Am I in the wrong? TRIGGER WARNING

Millhuas

Member
Edit: I've thought more on the situation and find that I was, in my opinion at least, expecting too much. Communication is paramount with everyone in you're life. I'll leave the post up in case someone has a similar situation.


TRIGGER WARNING, I WILL LIGHTLY REFERENCE MY OWN SEXUAL ASSAULT.

Some background of my trauma to hopefully shed light on my perspective. I was r***d by my first girlfriend at the age of 15. Because of my past trauma I have psychological need for physical contact in a relationship but I cannot be made to feel safe in said relationship without complete transparency of information, she knows this and we've been together for 5 years.

My wife have been polyam for a while. We've taken breaks from seeing other people to concentrate on home health before. While on walk, my wife brings up that she's seeing a friend two weeks from now. At the time, Im under the belief that it is just visiting a friend, she later brings polyamory on the same walk. Close to home I ask of the friend is more than just visiting and if it's a date. She says no. I only asked because in terms of emotional processing I have to do it slowly so it doesn't overwhelm me.

Fast forward to two days from her visiting the friend. She tells me that her visit is actually a date. I'm posting this the day before the date and was told that she's gonna be at his house for 7 hrs until pretty late at night.

This is the first date she's had in a year and during that time I was under the belief that we were not actually practicing an open lifestyle die to other conversations.

I feel dirty, and used. I feel like I was lied to and I hope I was not. I have talked to her about it but when I try to talk about concerns and whether something feels wrong or right, she frames the conversation as of shes in trouble and coming after her. I don't care that we are open I felt am relief when we identified as polyam because it felt like I knew who I was. But with everything combined this feels super rushed and I find myself in a dark headspace.

I've tried to be nominated in my post but I know it's still only my perspective. My actual question though: Am I just paranoid and insecure?, Or am I right to feel hurt.

P.S. I don't expect to hear back before this particular ship sales, I am more posting this to say what I need to say in a vacuum. Advice is welcome, but please be respectful.

Edit:I am a bit of a lunkhead when it come to social subtleties and often fail to pick up signals and underlying intention although, I have very good memory when recalling literal events.
 
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Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
Have you considered that when she first told you about this meeting it actually really wasn't a date and she was telling you the truth as it was when she brought it up. And then, as her conversations evolved with this person, it became an opportunity for them to have a date so it morphed into that? I know that's how things often happen in my life. Something that was true last week isn't true today because all sorts of things can change in a week, or even a day.

Since you have been polyamorous for a while, you likely know how to entertain yourself while she's out. Enjoy some "me time."

It sounds like you could both do with a little bit more practice in communication though, if you're feeling deceived and she's feeling attacked. Perhaps a few couples counseling sessions would help. Speaking of which, how's your personal work on your rape going? Sounds like you're still deeply affected and are actually still requiring extra effort ("complete transparency") from your partner to mitigate it rather than fully moving on. Complete transparency isn't actually as healthy as it sounds, everyone should be allowed their privacy.

So, if at all possible, access a bit of therapy to move you both forward.

And have a great night in while she's out. What's your jam? Diehard (since it's nearly Christmas)? Bubble bath? Kindle? Do some of that awesome self care that we all need.
 

Millhuas

Member
Thank you. I had considered that she is telling the truth and I do trust her deep down. And thank you for asking about progress on my rape. I've had a few therapy sessions over the years, I am a lot better than I was. I used to find bottled comfort and while I can't say I've been sober for the time, I no longer drink any more than once a month. She is a rock for me in the storm and I need to be more independent.

It was kinda hard to find this site but I'm glad I did. Between answering a few questions for others, reading the discussions that other people have had your response I do feel welcomed.

Thank you
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
Edit: I've thought more on the situation and find that I was, in my opinion at least, expecting too much. Communication is paramount with everyone in you're life. I'll leave the post up in case someone has a similar situation.


TRIGGER WARNING, I WILL LIGHTLY REFERENCE MY OWN SEXUAL ASSAULT.

Some background of my trauma to hopefully shed light on my perspective. I was r***d by my first girlfriend at the age of 15. Because of my past trauma I have psychological need for physical contact in a relationship but I cannot be made to feel safe in said relationship without complete transparency of information, she knows this and we've been together for 5 years.

My wife have been polyam for a while. We've taken breaks from seeing other people to concentrate on home health before. While on walk, my wife brings up that she's seeing a friend two weeks from now. At the time, Im under the belief that it is just visiting a friend, she later brings polyamory on the same walk. Close to home I ask of the friend is more than just visiting and if it's a date.

Fast forward to two days from her visiting the friend. She tells me that her visit is actually a date. I'm posting this the day before the date and was told that she's gonna be at his house for 7 hrs until pretty late at night.

This is the first date she's had in a year and during that time I was under the belief that we were not actually practicing an open lifestyle die to other conversations.

I feel dirty, and used. I feel like I was lied to and I hope I was not. I have talked to her about it but when I try to talk about concerns and whether something feels wrong or right, she frames the conversation as of shes in trouble and coming after her. I don't care that we are open I felt am relief when we identified as polyam because it felt like I knew who I was. But with everything combined this feels super rushed and I find myself in a dark headspace.

Hi and welcome to the forum.


. My actual question though: Am I just paranoid and insecure?, Or am I right to feel hurt.

you’re there on the ground having conversations. Hearing tone inflections of voice seeing body language putting all that together and If you feel that you were intentionally mislead you certain have the right to feel hurt.

ARE you paranoid and insecure. Maybe but that doesn’t mean you weren’t lied to as well. When not ask to see the email or communications trail starting back when this visit first was planned . I’d think you could tell pretty fast if this shifted from visiting a friend to something way more.


I only asked because in terms of emotional processing I have to do it slowly so it doesn't overwhelm me.
is there a chance she was doing this to not overwhelm you or lesson that reaction at the time of the walk and for the 2 weeks leading up. It does seem a little backwards asking directly at the time but it sounds like the timetable was set and things were moving forward. Better to have you walking around in a normal mood and headspace for 12 days and in a hurt and proceeding mood and dark headspace for 2. THEY always say it’s easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.


I feel dirty, and used. I feel like I was lied to and I hope I was not. I have talked to her about it but when I try to talk about concerns and whether something feels wrong or right, she frames the conversation as of shes in trouble and coming after her.
you can feel however you want With the information or fact that you have. She frames it correctly only if she intentional misled you / lied. Pretty simple to solve really let you see the communications leading up to all of this. Are you justified “ coming after her “ or did this take a turn a few days out.


Edit: I've thought more on the situation and find that I was, in my opinion at least, expecting too much. Communication is paramount with everyone in you're life. I'll leave the post up in case someone has a similar situation.
what do you mean you were expecting too much ?
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
You’re there on the ground having the conversations, hearing the tone, the inflections of voice, seeing the body language, and putting all that together. If you feel that you were intentionally misled, you certainly have the right to feel hurt.

Are you paranoid and insecure? Maybe, but that doesn’t mean you weren’t lied to, as well. Why not ask to see the email or communications trail starting back when this visit was first planned? I think you would be able to tell pretty quickly if this shifted from visiting a friend to something much more.

Is there a chance she was doing this to not overwhelm you, or to lessen your reaction at the time of the walk and for the 2 weeks leading up to the visit? It does seem a little backwards, asking directly at the time, but it sounds like the timetable was set and things were moving forward. She might have thought it would be better to have you walking around in a normal mood and headspace for 12 days, and in a hurt and processing mood and dark headspace for only 2. "They" always say it’s easier to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

You feel however you feel with the information or facts you have. She framed it incorrectly only if she intentionally misled you or lied. It's pretty simple to solve, really. She should let you see the communications leading up to all of this. Are you justified in "coming after her,“ or did this take a turn a few days out?
I happen to disagree that the wife has any need to show her husband her text communications with her friend. I am always against a person thinking they have the right to see communications between their primary partner/spouse and anyone else, no matter whom that other person is. That reeks of codependence, suspicion, being overly-entangled, etc.

The other person in the V, so to speak (the wife's friend), has a right to privacy in their polyamorous relationship. You can't demand the wife record videos of what she says or does on the actual date. Nor does a spouse have a right to read any messages, text, emails, etc., between them.

Either there is trust, or there isn't. If there is no trust, if we feel things are being omitted, we can just request our partner to be more transparent. We can request updates if our spouse/partner thinks a visit is probably going to be more than shared vanilla activities and talking, and might go someplace sexual or romantic, i.e., be a "date." If it might involve sex, we need to know, for our own sexual health safety, and for general respect and reassurance purposes.

If this couple is already poly, they should know that there needs to be consent from all parties if a meeting with a new person might go to a sexual or romantic place. If there is no consent, it's not polyamory, it's just fucking around. This requires us to be honest with ourselves, and then honest with our existing partner. If we aren't sure whether a meeting will be romantic/sexual or not, we can say something to our partner like: "It might go romantic/sexual, but I am just not sure."

Sometimes we don't know if it will go romantic, because while we might feel chemistry, sexual interest, we have no surety that the other person feels the same way. So, we can say, "I do feel attracted to this person, but I don't know if they feel that way about me. I'd be OK or happy if it turns out that they do feel the way I do."

This kind of openness does not violate anyone else's assumption of privacy in an adult relationship. But at the same time, it prepares the existing partner by telling them that there is some kind of sexual/romantic tension going on, that could result in words or actions between these 2 during the meeting, to reflect and express those feelings.

All that said, I agree with Evie that feelings can definitely grow in the course of 12 days, and what might have seemed purely platonic on Day 1 could evolve into something more romantic by Day 10.
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
The picture I got is that they ( as a couple) agreed to close or being on a hold from dating others. It also sounded to me like the conversation to meet some friends during a walk was a heads up type conversation of something already in the works . Not I want to let you know I’m now calling an end to this supposed break and I’m actively in the dating hunt . And when he asked specifically he was told NO.…according to him.

YOU disagree that she has any need to show him her email or texts and that he has a right to seek them. I don’t think he has a right nor does he probably. And yes there’s suspicions as a result of bad communication prior to setting up visits or dates On her part. However one way to prove she’s telling the truth and just bad at being timely with information is allowing him to read the correspondence .


SO the short answer Mags you do think he’s in the wrong . Blind trust. Assume good intention even when our brain is screaming the opposite What about safer sex guidelines ? What about any testing result ….no need to produce or provide those results as long as you said your clean.

 

Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
Does anyone have to be "in the wrong" or even wrong? I firmly believe that most people are just doing their best at any given moment. Maybe that's because I'm not cunning enough to create my own long game nefarious plans and tend to think that most of the population aren't plotting and scheming ways to hurt those around them.

Why is a date such a threat? Why are you feeling "dirty and used" when you have had a loving and supportive "rock" who has also been exclusive to you for a year when you have previously had experience in polyamory?

At a guess, you felt "dirty and used" after your rape. And these lingering memories are now being projected onto this situation that has absolutely nothing to do with that or your rapist. You WIFE can be both devoted to you AND perfectly able to go on a date (and whatever that entails). That's what polyamorists do. Devotion isn't exclusivity.

Furthermore, a year should be long enough to sort through whatever caused the pause. If it's just been swept under the rug and not actively worked on, then I'm not surprised that the wife may be forcing it forward by this becoming a date.

She's not taking anything away from your relationship by going on this date. She not doing this TO you, she's doing this FOR her. The date may go well, it may fizzle, but she's being authentic in acting on her desires. If you can't honestly wish her a good night, that's a you problem, not a her problem and points to some attachment issues that you would probably benefit on working on. Polysecure could be worth working through.
 

Millhuas

Member
I happen to disagree that the wife has any need to show her husband her text communications with her friend. I am always against a person thinking they have the right to see communications between their primary partner/spouse and anyone else, no matter whom that other person is. That reeks of codependence, suspicion, being overly-entangled, etc.

The other person in the V, so to speak (the wife's friend), has a right to privacy in their polyamorous relationship. You can't demand the wife record videos of what she says or does on the actual date. Nor does a spouse have a right to read any messages, text, emails, etc., between them.

Either there is trust, or there isn't. If there is no trust, if we feel things are being omitted, we can just request our partner to be more transparent. We can request updates if our spouse/partner thinks a visit is probably going to be more than shared vanilla activities and talking, and might go someplace sexual or romantic, i.e., be a "date." If it might involve sex, we need to know, for our own sexual health safety, and for general respect and reassurance purposes.

If this couple is already poly, they should know that there needs to be consent from all parties if a meeting with a new person might go to a sexual or romantic place. If there is no consent, it's not polyamory, it's just fucking around. This requires us to be honest with ourselves, and then honest with our existing partner. If we aren't sure whether a meeting will be romantic/sexual or not, we can say something to our partner like: "It might go romantic/sexual, but I am just not sure."

Sometimes we don't know if it will go romantic, because while we might feel chemistry, sexual interest, we have no surety that the other person feels the same way. So, we can say, "I do feel attracted to this person, but I don't know if they feel that way about me. I'd be OK or happy if it turns out that they do feel the way I do."

This kind of openness does not violate anyone else's assumption of privacy in an adult relationship. But at the same time, it prepares the existing partner by telling them that there is some kind of sexual/romantic tension going on, that could result in words or actions between these 2 during the meeting, to reflect and express those feelings.

All that said, I agree with Evie that feelings can definitely grow in the course of 12 days, and what might have seemed purely platonic on Day 1 could evolve into something more romantic by Day 10.

I agree with you that I don't want to invade privacy and when we first started out we "didn't want to get a play-by-play" i.e. no gratuitous, or disrespectful details. Though A level of transparency where we establish the possibility of something will definitely help. Thanks for the advice.
 

Millhuas

Member
Hi and welcome to the forum.




you’re there on the ground having conversations. Hearing tone inflections of voice seeing body language putting all that together and If you feel that you were intentionally mislead you certain have the right to feel hurt.

ARE you paranoid and insecure. Maybe but that doesn’t mean you weren’t lied to as well. When not ask to see the email or communications trail starting back when this visit first was planned . I’d think you could tell pretty fast if this shifted from visiting a friend to something way more.



is there a chance she was doing this to not overwhelm you or lesson that reaction at the time of the walk and for the 2 weeks leading up. It does seem a little backwards asking directly at the time but it sounds like the timetable was set and things were moving forward. Better to have you walking around in a normal mood and headspace for 12 days and in a hurt and proceeding mood and dark headspace for 2. THEY always say it’s easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.



you can feel however you want With the information or fact that you have. She frames it correctly only if she intentional misled you / lied. Pretty simple to solve really let you see the communications leading up to all of this. Are you justified “ coming after her “ or did this take a turn a few days out.



what do you mean you were expecting too much ?
I was expecting a slower pace that I move at and not the pacing she has.
 

Millhuas

Member
Does anyone have to be "in the wrong" or even wrong? I firmly believe that most people are just doing their best at any given moment. Maybe that's because I'm not cunning enough to create my own long game nefarious plans and tend to think that most of the population aren't plotting and scheming ways to hurt those around them.

Why is a date such a threat? Why are you feeling "dirty and used" when you have had a loving and supportive "rock" who has also been exclusive to you for a year when you have previously had experience in polyamory?

At a guess, you felt "dirty and used" after your rape. And these lingering memories are now being projected onto this situation that has absolutely nothing to do with that or your rapist. You WIFE can be both devoted to you AND perfectly able to go on a date (and whatever that entails). That's what polyamorists do. Devotion isn't exclusivity.

Furthermore, a year should be long enough to sort through whatever caused the pause. If it's just been swept under the rug and not actively worked on, then I'm not surprised that the wife may be forcing it forward by this becoming a date.

She's not taking anything away from your relationship by going on this date. She not doing this TO you, she's doing this FOR her. The date may go well, it may fizzle, but she's being authentic in acting on her desires. If you can't honestly wish her a good night, that's a you problem, not a her problem and points to some attachment issues that you would probably benefit on working on. Polysecure could be worth working through.
Thanks, she and I talked about it for a while last night and came to realize that she and I dont make time for each other and that needs to be worked on. We also asked the question of whether I'm projecting my trauma onto this situation.
 

Millhuas

Member
Does anyone have to be "in the wrong" or even wrong? I firmly believe that most people are just doing their best at any given moment. Maybe that's because I'm not cunning enough to create my own long game nefarious plans and tend to think that most of the population aren't plotting and scheming ways to hurt those around them.

Why is a date such a threat? Why are you feeling "dirty and used" when you have had a loving and supportive "rock" who has also been exclusive to you for a year when you have previously had experience in polyamory?

At a guess, you felt "dirty and used" after your rape. And these lingering memories are now being projected onto this situation that has absolutely nothing to do with that or your rapist. You WIFE can be both devoted to you AND perfectly able to go on a date (and whatever that entails). That's what polyamorists do. Devotion isn't exclusivity.

Furthermore, a year should be long enough to sort through whatever caused the pause. If it's just been swept under the rug and not actively worked on, then I'm not surprised that the wife may be forcing it forward by this becoming a date.

She's not taking anything away from your relationship by going on this date. She not doing this TO you, she's doing this FOR her. The date may go well, it may fizzle, but she's being authentic in acting on her desires. If you can't honestly wish her a good night, that's a you problem, not a her problem and points to some attachment issues that you would probably benefit on working on. Polysecure could be worth working through.
Nobody HAS to be wrong, in most situations. In this one I had concerns that at the time we're not being addressed. They have been addressed since posting this and we have a plan of action for both of us in place.
 

Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
Thanks, she and I talked about it for a while last night and came to realize that she and I dont make time for each other and that needs to be worked on. We also asked the question of whether I'm projecting my trauma onto this situation.
I'm really pleased for you that you were able to open a meaningful dialogue that found one of the main issues and can now work on that. Awesome step forward!
 

Millhuas

Member
I'm really pleased for you that you were able to open a meaningful dialogue that found one of the main issues and can now work on that. Awesome step forward!
Yeah, I've had a pretty rough go at it before meeting my wife. And I normally don't get this bad. I know that she would never hurt me and she opted to cancel her date so we can work through this episode, I refused to because I think it would just add to the problem more by making me feel like an obstacle. A lot of painful emotions from my past are coming to say hello and I'm glad that, even if they're strangers, I have someone to turn towards.
 

Millhuas

Member
The picture I got is that they ( as a couple) agreed to close or being on a hold from dating others. It also sounded to me like the conversation to meet some friends during a walk was a heads up type conversation of something already in the works . Not I want to let you know I’m now calling an end to this supposed break and I’m actively in the dating hunt . And when he asked specifically he was told NO.…according to him.

YOU disagree that she has any need to show him her email or texts and that he has a right to seek them. I don’t think he has a right nor does he probably. And yes there’s suspicions as a result of bad communication prior to setting up visits or dates On her part. However one way to prove she’s telling the truth and just bad at being timely with information is allowing him to read the correspondence .


SO the short answer Mags you do think he’s in the wrong . Blind trust. Assume good intention even when our brain is screaming the opposite What about safer sex guidelines ? What about any testing result ….no need to produce or provide those results as long as you said your clean.
You're correct in regards to what said while on the walk, we addressed it and have a plan of action to better communicate, make time for each other, and for me to find the counseling I need to assimilate my past traumas better within me.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Hello Millhuas,

Going from your initial description, your girlfriend, well, lied to you about whether the "friend" she was seeing was more than just a date. Then she told you the "truth" later, as if delaying honesty would somehow help you ease into it.

Sure you are right to feel hurt, but more importantly, do you want to stay with this girlfriend who would be dishonest with you. You have your own ethics and self-respect to consider.

It's conceivable that she could have had platonic feelings towards this friend in the beginning (when she first told you she was going to see him), then that those feelings could have morphed into romantic feelings. But even then, I'm not sure why she didn't tell you, "My feelings towards this friend have changed. I now have romantic feelings for him, and this could be a date."

It does however sound like you and your girlfriend have talked things through, and are making some progress. So maybe some of these issues have been resolved, and I am glad to hear that.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 

MeeraReed

Active member
I think one of the most difficult things a poly couple can do is make the "simple" rule that the spouses have to let each other know ahead of time that a particular hangout will be a date.

This is a very common rule, but it often doesn't work.

On the surface, the rule sounds simple and reasonable. Surely my partner can let me know ahead of time that he's going on a date? Surely it's just common courtesy to communicate that? Won't I feel surprised and hurt and betrayed to find out after the fact that he went on a date? Why not just tell me ahead of time?

Well, because...dating just doesn't work like that. When I was single, dating-related stuff could be unpredictable and spontaneous. A hangout with a friend turns into a flirty sexy evening. Or a planned hangout shifts into a date as we start flirting over IM leading up to the event. Or someone invites me to dinner, and I'm not sure if it's a date or not a date. Or, someone I like invites me to what I think is a date, but it's a platonic hangout. This is all just a normal part of meeting people and being open to dating new people.

I think sometimes married couples opening their relationship forget what it was like to be single. Or, maybe didn't date much when they were single. Or, one partner moves much slower / is much less spontaneous than the other partner and feels distressed by the spontaneous partner not "communicating" appropriately ahead of time.

Another common situation that I see play out a lot on these forums: one partner is struggling more with the idea of poly and needs more time to process poly-related information. Maybe info about dates and other partners is upsetting to hear about. So, the non-struggling partner tries to be vague about communications in an effort to avoid hurting their partner, or attempts to give out information slowly over time instead of all at once.

The struggling partner then feels like they can't trust their partner. It is sad for everyone involved.

OP, it sounds like you've gotten some good advice here and that things are going better now.
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
Does anyone have to be "in the wrong" or even wrong?
well in a perfect world maybe not. But most newbies transitioning into the poly world won’t be that lucky. We know this is no “ right” way to have a poly marriage but there sure as fuck are a lots of wrong ways to go about doing it. And IMO if someone screws up I think it would be better to own the mistake /take responsibility learn from it and move forward . NOT play clever word games or gaslight or build elaborate cases of justification

I firmly believe that most people are just doing their best at any given moment.
SURE ….RIGHT up to the point they’re NOT. FUNNY thing about human nature …people do stupid, thoughtless things, they get caught up in the moment , they make bad decisions not intentionally not malicious but it happens.

Maybe that's because I'm not cunning enough to create my own long game nefarious plans and tend to think that most of the population aren't plotting and scheming ways to hurt those around them.
WOW …SERIOUSLY. THIS is how you see this ? This is how you see yourself ? I find this incredibly insulting .

Why is a date such a threat?
WHY DO YOU ASSUME it is ? maybe it’s more about the process than the outcomes .


Why are you feeling "dirty and used" when you have had a loving and supportive "rock" who has also been exclusive to you for a year when you have previously had experience in polyamory?
PROBABLY has to do with the many conversations that have occurred when they were actively dating and the reason they elected to pause and the timetable for the pause and the necessary conversations when everyone was ready to resume operations.

At a guess, you felt "dirty and used" after your rape. And these lingering memories are now being projected onto this situation that has absolutely nothing to do with that or your rapist. You WIFE can be both devoted to you AND perfectly able to go on a date (and whatever that entails). That's what polyamorists do. Devotion isn't exclusivity.
Wow …at a guess. AND then using his past trauma against him. I can’t imagine anyone doing that to a woman.
I think you took it too far in defending you client.

Furthermore, a year should be long enough to sort through whatever caused the pause.
yes …furthermore ….NO has to be wrong but you’re wrong for taking a yr …not that we know it’s you that asked for they pause or that other life stuff or covid, etc that caused the calendar to slide but what the fuck ever it’s too long so get over it.

I‘m going to have to use furthermore when writing threads….it’s got such a nice tone.😆👍

If it's just been swept under the rug and not actively worked on, then I'm not surprised that the wife may be forcing it forward by this becoming a date.
NO NO NO ….wait a fucking minute we don’t think nefarious thoughts. WE assume everyone is good and kind and loving and supportive. TAKE IT BACK ! There has been no rug sweeping and his loving wife would never lie about the nature of her relationship with the friend.



She's not taking anything away from your relationship by going on this date. She not doing this TO you, she's doing this FOR her. The date may go well, it may fizzle, but she's being authentic in acting on her desires.
does that mean the sentence above she’s forced to lie TO HIM by way of doing it for herself to be her authentic self ?

If you can't honestly wish her a good night, that's a you problem, not a her problem
I Think this would another good place for a furthermore. That’s right…does anyone have to be wrong ….well you are. For being in a dark and negative head space. And furthermore < 😆👍 if you can’t “ honestly “ wish her a good night after being off for a yr and all the deception to get this evening you got a lot to learn about being a good little poly partner. Your suppose to take this kick in the balls and say thank you and have fun tonight …maybe offer some extra money, I hope his dick or tongue is as magical as imagined or something inspiring orm” positive “ On the way out the door. That’s what you should do.

and points to some attachment issues that you would probably benefit on working on. Polysecure could be worth working through.
do you see any her problems ?? Outside of the possible deception and lying which she was forced into to become her authentic self.
 
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icesong

Moderator
Staff member
WOW …SERIOUSLY. THIS is how you see this ? This is how you see yourself ? I find this incredibly insulting .
Why is this insulting? Evie didn't say that she, you, nor anyone else wasn't *smart* enough to make long term nefarious plans, but that she was not *cunning* enough (Cunning, adjective, "having or showing skill in achieving one's ends by deceit or evasion", per the Oxford dictionary). I'd like to think most people are not *cunning*, and that *most* people have good intentions. So far in my forty years on the planet, I've found that to be true (if less so as one moves up in corporate or political circles, but I digress).
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
Why is this insulting? Evie didn't say that she, you, nor anyone else wasn't *smart* enough to make long term nefarious plans, but that she was not *cunning* enough (Cunning, adjective, "having or showing skill in achieving one's ends by deceit or evasion", per the Oxford dictionary). I'd like to think most people are not *cunning*, and that *most* people have good intentions. So far in my forty years on the planet, I've found that to be true (if less so as one moves up in corporate or political circles, but I digress).

I thought it sounded like moral grandstanding. I believe this and then add the passive aggressive comment not being cunning enough to hatch long term nefarious plans Implying those who see humans as sometimes flawed are cooking up long term nefarious plans.

i believe people are basically good and doing their best. Stand alone sentence.

VS ….I believe people are basically good and doing the best because I believe in Jesus and go to church twice a day and don’t hang out in bars or have sex with animals


I think someone in a relationship or in this case a marriage having an in person conversation is picking way more information than the a sentence or 2 every can give justice to On the Internet. the OP having some history ( probably many yrs in this case ) of communications and patterns surrounding communication or behavior and topics discussed might sense somethings off / not right. WHY ? BECAUSE OF time served not because he super cunning and has long term nefarious plans. I thought it came off a bit judgy to assume she was completely innocent and he was at best guilty of overreacting and at worst plotting long term nefarious things.

IMO new couples trying to make the transition to poly seem to either over estimate the strength of their marriage or relationship. “We’ve survived lots of rough times so pretty much we‘re bullet proof . OR they underestimate how fragile their relationship really is. MY suggestion is in the early stages you always error on the side of caution. It might be a bit more work or a bit longer / delayed gratification but in the end you come out intact. if you get down the road where you‘re not confident in the things your partner tells you that’s going to spin into a completely different and destructive dynamic.
 
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Inaniel

Active member
If you get down the road where you‘re not confident in the things your partner tells you that’s going to spin into a completely different and destructive dynamic.

Wouldn't the first manifestation of that destructive dynamic be the invasion of privacy? Once you open that door how far does it go?
 
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