Simultaneous NRE

Since my last blog post a week ago, there have been developments with Ginger. I posted a new thread about it in the Poly Relationships forum, since I want/need feedback.

http://polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71204

I will repost the original posts here for continuity.

So much for trying to be friends with the ex!

I broke up with Ginger in mid July. Then I was slammed with summer activities, trips, and even a houseguest for 3 weeks. This delayed greatly my ability to grieve the end of our r'ship and come to terms with it.

However, in the past month I have finally had time to do that. Meanwhile, Ginger continued his on again, off again r'ship with the married couple, David and Carla. The mess of that r'ship had driven me nuts. It was a major factor in my breaking up with Ginger. I found it upsetting and exhausting to know what an unethical fucked up mess it was, and to be associated with it in any way.

It's hard to believe those 3 have been together (or broken up and back together) for six months now.

So, in the last month Ginger has been trying to chat with me online. We finally had two three-hour chats, and a couple of shorter ones, and agreed to meet to have a walk and talk.

That was yesterday.

I thought that C&D had broken up with him for good a month ago, and by now he'd have had a chance to grieve the ending of their jealousy ridden r'ship.

When we met, Ginger seemed very down. I was open to seeing if there was a way to be platonic friends with him. My gf miss pixi also wanted to know if she and he could continue as friends. I was also open to seeing if he and I could continue a sexual romantic r'ship on a more casual basis, say, meet once a week. Ginger told me he came to this meeting opposed to being anything less than full-on lovers again. He didn't think he could be friends, because he is too sexually attracted to me. He didn't seem to think we could be more casual lovers either, even though we discussed how he did manage that with a former lover.

Finally I found out he is still madly in love with Carla, and she with him. However, she is madly in love with her husband too, and "would rather die" than lose him or their kids.

So, he and she still chat online a lot, "more than we should," he said. I guess more than she and David agreed she would. Poor boundaries, poor negotiations. After all, they are poly noobs, which always annoyed me.

So, in the first hour of our meeting, I realized he is too distraught over his unfulfilling r'ship with Carla to really have proper energy to have a healthy happy relationship, of any kind, with me.
 
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Ginger and I had gone over our past issues in chat already, so we didn't need to rehash any of that. I was curious about what, if anything, we could salvage going forward. So, I wanted to really delve into where his head was at as far as poly r'ships.

(For any of you that aren't familiar with all the background to this situation, you can go read all the details on my blog, starting back in April.)

In the past month, Ginger has hosted 2 large drum circles on his land. He has space on his acreage for plenty of parking, and has a fire pit. So, I asked if D&C had been to these 2 events. He told me, they both came to the first fire, but only David came to the second one. I asked why Carla didn't come. So, he asked if I wanted the short version or the medium version. I said, the medium. Then confession time started.

See, David has always been very jealous of Carla's love and lust for Ginger. However, he also cares for Ginger, and vice versa, and both men were bi-curious, though neither had ever had sex with another man (Ginger is 61, David is 41). So, David made a rule, and Ginger and Carla agreed, that after the first couple one on one dates for Ginger and C, from then on (all summer) all dates for Carla and Ginger would need to include David. All sex would have to be threesomes.

Meanwhile, Ginger has had many health issues since I have known him. 2 tick borne diseases, and this year, prostate enlargement that required surgery. He also had a pain in his back which was undiagnosed for a while, but was recently found to be a torn muscle which required PT. These issues led to problems with erectile dysfunction. So, the last months of our r'ship, and his r'ship with the couple, were impacted by this difficulty.

But he pursued a r'ship with them, willy nilly, while our sex life went down the tubes.

So, back to the present. He confessed that he and Carla snuck in a couple one on one dates behind David's back! She then lied about it to David, but he smelled a rat, and she gradually and painfully confessed. Then David made yet another rule: Carla and Ginger are not allowed to be in the same physical space anymore. She agreed to take her "punishment," and Ginger had no choice, as their secondary, but to go along with it.

All very painful, and distressing. Meanwhile I was upset by his ethics in having met with Carla behind David's back!

So, now I saw the real reason he can't re-establish some kind of r'ship with me. He is too engrossed in this soap opera of a mess with his current lovers.

We dropped this topic for a while, and got back to whether, if he and I did resume, he could even have sex. In our recent chats, he had told me the prostate is healed, and the back is healing, altho he hasn't been able to test it during actual sex with a partner since the breakup a month ago.

BUT, oh boy, BUT! He then proceeded to tell me that he and David got together last Thursday, Friday and Saturday for sex! Even though Carla is not allowed to even be in the same room with Ginger, somehow the men have decided they can get together and have MM sex alone!
 
Ginger confessed this (sex with David), after having told me a month ago that things were over between the 3 of them, except trying to be friends and seeing each other at events. I said, I thought they had decided to go back to being monogamous? Apparently this is how David does monogamy? Fucks Ginger while Carla sits at home with their kids? And she is OK with this? No, I don't think she really is.

Adding here that Ginger has Asperger's syndrome and has a hell of a time understanding other peoples' emotions and motivations. So, we have a neurologically challenged man, and 2 poly noobs who are very emotional and inexperienced and passionate and impulsive. Full of couple privilege, and doing all this shit while trying to raise 3 very young (3, 6 and 8 year old) children, no less!

What a mess. When Ginger finally, after talking for an hour and a half, confessed he is back together with David sexually, I felt like someone had poured a bucket of ice water over my head. My mouth went dry, I got up from the bench we were sitting on, and almost ran back to my van. Ginger requested a good bye hug, which I did give him, while reeling with disgust at his behavior.

So, it seems Ginger chose this fucked up ethically sketchy r'ship with these 2 sexy newbies, all the drama, all the pain, all the jealousy, cheating, coverups and lies, and yearning, over having a nice calm (fun passionate sexy) r'ship with good old Mags, and a loving, sometimes sexy, r'ship with miss pixi.

This hurts. I'd begun to heal, but wanted to be open minded, and mature, and see if anything could be salvaged here. Apparently not. Case closed.
 
2 days have gone by since I met with Ginger. I am still his FB friend. He didn't post anything on his profile since Monday and today is Thursday. We met on Tuesday. So I assumed he was too upset to post comments or share pix as he usually does.

Late this morning, however, he posted something so fakely Zen, I saw red. His hippie-ish fake Zen, and "detachment," and patronizing bullshit in general pisses me off no end. It's so fake. I know it's fake this time because I saw how unhappy he was about me, and about C&D as well, with my own eyes, just 2 days ago!

So, I messaged him. I didn't get to really speak my piece the other day, since he was stubbornly monologuing as only an Asperger's person can do, and I didn't feel he took in anything I said. Also, he dropped the bomb about shagging David 3 days in a row, in the last minutes of our date, and I was speechless.

So, today he told me to stop blogging about him, David and Carla! I thought, oh god, David is reading here again even though he promised back in May he'd leave me alone.

Ginger let me believe it was David who was reading here. But after some discussion (it's always like pulling teeth to get facts) he admitted he'd asked a friend to read my blog and look out for me mentioning D&C! I also messaged David and he denied spying.

Here's a c+p from my discussion thread:

Just to be absolutely clear: Ginger confessed this afternoon that he asked a friend to "monitor" (spy on) my blog just in case I mentioned Carla or David and "lied" about what is going on with them and Ginger. Then he would know what to say, I guess, IF, in a moment of "weakness," David or Carla happened to decide to read it, and got upset. He feared that my words ("lies" as he said) about them would "ruin things" between him and them.

As you who read my blog know, I have not been talking about my ex's new partners much all summer. Just going about my healing... I don't blame them! I know they are poly newbies and just bumbling and fumbling along as well all do when new to poly. I really do just want to move on.

Apparently his minion read this thread yesterday and saw me mention Carla cheating on David and being punished. And his minion told Ginger. And now he is scolding me for "lying" since I didn't explain the cheating accurately. Even though he didn't share a lot of details about it, I didn't lie, I told what I understood to be the truth.

SO! *waves at Ginger's mysterious minion/spy/lackey* I hope you are enjoying your oh-so-ethical spying and reporting to your Master.

It was my own mistake to see if he and I could be friends again. I can see that is impossible. He does like attention. It's obviously an ego gratification for him, being a bone 2 dogs are tugging on. Or 3 dogs. He likes his bone being tugged. I am done tugging.

For those of you that have suggested I not talk to Carla or David, I have not been. I messaged David today briefly to ask him if he's been reading here, and he said he has not been reading this board, or my blog or other threads. He assured me he has not been. I have no need or desire to talk to C or D and have not been in contact with either of them since July.

So, it's all on Ginger. My apologies to David. And a big fuck you to Ginger's hired spy.
 
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I haven't updated here in a month because I know Ginger's minion is spying on me and reporting to him, if he isn't actually checking himself by this point.

I know this is a public board. But if feels SO gross to be stalked for the purposes of seeing if I am "lying" about an ex.

I have been having good times in my life with miss pixi, with other family and friends, and am having some interesting chats with interesting men from okc and FL. I don't really feel like sharing here only to have my vindictive morally-bereft ex reading about it for his own pleasure and nefarious purposes...

Gross. So gross to feel stalked.
 
I'm so sorry to read about your troubles. It sounds like its been rough. I'm glad to hear in this last post that you are getting on with your life with friends, family and new prospects.

Writing details and complicated emotions in public is hard to do without stalkers. I have firsthand experience in that. I admire your bravery and determination to write anyway, even if there are edits.

I hope you find a way to forgive and move on. Ginger was a huge part of your life for a long time and you have some good memories on this blog. Maybe it's possible to remember him for those memories at some point, and let bygones be bygones when the emotions aren't as fresh?
 
:D Excellent :D
 
:D

Glad to see you posting to your blog thread again, too. :)
 
Glad to see you posting to your blog thread again, too.
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Well, I assume he is still spying on me, so I dunno if I feel okay with detailed updates. :mad:
 
It is taking me so long to make sense of my loss of Ginger. I just couldnt understand it! Was it Aspergers or something else? Galagirl mentioned needing "supply," which suggested narcissismm and I have finally started really reading up on the "Don Juan" seducer type. This article nails it! Aha!

https://psychopathyawareness.wordpr...ntify-and-escape-from-psychopathic-seduction/

Almost all his words, actions, behaviors, techniques, it's all in there. Light dawns.
 
FullofLove1052 said:
I would hope he has something more important to do than continue to spy on your blog.
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Indeed. Besides, living well is the best revenge, after all.
 
I dunno, Mags. I think there is too much of a tendency to label someone as a psychopath or a sociopath for poor, stupid, and thoughtless behavior. They are supposed to be rare and yet 'everyone' has run into one. I think that Ginger is probably epically clueless and seeking to fill a void somewhere in his soul with new partners. This isn't healthy, of course, but it also doesn't make him a psychopath or sociopath. Sometimes the people we loved do incredibly cruel, thoughtless things and treat us miserably. I've been on both ends of this. It can be truly inexplicable. But sometimes there is no 'good' explanation. Sometimes our loved ones just fail us, and themselves too. We are all so frail in different ways.

Now, I've never met Ginger (or you!), and you are a smart capable woman of the world. You may be entirely correct. But in the long run this seems too 'easy' an explanation. I really understand the drive to understand. I have this drive to make meaning out of experience, too. But I think you are trying to make sense of an experience that may never make much sense.
 
Nah, this makes sense, opal. I showed the articles to miss pixi, and to my sister, who met him once, and has heard all the horrible details. My blog only scratches the surface. Also, it was GalaGirl who first suggested narcissism and she was right. It's all in there. As I said, his confusing words, his behaviors, now I get the pattern. Is he a psychopath? I don't know if he has "Narcissistic Personality Disorder," but he has tendencies for sure.
 
Possible consolation: Once you've got close to one or more people with marked narcissistic tendencies you will spot them much easier later on and most likely avoid them. I feel bad saying this, because it's not like they can help it, but they make for absolutely appalling friends or partners.
 
You have written a wonderful blog, Magdlyn! Thanks for writing it.
 
You're welcome, polycub, glad you've enjoyed reading it. It's been kind of messy the last year or so!

So I had a couple hot satisfying dates with a new guy... then I had to go back to Florida again for 11 days to clear out my parents' condo to get it on the market semi-furnished, and "as is." That meant going through thousands of family photographs going back to the 1860s! Yes, the 1860s. Huge job. Also had to peddle antique furniture and collectibles and am almost done with that. Miss Pixi came with me and has been a great help. My sister was here for a few days also.

This month marks 6 years with Miss Pixi so we are also doing some fun vacation-type stuff for our anniversary. Florida is so beautiful and I am lucky, despite all the work, to be away from Massachusetts for a chunk of January.

Today the antiques dealer who bought our stuff is coming by to pick it up. Tomorrow we hired movers to take trash and recyclables away and to bring donatables to Goodwill. In the afternoon cleaners will come. Friday morning the carpets will be shampooed. Saturday we go home.

And yesterday my married daughter went into labor 4 weeks early and had my first grandchild! I was worried but it seems things will be okay. Baby girl was born 6lb10oz and is healthy except for lung immaturity. I've been giving daughter advice on the phone about pumping and feeding colostrum, when the baby is allowed to eat. Right now she is on an IV. I hate being so far away right now! But I told my daughter to keep her legs crossed, and look what she did! Heh. Things are never easy with that girl. I can't wait to get home and hug her and meet the baby!
 
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