Spork
Active member
Want to post about something...only tangentially related to our topic.
Just saw a post on Facebook where a friend said she was skeptical of men who claimed to be feminists, especially hetero-cis men.
It made me think.
I have already said that I consider myself more of a humanist than a feminist. I don't care if those things are functionally the same. I want a word that feels inclusive, because I want a team of human beings trying to make people in general kinder and more respectful to one another. I don't want anyone shut out of the conversation, if they have it in them to bring a positive contribution. And while I do find it valid to focus on the issues that one group deals with, especially during a time where there is particular relevance...I never want anyone to feel that just because we're talking about problems women often have, that I'm dismissive of men's issues. I don't like playing the "I've got it just as bad, no I've got it worse, you shut up because I have real problems" game. I think we can be allies to one another if we don't alienate anyone...and that's what I strive for.
Now with regard to men who claim to be feminists.
Please make sure to keep in mind the "not all" caveat, I'm not saying all of any group does any thing. I just wonder about something I have seen several times now. An illustrative anecdote:
Was at a workshop at a kink club on humiliation. A man who was a submissive and who identified as a feminist (strongly) was a volunteer demo bottom for humiliation techniques. People were making him say things that went against his values, to a room full of onlookers, to humiliate him. Sexist things, to make him feel awful about himself. I suggested he repeat that "Women can't have male friends. Men don't see you as human beings, they only want to fuck you." (Aw, I'm projecting, isn't that adorable.
)
He said, "But...I actually agree with that."
And this goes to the heart of the pain I feel in whatever disconnect is between the genders...I don't want to be made to feel like LESS OF A PERSON because of the nature of male sexuality. And I OFTEN feel that it is our cultural norm, and no one around me sees what is wrong with it.
Seriously, this makes me want to end myself, some days. Or at the very least, refuse to participate in any interaction with a male ever again. It's a VERY hot issue for me. One of the hottest. Need a male dehumanize a female in order to engage his sexuality with her? Why?? Am I wrong to think that's horrifying?
And a thing I have noticed...I've met a number of submissive men who are full of hate. But instead of directing it outward to women, they direct it inward to themselves. The very nature of their submission is a feeling of general inferiority and self-loathing. And they call themselves feminists, and they hate other men...they hate maleness, in general. But instead of saying "I can be a man, and be GOOD, and I can be a man and treat others with respect" they've decided that all things male are bad, and are hell-bent to take the punishment for what they were born.
I really do not see that as feminism. I see that as an acceptance of an unacceptable toxicity. And not wanting to be that, but thinking it is unavoidable, and so trying to do penance for it.
Now of course I have met sub guys who were great people, great partners, and not participating in this mentality, in the scene. Mostly the guys I've seen who bear this mindset come to Fetlife, or their first party, in a fever pitch to find a woman to punish them...and when it doesn't materialize immediately, they get frustrated and disappear. Sometimes they fasten onto a Domme they meet in obsessive, even abusive ways.
I guess part of why I want to discuss this...here, or somewhere...is that I think the narratives spinning out in our society are having some odd repercussions in certain people's minds and lives. And the anti-PC crowd doesn't seem to grasp the connection between words and underlying ideas, let alone how they play out in the ways humans treat one another.
As to great or not great... Ravenscroft, I have often said, I love my country. The mountains over Colorado Springs are majestic today, the sky is blue, the sun is shining, the clouds are fluffy, and I know hundreds of people who are in general, really really great. Smart, lovely, creative, interesting, and compassionate human beings. I LOVE my country. America has in its own way been pretty great my entire life, at least for me. But. Is there room for improvement? Oh you bet your ass. Lots. We are a work in progress, for sure. I get so annoyed with the "this country is going to hell in a handbasket" talk. No it's not. Not any more than it ever has been. Now, our politics might be...that's another story...but we are more than that!
Just saw a post on Facebook where a friend said she was skeptical of men who claimed to be feminists, especially hetero-cis men.
It made me think.
I have already said that I consider myself more of a humanist than a feminist. I don't care if those things are functionally the same. I want a word that feels inclusive, because I want a team of human beings trying to make people in general kinder and more respectful to one another. I don't want anyone shut out of the conversation, if they have it in them to bring a positive contribution. And while I do find it valid to focus on the issues that one group deals with, especially during a time where there is particular relevance...I never want anyone to feel that just because we're talking about problems women often have, that I'm dismissive of men's issues. I don't like playing the "I've got it just as bad, no I've got it worse, you shut up because I have real problems" game. I think we can be allies to one another if we don't alienate anyone...and that's what I strive for.
Now with regard to men who claim to be feminists.
Please make sure to keep in mind the "not all" caveat, I'm not saying all of any group does any thing. I just wonder about something I have seen several times now. An illustrative anecdote:
Was at a workshop at a kink club on humiliation. A man who was a submissive and who identified as a feminist (strongly) was a volunteer demo bottom for humiliation techniques. People were making him say things that went against his values, to a room full of onlookers, to humiliate him. Sexist things, to make him feel awful about himself. I suggested he repeat that "Women can't have male friends. Men don't see you as human beings, they only want to fuck you." (Aw, I'm projecting, isn't that adorable.
)He said, "But...I actually agree with that."
And this goes to the heart of the pain I feel in whatever disconnect is between the genders...I don't want to be made to feel like LESS OF A PERSON because of the nature of male sexuality. And I OFTEN feel that it is our cultural norm, and no one around me sees what is wrong with it.
Seriously, this makes me want to end myself, some days. Or at the very least, refuse to participate in any interaction with a male ever again. It's a VERY hot issue for me. One of the hottest. Need a male dehumanize a female in order to engage his sexuality with her? Why?? Am I wrong to think that's horrifying?
And a thing I have noticed...I've met a number of submissive men who are full of hate. But instead of directing it outward to women, they direct it inward to themselves. The very nature of their submission is a feeling of general inferiority and self-loathing. And they call themselves feminists, and they hate other men...they hate maleness, in general. But instead of saying "I can be a man, and be GOOD, and I can be a man and treat others with respect" they've decided that all things male are bad, and are hell-bent to take the punishment for what they were born.
I really do not see that as feminism. I see that as an acceptance of an unacceptable toxicity. And not wanting to be that, but thinking it is unavoidable, and so trying to do penance for it.
Now of course I have met sub guys who were great people, great partners, and not participating in this mentality, in the scene. Mostly the guys I've seen who bear this mindset come to Fetlife, or their first party, in a fever pitch to find a woman to punish them...and when it doesn't materialize immediately, they get frustrated and disappear. Sometimes they fasten onto a Domme they meet in obsessive, even abusive ways.
I guess part of why I want to discuss this...here, or somewhere...is that I think the narratives spinning out in our society are having some odd repercussions in certain people's minds and lives. And the anti-PC crowd doesn't seem to grasp the connection between words and underlying ideas, let alone how they play out in the ways humans treat one another.
As to great or not great... Ravenscroft, I have often said, I love my country. The mountains over Colorado Springs are majestic today, the sky is blue, the sun is shining, the clouds are fluffy, and I know hundreds of people who are in general, really really great. Smart, lovely, creative, interesting, and compassionate human beings. I LOVE my country. America has in its own way been pretty great my entire life, at least for me. But. Is there room for improvement? Oh you bet your ass. Lots. We are a work in progress, for sure. I get so annoyed with the "this country is going to hell in a handbasket" talk. No it's not. Not any more than it ever has been. Now, our politics might be...that's another story...but we are more than that!
