2 years in more then over due for a 2nd post

ironwill

New member
So I came on here two years ago. I had just learned about Poly and was going to give it a try. At the time all I knew was my wife was in love with two men. So I believed I googled that. Which brought me here. I did a small introductory post. Which Kevin so nicely replied. Thanks!. I do come here alot a read and soak in all the great advice.

So it's been a difficult 2 years for me. Here is a little backstory. I am in a closed V with my wife (C)being the hinge. Then we have D as her other male partner. So C and D meet online. At the time she had been in an emotional affair with him for about 2 months. D is from the UK. When I found out about the affair I was a bit set back. I had known about D, but under the false impression that he was only her AA sponsor. She also had a local guy she called her friend and a guy she texted a lot and called her friend also. Well after I found out about the affair. I had assumed it was the local guy. I had a long talk with my wife. She had told me she still loved me, but also had feelings for D. This led me to some strange feelings. I was not jealous of D, but of the other two. I really couldn't explain it. This is what brought me to learning about polyamory. It clicked and after another heart-to-heart with my floored wife that I was bringing this up. We decided to give it a try.
So she went to the UK to meet him. She had 7 trips in 2 years. Usually 3-6 weeks at a time. This was very difficult for me cause now I had to take care of the kids/household and be by myself. Yes, we video chatted twice a day, but as we know it’s just not the same as being with the person. He also came over here twice. Once he was stuck here due to the pandemic for nearly 8 weeks. We got along great. So we finally got D over here on a Student Visa this past Aug.

So before he came over here. C was with either me or D. except for the two times he visited. She managed it well. Since now D is over here living with us, it is strange. I’m not sure if it is a UK thing or a courtesy thing, but C and D only kiss or show any PDA when I’m not around. Or they will go to his bedroom to say good night where I can’t see them. I have come upon them twice kissing when they thought I was somewhere else. Now C and D have the whole house to themself for about 1-1 1/2 hours each day before the kids come home and another hour till I get home. Since D moved in my wife seems to be more distant from me. Like one night I went to hold her hand during watching TV and she called me Needy. This shocked me. Then another time I wanted to go to the book store with her and D and she Told both of us when will she ever get time alone, but I could tell it was directed at me. Cause she was only expecting to go with D. She also never tells D not to come.

Since D is always home when I’m home the only time I get alone with C is my nights with C. I have told her that I never get any alone time with her. This caused a big argument. That she does all this stuff with D and by the time I get home she’s too tired or the kid needs some event that I need to take them to. She downplayed how much alone time they had each week. Her not wanting to do anything with me, but going for coffee and errands with D before I get home. I got glimpses of my wife's love for me. But since D has been here, a lot of time I feel like I’m just a paycheck to support the house a bus driver and chef for the kids, and a means for D to be here. Most of her attention seems to be toward D.

D and I get along great. I try and include him in the things I do. I am at a loss though. Is this still just the transition phase of us just learning to live together. The one time I told her about the alone time, she accused me of being jealous and was worried about what would happen to D. I said this is not about D and I’m not jealous of him. I’m envious of all the alone time he gets. I told her once she calmed down, that I knew there would be a transition period where she would be spending more time with D to get him accustomed to living in the U.S. and with us. I just didn’t think it would be this hard two months in. It’s been better since that argument 3 weeks ago, But I still feel lonely and unappreciated a lot of the time in my own house.

C and I are supposed to go away this weekend to the beach. She and D went away for his birthday a month ago. So this is her way of making sure its balances. I hope her focus is on me and not her phone and chatting with D.

Any advice I can get from you guys would be great. Am I correct that we are still transitioning living together? That thing will balance out so to say with time.
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
You said in your intro post once this was all out in the open and put into practice you were happier do you know why ??

Reading this thread or OP the gut reaction is NRE and poly hell sub heading displacement and intrusion and I guess you could make the case for demotion too if you wanted to.

you might want to read up on poly hell ….and also pass that along to your wife.
 

Evie

Kaitiaki
Sounds like C is turning you into a cuckold. Watch out!
Tom, you appear to have a bit of a fixation on cuckoldry. Both of your two posts since you joined mention this.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
I agree on possible poly hell.

But even before that... he couldn't get a student visa and live somewhere else nearby in a flat? Why did it have to be living in your house?

Like great you get along with him and everything.... but going from LDR to roomies -- that's a big leap.

So before he came over here. C was with either me or D. except for the two times he visited. She managed it well.

It might be C herself who can't deal with cohabitation. Because it's too much togetherness, and she did better as a hinge in a "separate V" like it was when it was LDR.

Maybe it was easier then. X weeks over there in the UK. The rest of the time here with you. Like... big chunks spread out that are clearly defined.

The time with partners was JUST the time with THAT partner.

Now it's living hinge life 24/7 with no breaks. Not this juggling act of 2 partners plus work plus kids plus....all the plus. It's a lot more reality and a lot less "My vacation in the UK with my LDR" in vibe.

Since D is always home when I’m home the only time I get alone with C is my nights with C.

Did YOU think about that before living together with D? Like where's he supposed to be if this is his home too?

Where if he has his own flat nearby, it could offer more separateness.

Since now D is over here living with us, it is strange. I’m not sure if it is a UK thing or a courtesy thing, but C and D only kiss or show any PDA when I’m not around. Or they will go to his bedroom to say good night where I can’t see them. I have come upon them twice kissing when they thought I was somewhere else

Nice that you are ok with it. But you aren't the only one here.

Maybe D is not and it feels too weird.

Or maybe C feels weird.

Since D moved in my wife seems to be more distant from me. Like one night I went to hold her hand during watching TV and she called me Needy. This shocked me.

You needed some connection with your wife and wanted to hold hands. Did you ask why she's snapping at you? Cuz merely having a connection need doesn't make you needy like a clingy person.

Or did that circle back around to maybe C not being comfortable with PDA with one partner in front of the other?

Then another time I wanted to go to the book store with her and D and she Told both of us when will she ever get time alone, but I could tell it was directed at me. Cause she was only expecting to go with D. She also never tells D not to come.

Sounds like you need time alone with C and there could be time for D to be alone with C.

How do you all manage calendar? Like are these things actually written as "C date with D" and " C date with Ironwill" on there or is it all... loosey goosey?

How do you ask to go?

"If this isn't like a couple date thing, is it ok to tag along? I'd love a bookstore visit."

Or just "Can I come?" and it is you intruding on a date to C and she gets annoyed, but you never knew this was a date thing cuz nothing on the family calendar to that effect.

Is all this living together is blurring everything together? How can you tell if something is "just errands" or it's an "errand date?"

If D asks to go with you all to the movies or whatever and it was supposed to be a "couple date" for just you and C, YOU can't say "Sorry, dude. This is a date night for me and C. But happy to schedule a friendly hangout another date." You just expect HER to tell him not to come? You can't do it?

But since D has been here, a lot of time I feel like I’m just a paycheck to support the house a bus driver and chef for the kids, and a means for D to be here. Most of her attention seems to be toward D.

Well, does she know that?

And how are the finances here?

I get he's here on student visa and presumably a student some of the time. How's he contribute to the household? Does he pay his share of rent/grocery? Do chores? What?

How does she contribute to household?

How long is this living together thing? A trial period? The length of the visa? Just... forever now?

The one time I told her about the alone time, she accused me of being jealous and was worried about what would happen to D. I said this is not about D and I’m not jealous of him. I’m envious of all the alone time he gets. I told her once she calmed down, that I knew there would be a transition period where she would be spending more time with D to get him accustomed to living in the U.S. and with us. I just didn’t think it would be this hard two months in. It’s been better since that argument 3 weeks ago, But I still feel lonely and unappreciated a lot of the time in my own house.

Ok, so it got a bit better if you just speak your truth. Could do more of that.

C and I are supposed to go away this weekend to the beach. She and D went away for his birthday a month ago. So this is her way of making sure its balances. I hope her focus is on me and not her phone and chatting with D.

How about you don't hope? You actually ASK her if she's willing to focus some quality time on just you, and not on the phone chatting with D?
Like brief check ins to say hi to him and the kids, but not like "here just in body but brain is off somewhere else."

And if part of this time away is a check in?

You check in and ASK her direct how she prefers you communicate.

"Am I correct that we are still transitioning living together? That thing will balance out over time? I need to know what to expect and HOW to communicate with you without you going all "You are jealous of D" every time like you are afraid I'll take him away or something.

I'm fine with D. I am not fine with your hinge skills right now. That YOU AND ME, nothing to do with him. I can live with it for a short while if it's a learning period for you. But I'm your partner too, and need regular time together. Not catch as catch can."

Speak your truth.

Galagirl
 
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HaloOnFire

Active member
Tom, you appear to have a bit of a fixation on cuckoldry. Both of your two posts since you joined mention this.


Wishful thinking on Tom's part, mayhap? ;)
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
So she went to the UK to meet him. She had 7 trips in 2 years. Usually 3-6 weeks at a time. This was very difficult for me cause now I had to take care of the kids/household and be by myself.

How old are your kids ? And how is it affected your kids with mom gone 6 weeks at a crack to visit her BF?

is your wife a stay at home mom or has a remote job which would allow this kind of travel. Who covered all those flights ??
 

ironwill

New member
The younger kids think dave is just a good friend. The two oldest (out of HS) know most of the story and situation. It hasn't affected any of them much. they enjoy D being around. My wife is a preschool teacher so works 8 to 1 every day. I covered all but one of those flights. It was starting to urk me that she was getting all these breaks and it was costing us on average $1500 per trip and she would come home and I would get will plan something. It took a year for something to materialize. There was always some reasoning that we couldn't go away, but it was fine for her to travel to the UK.
 

HaloOnFire

Active member
There was always some reasoning that we couldn't go away, but it was fine for her to travel to the UK.

I am going to roasted alive for pointing out the elephant in the room, however, this is probably because the finances were all geared toward her trips to the UK for 3-6 weeks at a clip.

You check in and ASK her direct how she prefers you communicate.

"Am I correct that we are still transitioning living together? That thing will balance out over time? I need to know what to expect and HOW to communicate with you without you going all "You are jealous of D" every time like you are afraid I'll take him away or something.

I'm fine with D. I am not fine with your hinge skills right now. That YOU AND ME, nothing to do with him. I can live with it for a short while if it's a learning period for you. But I'm your partner too, and need regular time together. Not catch as catch can."

Speak your truth.


This is the crux of the matter, imo. Your wife is not being a very good hinge and the "you're just being jealous" trope is quite the convenient comeback to everything in this realm. And in that case, there isn't a single argument or situation where you can win, imo.


PS: Is there anyway we as humans can drop the whole "emotional affair" thing? Quite frankly, I find it quite gross as my partner does not, nor will they ever, have the ability nor the permission, to police my thoughts and my emotions. Those belong to me and to me alone and my partner(s) do not get a say so in that.
 
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ironwill

New member
She just started back up in preschool. She was working until the pandemic and then the preschool closed for the remainder of the year and then she took a year off to help homeschool the kids. They went to school online during that year so there was not much she had to do,
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Hello ironwill,

It sounds like your wife is somewhat caught up in her NRE with D, and is not exactly conscious of the way she is favoring him in how she divides her time. Although I would add that it sounds like she always sleeps with you. If that is true, and if you want things to be more equal, then she should be sleeping with D on some nights, shouldn't she? How does D feel about that?

If she is going to accuse you of jealousy every time you ask her to carve out some more time with you, then you are dead in the water. To get unstuck, you might have to point out to her that she is using alleged jealousy as an excuse to avoid addressing the issues. If there are going to be three of you in this V, then it must be treated as three, not as if she and D were the couple and you were an afterthought.

Definitely ask her to not spend a huge amount of her time on her vacation with you texting/talking to D. That aside, hopefully things will get gradually better as she learns to balance things. Maintaining a group calendar would be one step in that process. But get in the habit of speaking up for yourself. Otherwise, with NRE, she is not going to notice that she's favoring D.

Sympathetic regards,
Kevin T.
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
You said in your intro post once this was all out in the open and put into practice you were happier. Do you know why?

Reading this thread or the OP, my gut reaction is it's NRE and poly hell, with a subheading of displacement and intrusion. I guess you could make the case for demotion too if you wanted to. You might want to read up on poly hell, and also pass that along to your wife.
 

ironwill

New member
Hi Kevin,

Sleeping arrangements are fine. We decided before he moved in that it would be a 2 day then switch rooms. So everything is equal and fine in that department. I am learning to speak up for myself. It's hard for me since i've never been good at confutation. I'm learning that i need to suck it up and know that it's a nessicaty of a good relationship.
 

Marcus

Well-known member
PS: Is there anyway we as humans can drop the whole "emotional affair" thing? Quite frankly, I find it quite gross as my partner does not, nor will they ever, have the ability nor the permission, to police my thoughts and my emotions. Those belong to me and to me alone and my partner(s) do not get a say so in that.

I always chuckle when I see "emotional affair". I figure it just means "we haven't boned... yet". My guess is that it isn't so much that thought policing is in order, but that an affair is in the works and simply hasn't manifested yet. Like a distinction between a breach of trust, and the intention to breach trust.

For me the problem is the possessive concept itself, not whether or not someone was in breach of it. I say fix the problem at the actual source, which is the need to control one another in service to our insecurity. However, traditional folk don't function like that so they have to proceed by their own set of parameters.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
It was starting to urk me that she was getting all these breaks and it was costing us on average $1500 per trip and she would come home and I would get will plan something. It took a year for something to materialize. There was always some reasoning that we couldn't go away, but it was fine for her to travel to the UK.

You say "she was getting all these breaks" in this passive way like it came from the sky or something.

You were not able to say something like this?

"No, thanks. I need a turn. Either on my own vacation or you and me together vacation, but it cannot be our vacation money is for footing X trips in row for just you. I also need rest/breaks. I also need time away alone with you. I need better balance in our vacation money agreements."

Don't you have a voice in the things that concern you? Or you have it, but don't often exercise it?

I am learning to speak up for myself. It's hard for me since i've never been good at confutation. I'm learning that i need to suck it up and know that it's a nessicaty of a good relationship.

Is that part of the problem? You tend towards being passive?

Or you say "Yes" to stuff just to avoid having to do conflict resolution, but a plain "No, thanks" from the start would actually serve you better?

Or you tend to "hint" at things hoping the other person guesses at the message?

I'll be frank.

She can't be a mind reader.

And some people on NRE are like they are NRE drunk, obsessed with the new person, lalala mushy gushy, and stink at being a hinge because they are still learning HOW, etc. It can be a drag for the established partner.

You may have to spell it out PLAIN and ask her to repeat it back in her own words. Just to make sure she hears it how you mean it and minimize misunderstandings.

"Can we talk about how to get OUR side of the V in better balance?

I have no problems with D. I get along with him fine. I have problems with your hinge skills.
  • I need to be able to talk to you about things on OUR side of the V without you automatically making it be like I hate D or something.
    • I get along fine with him.
  • I'm not getting along well with you right now because I'm not sure you hear me.
    • I need regular time with you on our own because I'm your partner too.
    • I would like connection things like hugs, holding hands, kissing, etc in our own home without you snapping at me that I'm needy like a cling on. Having a need to connect with my wife is reasonable. You are my partner.
  • How can we talk better so BOTH of us get what we need on our side of the V?
    • Are you under stress with cohabitation?
    • Was it better with your partners in separate homes?
    • Are there things you need you aren't telling me? I cannot be a mind reader."
Or whatever it is you need to say.

And if talking out loud is hard, maybe send it like email or print out a letter. But speak your truth. You don't have to mean about doing it.

But you do have to do it.

Galagirl
 
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HaloOnFire

Active member
I always chuckle when I see "emotional affair". I figure it just means "we haven't boned... yet". My guess is that it isn't so much that thought policing is in order, but that an affair is in the works and simply hasn't manifested yet. Like a distinction between a breach of trust, and the intention to breach trust.

For me the problem is the possessive concept itself, not whether or not someone was in breach of it. I say fix the problem at the actual source, which is the need to control one another in service to our insecurity. However, traditional folk don't function like that so they have to proceed by their own set of parameters.


Agreed on all counts :)
 
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