Wife is wanting to open our marriage up

K

KindaNewToThis

New member
Hi, so this is a really hard thing for me to open up about and talk about because of its personal and at times hurtful nature, but recently my wife and myself had talked about her sharing photos etc online and the idea of us having another partner in bed should the opportunity arise. This was exciting, and seemed like a great idea at first, but then she later said the next day she wasn't sure if she wanted to do this together because it would be awkward, and instead was thinking of being able to see other men down the road.

Now this is hard for me personally, not because of anything to do with open relationships or Polyamory (I had been in a few open relationships when I was much younger, before my wife, and I have what I originally thought was a surprising number of Poly friends before finding out how common CNM is), but because me and my spouse tried to be in an open relationship a decade ago that ended up disastrous to say the least, nearly destroyed our relationship and left me with a good amount of unhealed mental wounds. The problems didn't come from my spouse being with a other person, but in the fact she continually lied during the whole situation (including the facts that led to us trying to explore opening up), which led to several online emotional affairs afterwards that didn't end until our honeymoon when I told her it was either me or them (a shitty ultimatum I know, but by this point she had been faking illness to spend time online with guys, including one she had once ended our engagement over). I know her actions weren't done to me maliciously, but because she was just so overly excited by something new and fresh (we had been together since teenagers) and she just never stopped to think how her actions and lies would hurt me.

We ended up trying to make a go of our relationship, and ended up unexpectedly having our first child, and to be honest I mainly stayed for their sake at first before coming to love my wife again and moving past the hurt she had purposefully caused me. Our sex life suffered heavily though, pretty much disappearing after she had to end the other relationship and online affairs, partly due to those having been a major source of excitment and self validation and her depression becoming very severe over what she ahd done (which also sadly resulted in us working to help her get better, while i never had a chance to heal from everything). Years later my wife decided she wNtsd to open up a profile where we shared serial and pornographic pictures and videos we took of us and my wife, which was great, our sexlife improved immensely, my wife's sense of validation and arousal was at the highest it had been for years, and things were going amazingly. But this ended after my wife had a severe depressive episode following a drunken fight where she confessed to wanting to sleep with a close mutual friend and ending our marriage. Thankfully she realized the next morning what she had done and while we didn't end our marriage our sexlife disappeared and her depression came back severely, which was made worse by post partum from our second child's birth.

Over the next few years we would have sex every 1-2 months, though she admitted while she loves the sex she didnt really ever want it (maybe 2-3 times a year). This is when she told me that the she didn't not just want to have sex with me, but didn't have sexual feelings for anyone and suggested I find another woman to sleep with. The problem with this, was that she also wanted to be able to sleep with other men at the same time, which was confusing and hurtful since while on one hand she said her near complete lack of sexual attraction to me wasn't because of me but because she wasn't attracted to anyone, but on the other hand she was saying she wanted to sleep with other men even though she hadn't wanted to sleep with me really for the last few years. This ended when I pointed out how this was deeply hurtful, and the conversation became moot when she ended up having her health problems worsening resulting in multiple hospitalizations and me going from pulling 15hr days (between work and work at home) to 20hr days as she recovered over nearly 4 years.

Now her health had greatly improved, and for the first time in nearly half a decade she is able to help around the home, resulting in me finally having more time to sleep and us to enjoy things as a family. (I'm even getting 6+hrs of sleep a day, which is amazing). And for several weeks her sex drive increased to huge new levels, going from every few months to several times a day.

Which is when she brought up the idea of taking and sharing pictures etc. She had been feeling really low because of so many years of depression, 2 babies etc and wanted to feel good about herself. I was and am fully supportive of this, and we even talked about the idea of having a third/threescore sometime as we explored and enjoyed my wife's new sex drive.

Then as always, things came to a crash, but this time it was me when she told me that she actually wasn't too sure if she wanted to explore together, but she wanted to be open and see men on her own possibly, and that "I couldn't satisfy her" (she later on explained she meant that her desire to see what sex with other people was like and to have fun, not satisfy on a personal level, but the wording and how she said it was damaging to say the least). I told her how I felt hurt by what she had said, how I wasn't comfortable with that just now and how fast things were going (we had only talked about sharing photos and her replying to comments the day before) , and that it seemed like she only really wanted or needed me around when she was ill and then wanted to go off and have fun while I was left behind when she was healthy. Needless to say this conversation turned into a massive fight, followed by both of us being hurt (me for her not seeing why this hurt me and how I wasn't okay with everything being just how she wanted it, and her for me being so upset by her finally being comfortable to express her sexual desires.)

Now I am looking for more resources for myself (she is against couple counselling or six therapy due to having years of being sexually repressed and feeling that she was wrong/disgusting for having any sexual feelings) so that I can find a way to move past my trust issues and jealousy (not over her having sex with another man, but me being left behind or abandoned to take care of the home while she gets to go out and enjoy herself only). I truly want my wife to be happy here, and I am fully willing (and would enjoy) to be in an Open or Poly relationship, I just don't know how to move on from the trust issues and insecurities, and while am currently trying to get into counseling myself finally (literally haven't had a chance the last 7 years due to work, family and the wife's illness and our near complete acknowledge of support) I would also love resources or input from people ACTUALLY in the Poly community about how to navigate these feelings, issues and hopefully give some insight on how we can move forward happily together.
 
Welcome.

I hope you feel better for the vent and airing out some.

I mean this kindly, ok? It may not be what you want to hear.

I could be totally wrong in my impression, but here is how it sounds to an internet stranger.
  • You and wife have dated since teens.
  • After the first mess trying to do open, she dumped you in favor of one of her emotional affair dudes.
    • Rather than letting the engagement be over because it was a disaster and left you with unhealed mental wounds? You took her back.
  • New 2nd mess of taking marriage vows when you are not really in love with her.
    • But she got unexpectedly pregnant. Rather than divorce her and be present for the child as a divorced co-parent? You stuck with the sexless marriage where you both put energy into her healing and neglected yours.
  • Third mess where she wanted to sleep with your friend and end the marriage. But she got sick so you stuck around to tend to that rather than break up.
  • Wife has a long history of depression, up and downy moods, some hospitalizations, and no sex or meh sex with you.
  • You have a long history of having no defined limit of tolerance. Just putting up with more and more and more.... But where's it STOP?
  • Over and over again out of duty, you kept doing stuff for her even though it's dinging your OWN mental health, energy, etc.
  • You sound like you basically do most of the work and carry this relationship.
  • You are run down to the max.
  • You have been doing this for 10+ years.
  • This self neglect of you is ok because....?
Basically?

You alone are not enough for her. She craves the variety of having other partners. It's how she bolsters her self esteem -- through external validation of her attractiveness. And/or maybe how she gets the "high" and/or a way to avoid dealing with her stuff. Who knows? Only she would.

On your end? You don't trust her to be a solid hinge. Too many times she just did stuff in the past on impulse, lied to you, led to fighting, etc. So no. You don't want to jump into a new wonky poly thing.

You suggested couples counseling or sex therapy to help THIS time around be different.
She refuses to go to counseling with you. She says because she doesn't want to be shamed for her sexuality.

I kinda wonder if it's because she doesn't want to take personal responsibility.

So if nothing is gonna be new or different? If she's basically saying "Hey, let's ignore my track record. How about you and me jump into a new wonky open/poly thing?"

I think it is ok for you to say a simple "No, thanks. I won't be doing that." Because you have already tried it that wonky way. And her past behavior does not inspire confidence in you that anything will be different. So why bother doing it again just to get more of same?

Are you able to tell your wife "No, thanks. I won't be doing that" and set personal boundaries?

so that I can find a way to move past my trust issues and jealousy (not over her having sex with another man, but me being left behind or abandoned to take care of the home while she gets to go out and enjoy herself only).
Click to expand...

But why do you have to get over this? Maybe it is ok not to trust that anything will be different and be cautious for your own well being. Because it's been your reality. You doing all the work.

If she is not up for counseling or sex therapy? She's not making new suggestions for how this time it will be different?

How about a trial separation then?

I wonder if you have considered saying something like

"No, thanks. I don't want to do wonky poly. For me to be up for it -- something has to be different about this time. You aren't up for what I suggest -- some counseling or therapy first. You don't suggest new ideas.​
​
I don't want to be in your way if you think that's what would make you happy. So how about we have a peaceful trial separation? One of us moves out. We share custody of the kids. Then you can go poly date how you want? I can date how I want. We give it a year's lease. And then we decide if we want to try again to be together or if it's best to continue on to a permanent divorce."​

Because then you'd reduce your work to just taking care of the kids part time and no more taking care of her. You create some space/time to work on your OWN healing, get some rest. And you are trying something different rather than more of same.

If you have been together since teens? This wacky is the only life you've known? Maybe it's time to find out what other way life could be. Even if initially scary to think about.

I would also love resources or input from people ACTUALLY in the Poly community about how to navigate these feelings, issues and hopefully give some insight on how we can move forward happily together.
Click to expand...

I don't think any healthy open/poly people would be excited to do wonky poly. Where's the pleasure in that? Sometimes poly people LISTEN to what the feelings are saying. And rather than force something to keep going in weird or wonky ways just to stay together? They take a step back to assess.

They might go "This is not a healthy dynamic. Poly or otherwise. I could make decisions to improve my own life and my own happiness. It doesn't HAVE to be a "we" any more. We could move forward apart rather than together. "

I think maybe you are back at at a place you have been before. Struggling with internal conflict. You don't want to break up but staying here like this is hurting you... so like rock/hard place. Is that true?

I encourage you to seek counseling, just for yourself. Slow this down.

I will hope that she gets past this initial urge and decides to take a slower approach, actually work on her issues, and deal with counseling. Do the foundation work required to heal herself while you heal you. And then move on to do healthy open/poly together.

But if she just wants skip all that and jump in to do new wacky? And you prefer something more stable and less wacky? You are outgrowing this dynamic? It's ok for you to decline that offer. You have to look after your OWN well being. It's ok to go for a trial separation and you go CREATE your own stability.

You might take a look at

www.scarleteen.com

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.
www.scarleteen.com www.scarleteen.com

I encourage you to find a counselor and discuss if this is a healthy marriage for you to be in.

Because life is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one.

Galagirl
 
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Get therapy and figure out why you are white knighting this women. She does not want to go to therapy because she does not want her level of manipulation to be acknowledged.

Something going on with your self-worth since you tolerate a toxic woman for so long. I feel bad for you. She lied to you before and got away with it. She will lie this time too. Can you not do any better than this woman?
 
Welcome.
GalaGirl said:
I hope you feel better for the vent and airing out some.

I mean this kindly, ok? It may not be what you want to hear.

I could be totally wrong in my impression, but here is how it sounds to an internet stranger.
  • You and wife have dated since teens.
  • After the first mess trying to do open, she dumped you in favor of one of her emotional affair dudes.
    • Rather than letting the engagement be over because it was a disaster and left you with unhealed mental wounds? You took her back.
  • New 2nd mess of taking marriage vows when you are not really in love with her.
    • But she got unexpectedly pregnant. Rather than divorce her and be present for the child as a divorced co-parent? You stuck with the sexless marriage where you both put energy into her healing and neglected yours.
  • Third mess where she wanted to sleep with your friend and end the marriage. But she got sick so you stuck around to tend to that rather than break up.
  • Wife has a long history of depression, up and downy moods, some hospitalizations, and no sex or meh sex with you.
  • You have a long history of having no defined limit of tolerance. Just putting up with more and more and more.... But where's it STOP?
  • Over and over again out of duty, you kept doing stuff for her even though it's dinging your OWN mental health, energy, etc.
  • You sound like you basically do most of the work and carry this relationship.
  • You are run down to the max.
  • You have been doing this for 10+ years.
  • This self neglect of you is ok because....?
Basically?

You alone are not enough for her. She craves the variety of having other partners. It's how she bolsters her self esteem -- through external validation of her attractiveness. And/or maybe how she gets the "high" and/or a way to avoid dealing with her stuff. Who knows? Only she would.

On your end? You don't trust her to be a solid hinge. Too many times she just did stuff in the past on impulse, lied to you, led to fighting, etc. So no. You don't want to jump into a new wonky poly thing.

You suggested couples counseling or sex therapy to help THIS time around be different.
She refuses to go to counseling with you. She says because she doesn't want to be shamed for her sexuality.

I kinda wonder if it's because she doesn't want to take personal responsibility.

So if nothing is gonna be new or different? If she's basically saying "Hey, let's ignore my track record. How about you and me jump into a new wonky open/poly thing?"

I think it is ok for you to say a simple "No, thanks. I won't be doing that." Because you have already tried it that wonky way. And her past behavior does not inspire confidence in you that anything will be different. So why bother doing it again just to get more of same?

Are you able to tell your wife "No, thanks. I won't be doing that" and set personal boundaries?



But why do you have to get over this? Maybe it is ok not to trust that anything will be different.
Because it's been your reality. You doing all the work.

If she is not up for counseling or sex therapy? She's not making new suggestions?

How about a trial separation then?

I wonder if you have considered saying something like

"No, thanks. I don't want to do wonky poly. For me to be up for it -- something has to be different about this time. You aren't up for what I suggest -- some counseling or therapy first. You don't suggest new ideas.​
​
I don't want to be in your way if you think that's what would make you happy. So how about we have a peaceful trial separation? One of us moves out. We share custody of the kids. Then you can go poly date how you want? I can date how I want. We give it a year's lease. And then we decide if we want to try again to be together or if it's best to continue on to a permanent divorce."​

Because then you'd reduce your work to just taking care of the kids part time and no more taking care of her. You create some space/time to work on your OWN healing, get some rest. And you are trying something different rather than more of same.

If you have been together since teens? This wacky is the only life you've known? Maybe it's time to find out what other way life could be. Even if initially scary to think about.



I don't think any healthy open/poly people would be excited to do wonky poly. Where's the pleasure in that? Sometimes poly people LISTEN to what the feelings are saying. And rather than force something to keep going in weird or wonky ways just to stay together? They take a step back to assess.

They might go "This is not a healthy dynamic. Poly or otherwise. I could make decisions to improve my own life and my own happiness. It doesn't HAVE to be a "we" any more. We could move forward apart rather than together. "

I think maybe you are back at at a place you have been before. Struggling with internal conflict. You don't want to break up but staying here like this is hurting you... so like rock/hard place. Is that true?

I encourage you to seek counseling, just for yourself. Slow this down.

I will hope that she gets past this initial urge and decides to take a slower approach, actually work on her issues, and deal with counseling. Do the foundation work required to heal herself while you heal you. And then move on to do healthy open/poly together.

But if she just wants skip all that and jump in to do new wacky? And you prefer something more stable and less wacky? You are outgrowing this dynamic? It's ok for you to decline that offer. You have to look after your OWN well being. It's ok to go for a trial separation and you go CREATE your own stability.

You might take a look at

www.scarleteen.com

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.
www.scarleteen.com www.scarleteen.com

I encourage you to find a counselor and discuss if this is a healthy marriage for you to be in.

Because life is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one.

Galagirl
Click to expand...
This response x 2.

KindaNew: i read this after midnight last night (I’m in Australia) and was floored to read your situation. Sure, we’re only hearing one side - but even if half of what you’re describing is true, it sounds terrible.

I don’t have practical experience being poly - but I’ve read up on it a lot and what you’re describing isn’t anywhere (at least anywhere credible) as an example of what true polyamory is that I’ve seen.

IMHO, using sex related shame as an excuse to NOT get therapy before opening a marriage is complete BS. That’s akin to saying you can’t go to the hospital right now because you’ve been in an accident.

Gala has written a very well considered response and the only thing I would add to it is a hug for you. You deserve so much better.
 
GalaGirl said:
Welcome.

I hope you feel better for the vent and airing out some.

I mean this kindly, ok? It may not be what you want to hear.

I could be totally wrong in my impression, but here is how it sounds to an internet stranger.
  • You and wife have dated since teens.
  • After the first mess trying to do open, she dumped you in favor of one of her emotional affair dudes.
    • Rather than letting the engagement be over because it was a disaster and left you with unhealed mental wounds? You took her back.
  • New 2nd mess of taking marriage vows when you are not really in love with her.
    • But she got unexpectedly pregnant. Rather than divorce her and be present for the child as a divorced co-parent? You stuck with the sexless marriage where you both put energy into her healing and neglected yours.
  • Third mess where she wanted to sleep with your friend and end the marriage. But she got sick so you stuck around to tend to that rather than break up.
  • Wife has a long history of depression, up and downy moods, some hospitalizations, and no sex or meh sex with you.
  • You have a long history of having no defined limit of tolerance. Just putting up with more and more and more.... But where's it STOP?
  • Over and over again out of duty, you kept doing stuff for her even though it's dinging your OWN mental health, energy, etc.
  • You sound like you basically do most of the work and carry this relationship.
  • You are run down to the max.
  • You have been doing this for 10+ years.
  • This self neglect of you is ok because....?
Basically?

You alone are not enough for her. She craves the variety of having other partners. It's how she bolsters her self esteem -- through external validation of her attractiveness. And/or maybe how she gets the "high" and/or a way to avoid dealing with her stuff. Who knows? Only she would.

On your end? You don't trust her to be a solid hinge. Too many times she just did stuff in the past on impulse, lied to you, led to fighting, etc. So no. You don't want to jump into a new wonky poly thing.

You suggested couples counseling or sex therapy to help THIS time around be different.
She refuses to go to counseling with you. She says because she doesn't want to be shamed for her sexuality.

I kinda wonder if it's because she doesn't want to take personal responsibility.

So if nothing is gonna be new or different? If she's basically saying "Hey, let's ignore my track record. How about you and me jump into a new wonky open/poly thing?"

I think it is ok for you to say a simple "No, thanks. I won't be doing that." Because you have already tried it that wonky way. And her past behavior does not inspire confidence in you that anything will be different. So why bother doing it again just to get more of same?

Are you able to tell your wife "No, thanks. I won't be doing that" and set personal boundaries?



But why do you have to get over this? Maybe it is ok not to trust that anything will be different and be cautious for your own well being. Because it's been your reality. You doing all the work.

If she is not up for counseling or sex therapy? She's not making new suggestions for how this time it will be different?

How about a trial separation then?

I wonder if you have considered saying something like

"No, thanks. I don't want to do wonky poly. For me to be up for it -- something has to be different about this time. You aren't up for what I suggest -- some counseling or therapy first. You don't suggest new ideas.​
​
I don't want to be in your way if you think that's what would make you happy. So how about we have a peaceful trial separation? One of us moves out. We share custody of the kids. Then you can go poly date how you want? I can date how I want. We give it a year's lease. And then we decide if we want to try again to be together or if it's best to continue on to a permanent divorce."​

Because then you'd reduce your work to just taking care of the kids part time and no more taking care of her. You create some space/time to work on your OWN healing, get some rest. And you are trying something different rather than more of same.

If you have been together since teens? This wacky is the only life you've known? Maybe it's time to find out what other way life could be. Even if initially scary to think about.



I don't think any healthy open/poly people would be excited to do wonky poly. Where's the pleasure in that? Sometimes poly people LISTEN to what the feelings are saying. And rather than force something to keep going in weird or wonky ways just to stay together? They take a step back to assess.

They might go "This is not a healthy dynamic. Poly or otherwise. I could make decisions to improve my own life and my own happiness. It doesn't HAVE to be a "we" any more. We could move forward apart rather than together. "

I think maybe you are back at at a place you have been before. Struggling with internal conflict. You don't want to break up but staying here like this is hurting you... so like rock/hard place. Is that true?

I encourage you to seek counseling, just for yourself. Slow this down.

I will hope that she gets past this initial urge and decides to take a slower approach, actually work on her issues, and deal with counseling. Do the foundation work required to heal herself while you heal you. And then move on to do healthy open/poly together.

But if she just wants skip all that and jump in to do new wacky? And you prefer something more stable and less wacky? You are outgrowing this dynamic? It's ok for you to decline that offer. You have to look after your OWN well being. It's ok to go for a trial separation and you go CREATE your own stability.

You might take a look at

www.scarleteen.com

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.
www.scarleteen.com www.scarleteen.com

I encourage you to find a counselor and discuss if this is a healthy marriage for you to be in.

Because life is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one.

Galagirl
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, and while it wasn't what I wanted to hear at the time, after reading it and thinking hard about it, it's definitely something I needed to hear.

We ended up having more talks, and more fights, and more talks afterwards, and I thought about what you wrote regarding personal boundaries and the trial separation.

While she was initially hurt by the boundaries, but looking at it, they needed to be established and you were right. As it stands, I can't trust trust her as it is in a monogamous relationship then I definitely couldn't trust her in a poly one.

As I expected and prepared for, she ended up spiraling mental health wise, becoming self destructive and suicidal over being confronted with everything when she demanded to know why I couldn't trust her and the realization of the pain she had caused that still hadn't healed. Though this time I made it clear after the suicidal part of the episode ended, that I couldn't be there for her to help her heal this time, because it isn't fair or right for her to expect it when it was me who had been hurt.

I'm currently reaching out to two different counseling clinics (one through my work, which is only 6-7 sessions, but free, and the other a couples councilor i will be seeing alone that does a sliding scale so that it won't effect the families finances) and we have come to the conclusion that as it stands, my wife isn't able to and may never be able to be there for me emotionally in any way that I need. We are also giving it a 6 month period to see where we stand and if I am willing/wanting to stay in this relationship, and if it doesn't improve I'll be going forward with a full trial separation. (As much as a trial separation may have been better right away, our finances barely cover everything now with prices going up, and the housing market is ridiculous here, there is no way I could find a second place to live with what little saving we have, so during those 6 months I'll be saving money incase I need it so I can leave)

Another situation that shed some light on her actions and seeming disregard for my feelings and her past actions that came to light was a side effect from her electroshock therapy she had last year, which i got in touch with her old psychiatrist (we moved 8 hrs away from our old city back in August) to confirm because I didn't fully believe her. It seems she has severe memory loss of over a decade, forgetting most of our early relationship, our wedding, her affairs (she knows she had the online one, but no details, and just remembers she slept with someone else when we went open but hurt me during it). I legitimately didn't believe her, (it seemed to perfeft of a cop out) until she mentioned not remembering most of our first child's early life, which prompted me to reach out to her Psychiatrist who confirmed the memory loss was real. This adds a lot of hurdles, challenges and emotional landmines to say the least, which further cemented my decision that I would only be involved in a monogamous relationship.

I also realized that I had slipped back into being a caregiver. My wife didn't, doesn't, and may not ever look to me as a lover, spouse or partner again because I had become her caregiver, along with the knowledge and constant reminder of her lowest times, which I feel has been a major issue with our sex life and her lack of desire/validation from me. And in return I realized I had given up pretty much everything that was me (hobbies, friends, family) because of that role. So this is something I am also going to be working on.

Thanks Galagirl, while your post definitely wasn't what I thought I wanted to hear, it was everything I needed to hear to come to and make the best decisions I could have here
 
Hanky said:
Get therapy and figure out why you are white knighting this women. She does not want to go to therapy because she does not want her level of manipulation to be acknowledged.

Something going on with your self-worth since you tolerate a toxic woman for so long. I feel bad for you. She lied to you before and got away with it. She will lie this time too. Can you not do any better than this woman?
Click to expand...
Honestly? Because it started ever so slowly.

I grew up in a broken home taking care of two broken and suicidal parents while raising my little brother. And while I told myself I would never let myself become a caregiver or be in that sort of situation again, I didn't break the cycle like I thought I had.

Thankfully I will be starting therapy soon
 
It may be wise to begin compiling records of your wife's mental illness. You are doing the right thing in getting help.
 
You are welcome. Glad it was helpful to you.

I'm glad to hear you told her a firm "No, thanks" to the idea of starting poly right now.

One could create and enforce personal boundaries with their patient person. Because some of the things they want or ask for in the moment sometimes are just not reasonable. And NO. Her spiraling out/suicide gestures/acting out/memory loss is not a reason for you to cave to her every demand just to placate.

I think you seeing a counselor to work on your past history and current things is a good plan. Giving it six months to see if you still want to be together or not? Reasonable. Saving up some money in the meanwhile to move on to a trial separation if needed is also sensible. She can seek a job in that time to prepare for it as well.

Everyone (even the kids) could participate in their home chores.

I deal in dementia eldercare. I know first hand that the caregivers (me and mom) risk burn out if we go chasing the patient (Dad) around over every single cow he has or let him have life like a free ride. He is not at that stage of his illness. And we risk bigger problems if we skip doing what NEEDS to happen just because the patient doesn't like it or doesn't like being told "no." We have to emotionally detach and not get all tangled up in his emotional cow having tantrums when he's having one. There's no such thing as "cow free" here. The best we can hope for is "Dad having smaller cows, farther apart."

So I encourage you to maintain healthy boundaries with your patient wife. And do what needs doing.

If you need to put on your own oxygen mask on first before trying to assist her in appropriate ways? Could go make the arrangements you need to see to your OWN well being even if she doesn't like it. Sounds like you are doing that. If you need to talk to your counselor about how to detangle and detach and set some emotional boundaries with your patient? Talk to them about that.

If she wants you to be her doormat, life raft, punching bag, or anything else inappropriate? Opt out. Say "No, thanks. I won't be doing that." Even if she gets upset hearing the "No."

I know it might sound mean, but what are you supposed to do? Let her coast on everything while you do all the work here? Throw yourself under the bus every time? Be her 24/7 guard so she doesn't commit suicide? You can't spend your life doing that and be healthy. And say it happens. Then what? You are sad, you grieve, and THEN you finally get to live your life? What is the reason for not living some of your life now? One does not respond to chronic illness in the same way as acute illness.

I've had to deal with some suicidal people in my life. You could talk to counselor about your concerns around that. You could also look into the websites to figure out the "friends and family" info. You might encourage her to do a suicide safety plan with her counselor or doctor, but you cannot do it for her or make her use it.

You taking better care of you? That doesn't mean you don't care about her at all. It just means you stop the self neglect. It just means you accept that you can't do ALL the things in life for her. It means you seek and accept help. She has to take some personal responsibility insofar as her illness allows.

My dad doesn't know what time it is or what year it is with his Alzheimer. He cannot pay bills or anything "timely." He's still got to sweep the house, put away his clean laundry, wash the cars, do the cat box, etc. If he sweeps or washes the car 5 times in a week because he forgets he did already? Nobody cares. If he forgets to put up his socks? Oh, well. At least he got it that far from the garage. They are clean in his basket and it bothers only his side of the bedroom to leave the basket there. The cat will chase him down and meow at him incessantly if he forgets the cat box. He is not so far gone that he gets a pass from participating in home life/chores and contributing in the reasonable ways he can.

If you are too tired to do some stuff in the house? Do less. Skip dishes. Eat on paper plates. Run the dishwasher twice.

As for the marriage, these are concerning...

it seemed like she only really wanted or needed me around when she was ill and then wanted to go off and have fun while I was left behind when she was healthy.
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My wife didn't, doesn't, and may not ever look to me as a lover, spouse or partner again because I had become her caregiver, along with the knowledge and constant reminder of her lowest times, which I feel has been a major issue with our sex life and her lack of desire/validation from me.
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we have come to the conclusion that as it stands, my wife isn't able to and may never be able to be there for me emotionally in any way that I need.
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To address all that? This part below I think is reasonable path with a natural consequence:

We are also giving it a 6 month period to see where we stand and if I am willing/wanting to stay in this relationship, and if it doesn't improve I'll be going forward with a full trial separation.
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Even if it came with some fights? Glad this is out on the table plain now. You both stopped pussyfooting around the core issue or trying to sweep it under the rug. Because if you and wife are not suited to be married any more? Sorting that out before starting poly on either side is best. Other people don't need to be dragged through your separation/divorce process if that's the root thing. Poly isn't supposed to be a "bandaid" for marriage issues.

The vague has stopped. It's got a clock now -- 6 mos. She does her part to improve. You do yours to improve. And then you assess in 6 mos to see if that was enough change for you to still be willing to stay or not.

I can only imagine how tough this is. I commend you on trying to keep a level head about you.

And in return I realized I had given up pretty much everything that was me (hobbies, friends, family) because of that role. So this is something I am also going to be working on.
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From the sound of it, things have been skewed here for a long time. The stuff in blue is stuff you can do something about. In the coming 6 mos, you could make time for hobbies, friends, family, therapy, etc. Could take small steps to create more life balance. So you can start to heal and over time return to full wellness.

I hope things get better for you. And also your spouse. Whether you work it out so you can be at peace together or work it out so you can be at peace apart. This "going in circles" fighting thing could stop.

Galagirl
 
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At what point can we call the wife’s behaviour emotional blackmail? I don’t doubt she has serious things that she’s dealing with and in no way am trying to trivialise her talk of suicide, I’m just wondering at what point is it ok to turn around and call some of this manipulation?
 
Once the other person in the situation feels they are being manipulated?

From reading a summary of one side it's not possible for a bunch of internet strangers to be definite about anything really, just offer possible insight from our own experience or vicarious experience.

Personally, threatening suicide is one of my boundaries. I had an ex do this a few times. Now, I'd break it off after the first time and tell them to seek medical/mental health help. This is not normal behaviour and should not be borne by a partner.

If they cannot make a healthy connection with me, it is not my responsibility to develop that for them (when I am clearly capable of having multiple other healthy connections in my life.) It's a them problem and I will not be threatened with their self harm or suicide. That is a sign of untreated mental illness and I don't date people with untreated mental illness. Btdt, never again.
 
Jeansandsneakers said:
At what point can we call the wife’s behaviour emotional blackmail? I don’t doubt she has serious things that she’s dealing with and in no way am trying to trivialise her talk of suicide, I’m just wondering at what point is it ok to turn around and call some of this manipulation?
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What is the point of calling someone out who is clearly unstable? If what you say is the whole story you are beyond logic and rational with this person. The way you handle manipulation is to not associate with it. I know you have been tolerant of this chaos for a great many years and you will likely have to tolerate it to some degree for many more. However, It is not too late for you to improve your life. The first step is to talk to a counselor about why you invite chaos into your life.
 
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