Galagirl
 
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RoseTyler92

New member
Thanks for the input everyone. I mostly reached out online because I wanted the opinion of people who didnt feel the need to be nice to me, if that makes sense! I have discussed the issues with other poly friends but getting advice from other people who don't know anyone involved is good too.

I can see the general advice seems to be stop engaging with Lucy if its causing me to be anxious. I was honestly engaging with her because I thought it would have the opposite effect, but I clearly need to back off a bit. I also feel bad for David, as I dont want him to constantly feel like he's in the middle of two people who dont get on, but that might be unavoidable.

To the pivots reading this- is it better for you if your partners work together, or if you were David would it be better if their relationship was very need to know?
 

Evie

Moderator
Need to know.

My two primary partners know how to contact each other, but they don't have their own conversations and it's 100% my job to negotiate time management between them.

Also, I have no direct contact with Puck's other partners, although, again, know how to contact them in case of emergency.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
I also feel bad for David, as I dont want him to constantly feel like he's in the middle of two people who dont get on, but that might be unavoidable.

David is in charge of his emotional management. Not you. If David picks out dating partners who can only manage "basic polite if we bump into each other" but not like "best friends" or "KTP?" He could thank the heavens and leave well enough alone.

He is not "in the middle" of anything. He's just a hinge with more than one partner.

If either partner says "Thanks, but no thanks. I don't want to hang out with your and your other partner. I'm good with basic polite if we bump into each other, but not making special hangout plans" that is not being mean to David. It is them stating where they stand.

If either partner IS acting out mean or being a pain in the ass to David or his loved ones? He is free to dump them if he doesn't like that behavior.

Not everyone you date is destined to be a long haul runner. That's just a basic of general dating. It's not really about poly. It's about whether the person you date fits in with your values, interests, life, etc. Poly person or not? It's a limit of the universe. One cannot date EVERYONE in the world. And one just ISN'T going to line up with everyone else in the world. It's what dating is FOR -- to sort out the compatible ones out.

To the pivots reading this- is it better for you if your partners work together, or if you were David would it be better if their relationship was very need to know?

It's been a VERY long time since I was a hinge. We've been closed through active parenting. One was local and the other LDR. We were all very young and winging it since poly resources back then were very scant. I was up front with both that I was non-exclusive. I left it to them how they wanted to be with each other. I provided contact info in the event of emergency and then I let it be.

I found out years later that a few times the LDR one would reach out to the local one to talk about me, but neither said anything to me about it at the time. Mainly along the lines of "Can you check on her sometime soon in person? I'm worried about her and I'm too far away to go check on her" kinda of way. It was super rare and during times of super stress for me. Both were very civilized and respectful that each one was important to me. It was a very separate V otherwise.

In terms of time management? How I spent my time with each of them was my business and my problem to deal with. Neither one complained they weren't getting enough time with me. Both seemed happy to be there. I managed it so well that the local one didn't even realize when I had broken up with the LDR one. And even after breaking up, the LDR one and I were close friends for several years after til it faded down to annual bday cards (mostly me) and once in a blue moon email (him.)

It is better for me when metas leave me out of their relationship with each other. Just because I date both doesn't mean they automatically have anything in common or time/space for more people in their lives. I would just request and expect basic polite if they do happen to cross paths somehow. Past that? They can deal with their own selves and each other. If they cannot manage to be basic polite to other people in my life? I just don't date them then. Simple.

Just because I'm the hinge? Doesn't mean I want to be or should be like some kind of "referee." People are supposed to be adults.

If they end up forming some kind of friendship on their own? I'm glad, but it's not required. And it isn't my business.

Galagirl
 
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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Hello Rose,

It seems to me that the question here is: Do you trust David? It's already obvious that you can't trust Lucy.

David has given you his word that he will divide his time evenly between you and Lucy. Do you trust him to keep his word? or do you suspect that Lucy will, "hypnotize" him, so to speak, with her charms, and convince him to break his word?

Can he be trusted?
Such are my thoughts,
Kevin T.
 
Has Lucy and David ever met in the real world? My experience is that sometimes online doesn’t translate well to real world. Another issue is after being separated for so long, there maybe a period of NRE. My last online relationship crashed and burned in the real world. I was okay with that it crashed. I would make sure to have good communication with David about NRE. Also make sure you have plans. My life Moto is accept the things you cannot change, change the things you can.
 

YouAreHere

Active member
Thanks for the input everyone. I mostly reached out online because I wanted the opinion of people who didnt feel the need to be nice to me, if that makes sense! I have discussed the issues with other poly friends but getting advice from other people who don't know anyone involved is good too.

I can see the general advice seems to be stop engaging with Lucy if its causing me to be anxious. I was honestly engaging with her because I thought it would have the opposite effect, but I clearly need to back off a bit. I also feel bad for David, as I dont want him to constantly feel like he's in the middle of two people who dont get on, but that might be unavoidable.

To the pivots reading this- is it better for you if your partners work together, or if you were David would it be better if their relationship was very need to know?
I will say this:
Early-ish, in my relationship with Chops, he deflected a lot of the negotiations and laid them in my and Xena's laps, because it's "easier for us to work it out directly and not have him in the middle."

Eventually, I'd had enough and told him that he IS in the middle, and he has an opinion too, and he needs to exercise it. Putting it on us was lazy and seemed like a way to absolve him of any responsibility; he needed to be involved.

Things worked out better after that.

You may want to shield him from this, but why? He's the pivot between two relationships and it's his responsibility to manage both. It's ok to let him do his job.
 

icesong

Moderator
I can see the general advice seems to be stop engaging with Lucy if its causing me to be anxious. I was honestly engaging with her because I thought it would have the opposite effect, but I clearly need to back off a bit. I also feel bad for David, as I dont want him to constantly feel like he's in the middle of two people who dont get on, but that might be unavoidable.
Honestly, one of the best pieces of poly advice I ever got (can't remember now where, might just be me synthesizing a LOT of bits and pieces from here and there) is "if I think I have a meta problem, 9 times out of 10 I have a partner problem". Like, there just aren't a lot of issues that I can imagine having with ArtistSpouse or Elaine that aren't actually based in a need Artist isn't meeting and it's up to him to figure out how to meet it OR to tell me he can't. Joan and I obviously have the potential for more conflict since our lives are more entangled, so if something was specifically bothering me about she and I that didn't involve Knight I'd say something, but again, most of the potential issues here on time management etc are Knight's responsibility to manage.

Now, that said, I have a close relationship with Joan, a polite if distant (we barely know each other!) relationship with Elaine and a slightly more complicated but better these days relationship with ArtistSpouse (I resented a few double standards that used to be in place in their relationship; those are gone now and we see each other a bit more and are building a bit better of an acquaintanceship although I doubt we'll ever be close).

Back to your specific situation, @YouAreHere is 100% right:
You may want to shield him from this, but why? He's the pivot between two relationships and it's his responsibility to manage both. It's ok to let him do his job.

I somewhat doubt, from your description, that David will actually be able to make Lucy happy while maintaining a relationship with you. But that's on him if he wants to attempt it, and you don't need to feel you should step back in the relationship so much that it doesn't meet your needs anymore just because David's trying to meet Lucy's ever-escalating ones. He's the one that will have to figure out how to make that work.
 
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