Being her cuckold is one thing, but I don't think I can cope with poly

[David1985]

Hi,

Firstly, I'm new to the forum, so I hope this is in the right place. I'll try and keep this short.

I have been in a relationship with my GF for nearly three years now, and she is someone that I truly love and adore. She is my best and closest friend, as well as my partner.

However, it became apparent very quickly in our relationship that we were not totally compatible in bed. At first this was something that we tried to fix ourselves, but when I could not, she got very frustrated. She suggested the idea of her having a lover, and while this was very difficult for me, I agreed because I love her and want her to be 100% happy. It was torture for me at first, but she made it work for me, she made it a turn-on. She said it was just sex and nothing else.

So fast forward two and a half years, and now it isn't just sex. Now she is saying that she loves him, and that she wants to explore polyamory, and that instead of just meeting up with him for sex twice a week, and then coming home to me, she now wants to stay at his place three nights a week.

I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that she says she loves someone other than me. In truth, as things stand, I am really struggling with this, and I find it all very hurtful.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to deal with the feelings I'm having?

Thanks.

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm new to the forum, so I hope this is in the right place.

Yes, you are in the right place! Welcome! Many people come here in a confused state, when polyamory kinda hits them unexpectedly, for various reasons. In your case, sexual incompatibility led to a "casual sex" scenario negotiation for your gf, which led to the kink of cuckolding, which led to your gf falling in love with her supposed "sex only" partner. This is extremely common. People often fall in love with partners to whom they are attracted enough to have sex. It's only natural.

I'll try and keep this short.

There is no need to keep it short. The more you write it out, the more it will help you work through your feelings. And the more information we get, the better advice we can give.

I have been in a relationship with my GF for nearly three years now, and she is someone that I truly love and adore. She is my best and closest friend, as well as my partner.

However, it became apparent very quickly in our relationship that we were not totally compatible in bed. At first this was something that we tried to fix ourselves, but when I could not, she got very frustrated.

You could go into more detail here. How did this incompatibility play out? Were you lacking in sexual skills? Are you still? Is is something anatomical?

She suggested the idea of her having a lover, and while this was very difficult for me, I agreed because I love her and want her to be 100% happy. It was torture for me at first, but she made it work for me; she made it a turn-on. She said it was just sex and nothing else.

So fast forward two and a half years and now it isn't just sex. Now she is saying that she loves him and that she wants to explore Poly, and that instead of just meeting up with him for sex twice a week, and then coming home to me, she now wants to stay at his place three nights a week.

I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that she says she loves someone other than me. In truth, as things stand, I am really struggling with this, and I find it all very hurtful.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to deal with the feelings I'm having?

Thanks.

I hear you are upset that your gf loves another man. Here on this board, and in the poly world in general, love is seen as a good thing. However, you and gf need to renegotiate terms around her dating. You are used to her coming home to you at night. Now she wants to spend nights over at her new bf's place. You feel hurt. What is behind that hurt?

Monogamy culture assumes saving all your romantic love for one person is "good," and having more than one love is "bad." In truth, it's very common for even monogamists to, in the course of a long life, feel they love another person besides their "official" partner. Humans are actually wired to feel attraction for more than one person in the course of their lives. It's only our culture, driven by the partriarchy and the economic system, and misogyny, that has caused us to limit our romantic love and lust to one person.

However, this doesn't actually work. That is why we have sex workers, porn, romance novels, romantic movies, obsessions with movie stars and musicians, serial monogamy, divorce, etc., etc.

That said, you and gf have work to do. You don't need to agree to a sudden change to 3 overnights a week. Maybe she could start with one overnight a week, to ease into the transition. I don't know where she got the idea it would be OK for her to suddenly start spending 3 nights a week away from you. That would be harsh.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello David1985,

Honestly, your girlfriend has been kind of unfair to you; it was already unfair to make you a cuckold, and now she wants to pile poly on top of that? She should really consider your feelings in this matter, you've done nothing wrong to deserve this. And staying at her lover's place three nights a week? That's really excessive. I wonder if she is in the throes of NRE? I'm sure she doesn't mean to hurt you, she just doesn't realize how hurtful all of this is. Perhaps the thing to do would be to sit down and have an honest talk with her. Surely there's a compromise you can arrive at, such as her staying at his place one or two nights a week. (Or even less than once a week, once every other week?) Sure your girlfriend's needs matter, but don't your needs matter too?

Here's a few links that might help:

• Are You in Poly Hell?
• How to Love a Polyamorist
• As someone who is monogamous, how can I be okay with the fact that my girlfriend is polyamorous, and how can I get over my feelings of inadequacy?
• The Struggling Mono Thread
• Mono/Non-Mono - Struggling to Accept
• Mono boyfriend having trouble coping
• "First Aid" for Jealousy
• How zigzag copes when Angel is with Wolf

These links give you thoughts and advice on how to deal with the feelings you're having. Hopefully that helps.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

I have been in a relationship with my GF for nearly three years now, and she is someone that I truly love and adore. She is my best and closest friend, as well as my partner.

Okay, she's your friend and romantic partner.

However, it became apparent very quickly in our relationship that we were not totally compatible in bed. At first this was something that we tried to fix ourselves, but when I could not, she got very frustrated. She suggested the idea of her having a lover, and while this was very difficult for me, I agreed because I love her and want her to be 100% happy.

But what do you need to be happy? I get that you didn't want to break up with her back then, but it didn't sound like you really wanted to be in an open relationship or be a cuckold. Were you subsuming yourself to the relationship?

Now she wants to change again, to polyamory, and you don't really want to be doing that either, because that's moving even further from what you actually value in relationships(?).

It would be one thing if you wanted to be doing this. It's quite another if you are only doing it to avoid a break up. So, before you take another step, I suggest some soul searching.

Apart from her, what do you want in a relationship? What makes you happy in a relationship? What kind of partner would you like to be with?
What are your personal dating standards? Once those have been clarified, reinsert her into the picture. Does she actually meet your personal standards? Does she make the cut? Or are you just bending yourself into pretzels, and making too many exceptions to avoid thinking about a breakup? And now the pretzels twists are getting harder and harder to bear?

I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that she says she loves someone other than me. In truth, as things stand, I am really struggling with this, and I find it all very hurtful.

Why are you choosing to participate in things that you find very hurtful?

You know what? If she can love more than one person, and wants polyamory, that's great for her. Nothing wrong with wanting that. But if you want to be in a monogamous arrangement, and that's what you like best? That is great for you. There is nothing wrong with wanting monogamy.

But if you are trying to make a kite fly that just won't fly together well, and one or the other of you is bending yourselves into pretzels, that's not especially kind to yourselves or to each other.

There's always some discomfort to trying new things, but if this is very hurtful to you, you could listen to your own feelings. Even if you love her, it's not being selfish to look after your own self care. It's a necessary skill.

Are you able to say this to her? "I love you a whole lot. But no, not even for you will I do stuff that hurts me."

It is possible to decide to no longer be romantic partners with her because sustaining a romance "by force" when your values are not compatible is proving to be too hard and is hurting you. Not even for her should you be hurting yourself.

You could offer to be friends, or simply part with good grace.

Then she would be free to pursue things in her life, and you would be free from this stuff that you don't seem to want in yours.

Maybe this is not what you wanted to hear, or think about. But please do not do stuff if it is very hurtful to you.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to deal with the feelings I'm having?

To me, feelings ensue after actions, including thinking behavior. If you are feeling bad because you are doing stuff that is not really you, just to keep from breaking up, that's not being true to your own values. That's subsuming yourself to the relationship. In order to start to feel better, you might have to stop doing that stuff, and align your behavior with your values.

Start saying "No, that doesn't work for me," when things don't line up, rather than just "going along" with stuff.

There is a difference between "coming to a compromise" and "compromising what you value."

Galagirl

 

[Vicki82]

Even if you're very much into cuckolding as a kink, it doesn't mean that you have to consent to things that you really don't want in a relationship. It's still OK to have your own boundaries around what is acceptable to you. Power exchange relationships still require informed consent.

I would take some time and think about what you really want, as GalaGirl suggests. You don't have to consent to this change in relationship form unless you want to be involved in a poly relationship.

 

[David1985]

Yes, you are in the right place! Welcome! Many people come here in a confused state, when polyamory kinda hits them unexpectedly, for various reasons. In your case, sexual incompatibility led to a "casual sex" scenario negotiation for your gf, which led to the kink of cuckolding, which led to your gf falling in love with her supposed "sex only" partner. This is extremely common. People often fall in love with partners to whom they are attracted enough to have sex. It's only natural.

That is pretty much what happened.

You say that "People often fall in love with partners to whom they are attracted enough to have sex. It's only natural."

This is what I was afraid of from the start. She assured me that it would not be the case because her lover was someone she had been in a sexual relationship with before, and that there were no real romantic feelings, just very good sex.

You could go into more detail here. How did this incompatibility play out? Were you lacking in sexual skills? Are you still? Is is something anatomical?

Her lover is dominant, well endowed, and can last forever, basically the total opposite of me. The real massive frustration for her was my PE. She is a very sexual person, and penetration is very important to her. It really made me feel bad that I couldn't satisfy her, and that she needed someone else, but she made it work. Sexually, I know what I am good at, and so does she, so we concentrate on that.

I hear you are upset that your gf loves another man. Here on this board, and in the poly world in general, love is seen as a good thing. However, you and gf need to renegotiate terms around her dating. You are used to her coming home to you at night. Now she wants to spend nights over at her new bf's place. You feel hurt. What is behind that hurt?

I'm jealous because, while I accepted that she needed him to satisfy her in bed, I believed that she needed me for love, affection, and kindness, and not him. I now know that he gives her everything she needs, and I'm scared that I will lose her.

That said, you and gf have work to do. You don't need to agree to a sudden change to 3 overnights a week. Maybe she could start with one overnight a week, to ease into the transition. I don't know where she got the idea it would be okay for her to suddenly start spending 3 nights a week away from you. That would be harsh.

In fairness to her, that isn't how it happened. I just wanted to keep my post as short as possible, so I apologize if it came across that way. It started with her saying that she felt she was starting to have feelings for him, and that he had told her that he loved her. Then it got to her spending one night a week with him, and then two nights, and now she is saying that she thinks that she loves him, and wants to be with him more.

 

[David1985]

Honestly, your girlfriend has been kind of unfair to you. It was already unfair to make you a cuckold, and now she wants to pile poly on top of that? She should really consider your feelings in this matter. You've done nothing wrong to deserve this. And staying at her lover's place three nights a week? That's really excessive. I wonder if she is in the throes of NRE? I'm sure she doesn't mean to hurt you. She just doesn't realize how hurtful all of this is. Perhaps the thing to do would be to sit down and have an honest talk with her. Surely there's a compromise you can arrive at, such as her staying at his place one or two nights a week. (Or even less than once a week, once every other week?) Sure, your girlfriend's needs matter, but don't your needs matter too?

I do think that she is being a little unfair, but you are right when you say that she doesn't mean to hurt me. She is a caring positive person. However, her positivity means that she always thinks she can make everything work, and she often does.

I don't think NRE has anything to do with it because she has been with her lover for two years while with me, and had been with him and broke it off a few years before we met.

We are able to sit down and chat very openly, but as I said, she is one of those people that thinks she can make everything ok.

 

[David1985]

She's your friend and romantic partner.

She is my best friend. We have a lot in common. We like doing things together. We get on very well, and very rarely argue. We just love being together. I love her so much.

But what do you need to be happy? I get that you didn't want to break up with her back then, but it didn't sound like you really wanted to be in an open relationship, or a cuckold. Were you subsuming yourself to the relationship?

And now she wants to change again, to polyamory. You don't want to be doing that either, because that's moving even further from what you actually value in relationships.

I did not want her to have a lover, but she explained cuckolding to me and promised that she would make it work for me. I am very submissive to her, but I was very jealous at first. What man wants to be told that the woman he loves needs another man to satisfy her sexually? However, she did make it work. Both of us know that the cuckold thing was 110% right for us, and we both enjoy it a lot. It meant that she was getting what she needed, and this took the pressure off of our sexual relationship and made it so much better. She also included me in things with her lover, and she is very good at turning me on in that why. She told me to trust her, and I did, and she was right.

Now she is telling me to trust her again, but it feels different.

It would be one thing if you wanted to be doing this. It's quite another if you are only doing it to avoid a breakup. So before you take another step, I suggest some soul searching. Apart from her, what do you want in a relationship? What makes you happy in a relationship? What kind of partner would you like to be with?

I want to be with her, because she makes me so happy-- but the way it was. Breaking up is the last resort for me, but it has crossed my mind and I have told her this. She was very upset. But I don't want to share her in the way she wants me to share her. I want to trust her like I did before with the cuckold thing. I'm really not certain that polyamory can work for us.

The relationship we have now is private. What she wants would not be.
How do we explain it to our family and friends?
What if she gets pregnant? It would almost certainly be his. What then?
What if three nights become four, and then five?
I could not stand to lose her in that way.

It all seems so hard. Do people really make it work?

Why are you choosing to participate in things that you find very hurtful?

If you want to be in a monogamous arrangement, and that's what you like best, that is great for you. There is nothing wrong with wanting monogamy.

There's always some discomfort in trying new things, but if this is very hurtful to you, you could listen to your own feelings. Even if you love her, it's is not being selfish to look after your own self care. It's a necessary skill.

You could offer to be friends. Or simply part with good grace.

Things are hurtful at the moment, and I cannot hide that from her, and she does not want me to. She is doing her best to comfort and reassure me. She is being her usual loving self. I'm hoping that she is right and that it can work.

I guess that is why I came here-- to see if people can make what we have work.

I could not just be friends with her. If we were to split, I don't think I could bear to see her again.

 

[David1985]

Even if you're very much into cuckolding as a kink, it doesn't mean that you have to consent to things that you really don't want in a relationship. It's still OK to have your own boundaries around what is acceptable to you. Power exchange relationships still require informed consent.

We are both very much into cuckolding as a kink. I know a lot of my friends would be freaked out by what we do, and say I wasn't a real man. That did bother me at the start, but I don't care now. I know it's right for us as a couple. It helps that her lover and I have become friends and get on well.

Can polyamory work out for us in the same way, though?

 

[fuchka]

David, it might be helpful to consider this as two separate questions.
1) Are you willing to try poly?
2) Would you be able to make it work?

If you are not willing to try, what happens then? Would you have to split up, or would your girlfriend (I'm going to call her "Lena") accept the status quo?

If you are willing to try, what things would you want to discuss upfront, and negotiate agreements about? You could explore it in stages, if Lena is willing to take it slowly. First talking it through (people can spend months on this!), then trying it out, taking it a step at a time. Not straight to three nights a week. Maybe one overnight and then you see how you feel. Process it together, reconnect. A piece of advice I've heard is "move at the pace of the slowest person."

I get the impression that Lena is very strong-minded in what she wants, and may not be the kind of person to compromise. I sense that, at any given stage, you will ultimately need to accept whatever she is offering, or decide to break up. Is this true? I wouldn't feel good in a relationship like that. Like I'm clipped into a theme park ride and my only options are stay on for whatever comes next, or push the emergency button. But you might choose to stick with this, until you can no longer stomach it (or, you find out you are okay with it after all!)

If I'm wrong in the above, then you could seek to negotiate an opening up that was slower than zero overnights to three per week. You could spend time talking about how this would affect your public life, and any other concerns you have. E.g., would the cuckold dynamic continue? How would you be supported in voicing your needs?

Being submissive doesn't mean having to silently accept whatever scenario is presented to you.

The other aspect to consider is Lena's lover. (I'll call him Grant.) Once you open up to a poly relationship, the old relationship is gone. Lena and Grant will have their own trajectory, and while you can request to go slow, it's unlikely that a "veto" will work (i.e., where their relationship depends on you being okay with it). However, if Grant is on board with trying out a dating relationship with Lena, but returning to a casual/cuckold setup if it doesn't work, that could be achievable.

If both Lena and Grant want an intimate relationship, though, and if Lena will choose that no matter what you feel about it, you are forced to decide between trying this, or breaking up.

The second question (can you make it work?) is difficult to answer in advance. How good is your communication with Lena? How well are you both able to voice your needs, and hear each other? Are you each able to suggest compromises or helpful actions?

When people open up a relationship, they sometimes experience this:
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell

If you've had that experience, how confident are you that you could talk with Lena about this, and be validated (not dismissed)? How does she generally respond to you when you voice your feelings?

Some people who are asked to open up to poly are not hopeful it will work out, but decide to try anyway just so they know they "tried everything" to make a relationship work. Others might see the writing on the wall, and quit without having to go through the foreseeable pain.

The only certainty is that opening up is a one-way street. You can't go back, only forward.

If you are happy with what you currently have, you can certainly ask for no change. This is all you are comfortable with, for now. Lena might accept that, or she might not.

You don't have to compromise. But if you do compromise, and Lena is not willing to (e.g., not willing to spend some time exploring the idea by talking only, first), then it doesn't bode well for you navigating poly together.

 

[GalaGirl]

Now she is telling me to trust her again, but it feels different.

Yes, it's different. You may have been willing to enter a polysexual relationship, where sex is shared with other people, so you could enjoy the cuckold thing.

You aren't sounding excited about entering a polyamorous relationship, where love is shared with other people. It sounds like you want to be your partner's only romantic partner. If this is a core value for you, and not something you want to change, she may no longer be compatible as your romantic partner.

You don't have to go along with new stuff just because she said so. If she wants to change the relationship model and start sharing herself in a way that you don't want to participate in, then you can to decide to bow out. You can say, "Sorry, this is not for me."

I do not think people "make it work," by doing things by force. What they want from relationships either lines up or it doesn't. And if some small things have to be compromised on, like 2 nights vs 3, okay. Her having some extra sex wouldn't go against your core value of you being the only sweetie. You might be okay with that compromise because your core value is honored.

But it sounds like you want monoamory, where you and she are each other's only sweeties. Monoamorous and polysexual was fine. You liked her sharing sex with another, for the cuck kink, because you two remained each other's only sweeties. But now she wants another romantic partner. Love is involved. It sounds like you do not want to participate in this new dating offer. She is asking you to abandon something you value a lot. That's what I'm talking about. There's a difference between a small compromise and you compromising your core values.

If that is happening, then I think all you can do is say, "No, thank you. I prefer it to stay how it is. If you want to change the relationship model to you having another sweety, then I will have to bow out. That is not the model for me. Then you can be free to pursue having as many sweeties you would like with people who want that model too. I can be free from models I do not want.'

I'm hoping that she is right and that it can work. I guess that is why I came here-- to see if people can make what we have work.

I think the only ones who can actually answer that is the people in the actual situation. That means you and she figuring out if this new arrangement is something you all want to joyfully consent to and participate in. You do not sound joyful.

Just because some other couple somewhere can thrive in that arrangement does not automatically mean you can thrive in it. And if you are thinking about going along with it so as not to break up, well, do you want to actually thrive in your relationship, or merely endure or survive it?

I could not just be friends with her. If we were to split, I don't think I could bear to see her again.

Then it could be that way, an amicable split and just being exes, not trying to be exes and friends.

I get that it hurts. I am very sorry. But if you are faced with two stinky choices you have to pick the one that stinks least:
1. Bending into more pretzels, and the hurting continuing indefinitely, or
2. Breaking up, hurting for a while, and then letting time heal you, so the overall hurting can stop.

You have to "pick your hard."

Galagirl

 

[dingedheart]

I did not want her to have a lover, but she explained cuckolding to me, and promised that she would make it work for me. I am very submissive to her, but I was very jealous at first. What man wants to be told that the woman he loves needs another man to satisfy her sexually? However, she did make it work, and both of us know that the cuckold thing was 110% right for us, and we both enjoy it a lot. It meant that she was getting what she needed, and this took the pressure off of our sexual relationship and made it so much better. She also included me in things with her lover. She is very good at turning me on in that way. She told me to trust her, and I did, and she was right.

Now she is telling me to trust her again, but it feels different.

How long did it take you to adjust to the cuckolding-- several days, weeks or months?

Why does it feel different this time? What feels different? Has she done something to make you not trust her?

The relationship we have now is private. What she wants would not be. How do we explain it to our family and friends? What if she gets pregnant? It would almost certainly be his. What then? What if three nights become four and then five? I could not stand to lose her in that way.

It all seems so hard. Do people really make it work?

It sounds to me like she has had most of this stuff figured out. What is her plan for telling family and friends? Hasn't the risk of pregnancy from this or another guy been there since they started having sex? Why haven’t you had this "what if" conversation already?

“What if 3 nights becomes 4, and then 5?" To me, this sounds like you feel the goal post is always moving, always going to move. As soon as you get comfortable, boom! something new. Outside of the current request, does she have a history of doing this to you?

In this context, her getting pregnant might not be exactly accidental or unplanned. You just might not be cut in on the new plan.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi David,

I'm sorry to say that some of your posts got delayed, due to being in moderated mode (which happens to all newbies). I will respond as best I can to some of the points made in your newly-accepted posts.

Re (from David1985):

"You say that 'People often fall in love with partners to whom they are attracted enough to have sex. It's only natural.'
This is what I was afraid of from the start. She assured me that it would not be the case because her lover was someone she had been in a sexual relationship with before, and that there were no real romantic feelings, just very good sex."

In other words, you trusted her against your better judgment, and now you see that your misgivings were justified. And now, she wants you to trust her again. Against your better judgment. "Come on, go ahead and trust me to be poly, even though you sense that there is disaster down the road." Have you ever thought that maybe now is the time to trust your instincts? You trusted her not to develop feelings for this other guy, even though you knew better then. You probably don't want to make that mistake twice.

Re:

"I'm jealous because while I accepted that she needed him to satisfy her in bed, I believed that she needed me for love, affection, and kindness, and not him. I now know that he gives her everything she needs and I'm scared that I will lose her."

This, I think, is the core of the problem. You accepted this other man coming into the picture on the basis that, he would provide her with the sex she wanted, while you would provide her with the romantic/emotional benefits. That means he would provide her with one thing, while you would provide her with the one other thing. There would be a balance in how much each man provided for her. Now, you are faced with a situation in which the other man provides her with *two* things -- sex and romance -- while you only provide her with *one* thing -- romance. In that situation, why would she bother to keep you around? She has everything she needs, with him.

So I don't think you are trying to decide whether to break up with her. Rather, you are concerned that *she* is going to break up with *you.* That you are going to be unable to compete with this other man. So, you want to tell her to not get polyamorously involved with him, in order to protect your ability to provide her with something that she needs. If you lose that ability, you will lose her. At least, that is how you see the situation. Do I have the right idea?

Re:

"It started with her saying that she felt she was starting to have feelings for him and that he had told her that he loved her. Then he got around to her spending one night a week with him, and then two nights, and now she is saying that she thinks that she loves him, and wants to be with him more."

So, she is already up to spending two nights a week with him. She is just trying to escalate that to *one more night* per week. By itself, this probably isn't such a big problem. The problem is, how it symbolizes how she is beginning to get her emotional needs met by him (and thus maybe won't need you to meet those -- or any -- needs).

Re (from David1985):

"We are able to sit down and chat very openly, but as I said ... she is one of those people that thinks she can make everything okay."

And she has always been able to make everything okay in the past? and now you want to trust her to do it again? but you have strong misgivings this time? She told you not to worry, this relationship with this other man would be purely sexual, and you did worry but you trusted her anyway, and sure enough, her relationship with this other man became something more than sexual?

Re (from David1985):

"I did not want her to have a lover, but she explained cuckolding to me and promised that she would make it work for me. I am very submissive to her, but I was very jealous at first because what man wants to be told that the woman he loves needs another man to satisfy her sexually. However, she did make it work, and both of us know that the cuckold thing was 110% right for us, and we *both* enjoy it a lot. It meant that she was getting what she needed and this took the pressure off of our sexual relationship and made it so much better. She also included me in things with her lover and she is very good at turning me on in that way. She told me to trust her and I did, and she was right.
Now she is telling me to trust her again, but it feels different."

So cuckolding, as it turns out, isn't a problem at all for you. You trusted her on that point, and things turned out okay. So why are you feeling reluctant to trust her now?

I suspect it is because she assured you that she would not get emotionally involved with the other man -- and yet she did get emotionally involved with him. Which is a BFD, because now she can get *all* of her needs met with him. She no longer needs you. At least, that is how you see it. That is how you experienced it. I think that's a pretty good reason for things to feel different this time. You probably have a sense like things are starting to spin out of control.

Re:

"The relationship we have now is private. What she wants would not be. How do we explain it to our family and friends? What if she gets pregnant? It would almost certainly be his. What then? What if three nights become four and then five? I could not stand to lose her in that way.
It all seems so hard. Do people really make it work?"

Your first concern seems to be that if you accepted poly with her and this other man, you would be forced to out yourselves as polyamorous. This is a huge concern by itself. Included in it is that you would have to admit to your friends and family that she was pregnant with his child. You are wondering what your friends and family would think of you.

There is a lot to unpack in the above paragraph. First, have you discussed the possibility of her bearing this other man's child? She's already having sex with him, right? Is it protected sex? Do they use condoms? Does she use birth control? If she became emotionally involved with him -- and she already is -- would/does that mean no more condoms, no more birth control? What has she said about that?

Next there is the huge question of whether to out yourselves to the world. First, would you really have to? and if so -- why? Somehow it seems that her emotional involvement with this other man automatically means that she would have to out herself, and perhaps you don't know this, but lots of poly people (myself included) are mostly or completely in the closet about it. It can be done. Is there some reason that it can't be done in your situation?

If you do find yourself in a situation where you have to out yourselves to your friends and family, you might want to watch a video on the subject ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ-8ocmtb_8

Outside questions of outing yourselves, there is the question of what you would do if she got pregnant with his child. Once born, I assume the child would have to live in your home so that she could nurse the child. Would the other man move in to live with you in order to be a father to the child? or would you treat the situation as if *you* were the father? If she is going to have unprotected sex with him, she (perhaps you and she) need to have a discussion about that with him. But again, who says polyamory means unprotected sex? She could still use condoms -- and birth control -- with him. Unless the three of you decide otherwise.

That's very complicated, and you will have to figure it out a little at a time. Assuming you even decide to go along with this polyamory thing.

What if three nights become four and then five? Don't you have a say in that matter? Do you always have to go along with her propositions? Would four and then five nights be fair? Then you would be getting three and then two nights. Perhaps you feel that you'd have to go along with that because he provides her with two things (sex and romance), while you only provide her with one thing (romance)? Obviously that's kind of simplifying things. You still provide her with sex, it's just a different kind of sex. And your romance is different from his romance. You are a unique individual. You bring things to the table that the other man couldn't provide. Maybe your girlfriend needs *both* men. Is that possible?

Do people really make it work? They do. This forum is filled with examples of people making polyamory work. First there is the Life stories and blogs board. Where you can find my blog/life story, for one example of making poly work. Also we have Poly Vignettes: Sharing Success & Happiness. It can work, it really can. The question is, can poly work for *you?* Is poly right for you? You have to figure that out for yourself.

I do think the most important thing here is, will *she* break up with *you?* and if she will, is there any way of stopping that at this point? If you say no to poly, will she accept that?

Sincere regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

Okay, so you have premature ejaculation and haven't been able to learn to increase your stamina in fucking. You say you worked on it, but it was unsuccessful. One wonders what you tried. Or maybe you could have gotten some help from her. There are many techniques to try.

Anyway, we all know that PiV is not the only way to be sexually satisfied, for men, women or other-gendered people. And you do have sexual skills. You're just lacking in stamina when fucking. And Lena really really wants that.

I wonder if you ever used dildos on her. If your arms are good and strong, they work well. You could even use a strap on. Or a penis extender that reduces sensation. You could have seen a doctor, etc.

Lena took up with Grant, her old bf. She broke up with him once, but somehow this time, things are working out better. Was it because he didn't have the pressure right away to be a "real bf?" He was just her "bull," as they say.

But somehow, along the way, he did become a "real bf." Lena and Grant did not follow the protocol that keeps things on a casual-sex basis, i.e., techniques such as avoiding eye contact, avoiding non-sexual cuddling, getting up and out of bed as soon as sufficient sexual satisfaction was achieved, getting dressed and parting ways. No hand holding, no dating, no texting except to set up dates, or maybe do some sexting as foreplay.

No. They spent more time together. They even hung out with you in the mix. You are romantic with Lena. Maybe that romance rubbed off on Grant. Things are already sounding pretty "kitchen-table poly" to me. You seem to be including threeway sex, which is actually unusual in polyamory.

It sounds to me like a D/s cuckolding situation has gone well on the way to polyamory already. And Lena is still loving you, still having sex with you, still living with you. And your friends don't know (right?), even though she's been spending two nights a week at Grant's for some time now.

But somehow, just labeling it polyamory, and requesting one more night a week at Grant's place, has got you worried that this is the time you "need" to tell friends and family about Lena's OSO, to worry suddenly about pregnancy, when she's already dated him in the past and not gotten pregnant, dated you for years and not gotten pregnant, had sex with (dated) Grant again for two years, and still not gotten pregnant!

In D/s, as in polyamory, everyone's needs, desires and preferences matter. Just because you have a problem with premature ejaculation does not mean you must let these two more forceful personalities call all the shots and arrange your life entirely for you. Subs' needs matter too.

You do not need to just agree to a third night per week away from you.

My live-in partner has been with me 11 years. She's also been with her OSO for six years. She generally spends two nights per week at his place, and five nights per week at my/our place. Sometimes she spends a third night with him, but not usually. This is what works for us. I know he'd be happy if she spent a third night, but she has decided two is enough (at least for now). She usually goes to his place on Saturday afternoon and comes home Monday morning.

This was a gradual increase, over the years, from one date every two weeks, to one overnight a week, to two overnights a week.

I know she loves both of us for what we uniquely offer, loves having both of us in her life, and would be devastated to lose either of us. She tells me this a lot. She reassures me, respects me, encourages me, takes care of me when I have health issues or other stresses, gives me quality time, sex, cuddles, compliments, gifts of service and actual gifts, and verbal "I love you's..." I feel very secure.

On the other hand, until just recently, I have almost always had a bf of my own too. But that's besides the point, in our case. It might be an option for you, however, should you want that.

You have power here, and rights. It doesn't have to keep snowballing until she leaves you entirely. You could believe her when she says to you and shows you that she loves having you in her life.

I do think she acted out of ignorance in thinking that she could keep a relationship with an old bf strictly sexual. But they did break up once. Why are they getting along better now?

 

[fuchka]

Ah, I didn't read carefully enough and missed the fact that she's already sleeping over two nights a week at his place. Yeah, this has definitely progressed to de facto polyamory already, even though you hadn't explicitly talked about it until more recently. Good luck!

 

[Vicki82]

I think what I would wonder the most is if Lena would be polyamorous without the cuckolding thing. I mean, would she choose to be in that type of relationship as a free choice, if she were starting over again, or would she want a mono one?

To me, that would be the key. If she is the kind of person who genuinely wants to be in multiple relationships of various sorts, I think that polyamory could work out very well, if David also wants this. If Lena is an AND not an OR person. I think if at the core she is a serial monogamist, then David's fear of being displaced is more likely to be an issue.

I agree with Magdlyn's suggestions for potentially improving your sex life, as well. Penetration is fun, but sex can be about so much more than that. The extender sleeves are great, and since PE is the issue, you can buy one that fully covers your penis so that you won't cum from it. We have a few different toys for this sort of thing when we do denial play. Or you can buy a fucking machine and then while using it, you can do other things to please her.

I also think that given your cuckolding dynamic, you might feel like you have to agree to what Lena wants. Remember that even D/s power-exchange relationships still have to have consent from both partners. If this really isn't something you want, you don't have to give in just because she wants it. If this isn't something you'd choose, you have to consider your long-term happiness if you compromise on something that matters so much to you. The best partner in the world isn't really the best partner if they want something fundamentally different.

 

[LBeyond]

The only certainty is that opening up is a one-way street. You can't go back, only forward.

If you are happy with what you currently have, you can certainly ask for no change. This is all you are comfortable with, for now. Lena might accept that, or she might not.

You don't have to compromise. But if you do compromise, and Lena is not willing to (e.g., not willing to spend some time exploring the idea by talking only, first), then it doesn't bode well for you navigating poly together.

I don't have a lot I can add to this topic, but I can say that after my failed attempt at poly with my wife, two years later we're still struggling with the pain and chaos it threw into our relationship. I found out afterwards that there were several times my wife lied about how she felt in order to make me feel happier, until she couldn't anymore, and we broke everything off. People were hurt, and after two years I'm still concerned the memories will be too much for her to cope with.

Do not give in to uncomfortable pressure, and do not be afraid to voice your feelings.

 

[kdt26417]

Good points LBeyond, I think you had to learn the hard way, kind of from Lena's point of view. Mono/poly relationships are very challenging at best, and at worst, they can cause worlds of pain. Pain that can last and last, sometimes for life.

 

[David1985]

David, it might be helpful to consider this as two separate questions. 1. Are you willing to try polyamory? 2. Would you be able to make it work?

I'm not sure if I'm willing to try polyamory, although in reality we have been trying it out for the last few months. I'm not 100%, not by a long way.

If you are not willing to try, what happens then? Would you have to split up, or would your girlfriend (I'm going to call her "Lena") accept the status quo?

Again, I'm not sure. I know she loves me very much, and she needs me for no other reason than that, and the fact that I return that love. We do a lot together, and like each other's company. It would be tough to break up. I would miss her so much. She isn't the pushy spoilt type, but is used to getting her own way in life.

If you are willing to try, what things would you want to discuss upfront and negotiate agreements about? You could explore it in stages, if Lena is willing to take it slowly, girst talking it through (people can spend months on this!), then trying it out, taking it a step at a time. Not straight to three nights a week. Maybe one overnight and then you see how you feel. Process it together, reconnect. A piece of advice I've heard is "move at the pace of the slowest person."

Well, she's already pushed it onto me, because she is with him two nights a week. She has told me she loves him. When the three of us were together before, she would only ever kiss ME, or hug ME, or hold MY hand, or go to sleep with ME, or be romantic with ME, or go out for the night with ME. Now she does all that with HIM as well. She knows I don't like it, but she loves him and he loves her. She still does more with me, but before, all they did was fuck. I guess some might find it strange that seeing them hold hands hurts me a lot, but watching him fuck her in a way I never could does not. I'm being selfish, but cannot help the way I feel.

I get the impression that Lena is very strong-minded in what she wants, and may not be the kind of person to compromise. I sense that, at any given stage, you will ultimately need to accept whatever she is offering, or decide to break up. Is this true? I wouldn't feel good in a relationship like that, like I'm clipped into a theme park ride and my only options are stay on for whatever comes next, or push the emergency button. But you might choose to stick with this, until you can no longer stomach it, or you find out you are okay with it, after all.

She is very strong-minded (She is a lawyer. ) She can compromise at times, but that tends to be when she knows that she is 110% in the wrong. She isn't nasty or in any way a bully, but she is very very persuasive. I am very laid back, until I'm not, and when I'm not, I can be very decisive.

If I'm wrong in the above, then you could seek to negotiate an opening up that was slower than zero overnights to three per week. You could spend time to talk about how this would affect your public life, and any other concerns you have-- e.g., would the cuckold dynamic continue? How would you be supported in voicing your needs?

The cuckold thing is something that is still really good for all three of us and I can't see that stopping, as long as we stay as we are now, it will stop if we do not.

Her going public with the poly thing is a huge stumbling block for me. In truth, I can't picture that being in any way okay with me.

Being submissive doesn't mean having to silently accept whatever scenario is presented to you.

Being sexually very submissive, and laid back in day-to-day life does not mean I'll go along with whatever she wants. I really won't. But I am uncertain as to how things are at the moment.

The other aspect to consider is Lena's lover. (I'll call him Grant.) Once you open up to a poly relationship, the old relationship is gone. Lena and Grant will have their own trajectory, and while you can request to go slow, it's unlikely that a "veto" will work (i.e., where their relationship depends on you being ok with it). However, if Grant is on board with trying out a dating relationship with Lena, but returning to a casual/cuckold setup if it doesn't work, that could be achievable.

Grant and I get on well and are friends. He knows how I feel, and I know how he feels. He loves her. When it comes to sex, he is very dominant with her, and I'm submissive. But other than that, we are of similar temperament. That's a good thing I guess. But no, I can't see him going back to just being her bull. It can go three ways... Either I continue to give poly a go, and we stay as we are, or Lena has to choose.

If both Lena and Grant want an intimate relationship, though, and if Lena will choose that no matter what you feel about it, you are forced to decide between trying this, or breaking up.

That's it, and I know that now.

The second question (can you make it work?) is difficult to answer in advance. How good is your communication with Lena? How well are you both able to voice your needs, and hear each other? Are you each able to suggest compromises or helpful actions?

Communication is very good in general, but she is avoiding certain questions at the moment.

If you had that experience, how confident are you that you could talk with Lena about this, and be validated (not dismissed)? How does she generally respond to you when you voice your feelings?

She is a lovely person, and she would never dismiss anyone, but she thinks that she is always in the right, or that she can make things right. In fairness, she usually is, and she usually can.

Some people who are asked to open up to poly are not hopeful it will work out, but decide to try anyway just so they know they "tried everything" to make a relationship work. Others might see the writing on the wall, and quit without having to go through the foreseeable pain.

Right now I am seeing the writing on the wall.

The only certainty is that opening up is a one-way street. You can't go back, only forward. You don't have to compromise. But if you do compromise, and Lena is not willing to (e.g., not willing to spend some time exploring the idea by talking only first), then it doesn't bode well for you navigating poly together.

I agree, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[David1985]

Yes, different. You may have been willing to enter a polysexual relationship where sex is shared with other people so you could enjoy the cuck thing.

Well, at first it was because I wanted her to be totally happy, and she was not. That was because of the sex, and she was very honest about that, in a caring way. So when she started to talk about having a lover, I went along with it. It was not easy to accept at first, but it did not take long for me to realise that it was perfect for us. That was helped a lot by the fact that she made it a huge turn-on for me.

You don't sound excited about entering a polyamorous relationship, where love is shared with other people. It sounds like you want to be your romantic partner's only sweetie. If this is a core value for you, and not something you want to change, she may no longer be compatible as your romantic partner if she wants more than one romantic partner.

Well, this has already changed, but now she wants to confirm that change, and go even further.

You don't have to go along with new stuff just because she says so. If she wants to change the relationship model and start sharing herself in a way that you don't want to participate in, then you can to decide to bow out. You can say, "Sorry, this is not for me."

I can, and I might, but I will find it tough.

I do not think people "make it work" by doing things by force. What they want from a relationship either lines up or it doesn't. And if some small things have to compromised on, like two nights vs three, okay. Her having some extra sex wouldn't go against your core value of you being the only sweetie. You might be okay with that compromise because your core value remains.

The thing is, she has always had as much sex with him as she likes. Sure, they would meet up at his place twice a week, and that is what we agreed at the start, but after a while he would come around to us, and they would fuck at ours, as well. I was fine with that. More than fine.

But it sounds like you want a monoamorous thing, where you and she are each other's only sweeties. Monoamorous and polysexual was fine– sharing sex with others for the cuck kink, because you two remained each other's only sweeties. But now she wants another sweetie. It sounds like you don'y want to participate in this new dating offer. She is asking you to abandon a core value.

That is correct. But I'm not certain if I should accept the poly thing, now that I know it is here to stay.

An amicable split, and just being exes, not trying to be friends.

Even the thought of this hurts. I could not be friends with her. That would kill me. I would not see her again.