Afraid of taking the leap from a LT Mono relationship

[Arc]

Hi GalaGirl, sorry for the delay in reply. I took a vacation from all this - I know you would support that!

Sounds like she's admitting to giving mixed messages before.

I'd like to ask if you could be willing to clarify what "protect our relationship" means to you. What do you mean by that?

Hmm... "protect the relationship" means "Think about what the ramifications will be on the relationship before moving forward." This is based on an assumption that the relationship is worth protecting because we value it. This is something she has stated she feels, and so do I. Also, I would add "protect the family unit" is wrapped up in that.

Well, who was the one caging her? Her. She could have spoken up sooner about these thoughts and feelings rather than holding them in so long.

Thank you! I know. She knows that, but the sense I get is, "I was sacrificing my own needs for 20 years, so it's my turn to get what I want." I don't think she really thinks that's a good argument, but she might feel that way anyway.

However it is she feels? You are in the system. You have your thoughts and feelings too. I don't know how you are supposed to change from monogamous marriage to some other model without working out the terms of the new model. If negotiations with you still makes her feel too caged because she just wants to plunge on ahead? And that's a personal limit for you -- you do NOT want to just plunge on ahead? You want to have a talk about hard limits (will never change) and soft limits (things that could change over time)? How this might unfold at a pace you both can deal with before you agree to go there?

The tricky thing is that I think she feels multiple, contradictory things at once. She says she wants to negotiate, and I think she does (I mean, there are always going to be some negotiations, like safer sex, fluid boundaries, etc.), but when any negotiation comes up, it touches on the "I don't like to feel controlled" button.

To be clear, she's not forcing us to plunge ahead. I sort of freaked out a few months ago because it seemed like she was wanting to plunge ahead - she had a new friend who happened to be a guy and was flirting with him, texting a lot; and then she started reading the Ethical Slut and underlining the shit out of it; and joining a poly meetup, and talking about how sex is just another hobby, and it's her body, so... And I was like, "Um, what's happening here? I think we have to discuss this... Are you going to want someone to move in to my house?" (hence my original Intro post). That was a bit over-the-top on my part because she wasn't forcing anything on me. But I was facing the prospect living with a very unsatisfied person for the rest of my life, as well as reframing the story of our relationship to integrate the idea that she was on some level unsatisfied all of these years.

I think she's impatient because time is passing, she's getting older, thinks she'll get less and less attention from men; but she's not saying, "we're doing this now."

Then you could exercise the choice to bow out. You do NOT want to take the bus to Poly Town like THAT. What that means (give up the want to go there, a trial separation, a divorce, etc) is up to you all.

You HAVE to be able to say "I love you. But not even for you will I do stuff that hurts me. Because I have to love and take care of me too."


I wonder why she is willing to hurt herself like that. Is this her habit in other areas of life too? To stuff things down?

Yes, I think it's old religious conditioning - her own family system stuff. I wish she were more interested in working through that, but she does not want to.

I believe feelings ensue after behavior. If she goes around bottling stuff up or "swallowing it" so as to "keep peace on the outside" or avoid having to do conflict resolution? That's just going through the motions then. That's not living authentically. It's like wearing a mask or playing a role.

If wearing a mask leads to feelings of "being caged" over time? Well, that's to be expected. Wearing a mask is not living like the real you. So that behavior leads to feelings of disquiet on the inside. Certainly doesn't lead to feelings of peace on the inside.

If she wants new feelings to ensue, she could change her behavior choices.

Hard as it has been? You guys are ACTUALLY talking now. Getting a deeper understanding of each other.

Yes, we're doing better, but still having a really hard time communicating without defenses going up. I've decided that we can't figure it out without a couples therapist, hopefully in the new year.

Yup. Her behavior choices are not your doing. If she responds or reacts to your honest feelings with defensiveness? Gets all prickly about it in her communication style? I don't get how this way of going would help with other poly partners. But it's her cross/challenge as you say. You have your own stuff to work on.



I hope the cards really are on the table now and you are both speaking PLAIN.

I hope you are able to find a couples therapist you can work with to help determine what the best thing to do is.

Galagirl

Thanks!

 

[kdt26417]

I'm glad you guys are going to look for a couples therapist, it sounds like you need that. How often are you discussing poly issues in the meantime? once a week? once every two weeks? It sounds like you took a break for about three weeks lately. Have you started the discussions again? Can you have the discussions without fighting about it? If not, then that is one more reason why you'll need a couples therapist.

It's good to hear from you again, I hope you'll keep on posting as your situation progresses.

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you! I know. She knows that, but the sense I get is, "I was sacrificing my own needs for 20 years, so it's my turn to get what I want." I don't think she really thinks that's a good argument, but she might feel that way anyway.

Could let her feelings be her issue to deal with.

She has said she's willing to go to couples therapy as long as it's a poly-aware therapist, but I think she has a lot of resistance to that in reality.

Could take it at face value. She says she's willing to go. So set it up and leave it to her to show up or not.

The tricky thing is that I think she feels multiple, contradictory things at once. She says she wants to negotiate, and I think she does (I mean, there are always going to be some negotiations, like safer sex, fluid boundaries, etc.), but when any negotiation comes up, it touches on the "I don't like to feel controlled" button.

Let the therapist help her get that chip off her shoulder and sort that out. Negotiations is coming to agreements. It's not you trying to control her.

In the end, if she cannot get the chip off her shoulder? She's acting out all the time at you? She doesn't appreciate that you are trying?

You are free to say "No, I don't like when I try to talk to you to negotiate something and you instantly get all defensive thinking I'm trying to control you. I don't want to do poly like that where EVERYTHING has to be this big battle. So best we part ways so you can do poly how you want to and I don't have to have a partner who is all prickly at me."

Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

That was a bit over-the-top on my part because she wasn't forcing anything on me.

Good to know she wasn't forcing anything on you.

But I was facing the prospect living with a very unsatisfied person for the rest of my life,

That's the thing. You don't HAVE to be doing that. You can say "I can see you are not happy like this, and I don't want to live with an unsatisfied person the rest of my life. That would not make me happy. So let's talk about a peaceful parting. Then you can find your happiness. And I can find mine. And we can try to be good exes and friends."

Again, hopefully it doesn't come to that. You don't have to be "stuck" in misery for the rest of your life.

...as well as reframing the story of our relationship to integrate the idea that she was on some level unsatisfied all of these years.

Well, yeah. It's a shocker if you thought all was fine and then you find out your partner was keeping secrets and things were NOT fine.

Kinda like "Ok spouse, where was the honesty then between us?"

Yes, we're doing better, but still having a really hard time communicating without defenses going up. I've decided that we can't figure it out without a couples therapist, hopefully in the new year.

Best to talk to a therapist.

I don't know if this helps you any when you go see them.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/uploads/236/64484/MOD_3_LISTENING_TO_FACE_VOICE_AND_BODY.pdf

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

You don't have to take on board that she was unsatisfied on some level for 20 years. Life is long. We all grow and change. We prioritize things. I knew I was poly, but I chose to live mono for 30 years because of conditioning and because I wanted kids. I loved me (ex) husband. Once our kids were getting into their late teens, my priorities started to shift. Things that I could live with before, issues with my husband that seemed bearable, began to feel less bearable. (His low self esteem, passive aggression, extreme jealousy of my friends, and any random person I found attractive. He'd even make up his mind I was hot for this or that person, when I actually wasn't!)

In some ways, it's best to not "carpetbag" and think too much about your past history. Just be here now. See her as she is now, and get in touch with who you are now, as well.

 

[dingedheart]

I think what the op was trying to articulate was the level of frustration and disappointment that the roots of this problem go back 20 yrs. AND all sort of other stuff gets tangled into that as well like false perceptions. Him having a good preception and hers of a POW ..dreaming for the kids to be gone to make her move. Trust....she didnt trust him enough to express her caged feelings all those yrs. Clearly on some level they were living a lie. Betrayal ...He may feel she wasted 20 yrs of his life, etc etc.

AND ALL recent poly or open relationship conversations circle back or highlight issues or feeling from the past so its pretty difficult to NOT take that on board. And this guy sounds pretty analytical who is more interested in the true or answers so as to craft a solution. And all of that is part of the 20 yr truth.

ALSO maybe we need to define or examine what it means to take something on board. I think there a varying degrees / appropriate degrees of reflection on how thing from the past are taken on board and that it always going to be a personal matter.

 

[Arc]

Magdalena and dingedheart, I think you are both right.

She grew and developed and was exposed to these ideas over time. She felt a lot of shame and guilt, and didn't have a name for it, knew she wanted to be with me, didn't want to hurt me, etc.

AND, on a certain level, she wasn't honest with me about something really important to me. We got married, we had kids. I did all that with the understanding that we would be monogamous (not that we wouldn't be attracted to other people of course). Actually, I think there needs to be a new word that is the opposite of Poly: monoamorous (I'm sure someone else thought of that already). It's not just about the sex, it's the idea of falling in love with someone else and being in a relationship with another person. I can imagine multiple scenarios of my life in which that could have been feasible and maybe appealing. I could have gone down those pathways, but I did not, I committed to what I thought was what she wanted, and invested the last 10 years of my life building that.

Taking my nuclear family and adding polyamory halfway through raising the kids... when she admits she's known on some level that she was poly since being a kid!!! That really should have been brought up sooner and I am angry about it.

Also, Magdalena, I don't mean to make assumptions, but I think your situation sounded a lot more toxic than ours is. My wife says she was happy, just wanted to add Poly now that she realizes that it's what she's always wanted.

 

[GalaGirl]

She grew and developed and was exposed to these ideas over time. She felt a lot of shame and guilt, and didn't have a name for it, knew she wanted to be with me, didn't want to hurt me, etc.

That's tough on her.

I can imagine multiple scenarios of my life in which that could have been feasible and maybe appealing. I could have gone down those pathways, but I did not, I committed to what I thought was what she wanted, and invested the last 10 years of my life building that.

Sounds like you both invested in creating a family.

Taking my nuclear family and adding polyamory halfway through raising the kids... when she admits she's known on some level that she was poly since being a kid!!! That really should have been brought up sooner and I am angry about it.

That's tough on you. It's always easier if the "poly thing" comes up while dating and not after marriage.

My wife says she was happy, just wanted to add Poly now that she realizes that it's what she's always wanted.

Well, that's nice to want things. Anyone can want things. But whether or not it happens here? It's not like she can just up and decide that and make unilateral decisions for the couple. If after all this work considering you end up at "Nope. I've considered. It's fine for other people but I just don't want that for me" then she has to respect your decision. And she makes up her mind if she's willing to give up the poly want or not. And then you both figure out if you continue together or not.

Maybe the middle place is you become open to talking to her about her poly thoughts and feeling so she's not going around bottled up. So it is a little more open for her and no more shame/guilt. And it stays just you two so it's closed enough for you. No dating extra people.

But if that's not a place both can thrive? She still wants poly in her life and you want none? Then the conversation may have to change to how to part ways amicably.

Galagirl

 

[Evie]

I've been reading both this thread and your blog so I thought I'd pop a few thoughts that both have sparked in me, here.

When I was 17 or so, my mum gave me a piece of advice. She said that I shouldn't expect someone, one person, to fulfil all of my needs. I know she was meaning that I should make sure I maintain and make new friendships even as I start getting into mono relationships (because I didn't know there were other options at that age). But it turns out that I simply do better when those friendships are also romantic and/or sexual. And absolutely the conversations I have with each person is different (including my platonic best girl friend). It's not that I actively hide anything from Adam, or Puck, or anyone else, it's just that the individual conversations go in different directions.

When Adam and I opened back up after a wee while of monogamy, about 6 months after that we got involved in a new social circle (of his choice) and there I met a couple of men who I was happily getting to know. Now, because Adam and I live out of the city, this meant I had these conversations by text, not often in person. I was on my phone a bit more than usual and, like you, this caused some friction between Adam and I. All he saw was me texting. I was certainly having some NRE with one of those people, but the other was becoming more and more needy, demanding and overbearing. I actually had to ask for Adam's help to get him out of my life. The other one is one of my best friends ("in the whole wide world") now and he and Adam have their own friendship that has nothing to do with me.

I still spend a lot of time on my phone even when I'm at home with Adam (I work away from home most of the year) but it doesn't phase him these days, it's a new normal and it doesn't diminish the time I share with him. I took a leaf out of Mike's book and I keep my phone on silent almost permanently. That way, I don't feel obliged to answer a text the moment it comes in (although I do the moment I see it or else I tend to forget, or worse and more common, I feel rude). I am probably better at signing off from whatever conversation I'm in before it becomes intrusive, after all, I'm not all NRE lala-y now and I have stronger boundaries around needy demand-y people (they don't last long once I spot it). Your wife probably still is in the throes of the "getting to know him" phase (NRE) and could learn to mitigate this and develop a more appropriate balance, too. I'd guess that when she was sitting on the bath, she was probably just signing off for the night, letting him know that she wouldn't be back texting until the next day, she just left it a little late. Perhaps you could agree that on nights where you have agreed to have sex or some other form of intimacy, that she make a point of signing off early.

I hope you and her arrange your own out of the house dates, too. You're right, neither of you should end up feeling like you're just the childcare while the other is out with someone else, platonic or otherwise. I know it's not as simple as getting a babysitter in these Covid times, but that nuclear family adult relationship needs as much care as the extramarital ones. I know mono parents who don't take the time to date each other and they aren't happy relationships, either. Monoamory doesn't guarantee a quality relationship, and polyamory doesn't threaten a quality relationship. But I know that the transition can highlight the weak spots. All the best in navigating it, it can be done.

 

[Polyluke]

Hi Arc,
Your story is .... well very similar to where I’m at / have been at. You have a lot of super helpful people supporting here so I thought I share a possibly similar story you may be able to pull some similarities to.

We’ve together for 15+ years, family with kids, wife comes out as poly, unsure what it means, where to go. Part of her identity - been for years too. Same with attractions to others at the beginning (the “there could be something for me in it” thing) ....

everyone is different and all circumstances are different but I think you’re approaching this I’m a very wise way. Taking to people who live the life, have experience and offer a viewpoint. I’ve spoken to dingedheart quite a bit and he’s been amazing.

Couples therapist is really useful and I can’t recommend it enough. it’s been fantastic to explore feelings, of shame & social stigma / social upbringing for her which is so super powerful and prohibiting, of what is it that drives the poly pull and where the “why am I not enough” feeling stems from. It’s a tough thing to get through. Scary, difficult and draining.

i stared out similar to you, reaching out, understanding it, coming to terms with what it could mean. You don’t have all the answers but for me it was a “if we do this I would like for us to do it together”. I wasn’t sure if I was poly or non-monogamous, did a lot of soul searching and taking. She met someone, we stared off with lots of rules. I quickly worked out that they’re not helpful in building trust, worked to understand why we build rules / what the purpose for them was ....
6 months later she was in a happy poly relationship - still difficult for me at times but I could see the positive change in her and that had a positive effect on me. Jealousy initially played a role, but the longer they were together the more it turned to envy - a much more palatable feeling. You can’t control feelings, they will always come, but you can manage how they manifest themselves.

fast forward another 3 months and I started to be in the ‘I’m not sure I’m monogamous’ space .... lots of talking again and another 6 months on I’m in another relationship.

I’m still not sure if I call myself polyamorous but I’m definitely non-monogamous. Therapy continues but it’s a lot more supportive, we’ve learned to own our own feelings and let the other express their feelings and hold the space. We love routine and have A regular Weekly sex night, a poly chat night (with comfort food) and a non-sex date night. That’s to ensure we still have all the touch points we need, physical, as people (not parents), and friends/supporters.

The rest of the week is free to schedule poly. All with prior agreement of timing so family is covered, and we have reconnection time scheduled afterwards / the next morning/evening. That can take the form of talking, cuddling, watching TV together or sex, depending on what the

anyway, this isn’t about me but I thought some of this may resonate with you from someone who has been through this recently.

Do drop me a line of you feel it might help - not on here masses these days, but will keep an eye out of you wanted to talk.

 

[Arc]

Hi Luke. Wow, thanks so much for the message. I will follow up later in more detail - kind of swamped with holiday stuff. But I had the chance to read your story via your old posts, and it was really helpful and, frankly, inspiring to hear the story of someone making this work. I will definitely reach out to you via direct message. I think I could use the support to whatever degree you feel capable.

I'm with you with, not poly, but could work with non-monogamy. Not sure how meaningful a distinction that actually is - I can pretty easily seeing me fall for someone I'd seeing - but for some reason that feels right. Maybe I just like the whole feel of monogamous "coupledom" so would be willing to have other relationships as long as I could maintain the good parts of what I had before.

Just out of curiosity in terms of numbers - I counted 3 nights/week that are devoted to you and your wife, and the rest are open. That leave 4 more. In practice what does that mean? are you each actually going out 2 nights a week with people? Just trying to envision what my world might look like 1 year from now.

Anyway, I will most definitely reach out.

Arc

Hi Arc,
Your story is .... well very similar to where I’m at / have been at. You have a lot of super helpful people supporting here so I thought I share a possibly similar story you may be able to pull some similarities to.

We’ve together for 15+ years, family with kids, wife comes out as poly, unsure what it means, where to go. Part of her identity - been for years too. Same with attractions to others at the beginning (the “there could be something for me in it” thing) ....

everyone is different and all circumstances are different but I think you’re approaching this I’m a very wise way. Taking to people who live the life, have experience and offer a viewpoint. I’ve spoken to dingedheart quite a bit and he’s been amazing.

Couples therapist is really useful and I can’t recommend it enough. it’s been fantastic to explore feelings, of shame & social stigma / social upbringing for her which is so super powerful and prohibiting, of what is it that drives the poly pull and where the “why am I not enough” feeling stems from. It’s a tough thing to get through. Scary, difficult and draining.

i stared out similar to you, reaching out, understanding it, coming to terms with what it could mean. You don’t have all the answers but for me it was a “if we do this I would like for us to do it together”. I wasn’t sure if I was poly or non-monogamous, did a lot of soul searching and taking. She met someone, we stared off with lots of rules. I quickly worked out that they’re not helpful in building trust, worked to understand why we build rules / what the purpose for them was ....
6 months later she was in a happy poly relationship - still difficult for me at times but I could see the positive change in her and that had a positive effect on me. Jealousy initially played a role, but the longer they were together the more it turned to envy - a much more palatable feeling. You can’t control feelings, they will always come, but you can manage how they manifest themselves.

fast forward another 3 months and I started to be in the ‘I’m not sure I’m monogamous’ space .... lots of talking again and another 6 months on I’m in another relationship.

I’m still not sure if I call myself polyamorous but I’m definitely non-monogamous. Therapy continues but it’s a lot more supportive, we’ve learned to own our own feelings and let the other express their feelings and hold the space. We love routine and have A regular Weekly sex night, a poly chat night (with comfort food) and a non-sex date night. That’s to ensure we still have all the touch points we need, physical, as people (not parents), and friends/supporters.

The rest of the week is free to schedule poly. All with prior agreement of timing so family is covered, and we have reconnection time scheduled afterwards / the next morning/evening. That can take the form of talking, cuddling, watching TV together or sex, depending on what the

anyway, this isn’t about me but I thought some of this may resonate with you from someone who has been through this recently.

Do drop me a line of you feel it might help - not on here masses these days, but will keep an eye out of you wanted to talk.

 

[Polyluke]

Hi Arc,

Happy Holidays!
In terms of nights - a couple are taken up by kid activities and then it’s important to also have some ‘me’ time to recharge. In reality that leaves 1, sometimes 2 nights /evenings a week for my other partner. That’s how it works at least for now. And as we’re all open and talking about stuff there’s little mismatched expectations.

Anyway have a happy holidays, stay safe and talk to you soon.

Hi Luke. Wow, thanks so much for the message. I will follow up later in more detail - kind of swamped with holiday stuff. But I had the chance to read your story via your old posts, and it was really helpful and, frankly, inspiring to hear the story of someone making this work. I will definitely reach out to you via direct message. I think I could use the support to whatever degree you feel capable.

I'm with you with, not poly, but could work with non-monogamy. Not sure how meaningful a distinction that actually is - I can pretty easily seeing me fall for someone I'd seeing - but for some reason that feels right. Maybe I just like the whole feel of monogamous "coupledom" so would be willing to have other relationships as long as I could maintain the good parts of what I had before.

Just out of curiosity in terms of numbers - I counted 3 nights/week that are devoted to you and your wife, and the rest are open. That leave 4 more. In practice what does that mean? are you each actually going out 2 nights a week with people? Just trying to envision what my world might look like 1 year from now.

Anyway, I will most definitely reach out.

Arc

 

[icesong]

For another data point, obviously I have a much more kitchen-table setup _now_ than anything you're talking about. But when dates were still a thing that was outside the house, I really considered 1 evening a week away from home / with my partner to be my sustainable level, with the occasional 2nd night when I was dating more than one person and things lined up that way. I'd still consider that to be the case now, with a pretty consistent alternating 2 nights one week, 1 night the next with Artist - if we were going _out_ for all of those I'd start to feel like I was neglecting my home/kid. Knight spends two nights a week in Joan's room; mostly the nights I'm with Artist but a few more as well. I suspect when we finally get the 4th bedroom done it'll be more like 2-3 nights with me, 2ish nights with her, 2-3 on his own, at least that's what we've talked about.