What are your rules?

I cannot see that I would ever have any sort of loving relationship with any sort of person who I would need to enforce rules with.

Zigzag, not to challenge you, but i'm just curious: What purpose do you think having your rule or mission statement serves? I know that I have a rule for myself, "Always use condoms" because I am prone to losing my head in the heat of the moment and I do sometimes have to lord it over myself to make sure the condoms come out. In this way, my rule serves me. If I were a person who religiously turned to the condom bowl, I wouldn't really need a rule. The behavior would just be ingrained in me. So I'm curious how the "Nobody gets hurt" rule serves you three, seeing as you're all people who wouldn't dream of intentionally hurting each other.

Just kind of using this to explore the purpose of rules, if you care to comment.
 
Zigzag, not to challenge you, but i'm just curious: What purpose do you think having your rule or mission statement serves? I know that I have a rule for myself, "Always use condoms" because I am prone to losing my head in the heat of the moment and I do sometimes have to lord it over myself to make sure the condoms come out. In this way, my rule serves me. If I werinte a person who religiously turned to the condom bowl, I wouldn't really need a rule. The behavior would just be ingrained in me. So I'm curious how the "Nobody gets hurt" rule serves you three, seeing as you're all people who wouldn't dream of intentionally hurting each other.

Just kind of using this to explore the purpose of rules, if you care to comment.

Its a simple statement of the core values (I believe) we aspire to and in my case guides my thoughts and actions. Sometimes, for example, when we have had discussions over the amount of time Angel will spend with Wolf or a big step, or a mismatch in expectations one of us may say this rule/statement/principle/moto and perhaps it makes us think before we present our position or continue.

I think many countries, organisations, teams, clubs, groups, religions etc have simple statement of core values. I live in France where our national moto is Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. Its not enforced, but it is an aspiration. I see no reason why a relationship cannot have a statement of values.

I would also add that it was occasionally useful in explaining how the relationship works to other people, especially concerned close friends or relatives. The "oh, and we have all agreed nobody should get hurt" statement has been enough for most people's curiosity or peace of mind.

And you are right I would not dream in a million years of intentionally hurting Angel or Wolf and I believe they are the same.
 
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Okay, so now you say you have no rules, and that "nobody gets hurt" is a guiding principle or core value - that I can understand. I see a guiding principle basically as an ideal to which you and your partners aspire - in this case, yours is not to hurt anyone. None of you can guarantee that no one will ever feel hurt, but if everyone makes an effort not to cause pain, it lessens the chances of hurting someone. Got it. But it was you who said in your post that your only "rule" is "nobody gets hurt," so I found it confusing. Since you did indeed call it a rule, it made me wonder how anyone can decree such a rule and enforce it, because that's what rules are, and having a rule that no one will ever get hurt is pretty much an impossible task. So I was curious and that's why I asked.
 
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Besides all the above, one sure-fire way to convince someone to do something is to tell them they are not allowed to do it.

I think this may be a bit over-simplified. Children test rules and boundaries to see what the consequences are (and that the consequences ACTUALLY happen). Adults should be able to foresee the consequences of their actions and adjust their behaviour accordingly.

Relating to the rules vs boundaries discussion...

I have a boundary that I won't be in a relationship with someone who is addicted to hard (by my definition) drugs. MrS has a rather addictive personality (as do I). I feel very, very strongly that even flirting with these drugs would be harmful for him (and me). Very early on in our relationship I instituted, and he agreed, to a "rule" that use of these drugs would be a deal-breaker for me, and end our relationship. Almost 23 years later - the rule still stands. He didn't immediately run out to try PCP just because it was on my "banned drugs" list.:rolleyes:

Over the years our other "rules" (i.e. agreements) have changed and evolved as we have. The boundaries have loosened. Most of them are now more tongue-in-cheek than anything else (i.e. "Don't stab your friends." "Don't set my toys on fire." "Don't set your friends on fire." "Don't set yourSELF on fire." [Dude likes to break this one, a LOT] etc.)

The issue, as I see it - is when people agree to "rules" (monogamy, safer sex practices, etc.) and then ignore their agreements. If you don't agree with a "rule", then don't agree to abide by it! Negotiate or break-up.
 
I think this may be a bit over-simplified.
Well, yeah, of course it is, and it was meant to be a little humorous, but there is a real nugget of truth to it. Most people don't want to be told what to do, and many people will just have to zig if you tell them to zag, but it isn't always done consciously.
 
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Okay, so now you say you have no rules, and that "nobody gets hurt" is a guiding princaple or core value - that I can understand. I see a guiding principle basically as an ideal to which you and your partners aspire - in this case, yours is not to hurt anyone. None of you can guarantee that no one will ever feel hurt, but if everyone makes an effort not to cause pain, it lessens the chances of hurting someone. Got it. But it was you who said in your post that your only "rule" is "nobody gets hurt," so I found it confusing. Since you did indeed call it a rule, it made me wonder how anyone can decree such a rule and enforce it, because that's what rules are, and having a rule that no one will ever get hurt is pretty much an impossible task. So I was curious and that's why I asked.

No problem. It depends on your definition of rule. We DO call it our only rule, but also say we have no rules, thats our personal use of language, or the dialect of our relationship I suppose. The dictionary describes Rule as "a. A prescribed guide for conduct or action. b. Laws or regulations". So in our case our rule or principle or whatever is more like a. For other people perhaps they prefer rules to be b.
 
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Our rules now (they are slightly changing) :
The are both my primary partners. I share my time and money between them equally as far as practically possible.
I have sex with N and L. N only has sex with me.
L can negotiate about new partners. No spontanous sex. He used to date a woman that N har met.
When we are all in the same place, we mostly go on dates all three of us. We spend most om the day together, and then I spend every other night with one on them.
When I am with just one if them, I will be in close contact with the other one.
We are fluent bonded. L has responsability for safer sex with others.
No unexpected pregnancies. I will use IUV until we all three decide about children.
Openness and honesty.
We have no specific rules about disclosure, but I usually share little sexual /private info between them. I usually don't kiss one on the lips in front of the other (I wouldn't in front of my friends either), but I get cuddly with both.

It is not about forbidding someone to do something. This is simply what works for us at this point.
 
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No problem. It depends on your definition of rule. We DO call it our only rule, but also say we have no rules, thats our personal use of language, or the dialect of our relationship I suppose. The dictionary describes Rule as "a. A prescribed guide for conduct or action. b. Laws or regulations". So in our case our rule or principle or whatever is more like a. For other people perhaps they prefer rules to be b.

This does also introduce another interesting issue with rules, that what one person may call a rule (meaning a law or regulation) another may also call a rule but actually consider to be just a guide. This is the old problem of communication seeming to happen but not, and why talking and listening are so important so we understand what other people mean and the context of their words.

A real example is a rule I have heard "we only do safe sex" but that has so many interpretations. Do they mean we always wear condoms or they can have unprotected sex with long term loves they trust are STI free. I can see how those interpretations could cause a massive falling out. Then what about unprotected oral. You could see that one person would call that sex and another would use the old Bill Clinton sex definition.

So there are probably rules and rules and the use of language is massively important.

I once read every conversation (and perhaps rule) could have three meanings. 1. What I believe I said. 2. What I actually said. 3. What the listener thinks I said.
 
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Always treat everyone with respect
Never force anyone to do anything they do not want too
Never tell anyone how to feel, how to act, or love
Always realize that you are part of something bigger and its not all about you
Feelings of hurt, does not mean someone hurt you
Be responsible for yourself first.
 
It's hard for me to think of things that are "rules" per se. But perhaps guidelines/agreements:

In each of my relationships with Jack and Roger, we've agreed to let the other know if one of us is interested in dating someone new before anything happens (unless it's a one night stand situation, in which case we'd let each other know soon after). The three of us have also agreed to use condoms/safe sex practices with new people, since I'm fluid bonded with both of them. I asked Roger to let me know if Taylor is dating/intimate with anyone else, since I may decide to use protection with him if he is still fluid bonded with her, and I would share that information about Taylor with Jack.

When I was considering dating someone new, let's call ze Indigo, a couple of months ago, I had talked it through with both my partners beforehand and had intended on asking Roger to let Taylor know, though Indigo and I decided not to for other reasons. Neither of my partners have decided to see anyone new, outside of Taylor.

I think there are ideals that we incorporate into our relationships, such as communicating, privacy, respect, etc. But these are more common things in healthy relationships and I haven't had much need to make these explicitly stated with my partners.
 
Oh the irony.... speaking of "no one gets hurt."

I was recently dating a guy who was out of town a lot, for 2-3 weeks at a time. I told him I would continue to be open to dating other men since we wouldn't be seeing each other that much. He said, "Fine with me. Just don't get hurt." As if he cared about my emotions.

A month later, on our 5th date, he took our SM impact play too far. I had to safeword out since he was ignoring my distress. Later, I told him it was too much and how I'd rather he let up when it got to that point. How if that experience was a 10, I'd prefer an 8, tops.

I was expressing my pain tolerance boundaries.

He broke up with me. And that hurt. Ugh. Dating sucks.
 
I see how some relationships work with some standard of expectations while others are much more fluid. I guess it truly depends on the individuals involved, their level of comfort, and where they are in each relationship. Definitely something to keep in mind. Thank you for all of the input and sharing. Next time I'll try to choose my words a bit more carefully. :eek:



Always treat everyone with respect
Never force anyone to do anything they do not want too
Never tell anyone how to feel, how to act, or love
Always realize that you are part of something bigger and its not all about you
Feelings of hurt, does not mean someone hurt you
Be responsible for yourself first.

You would think these would be common knowledge, but seeing it written out serves a great reminder that I need to be aware of the simplest things. THANK YOU FOR THIS!

It is not about forbidding someone to do something. This is simply what works for us at this point.

Thank you so much for that. Helps me see what I need to be conscious of when going through this transition.
 
I was expressing my pain tolerance boundaries.

He broke up with me. And that hurt. Ugh. Dating sucks.

I'm sorry that happened to you. He doesn't deserve you if he can't handle a conversation about YOUR pain tolerance. Hope things get better for you :(
 
The only real "rule" that Jon and I have is no unprotected sex with unknown people, and fluid-bonding should be discussed before doing it. "Discussed", mind you. Neither of us (none of us, including Lora) have any kind of veto over the other, so we all make our own decisions based off of what the others have decided.

Jon and I both prefer that we talk about *if* we'd have sex with a new partner before we have it, but we're both of the opinion that if we've met someone new and things get hot and heavy faster than anticipated, having protected sex is fine, though we'd want to have that discussion with our partner ASAP.

Since we live together and see each other regularly and there isn't any part of our lives that we withhold from each other, we tend to discuss everything (except intimate details of other relationships that would feel like a violation of the other persons'(s) privacy). A lot of our discussion is more aimed towards sharing where we are in live, how things are going overall, stuff like that.

Overall though, Jon and I both want the best for each other - including if that meant no longer being together. We both feel very strongly that we'll always want to be together, but that said, we both feel that the person who we owe it to the most to always make the "best" decisions for is ourselves and not anybody else.

I love what Whiskeyginger wrote - those are definitely the principals that I want to guide my life.
 
There are some really fantastic nuggets in this thread. I just wanted to add one thing. Polyamory is not a one size fits all lifestyle. Even within the same poly unit, there may be different needs and desires on what life should look like. Communication and respect are the one non-negotiable rules when living a polyamorous life. Everything else should be discussed and based on what the poly unit needs for a healthy, functional relationship. Only you and your partners know what rules will work for you.

Oh.. and trial and error isn't always a bad thing.
 
Communication and respect are the one non-negotiable rules when living a polyamorous life.
For you.

To me, it should even have to be a rule, it is just the way a decent person treats another. If you find yourself being treated like shit, then you're not in a relationship with a decent person, nor are you being decent to yourself. IMHO, if you're with someone who needs a rule like "You have to communicate and treat me with respect" it doesn't bode well for the relationship and speaks poorly of your ability to judge someone's character. I just don't get involved with people who need to be told such things.

Additionally, communication and respect are absolutely crucial to any successful monogamous relationship as well. Polyamory hasn't cornered the market on basic relationship skills.
 
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Oh I agree. Communication and respect should be a given in any relationship. Sadly, that's not always the case though. My main point was just that. Treat each other well and rules become a non-issue.

And, honestly, we don't lay down rules, per se. Communication and respect are just the only non-negotiables For us. They are our expectations. Just because they aren't verbalized does not mean they aren't rules.

However, I will say that communication is not one size fits all. Especially in polyamorous relationships, everyone needs to decide what level of communication works for your people. We are active in our local poly group and it's always fascinating to me how everyone makes their own brand of poly work well. Some people need full disclosure on every detail of other relationships, while others want very little information. There's no right way.... you just have to figure out what is needed.
 
We were in a poly triad for almost 40 years and had no rules and no problems. We all loved and had sex with each other. We were all free to do what we wanted to with each other. No jealousy or insecurities by any of us because we all loved each other deeply and know our worth to the triad. Our gf could never provide my wife what she needed from a man or the income I made. I would never have relationship with our gf without my wife. She is not the kind of woman I would marry but I still loved her. Our gf was our friend since childhood and considered as family long before we invited her into our marriage. She knw how much we loved her. So no rules were ever necessary. We did not even talk about our alternate lifestyle. We never mentioned the words, "poly" or "bisexual" once in all those years. It was just our normal life and we each fit perfectly into it naturally.

If there was ever a rule, even though it was not spoken, it would have to be from before our triad when I was dating other women and my wife did not want to date other guys. I left her for two months for a new and more exciting lover but came to my senses and went back to my wife who was waiting for me patiently. She said that she knows I will always go back to her and she is right. After that scare and seeing our best friends divorce because both spouses had lovers that they wanted to marry, we just naturally started to play together or not at all. We wife swapped and shared women but neither of us had a relationship that did not include the other. 45 years later and we still feel the same way because we know that it works and the other ways failed all of our poly friends. Ever wonder why there are so few long married poly marriages online? They are as hard to find as hen's teeth. We have yet to meet anyone in real life that lasted even close to our longevity. The few we found online disappeared when we asked the guy/girl to verify with a meet, phone call or skype.
 
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"We were in a poly triad for almost 40 years and had no rules ..."

Other than the OPP?

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"... and no problems."

Well that is remarkable. Every other couple and poly unit in the world that I know of has had a few problems at least. I always thought it was because humans are flawed and imperfect; now I know it's because we're not forming enough couple-centric MFF triads.

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"Ever wonder why there are so few long-married poly marriages online? They are as hard to find as hen's teeth."

Really? Well check out the chompers on yonder hen: Snowbunny and Brother-Husband (the other two in my V) have been married going on 20 years. Oh wait I get it, it doesn't count unless they're members on this forum. Or does it only count if they've been married for 38, 40, or 45 years?

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"The few we found online disappeared when we asked the guy/girl to verify with a meet, phone call or skype."

LOL, we have to prove it? Sure, we'll just hop on a plane and fly on down to Florida ... and we'll bring that all-important marriage certificate with us.

Seriously though, I'm not planning on disappearing -- for whatever that's worth. I believe your story, so why won't you believe mine?
 
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