Advice and thoughts on dealing with non-poly wife.

K

Klein Moebius

New member
My situation has couple of layers. I'm gonna point out them but don't feel like you have to address all of them.

Anyway, as I mentioned in introduction, I'm married for nearly 18 years. And I really love my wife. That's undisputable part.

I guess I always was inclined toward polyamory, I just never knew it is even a thing, nor was there clear situation indicating that. But now, in perspective, I see there were "signs."

Few years ago I fell in love with another girl "simultaneously" with my wife. I was somewhat confused because it is usually "socially-expected" that new feeling of that kind has to replace previous feeling, AKA, "You have to stop loving first person to make room for love for new person" thing. Somehow I always felt this is BS, but never gave deeper thought to it until it struck me personally.

Long story short, here is the background situation:
- after few years of thoughts and lot of reading I'm totally confident I'm polyamorous. "New love" didn't hinder nor kill "old love" - quite contrary it seems it even reinforced relationship with my Wife.
- "new love" unfortunately is unrequited - status is unresolved yet and I'm "love-hurt depressive" state now.
- I was honest and open to my wife from the beginning. She knows everything for nearly 3 years now. But even said that she seems to be more OK with the fact I love another girl than with the fact that I'm hurt about it.

One caveat: since learning about "polyamory" I never used this term in conversation. I'm afraid that:
- she will dismiss it like "oh you just googled some fitting stuff just to justify that you want to cheat" (or something like that.)
OR
- she will freak out, because labelling this state with a name "POLYAMORY" might seem like giving it (or trying to) official status, like "coming out" or "no return point," if you know what I mean.

With all the above background in mind, here is actual issue I came with:
My wife urges me (us) to go to psychotherapist to deal with my depression - either to go as a couple or by myself.
Either way, I want to finally bring up POLYAMORY as a solid, valid and acknowledged thing instead of some kind of personal whim or excuse.
I think it's necessary because eventually I'll bring up the term to therapist too, and - if we decide to go as a couple - I don't want my wife to be surprised.
So, most important part:
- How do you think I should do it with my wife? I mean official "polyamory" coming-out
- How therapists usually treat "polyamory"? Can I expect professional reaction or rather "eye-roll"?

Feel free to comment and address anything from my post. Or ask additional questions if you need. Thanks!
 
I think you should suggest your wife have some time where she dates other people. That way, you can see if you are actually poly or just want to have other relationships and she can see the benefits of having a non-monogamous marriage.

After a year or so of her doing that, maybe you start seeing other people, too. In the meantime, you work on your mental health that seems to be already impacting on the relationship you are in. You wouldn't want to add another person in the mix who has to deal with a chronically depressed partner who isn't managing their own mental health. That would be selfish.
 
Hi Klein, welcome to the board.

It sounds like you have a strong crush on another woman, and you feel depressed that you can't take it further, date her and consummate the relationship. Meanwhile, you told your wife that you care for this other person. She accepts it.

Now you'd like to take it to the next step, and come out to your wife as polyamorous. You'd like to come out, using the term, before you start couples counseling, or individual counseling.

I highly suggest you do more research, read some of the books and articles, and listen to the podcast we have listed here (as available in your country). Opening Up has been around for over a decade (revised twice, I believe) and might even be available in your native language.


What Seasoned was getting at with their suggestion is the concept that for you to actually practice poly, and not just have an unrequited crush, you need to be okay with your nesting partner, long-term spouse, also dating. That's the challenging part. Of course, your wife may have absolutely no interest in dating others! Then, if she did consent to open up your marriage, you'd be in a mono/poly situation, which can be tricky.

This person you like, is she nearby? Is she even available to date? Sometimes unrequited love just happens. I once fell in love with my next-door neighbor. He was seeking a wife, and I was in a mono marriage at the time. It's been two decades. He got married and now has two teenagers, and I haven't seen him in ages. But I still kinda long for him. It's just one of those things. At least we are Facebook friends and we get to comment on and like each other's photos.
 
Hello Klein Moebius,

I think you should just straight-out tell your wife, "Honey, I think I'm polyamorous." Then if she has any questions you can explain what the word means. As for your therapist there's https://www.polyfriendly.org/ to look for someone poly-friendly, also if a therapist is open to the idea of poly but unfamiliar with it, you can suggest that they read, "What Psychology Professionals Should Know about Polyamory," a 36-page booklet by Geri Weitzman, Ph.D., Joy Davidson, Ph.D., and Robert A. Phillips, Jr., Ph.D.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.
 
Magdlyn said:
Hi Klein, welcome to the board.

It sounds like you have a strong crush on another woman, and you feel depressed that you can't take it further, date her and consummate the relationship. Meanwhile, you told your wife that you care for this other person. She accepts it.

Now you'd like to take it to the next step, and come out to your wife as polyamorous. You'd like to come out, using the term, before you start couples counseling, or individual counseling.

I highly suggest you do more research, read some of the books and articles, and listen to the podcast we have listed here (as available in your country). Opening Up has been around for over a decade (revised twice, I believe) and might even be available in your native language.


What Seasoned was getting at with their suggestion is the concept that for you to actually practice poly, and not just have an unrequited crush, you need to be okay with your nesting partner, long-term spouse, also dating. That's the challenging part. Of course, your wife may have absolutely no interest in dating others! Then, if she did consent to open up your marriage, you'd be in a mono/poly situation, which can be tricky.

This person you like, is she nearby? Is she even available to date? Sometimes unrequited love just happens. I once fell in love with my next-door neighbor. He was seeking a wife, and I was in a mono marriage at the time. It's been two decades. He got married and now has two teenagers, and I haven't seen him in ages. But I still kinda long for him. It's just one of those things. At least we are Facebook friends and we get to comment on and like each other's photos.
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Hey! Thank You for replying. I apologise for delay. I'm not always availablem and even if I am, I'm not always in mood for writing. It takes time to gather words sometimes.

First of all, I'll certainly sift thorough publications list.

Moving on now, I'll try to address everything.

Yes, your summary is quite accurate. Except, I don't think coming out will necessarily open the way for a next step. My crush had suspected for a long time I was in love with her, and since I officially told her that, she "semi-ghosted" me. I'm sure situation is simply too uncomfortable for her. I think that in a best case scenario I can count on the friendzone, like, "I can live without being openly with you, but I can't bear being banished from your life" type of thing. (Does that make sense?)

I wouldn't say my wife "accepts" it (yet?). I love my wife madly, and she loves me, and WE know it. She also sees every day how strong and painful my crush for the other girl is and she kind of gave up fighting with it.

The trickiest and hardest part is your last paragraph. My crush is a long-time friend, not only of us both, she is integral part of our friends-and-family network. She is universally liked and is present very often at parties and other types of meetings. Even if she's not there and she just gets mentioned by someone, it is too much for me. Now, my presence at those meetings is straight-out torture. She avoids me now and treats me like air. It's the very definition of awkwardness. Regular avoiding (by me) of such meetings also raises eyebrows and induces questions.

I had a great relationship with her, many shared events and memories (probably what lead to my crush) and now literally everything, even just being around our shared friends, reminds me of her and is hurtful.

The weirdest part is that my wife (despite knowing everything) still likes her and has good contact with her.

I really don't know what to make of all this.

I'm sure my wife is not into dating others. I've suggested many times that I'm not "jealous" type, but would never dare straight off the bat say "Go and try date someone" She was raised differently and I think she would take it as insult.

She is not very good with English and publications on the subject in our native language are scarce and shallow and, frankly, just shitty. :)
I'll have to put everything in my own words but that approach will be obviously biased in my favour.

So, a lot to unpack for me.

Seasoned's reply struck me as a bit harsh and straight off the bat too judgy. Maybe it wasn't her intention, but her choice of words was weird and lacked sensitivity, IMO. Or maybe I'm too sensitive (now) for this.
 
kdt26417 said:
I think you should just straight-out tell your wife, "Honey, I think I'm polyamorous." Then if she has any questions you can explain what the word means. As for your therapist there's https://www.polyfriendly.org/ to look for someone poly-friendly, also if a therapist is open to the idea of poly but unfamiliar with it, you can suggest that they read, "What Psychology Professionals Should Know about Polyamory," a 36-page booklet by Geri Weitzman, Ph.D., Joy Davidson, Ph.D., and Robert A. Phillips, Jr., Ph.D.
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Thank you! I know it will eventually boil down to it. As for therapists, nobody on that list is even from my country. No surprise for me, though. :D
 
Oh, I forgot to mention: we have appointed a visit with therapist. What should I do if I get: "Yes, I know what polyamory is supposed to be and I think it's bullshit" vibe from therapist? Cut the crap and look for another?
 
I could be wrong, but it sounds like you are struggling with coming to terms with two things-- being polyamorous, and what that might mean for your marriage.

And then, what sounds like an unrequited crush on the friend, I can't tell if the friend knows about the crush. and turned you down, or what. That part is not clear to me. But you sound bummed out that the friend now treats you differently.

My wife urges me (us) to go to psychotherapist to deal with my depression - either to go as a couple or by myself.
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YMMV, but you could try seeking a counselor at:

www.polyfriendly.org

You could do some individual sessions first before couples counseling. Counselors experienced in clients who do various forms of non-monogamy are not going to do "eye rolls." But not every counselor graduates at top of their class, and if you live in a remote area, you might have to think about online counseling, or work with a new counselor who is willing, but maybe not experienced. SOMEONE has to be their first poly client.

The first few intake appointments are to see if you two "click," or not, in personalities, and if they offer the modalities you might need.

You could ask if they are familiar with:


Polyamory: A Clinical Toolkit for Therapists (and Their Clients)​

There may also be cultural issues at play if you live in another country.

Either way, I want to finally bring up POLYAMORY as a solid, valid and acknowledged thing instead of some kind of personal whim or excuse.
I think it's necessary because eventually I'll bring up the term to therapist too, and, if we decide to go as a couple, I don't want my wife to be surprised.
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The counselor might help guide you in having this conversation with your wife, whether you choose to do it in session with the counselor present or not.

Galagirl
 
Klein Moebius has already stated that none of those poly-friendly therapists are in his country.

Some countries are extremely conservative, and only MF marriage is acceptable. Sometimes premarital sex is a crime. Sometimes it's illegal to have gay relationships. On the other hand, some countries (mostly Muslim) do allow polygyny, while polyandry is not allowed.

Klein is a German word though, so maybe the OP is not in a Muslim country.

This is a very extreme crush, Klein! I'm sorry she is such a close family friend and you're stuck seeing her, since if you didn't attend the social gatherings she attends, it would cause all kinds of "raised eyebrows" and maybe gossip.

Sometimes I think when we are extremely drawn to someone who is not appropriate for us to date/have sex with/have a romantic relationship with, we used to know them intimately in a former life. Or it might just be our personalities, our faithfulness, our imagination/fantasy life, our sexuality. (Or even the way the other person smells, since that is such a basic sense. Those pheromones do things we don't even consciously control.)

I've had a couple other long-lived crushes like for the guy I mentioned, where I even have romantic or sexual dreams about them decades after our last meeting. One of my first bfs (I was only 17-18) was like this. We only dated for like nine months. Our relationship ended when I went away to college and he couldn't do the long-distance-faithful thing. It ended badly. I still dreamt of him, for decades. Even if I didn't consciously think of him, my subconscious was missing him. Finally, I googled his name and couldn't find a trace of him. I think he may have passed away. I think that did something to my psyche and I finally stopped having the dreams.

If you *have* to see this woman, even if you limited it to only once a year, I can imagine that once-a-year event would be enough to rekindle any flames that had died down. This is a tough one. Even if you'd like to have a poly relationship with her (and your wife), it seems like neither of them are going to go for it.

Being friend-zoned by someone you lust for, long for, is definitely a hard place to be. But it has to be sublimated somehow. You can either do that in an unhealthy way, or in a healthy way.
 
GalaGirl said:
And then, what sounds like an unrequited crush on the friend, I can't tell if the friend knows about the crush. and turned you down, or what. That part is not clear to me. But you sound bummed out that the friend now treats you differently.
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Klein wrote:
My crush had suspected for a long time I was in love with her, and since I officially told her that, she "semi-ghosted" me.
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Klein Moebius said:
She will freak out, because labelling this state with a name "POLYAMORY" might seem like giving it (or trying to) official status, like "coming out" or "no return point," if you know what I mean.
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There is a ton of repeating discussion on the forum, with an ongoing thread right now on whether polyamory is an "orientation" or a "relationship style", i.e., a choice on how to organize your love life. Since you've been in a monogamous marriage for quite some time and managed, I suggest you don't frame it as an orientation and as a big "I am polyamorous" coming out. Frame it as a way to live you'd like to pursue.

But before you do, I strongly encourage you to contemplate whether it's worth it to you to turn your established life upside down (happens almost always) and to pull your monogamous spouse into this mess over being able to pursue your crushes. Most so called "monogamous" people do have the capacity to love two people, or at least have some sort of crush while they are married. That is not reason enough to live polyamorously. You have to consider many more implications, values and moral aspects.

Even if you do decide to date, it sounds like this lady-crush you have now has no interest in you. She could be off-limits simply because she's so much around your family and it would mess everything up... So, if she isn't interested, is it worth it to you to go out and experience love and heartbreak with someone else? Will your life be enhanced in a significant enough way that you're willing to risk your family over it?

For some people, the answer is yes.
 
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Klein Moebius said:
Thank you! I know it will eventually boil down to it. As for therapists, nobody on that list is even from my country. No surprise for me, though. :D
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See if there is a similar initiative for your country somewhere, or if there is a community. Maybe there are just like 2-3 therapists known for being poly-friendly, but there's no reason for them to be on a US list. Maybe the info is hidden in some "polyamory in country" Facebook group or something. I think you could also try a therapist which present as LGBTQ-friendly, since they will most likely have at least some experience with non-monogamous setups.
 
Magdlyn said:
Klein Moebius has already stated that none of those poly-friendly therapists are in his country.

Some countries are extremely conservative, and only MF marriage is acceptable. Sometimes premarital sex is a crime. Sometimes it's illegal to have gay relationships. On the other hand, some countries (mostly Muslim) do allow polygyny, while polyandry is not allowed.

Klein is a German word though, so maybe the OP is not in a Muslim country.

This is a very extreme crush, Klein! I'm sorry she is such a close family friend and you're stuck seeing her, since if you didn't attend the social gatherings she attends, it would cause all kinds of "raised eyebrows" and maybe gossip.

Sometimes I think when we are extremely drawn to someone who is not appropriate for us to date/have sex with/have a romantic relationship with, we used to know them intimately in a former life. Or it might just be our personalities, our faithfulness, our imagination/fantasy life, our sexuality. (Or even the way the other person smells, since that is such a basic sense. Those pheromones do things we don't even consciously control.)

I've had a couple other long-lived crushes like for the guy I mentioned, where I even have romantic or sexual dreams about them decades after our last meeting. One of my first bfs (I was only 17-18) was like this. We only dated for like nine months. Our relationship ended when I went away to college and he couldn't do the long-distance-faithful thing. It ended badly. I still dreamt of him, for decades. Even if I didn't consciously think of him, my subconscious was missing him. Finally, I googled his name and couldn't find a trace of him. I think he may have passed away. I think that did something to my psyche and I finally stopped having the dreams.

If you *have* to see this woman, even if you limited it to only once a year, I can imagine that once-a-year event would be enough to rekindle any flames that had died down. This is a tough one. Even if you'd like to have a poly relationship with her (and your wife), it seems like neither of them are going to go for it.

Being friend-zoned by someone you lust for, long for, is definitely a hard place to be. But it has to be sublimated somehow. You can either do that in an unhealthy way, or in a healthy way.
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You seem to understand the situation most thoroughly as you were/are in similar mess - minor consolation, but still!

No, I'm not German, nor Muslim. I'm also straight and Klein is just my nick. It's Poland actually (yeah, catholicism, and I'm atheist btw) and nothing really drastic can happen to me except from embarrassment and possibly ostracism. All would probably lead to losing my wife too.
Funny thing, despite being apparently christian country, LGBT is very well tolerated (at least recently).

Meanwhile, even among very open-minded and progressive people, the concept of "being able to love only one partner at a time" is still held, almost cult-like, as a highest virtue. Polyamory would be instantly labelled as just cheating with extra steps.

"Nah, it's impossible to emotionally, romantically love two people. You just want to swing and score another without feeling guilt, admit it."
My biggest worry about going to therapy and touching polyamory grounds is that therapist might suggest "curing" my "condition" (just as homosexuality used to be treated) and that my wife will cling to this.

As for outcomes of my relationship, no matter how hard "friendzone" might be, it will still be better than nothing for me AND will still leave room for some possible development.
 
Thanks for pointing that out, Evie. I missed it.
My biggest worry about going to therapy and touching polyamory grounds is, that therapist might suggest "curing" my "condition" (just as homosexuality used to be treated) and that my wife will cling to this.
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Might consider individual counseling to start then. You don't have to share everything that is said in session with your wife.

Remember that you can "fire" any counselor who suggests such a thing to you. Not every counselor is going to be the right fit/person for you. It's ok to change to another one.

GG
 
Klein Moebius said:
You seem to understand the situation most thoroughly as you were/are in similar mess - minor consolation, but still!

No, I'm not German, nor Muslim. I'm also straight and Klein is just my nick. It's Poland actually
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Funny. I am American, but my background is 3/4 German and 1/4 English. When I was fully adult, our family found out that 1/2 of the "German side" of my mother was actually Polish, only "German" from being invaded during one of the world wars (I forget which one).
Klein Moebius said:
(yeah, catholicism, and I'm atheist btw) and nothing really drastic can happen to me except from embarrassment and possibly ostracism. All would probably lead to losing my wife too.
Funny thing, despite being apparently christian country, LGBT is very well tolerated (at least recently).

Meanwhile, even among very open-minded and progressive people, the concept of "being able to love only one partner at a time" is still held, almost cult-like, as a highest virtue. Polyamory would be instantly labelled as just cheating with extra steps.

"Nah, it's impossible to emotionally, romantically love two people. You just want to swing and score another without feeling guilt, admit it."
My biggest worry about going to therapy and touching polyamory grounds is that therapist might suggest "curing" my "condition" (just as homosexuality used to be treated) and that my wife will cling to this.

As for outcomes of my relationship, no matter how hard "friendzone" might be, it will still be better than nothing for me AND will still leave room for some possible development.
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I've told this story before, but back when I was married and going to therapy, a new therapist we hired told me, "Married people shouldn't get crushes." So basically she was a moralistic asshole. And I fired her.

"You have a crush on someone other than your husband? Bad, bad girl. You just stop that now." (This was what I heard her say in my head.) Um, how does one "stop" loving someone? We can't. It needs to fade gradually, and never being around the person helps with that. If you are forced to be near them, one thing to do is notice something bad about the person, and focus on that as much as possible. Sometimes we idealize our crushes, and so focusing on a non-ideal thing can help.

Otherwise, as you seem to be tending, just being a good friend to the crush, helping them, showing love, but not in an inappropriate uncomfortable way, will at least earn you their respect.
 
Magdlyn said:
Funny. I am American, but my background is 3/4 German and 1/4 English. When I was fully adult, our family found out that 1/2 of the "German side" of my mother was actually Polish, only "German" from being invaded during one of the world wars (I forget which one).

I've told this story before, but back when I was married and going to therapy, a new therapist we hired told me, "Married people shouldn't get crushes." So basically she was a moralistic asshole. And I fired her.

"You have a crush on someone other than your husband? Bad, bad girl. You just stop that now." (This was what I heard her say in my head.) Um, how does one "stop" loving someone? We can't. It needs to fade gradually, and never being around the person helps with that. If you are forced to be near them, one thing to do is notice something bad about the person, and focus on that as much as possible. Sometimes we idealize our crushes, and so focusing on a non-ideal thing can help.

Otherwise, as you seem to be tending, just being a good friend to the crush, helping them, showing love, but not in an inappropriate uncomfortable way, will at least earn you their respect.
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Welcome to distant family on old continent then ;)
Anyway - on subject - yes, that's exactly that, simply "moral judging and shaming" thing.
I'm just hoping to rebuild friendship with my crush now - we didn't really talk since my official confession to her. Except for my txt to her "we can't leave it untalked" to which she just responded "I know" and it was last thing I got from her. It's 2 months now and I just miserably wait for her to decide to finally talk. Given the circumstances I don't blame her for ghosting of course.

Today I directly asked my wife if she feels "betrayed" or "cheated on" and if she feels "jealous" about the situation. She answered that neither - and that she just feels hurt for now, in a normal way when someone learns he/she isn't that "ultimate and only, and most important" in someone's life.
But I felt she also started to get used to it somehow. Maybe it's because specific, friendly and almost family-like position of my crush in our life so far and that she knows her so well and kind of understands why I crushed? Maybe if my crush was complete outsider it would be game over long time ago?
I think it's good hook to introduce Polyamory as a "feeling of simultaneous love to two people" (because I'm totally not going into Polyamory as "practiced relationship model" rabbit hole - I don't think it will ever come to it anyway).
 
Yeah, I do think it's good that your wife knows your crush and also probably appreciates her good qualities, the ones the you so admire.

There are degrees of polyamory. Sometimes all we need is to feel safe expressing our crushes. I do like that about poly for myself, even though I am fully poly with two partners. With either of my partners, we can pass someone on the street, or in the grocery store, or make a new friend, and express to the other the degree of "hotness" that person has, and no one gets threatened or jealous.

The whole "ultimate, one and only, most important" person, soul mate, other half is really just a made-up romantic notion from fairy tales. There are millions of lovely people in the world. It's crazy to think we are only allowed to appreciate one of them.

For example, Pixi (my female partner) is a director at a summer camp for kids, and every year she sees her coworkers, or new ones arrive, and they can be very sweet, kind, smart, fun, interesting, vital, not to mention nice looking. She gets crushes every year. (I'm talking adult staff, not the teenage counselors, of course.) She always tells me who she's crushing on this summer. I know she'll just enjoy the feeling and not act on it. She's got two partners, and that's enough. Plus, it's icky or tricky to date coworkers, anyway.

We can learn to just enjoy the crush. Even though it can be painful.
 
I'm just going to wait and see how it unveils.
We are going to therapist tomorrow. I'm a bit nervous because I never did it it my life, no idea what to expect.
Don't know how it looks like, what to say and how, and how much to share, to open.
Frankly I suspect I'll just be served with cliche banalities about "accepting myself" "being positive" "moving on" "focusing on family" on one side and "respecting my crush' choice and boundaries" on other side and stuff like that.

If I can use some metaphor it will be like attempting to heal festering stab wound without removing the knife first.
 
Give it time. Good luck. You can keep coming here to tell us how it's going, and if it's helping. If after a few sessions you feel you don't "click" with the therapist, you can try someone else.
 
So how are you going to remove the knife?

I'm guessing in your ideal world, wife accepts you having two relationships, crush then reciprocates, and friends & family accept you as a poly V relationship and all is well.

And none of that is actually something you can do. All those things are other people things, and given what you've already described, that's not going to happen.

So what can you do? What will give you back your agency?
 
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