Being her cuckold is one thing, but I don't think I can cope with poly

[Amygdala]

Lena would not be ok with me seeing anyone else.

Why not? What if you changed your mind and wanted to?

When we were in our slow process of opening up, I was not cool with the idea of Minxi seeing another man at all. Only women. But I had to reject that one-sided notion. If I wanted the freedom to sleep with other women, she had the right to sleep with other men. Even if she chose not to, she still could.

 

[FallenAngelina]

...I would raise the child as my own and nobody would know. I was ok with that and I guess that it is quite common in cuckold relationships.

This mindset is now largely anachronistic, so I'd hope that your guess about today's cuck community is wrong and out of date. Not only is it foolhardy to keep such a secret with such easy access to DNA testing now, it's cruel and a human rights violation. The Western world has come a long way and we now recognize that to withhold heritage information is to cut a person off from what everyone else enjoys as a basic of their human existence. If you haven't experienced it, you can't imagine the pain of a world without it. The old "what they don't know won't hurt them" attitude about hiding true parentage is not only passe, it's been proven to be incredibly damaging to the adult child. I'd be surprised if those in the cuck community are so cavalier about this as your mention would imply.

 

[David1985]

Why not?

What if you changed your mind and wanted to?

When we were in our slow process of opening up I was not cool with the idea of Minxi seeing another man at all. Only women. But I had to reject that one sided notion.

If I wanted the freedom to sleep with other women she had the right to sleep with other men, even if she chose not to, she still could.

Why not? Because I'm her submissive and her cuckold, and I just don't want to. I'm guessing your relationship isn't a cuckold one?

 

[David1985]

This mindset is now largely anachronistic, so I'd hope that your guess about today's cuck community is wrong and out of date. Not only is it foolhardy to keep such a secret, with such easy access to DNA testing now, it's cruel, and a human-rights violation. The Western world has come a long way and we now recognize that to withhold heritage information is to cut a person off from what everyone else enjoys as a basic of their human existence. If you haven't experienced it, you can't imagine the pain of a world without it. The old "What they don't know won't hurt them" attitude about hiding true parentage is not only passe, it's been proven to be incredibly damaging to the adult child. I'd be surprised if those in the cuck community are so cavalier about this as your mention would imply.

I accept that it is far from ideal, but children are being raised by men who are not their biological fathers all the time, quite often without either the child or father knowing. It is quite common for the bull to impregnate the woman in cuck relationships. Again, not ideal, but that is the reality.

 

[Amygdala]

Why not? Because I'm her submissive and her cuckold, and I just don't want to. I'm guessing your relationship isn't a cuckold one?

Correct. It is not cuckold in any way, David. It is fine if you do not want to, but does being a cuckold mean you have no say at all in your own rights and choices? Why can't you be her cuckold and another person's lover? I understand being a cuckold in your own bedroom, but don't understand being a cuckold in your entire life and ability to advocate for your own desires, if you had them.

Not judging, just asking.

I accept that it is far from ideal, but children are being raised by men who are not their biological fathers all the time, quite often without either the child or father knowing. It is quite common for the bull to impregnate the woman in cuck relationships. Again, not ideal, but that is the reality.

That might be the reality, but it still doesn't make it right by the child if it can be known. Children have an enormous capacity to handle all sorts of truths. It's the lies that harm them.

 

[FallenAngelina]

It is quite common for the bull to impregnate the woman in cuck relationships.

Why would these men be less responsible about birth control than any other men? Is impregnating part of the fetish? If so, this is a practice that needs some serious examination if lies about heritage are commonly part of it. This goes way beyond consenting adults and involves people who do not consent at all to the situation. The attitude is cavalier and shows gross negligence and ignorance of the long term damage. Withholding parentage and heritage information is a human rights violation. Just because it is or used to be common doesn't mean it's OK. We have ceased with many human rights violations that used to be common practice.

 

[David1985]

It is fine if you do not want to, but does being a cuckold mean you have no say at all in your own rights and choices?

I have the ONLY say in all my own rights and choices.

Why can't you be her cuckold and another person's lover?

I don't think you quite understand the cuckold dynamic. Cuckolds tend to be 100% faithful to their partners, while the cuckoldress is free to have sex with another person or persons. I do not want to have another lover, and she would not want me to. As someone who is sexually submissive, I would do as she says with regards to anything sexual, within reason.

I understand being a cuckold in your own bedroom but don't understand being a cuckold in your entire life and ability to advocate for your own desires if you had them.

I am not a cuckold or a submissive in my entire life. Quite the opposite, in fact. I can advocate for my own desires, and one of my desires is to be her cuckold. One major strength of our relationship is our independence. Our finances are separate. We both have our own properties, although we live in hers. We are not in each other's pockets all the time.
She has her friends and I have mine, although some have become mutual. I do what I want, and she does what she wants. We BOTH want OUR cuckold relationship. Recently a spanner has been thrown in the works due to her falling in love with her Bull. This intially upset me, but we are working on it because we still love each other, and while I am not 100% at the moment, I'm nearly there. By and large, the three of us are happy at the moment.

 

[David1985]

Why would these men be less responsible about birth control than any other men? Is impregnating part of the fetish? If so, this is a practice that needs some serious examination if lies about heritage are commonly part of it. This goes way beyond consenting adults and involves people who do not consent at all to the situation. The attitude is cavalier, and shows gross negligence and ignorance of the long-term damage. Withholding parentage and heritage information is a human-rights violation. Just because it is or used to be common doesn't mean it's OK. We have ceased with many human rights violations that used to be common practice.

The bull impregnating the woman is part of the fantasy aspect of cuckolding, but not the reality. As I said, nobody would choose it, but even if everyone involved is responsible about birth control, unwanted pregnancies can, and do happen.

It is much better to have a conversation about what would happen in that circumstance before it does happen. In our case, I assured Lena that if necessary, I would raise the child as my own, as opposed to running off and leaving the child without a father, and Lena alone.

 

[Amygdala]

...

I don't understand cuckolding, so I won't comment more on the subject, David.

I did get the impression from the earlier posts that your GF was kind of railroading you into accepting relationship things you were not comfortable with, and got pretty mad that you didn't accept her changing things you didn't agree to.

But it is good that you all feel better and in some sort of happy place.

 

[Magdlyn]

The bull impregnating the woman is part of the fantasy aspect of cuckolding, but not the reality.

In my understanding, a "breeding fetish" is not always present, but obviously, in your case, it is.

Some cuck dynamics involve "race play" as well. That is, a black bull is preferred, since black people are seen as superior to white people. And white women present as having a fetish of being impregnated by a black guy.

However, if the bull is not into actually being an involved father to this hypothetical kid, there is a huge problem. The fun is over. It means he would be a "deadbeat dad." The fetishistic pleasure could actually end, as the legal issues began, and the baby was accepted as a human being with rights for care and support.

As I said, nobody would choose it, but even if everyone involved is responsible about birth control, unwanted pregnancies can, and do happen.

It is much better to have a conversation about what would happen in that circumstance before it does happen. In our case, I assured Lena that if necessary, I would raise the child as my own, as opposed to running off and leaving the child without a father, and Lena alone.

So, if Grant actually did get Lena pregnant, he does not agree to actually being an involved father to his biological child. He has turned over the rights to his biological child to you, David? Lena would keep the pregnancy, not terminate it? If there was a successful birth, are you saying Grant would leave her and the baby? Of course, in no way would Lena ever be "alone." She'd always have you.

You would have to legally adopt Grant's kid to be its legal parent and absolve him of the responsibility of raising the child and supporting it financially. These issues actually are quite pertinent to the MFM poly V. Each V does have to decide who would be in what relationship to any children born from the unions.

 

[fuchka]

Mags, I think David was describing the agreement he had with Lena when things were just a cuck setup, before transitioning to polyamory.

 

[David1985]

I don't understand cuckolding, so I wont comment more on the subject, David.

I did get the impression from the earlier posts that your GF was kind of railroading you into accepting relationship things you were not comfortable with, and got pretty mad that you didn't accept her changing things you didn't agree to.

But it is good that you all feel better and in some sort of happy place.

I accept that if you're not into cuckolding it must be very difficult to understand, in the same way I did not understand polyamory, and someone being able to love two people at the same time. I found it very difficult to hear Lena say that, which led to problems.

She asked me to trust her, though, and although there were arguments at first, and we both got mad at times, overall I would say that we were always still getting on well. I took a leap of faith and did as she asked. I trusted her, and so far I see that she was right.

So far...

 

[David1985]

However, if the bull is not into actually being an involved father to this hypothetical kid, there is a huge problem. The fun is over. It means he would be a "deadbeat dad." The fetishistic pleasure could actually end, as the legal issues began, and the baby was accepted as a human being with rights for care and support.

So, if Grant actually did get Lena pregnant, he does not agree to actually being an involved father to his biological child. He has turned over the rights to his biological child to you, David? Lena would keep the pregnancy, not terminate it? If there was a successful birth, are you saying Grant would leave her and the baby? Of course, in no way would Lena ever be "alone." She'd always have you.

You would have to legally adopt Grant's kid to be its legal parent and absolve him of the responsibility of raising the child and supporting it financially. These issues actually are quite pertinent to the MFM poly V. Each V does have to decide who would be in what relationship to any children born from the unions.

No. The conversation we had regarding me raising Grant's child as my own was some time ago, long before they fell in love. It does not apply now, because Grant wants to be the father to Lena's future child. Not just the child's bio father, but a father in the same way he is to his son. Lena tells me that he is a great dad, and although I've only been in their company once, I would agree.

I agree that these issues are very pertinent to any MFM V.

 

[David1985]

Mags, I think David was describing the agreement he had with Lena when things were just a cuck setup, before transitioning to polyamory.

That is correct, Fuchka.

 

[Magdlyn]

The conversation we had regarding me raising Grant's child as my own was some time ago, long before they fell in love. It does not apply now, because Grant wants to be the father to Lena's future child. Not just the child's bio father, but a father in the same way he is to his son. Lena tells me that he is a great dad, and although I've only been in their company once, I would agree.

I agree that these issues are very pertinent to any MFM V.

Okay. So, is Lena fertile and having sex with Grant during ovulation? Then it's just a matter of time before a baby could be on the way.

Grant seems to live alone. You never said who takes care of his son while he spends so much time with you and Lena. Maybe the boy lives with Grant's ex, the mother, most of the time?

I expect if Lena gets pregnant and gives birth, Grant will want to spend a lot of time at your house. (That is, Lena's house. I understand you have your own house, but don't live there?)

Grant may soon have two children living in two (or three) different homes.

 

[David1985]

Is Lena fertile and having sex with Grant during ovulation? Then it's just a matter of time before a baby could be on the way.

I told Lena last night that I was now ok with her having Grant's baby, and she was over the moon. She has been saying that she was not ready for a child yet, but that was for my benefit, because she knew it upset me. But with it settled, I don't think that it will be long until she is pregnant.

Grant seems to live alone. You never said who takes care of his son while he spends so much time with you and Lena. Maybe the boy lives with Grant's ex, the mother, most of the time?

Grant's son lives with his mother. Grant has him Wednesday night and every other weekend. He sees him at other times as well, though.

I expect if Lena gets pregnant and gives birth, Grant will want to spend a lot of time at your house. (That is, Lena's house. I understand you have your own house, but don't live there?)

Yes, the idea of him spending two nights a week at ours is so that we get used to the three of us living together before it becomes a full time thing.

Grant may soon have 2 children living in two (or three) different homes.

Two children living in two places, with both in one on certain nights. Things are good so far, although I do still have certain doubts.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

... We agreed that if it happened I would raise the child as my own and nobody would know.

That was pretty much our deal when Dude and I got together, except, at the time, I really did want to have a child, which led to some very interesting conversations about the rights of individuals to their own genetic background (family medical history, etc.). But people do use sperm donors, and MrS and I hadn't gotten pregnant in 9 years, so it wasn't that big of a stretch.

(The difference is that Dude never wanted to be a father, although a person never really knows how they are going to react until the situation happens to them.)

ETA: Sorry, I missed that the conversation had gone on from there, with excellent points made. (I am not versed in any kink dynamics so I don't have anything to say there.) I was looking at my situation more along the lines of-- with the case of an anonymous sperm donor, you still have information and medical screening information, etc. So with a non-anonymous sperm donor you have a bit more info.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

You would have to legally adopt Grant's kid to be its legal parent and absolve him of the responsibility of raising the child and supporting it financially. These issues actually are quite pertinent to the MFM poly V. Each V does have to decide who would be in what relationship to any children born from the unions.

Just a footnote to this: it does vary from state to state. In the state that I live in, for example, any baby born to a married woman is automatically the husband's child unless she chooses to name a biological father on the birth certificate. Just to be on the safe side, our plan was for Dude to sign a legal document disclaiming any paternity rights and absolving him of any responsibilities.

We actually had a case a few weeks ago: husband and wife were separated, she had a ONS and got pregnant. The sperm donor wanted nothing to do with the situation and split. The husband and wife reconciled. He was there for the delivery, cut the cord. The sperm donor's name was listed nowhere on anything.

They take the baby home and, as far as the state is concerned, they are the mom and dad. What/when they tell the kid is a different conversation. They each have other kids with other people and, I think, one together. If the husband and wife split (again), she can't go after the sperm donor for child support, because she didn't put his name on the birth certificate. She can go after her (now-future-ex) for support, as they were married when the baby was born.

I'm glad I am not in law. It doesn't make sense from one jurisdiction to the next, but you do come up with some interesting puzzles.

 

[Magdlyn]

Women have always gotten pregnant by men not their husbands, as humans are naturally promiscuous. Of course, if found out, this was seen as a shame to the family. God told Eve to desire only her husband, after all. hahahaha

But all those old jokes about how little Johnny looks more like "the milkman" than his supposed father... it's always happened. We are just starting to accept the reality, finally!

 

[David1985]

Women have always gotten pregnant by men not their husbands, as humans are naturally promiscuous. Of course, if found out, this was seen as a shame to the family. God told Eve to desire only her husband, after all. hahahaha

But all those old jokes about how little Johnny looks more like "the milkman" than his supposed father... it's always happened. We are just starting to accept the reality, finally!

That is right, Mags. And mostly it works. However, this will not apply to us because Grant being the dad will not be a secret. Lena is happy and will start trying as soon as this whole Corona thing is over.