"Red Flags" - Warning Signs in Relationships

[redpepper]

These are just my personal reactions... of course, everyone has different experiences, and I'm by no means claiming that everyone who says these things is from a positive perspective. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Thank you for saying this, because that list that thunkybunny wrote are mostly things I say, and I didn't fit any of the assumptions that followed. I was insulted, actually. Blunt indeed!

Just a thought-- you might be missing out on a good relationship if you are assuming all that to be true. It has served me in my life better to drop assumptions and find out for myself through communication and time about those I am interested in being with. Finding out what people are made of, rather than assuming what they are made of because of what they say and do seems to work better, in my experience. We are more than that. You are more than that. Would you want someone to assume you were this way if you said those things?

Breathesgirl, in regards to your vent, what the heck happened? Geesh, there is a story there. I just know it. Maybe I missed a post?

 

[thunkybunny]

Thank you for saying this because that list that thunkybunny wrote are mostly things I say, and I didn't fit any of the assumptions that followed. I was insulted, actually. Blunt indeed!

You might be missing out on a good relationship if you are assuming all that to be true. It has served me in my life better to drop assumptions and find out for myself through communication and time about those I am interested in being with. Finding out what people are made of, rather than assuming what they are made of because of what they say and do seems to work better, in my experience. We are more than that. You are more than that. Would you want someone to assume you were this way if you said those things?

Now who's assuming things?

Obviously, I'm not suggesting that 'red flags' are litmus tests. However, for some people, they add up and they repeat themselves. I'm fine with mistakes. People make mistakes, which are learning opportunities. To me, the biggest red flag is when people have neither the will to take responsibility for their mistakes, nor the interest in behaving ethically. In those situations, the interpretations I provided were accurate.

 

[redpepper]

Now who's assuming things?
Obviously, I'm not suggesting that 'red flags' are litmus tests. However, for some people, they add up and they repeat themselves. I'm fine with mistakes. People make mistakes, which are learning opportunities. To me, the biggest red flag is when people have neither the will to take responsibility for their mistakes, nor the interest in behaving ethically. In those situations, the interpretations I provided were accurate.

I wasn't assuming anything about you. I was telling you how what you said made me feel, agreeing with your own statement about being blunt, telling you about my experience, and asking you questions in order to understand you better. I do my best to not assume, because I have learned that I don't get to know people if I am closed off by my own mind. I am enjoying getting to know you, actually, and agree with what you are saying about responsibility.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

Also, I'd like to defend someone else's side of things. I wouldn't ever be in a 'don't ask, don't tell' relationship personally, but a good friend of mine is "the other woman" in one, and the situation is very stable and loving for all parties.

DADT has its merits if it's what works for both partners and they both consent to entering that arrangement.

My interpretation of the red flag was more that a person who's cheating on their partner tells people they're single. In other words, "the other woman" in the relationship you described obviously knows that the guy is married.

It's bad enough to cheat on your partner, without leading the other person on, thinking that they can develop a long-term relationship with you when there's no chance of that happening.

 

[thunkybunny]

A person who has never been single is a big red flag for me. In my experience, it takes a person who can be healthy alone to be healthy enough for a romantic relationship.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

it takes a person who can be healthy alone to be healthy enough for a romantic relationship.

I agree with this in many ways. I am much more capable of loving completely since I found solace in being alone. True healthy companionship is a reward for finding peace alone, as opposed to being a requirement to be healthy, for me.

 

[Breathesgirl]

A person who has never been single is a big red flag for me. In my experience, it takes a person who can be healthy alone to be healthy enough for a romantic relationship.

Amen, amen and AMEN!

I've lost track of the times I've been in chat rooms where people have recently broken up with a s/o and are at a loss as to what to do with themselves because they've forgotten how to live by themselves, how to love themselves, how to validate themselves without having someone else do it for them.

My longest-lasting relationships, except for the current one, were with men who left Momma's apron strings (in one case, Uncle's apron strings) and had absolutely NO clue how to interact without a chaperone, how to cook, how to spend time with themselves and actually enjoy it, how to do anything really, other than ask for ME to get/do whatever for them!

Yes, thinking about it, someone who enjoys spending time by/with themselves as much as they enjoy spending time with friends and family is a MUST!

 

[twig]

The biggest tip-off for me that there's a problem is the relationship being really stuck on the same ground, which is a problem for one person and not the others, with no evidence that the stuck person is working on being stuck, or cares that (s)he is. Opening up the relationship doesn't work if one person is giving no ground on the opening-- demanding hardcore restrictions that aren't going to be temporary at all. (It was 'no making out' in my case, and I still get angry thinking about it years later.. clearly I still have healing to do. )

Ugh! Then there's the double standard when one partner has few restrictions while another has many.

@thunkybunny: Yes, what S describes is a bit one-sided. That is to be expected, as she is only one side of her relationship(s). As the other side of one of her relationships, I have almost exactly opposite red flag settings. The thing our red flags have in common is if the other is not working on the problem.

 

[thunkybunny]

The thing our red flags have in common is if the other is not working on the problem.

That's the point. It's too easy for one party to say they're struggling and demand that everyone else stop living their lives, all the while doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to learn or adapt to changes. This kind of dynamic happens in many types of social situations, not just poly. It's a human problem. The intransigent party is most likely to use psychological or physical violence to bully others into submission, controlling others instead of loving them. While compassion demands that we care for those who are having difficulties, friends cannot enable (self-)abusers. It is incumbent upon friends to signal when the slowest party's demands slip from mere cries for compassion to abusive patterns. When this becomes a long-term problem, it may be time to get professional help.

 

[redpepper]

It is incumbent upon friends to signal when the slowest party's demands slip from mere cries for compassion to abusive patterns. When this becomes a long-term problem, it may be time to get professional help.

I totally agree with you here. It becomes a red flag, for me, when things are left because of an inability to deal EVER, rather than an inability to deal at the moment because I am overwhelmed. This is my version of the whole idea of going at the pace of the one that is struggling the most. I assume in this (at least in the interim, and until it becomes known otherwise) that that person is struggling because they need some time to figure things out, in order to be on the same wavelength. Otherwise it can become a pattern.

I'm not sure about abusive. I might need an example for that one. I guess if I fell into that pattern over and over it could be abusive, and then professional help could be useful.

 

[GroundedSpirit]

That's the point. It's too easy for one party to say they're struggling and demand that everyone else stop living their lives, all the while doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to learn or adapt to changes...
It is incumbent upon friends to signal when the slowest party's demands slip from mere cries for compassion to abusive patterns. When this becomes a long-term problem, it may be time to get professional help.

Maybe a better term here to avoid confusion would be "manipulative" vs "abusive". Abusive covers a lot of ground, and although an enabled manipulator is prime to become an abuser, in the beginning it's more likely to start with selfish manipulation. Power games.

But we're getting a bit off track here.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

A person who has never been single is a big red flag for me. In my experience, it takes a person who can be healthy alone to be healthy enough for a romantic relationship.

How about this one? People who have never been dumped. Do they always just bail when the going gets tough? They don't know how it feels to be dumped so they may not be as sensitive when doing it.

Maybe they start to assume and act like they're god's gift to [insert gender here], to make you "work" for their affection.

 

[thunkybunny]

How about this one? People who have never been dumped. Do they always just bail when the going gets tough? They don't know how it feels to be dumped so they may not be as sensitive when doing it.
Maybe they start to think they're god's gift to [insert gender here], to make you "work" for their affection.

Oh, good one! Those people miss out by never having relationships or friendships, which require work.

 

[kapablekeri]

A long-term pattern vs working through a sticky issue

This is a big one for me, because I always hang around while they are creating a pattern, but that is my co-dependent side, and there are all sorts of red flags for that.

agreeing to accept less
not being honest with what their (my) needs have been
hanging on and enabling the destructive pattern
knowing you are being manipulated and allowing it to continue
someone who would rather be with anyone than be by themselves
lying/deception
becoming overly defensive over a situation or question (always in my mind I hear, "I believe thou doth protest too much")

In my poly relationship, I am long distance and the other two partners live together. I know when she is beginning to be destructive to the relationship when I hear things like:

I don't get any alone time with him (when I have been away for 2 months and am visiting for 2 weeks)
I don't have any intimacy with him (again, same timeline)

Thanks for this post.

 

[Insane00illusions]

Coded messages:

"I want a relationship...with no expectations" = I don't want a relationship

"...just friends...casual...." = I don't love my friends (I don't have many friends either)

"I don't like drama." = I take no responsibility for the dramas that I create.

"Erring on the side of caution" = I'm waaay too scared to do this thoughtfully, so I'll just default to doing nothing since doing nothing is the safest and most comfortable strategy against adapting to change.

"Going at the pace of the slowest person/the weakest link" = Everybody stop what they're doing while I avoid doing any work to adapt to the new situation. Meanwhile, I'll actively sabotage the new relationship.

"...need time to develop trust" = My partner trusts you, but I don't trust my partner's judgment. I don't love my partner either, but nobody else can be with them.

"...to protect my investment/wife/husband/family" = I see you as a foreign threat, not one of us. I do not value anything you have to offer. I must burn down the village in order to save the village.

"...not ready to be friends..." = I need more time to sabotage the new relationship.

"I want respect...." = But only for the established relationship(s) and partner(s). New relationship(s) and partner(s) do not deserve respect.

"You are the secondary." = Kiss my ass and do what I say.

"I have xx years of experience." = I don't have anything to learn.

"We practice tantric sex." = So I'm melded with my partner 24/7, even when they're in the bathroom.

"I'm Buddhist." = I'm more spiritual than you. I have nothing to learn.

"Personal power" = You have neither the right nor the reason to feel bad about the way I treat you.

"Emotional maturity" = I have mistaken stoicism for emotional maturity. When I act out my emotions, I am reasonable. When other people express their doubts and emotions, they are emotionally immature.

I am copying this, printing it and taping it to my wall. People think I am a little harsh or blunt as well, but this is spot on.

need time to develop trust = My partner trusts you, but I don't trust my partner's judgment. I don't love my partner either, but nobody else can be with them.
not ready to be friends = I need more time to sabotage the new relationship.

This just blows my mind, but I've seen people do this.

 

[Primarilyhurt]

Sadly, that isn't so reliable when that partner manipulates the situation out of jealousy, given their partner's NRE. Kinda lame, really. I guess it means that the established relationship is too weak for new partners to enter.

I agree. And, if that is a possibility, that in itself is a huge red flag.

I would add, from my experiences:

1. When agreements are being renegotiated over and over again in a short amount of time.

2. When agreements continue to be questioned or subtly violated by one party or another.

3. When the new relationship is moving too fast for the established partner (i.e., conversations about how X would like Y to move in after their kids are grown, when they've only been dating for a couple of months)

4. When one pair in the relationship starts making huge life decisions without consulting the other(s) and then informing those others of these decisions later.

5. When there is repeated miscommunication and misunderstanding, despite loads of communicating

6. When things that were 'deal-breakers' in the original relationship (such as no kids, no selling the house, no pets, etc.) are overlooked in the new partner.

7. When the new partner is given the opportunity to ask questions and says that they have none.

8. When the new partner suggests (even once, and especially repeatedly) that something is wrong with the existing relationship (such as abuse, codependency, unequal income).

9. When scheduling becomes a stressful activity for even one partner.

10. When negotiations do not result in compromises, but merely one party convincing/coercing the other to let them do XYZ.

11. When one party changes their mind about something (a boundary, an event, a schedule, etc.) and the other(s) refuse to consider that change; put another way, when one party or more seem to make lots of snap decisions, rather than allowing adequate time for careful consideration.

That's all I can think of for now, but I am sure more will come up.