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crashandburn1980

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Hello new community,

My wife approached me about a month ago to give the poly life a try. I have done a major amount of research and with many discussions I have agreed. We decided to be in a communication relationship with a couple and quickly found out that they were both very dishonest. My wife was very upset, to say the least. It has been a few weeks and with more communication and firm boundaries set we have decided on what we are looking for.

We are looking for a long-term bisexual female to share our love and life with. We are looking for more than just the typical sexual relationship that I read about. My beautiful wife is bi and is an emotional lover. I am a straight male. We have amazing communication.

Again, we are looking to share our lives with another woman, not have a random person in our lives for our benefit. The idea is that all persons will benefit from the relationship. All individuals will contribute to the relationship and if things were to progress to a live-in situation we would want to share everything.

Is this a real ask? Is this something that could be real?

Thank you for reading. Any advice is welcome. As I said, we are brand new and have not even had an in-person interaction yet.
 
MF couples seeking a bi woman for a third is common to seek but a challenge to find. This is often referred to as hunting unicorns. There are some great threads on this site though with tips on unicorn hunting.

As someone who has been a unicorn in the past and enjoys being w couples, I have encountered so many truly skeezy situations with men wanting to live out their fantasy pushing their woman into something she was clearly not comfortable with, disregarding my boundaries (like clearly identifying when I was looking for friendship only), invading and being disrespectful of women’s space. I’ve signed up on mailing lists of bisexual women only to have a man respond to me email saying that he had been reading his wife’s women-only email list and thought I was hot and wanted a threesome… as if violating my boundaries, his wife’s email and the email list rules was a good way to make a first impression… ugh…

I say this mainly to make you aware that bi women often get utterly besieged by some truly offensive requests to join in with MF couples and people who have been outright disrespectful when we have said no. So bi women who are interested in such an arrangement usually have a lot of red flags they are looking for.

The times I have joined a couple, they were people I already knew and the mutual interests, friendship and overall chemistry with them both came before the love and sexual involvement. I already had an understanding of the communication skills and relationship skills they had as well as knowing risky lifestyle choices or lack thereof.

As part of a couple, my best success at finding women that were interested in being with us both was with me getting involved with a woman I met irl, not pressuring her to do anything w male partner but if she seemed interested in him, making it clear she is welcome to him. (Having been on the opposite end where I was mutually attracted to a beautiful woman only to find that she was only allowed to pursue her attractions as a package deal with a man I had zero chemistry with, I won’t do that to anyone else). It tends to relieve a lot of fears on her part when she can see that rather than getting jealous if she is with him that I enjoy sharing. Having the woman in the couple do the approach or be involved in the approach makes it easier for the potential third person to get a feel for if the woman is truly interested & comfortable with the idea or if she’s uncomfortable and getting pressured.
 
Midnight_Shaman said:
MF couples seeking a bi woman for a third is common to seek but a challenge to find. This is often referred to as hunting unicorns. There are some great threads on this site though with tips on unicorn hunting.

As someone who has been a unicorn in the past and enjoys being w couples, I have encountered so many truly skeezy situations with men wanting to live out their fantasy pushing their woman into something she was clearly not comfortable with, disregarding my boundaries (like clearly identifying when I was looking for friendship only), invading and being disrespectful of women’s space. I’ve signed up on mailing lists of bisexual women only to have a man respond to me email saying that he had been reading his wife’s women-only email list and thought I was hot and wanted a threesome… as if violating my boundaries, his wife’s email and the email list rules was a good way to make a first impression… ugh…

I say this mainly to make you aware that bi women often get utterly besieged by some truly offensive requests to join in with MF couples and people who have been outright disrespectful when we have said no. So bi women who are interested in such an arrangement usually have a lot of red flags they are looking for.

The times I have joined a couple, they were people I already knew and the mutual interests, friendship and overall chemistry with them both came before the love and sexual involvement. I already had an understanding of the communication skills and relationship skills they had as well as knowing risky lifestyle choices or lack thereof.

As part of a couple, my best success at finding women that were interested in being with us both was with me getting involved with a woman I met irl, not pressuring her to do anything w male partner but if she seemed interested in him, making it clear she is welcome to him. (Having been on the opposite end where I was mutually attracted to a beautiful woman only to find that she was only allowed to pursue her attractions as a package deal with a man I had zero chemistry with, I won’t do that to anyone else). It tends to relieve a lot of fears on her part when she can see that rather than getting jealous if she is with him that I enjoy sharing. Having the woman in the couple do the approach or be involved in the approach makes it easier for the potential third person to get a feel for if the woman is truly interested & comfortable with the idea or if she’s uncomfortable and getting pressured.
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Thank you for the reply. We truly appreciate your support and feedback.
 
Greetings crashandburn1980,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

An M/F (H/W) couple -- straight male (husband), bi female (wife), seeking a bi female (unicorn) to join/complete them in an M/F + F triad ... is pretty darn common, what is not so common is the couple being willing to respect the added female as an equal and independent woman, who has full and equal say in how the triad is conducted. It also helps if the M/F couple doesn't insist on a certain relationship model, for instance they are okay with her dating outside the triad, and they are okay with her having children (and an ex). Things like that. Hopefully Polyamory.com has helped you so far, and will continue to help you in your poly journey. Welcome!

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
Welcome.

Jumping into poly dating a month after she brought it up seems fast. Your first experience turned up some dishonest people. You have an opportunity to pause and think about your approach and do more reading before trying again.

Have you had enough discussion? Off the top of my head...
  • Since your wife is bi, are you prepared for her to date both men and women? Can any gender date any gender they are attracted to?
  • Since she's bi, and people have the "hot bi babe to come join us" thing, what if your wife gets approached by a couple who is only interested in her, and NOT you? Are you prepared for her to go off and be in a triad with other people?
  • Does it HAVE to be a triad? Can you and Wife date separately, each one of you finding your own partner/partners?
  • You know group sex is NOT a requirement in polyamory, right? It is a thing of its own. Is that the main motivator here, wanting a threesome?
  • What if "Lady" doesn't want to date one of you? Can it be a poly V?
  • What if it starts out as a triad and one side breaks up: you and Lady end, or, Wife and Lady end, or, you and Wife end? Can it be a poly V, or is the expectation that it will all end for everyone?
  • Do you have enough friends/family, or a counselor who know about this, a support network, someone you can talk to (if there are problems or things go wrong) who is NOT wife or Lady, or would you be very isolated?
  • Have you and Wife talked about what would happen if you and she ended, how that would go?
  • What if Lady wants to date outside of you and Wife? What if you want to date others? How about Wife?
  • What about accidental pregnancies? How will that be managed?
  • What if Lady does NOT want a live-in situation, does NOT want to share everything?
  • Have you read https://www.unicorns-r-us.com/ ?
  • How about https://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell ?
Just because a triad is sometimes the easiest to imagine: "Just like us, but with three!" doesn't mean it's the easiest model to execute. It is basically three Vs stacked up together.

How would you feel vying with Wife for Lady's attention? Gonna be kinda weird, being jealous of your own wife, right? And that's just for starters.

I'm not going to say it is impossible. But it is rare.

You might consider each one dating their own person, not trying to date the same Lady. Also, watch out for people who are really only interested in ONE of you, but think they have to date the other one just to gain access to the one they really want to date. Dating separately would skip that heartache.

Galagirl
 
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1. No, we are only looking for a woman to share. Wife has made this clear. Neither of us are interested in dating outside.
2. She is not interested in anything outside our home.
3. Yes, it has to be a triad. This is all we are interested in. She has stated we enjoy each other’s company and just want to add to it.
4. Yes, I have done a good amount of reading. We do not want to have sex with random people. We want to add.
5. I would be very isolated.
6. No.
7. It would all end for everyone.
8. Wife and I have excellent communication and we ensure we are comfortable first and foremost. We do not foresee us ending ever.
9. The expectation is we would have a new relationship as one, as a triad.
10. I apologize. I chuckled at this question, but it is understandable. I am completely fixed. Wife has zero way of getting pregnant.
11. If that is the case, we'd respect their wishes. I think it would depend on the current situation and feelings. But initially that is not what we are interested in.

Thank you for these questions. We went through many of them, but there were a few we had not thought about.
 
A few more questions for you to work through together:

a) you've used 1980 in your username. If this indicates your age, give or take, and you are looking for someone age compatible who doesn't want more children, since you have had the snip, are you limiting yourself to empty-nesters or childfree women? Or would you welcome her children into your family, too?
b) how would you ensure that your new partner had their property rights protected? Do you anticipate that they will sell their home to move in with you? If, instead, she is currently a renter and you move her (and her children) in for a "rental" payment from them regularly, how will you all ensure that she has a chance to build wealth? Or are you renters and could use an extra income from another renter? Or if she has the bigger home already will you move in with her? How far are you willing to relocate?
c) how do you see yourselves fitting into her life - her own rich tapestry of family, dependents, friends, work, hobbies, routines? Couples are often very good at thinking about how someone would fit into their lives, there is a tendency to overlook how you can fit into hers.
d) can you be honest with the people in your life that you have chosen polyamory, or would she be a "family friend"? Do you have potentially judgemental workplaces? Family?
e) Since you are already imagining living together, how would the allocation of bedrooms work? Will it always be "yours" and "hers" thus maintaining couple's privilege indefinitely. Or would you have a bed for three but personal office/hobby spaces?
f) Life insurance? Taxes? Her legal status will always officially be single since you are already a married couple, so how will you address the unfair legal advantage you have as a couple?
 
Glad it helps you some.

Thank you for more info. However, some if it is not super clear. How will you explain what you seek to Lady?
  • Do you want a regular FWB who will share group sex with you and Wife, and promise not to do group sex with anyone but you two?
  • Or do you want actual polyamory?
  • Something else?
From what I understand...
  • Neither you nor Wife are interested in dating anyone else at this time.
    • Could Lady be interested in dating others or would that be a dealbreaker?
    • What if Lady only wanted to date one of you to start, and then, if compatible, start dating the other one 6 months later? Are you up for that? Or does it have to be dating both of you from Day 1?

  • Wife is not interested in dating some other couple for a triad elsewhere. She's only interested in things here in this home.
    • Can she change her mind later? How about you? Lady?

  • A triad model is the only one you and Wife are up for at this time.
    • So if Lady is up for other models, it's a deal breaker?
    • What if the initial agreement is for a closed triad, but one/some of you change your minds later and want to date others? Could this be renegotiated?

  • Wife thinks this would be "adding Lady" to the existing (you + her) dyad. Do you think the same way or differently?
    • It would be limited to (You + Wife) dating and sharing sex on your own, and then (you + Wife + Lady) having trio dates and threesomes.
    • Lady has to be okay with giving up dating however she wants right now, and agree to this more limited arrangement.
    • For you two it is "expansion to add Lady as a third" and for Lady it is "reduction -- limiting herself to you and Wife."

  • Wife doesn't think it would be separate smaller relationships happening all at once inside the triad.
    • (You + Wife) dating and sharing sex on your own
    • (You + Lady) dating and sharing sex on your own
    • (Wife + Lady) dating and sharing sex on their own
    • (You + Wife + Lady) getting along as friends, NOT necessarily group sex.
    • MAYBE (You + Wife + Lady) dating in a group and MAYBE sharing group sex.

  • You have done some reading. Wife has done ___. You will expect Lady will have done ___.

  • What will you be doing so you are NOT so isolated?
    • How will you set up your support ahead of time?
    • Or will you rely on anonymous online support only?
    • What will Wife and Lady be doing to set up their own support systems?

  • Even though you both have excellent communication, you and Wife have never talked about how you two would break up if it had to happen so it can go well and end peacefully. Made the emergency plan in a time of calm.
    • You both just expect it to never happen.
    • And if it does, you both plan to just wing it with no emergency plan in place ahead of time. Cuz people having strong feelings that led to a break-up happening in the first place are great at thinking rationally and doing conflict resolution when all hotheaded.

  • The expectation is to "go steady" from Day 1 and have a closed triad, so Lady has to be bisexual and unpartnered, even though you two come partnered to each other already.

  • The expectation is to inform Lady before she agrees to participate in this closed triad that if one leg of the triad breaks up, everyone else else will have to break up too, even if feelings have developed.
    • It will break up into "original couple and Lady."
    • It won't ever be down to everyone single or paired up differently than how they went in.

  • You and Wife want to ensure that you two are comfortable, first and foremost. This (you + Wife) dyad comes first always.
    • Lady will be informed of this before she agrees to participate.
    • She is to expect couple privilege things here.

  • The expectation is triad only across the board.
    • Lady cannot be in the triad with you two, and then on her own time poly-date others elsewhere.

  • You have had a vasectomy. Accidental pregnancies from you are not expected.
    • If there are any accidental pregnancies from others, you expect Wife to do ___, and Lady to do ______.
    • Lady will be informed of this before agreeing to participate here. You want to "share everything," but won't help or support her through an accidental pregnancy.
    • How about if Lady wants to have planned children? Would you support her in that?

  • You have read poly hell. You do not think getting caught up in "New Relationship Energy" will happen to any of the triad participants. Nobody will get all gaga for one person and neglect the other partner in the triad.
I think you and Wife could spend more time thinking and talking things out.

Galagirl
 
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A. We would welcome children.
B. We are looking to relocate from the Midwest to the east coast, but this will depend on the situation with the potential partner and what her needs are.
C. That would depend on what the lady would want us involved in. If our lady friend wants us very involved, we are willing to go to any lengths to be involved with her wants, needs, and passions.
D. We can be honest with most people close to us. We would refer to her as our partner and family.
E. This would be after a normal relationship to ensure we all want the same things. But she would be welcome to help decide if she would like to share a room. If she wanted her own space, she would be more than welcome to have that. We also have a shared office. If a separate space was needed, she would be are welcome to that, as well.
F. If we all agreed to share, then we would have to accommodate a new shared plan, such as possibly a three-person will or all filing taxes as single.

Most of these questions are very good to have spoken about, but also all situational, as it would include her thoughts, feelings, and opinions, as well as ours.
 
It's obviously all situational and theoretical right now :)

Any thoughts on how you would emotionally process it if you ended up going through a lot of unsuccessful early dating phases, if it takes you years to find someone long term compatible, or if you never do, or, horror of horrors, one of you, after meeting a woman agreeable to all of this, you actually find that one of you wants monogamy with her and not in your current marriage?

I ask this specifically because I dated a couple once, right up until he told us both that he wanted to leave her for me. She and I were happy with the status quo, but once that was tabled everything fell to pieces, slowly and painfully for all. They ended up staying together, but not before irreparable damage was done to everyone.
 
I very much appreciate your support and your experienced point of view. It brings good and valuable insight and questions that we spoke about that otherwise we would not have known to talk about. So, thank you.

As wife is demisexual, she tends to fall hard and fast for others. I have always been the rock. I do not mind being her rock and will devote my life to it. We are both aware this could potentially be a long road and are also aware that the person to complete us might never come.

As for the horror question, I believe this would not be the case. But as this has never happened, we do not know. If our lady would want monogamy with only one of us, we have decided that this would not work for us. We have also agreed that we are both okay if one has sex if the other is not in the mood, but the offer has to be on the table. As for one of us only wanting monogamy, all I can say is, as of now, neither of us wants this and do not ever see this changing.

Again, we very much appreciate hearing from your particular viewpoint.
 
Yes. At this point all is theoretical and you'd have to have the talks again with any potential.

It's mainly to get your own thoughts/feelings sorted out ahead of time, where possible, so you can be clear about what you can and cannot offer Lady. It is good that you are contemplating it.

Since the expectation is for everyone to break up back to "original couple and Lady" if something goes awry, what would a decent parting look like?

Since you plan to move to the east coast -- what's the expectation? Change to LDR? Lady has to move with you? You would NOT move if Lady wanted to stay here? Will you wait to date until after the move?

Will you let people close to you know you are poly dating before Lady is even here? How do you plan to do that?

Galagirl
 
I'd recommend you start reading all of the useful books on polyamory that are out now. That way you can get tons of into all in one place, without having to ask specific questions here and wait for bits of info to trickle in.

Here are three to start with:

Opening Up
Designer Relationships
Polysecure
 
GalaGirl said:
Yes. At this point all is theoretical and you'd have to have the talks again with any potential.

It's mainly to get your own thoughts/feelings sorted out ahead of time, where possible, so you can be clear about what you can and cannot offer Lady. It is good that you are contemplating it.

Since the expectation is for everyone to break up back to "original couple and Lady" if something goes awry, what would a decent parting look like?

Since you plan to move to the east coast -- what's the expectation? Change to LDR? Lady has to move with you? You would NOT move if Lady wanted to stay here? Will you wait to date until after the move?

Will you let people close to you know you are poly dating before Lady is even here? How do you plan to do that?

Galagirl
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As decent as it could be. The goal would always be to remain friends and still communicate.

The plan is to meet in our desired move-to location, so we are not displacing our lady. So if that means no dating until after we move, we are okay with that. If it means building our relationship LD and visiting on vacations, we are also prepared for that.

It might be a bit embarrassing, but I am a pretty open person. We are hermits, for the most part. I do not have much family left. Both my daughters are very accepting. My oldest child is poly NB/M/M. (I hope I did that right.) My youngest is bi. They are the most important to us. My wife’s family is very accepting, for the most part, and we do not worry about their judgement. As for friends, we do not have many. We share 2-3 friends and we are very much okay with that.
 
crashandburn1980 said:
We have also discussed that we are both ok if one has sex if the other is not in the mood but the offer has to be on the table.
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I am curious. Have you ever actually _had_ three person sex? It’s lovely. But it’s very different than duo and just… not always what one wants on any given evening. The “always on offer” thing is, quite frankly, gonna be coercive to at least one of you sometimes, perhaps often (and yes, that person might be you). The “always on offer” thing might one day be your wife and your partner being enthusiastic about each other-- that’s what they are into that night, while throwing a couple strokes of a grudging handjob in your direction because “always on offer." There’s no sex sadder than obligation sex…
 
We both have had three-person sex, yes, but not together. The idea is that if one partner, regardless of who it is, is not in the mood, they do not have to join. But the offer should be on the table, such as “Hey babe, we are pretty horny. Would you like to go have some fun with us?” This can work in any format. And this way the offer is there, but the partner does not feel obligated to join if not in the mood.
 
crashandburn1980 said:
We both have had three-person sex, yes, but not together. The idea is that if one partner, regardless of who it is, is not in the mood, they do not have to join. But the offer should be on the table, such as “Hey babe, we are pretty horny. Would you like to go have some fun with us?” This can work in any format. And this way the offer is there, but the partner does not feel obligated to join if not in the mood.
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Okay so what about if Aspen and Birch want 1v1 sex with each other, but Cherry would be willing to join if invited? Is 1v1 sex only allowed if the third person doesn't want to be involved?
 
No, I do not think that would be an issue. But this would have to be a boundary or rule set forth by all parties. We can talk about this as a couple, but to be fair to all involved, it should be a conversation that includes everyone.
 
How about including that each dyad has a date night that the third person can't intrude upon? This way, the vitally important 1-1 sex can happen authentically, rather than only when the third person bows out. Each of you are likely to behave differently when given the tabled offer, and over time, this could grow into an issue.
 
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