Does marriage affect autonomy in Polyamory?

PolyElectric

New member
I have been with my girlfriend for a few years now. We do live together, but split finances 50/50. We both make an income but I recently graduated from college and began making several times more money than she does.

I never really thought about marriage much because my girlfriend always said marriage is not for her. But she recently changed her tune about it and is talking about getting married.

When I ask her how it will change things she says it will not change anything at all. And that makes me wonder what the point of getting married at all is. If we are not going to live the typical married life. I wonder how marriage will affect autonomy in the relationship. Can anyone speak to how marriage affects a polyamorous relationship?
 
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Marriage affects the poly relationship because the government will recognize the married relationship and no others. YMMV depending on which country the married people are in.
 
It might not change how you feel about each other or how you do/do not poly date other people.

But married people have certain benefits you don't have if not married.

Can put you on my health insurance, you are my "next of kin" now on a lot of things which gives you a legal standing, we could file joint taxes, then social security benefits and inheritance things if one of us dies and more.

Could google for lists.

Galagirl
 
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Marriage comes with a lot of inherent benefits which can become a limiter to other relationships.

-Hospitals will let wife in and ask her for decisions if you can't make them but not gf, unless you fill out extra forms and even then it is letting wife in with no questions while gf potentially has to wait while permission is verified.
-Money/stuff goes to wife unless you have a solid legal will, and even then wife could contest it and potentially win because she's wife.
-when introducing a partner as "wife," another partner is less likely to be readily accepted at other events. This isn't ALWAYS the case, but in certain circles it will affect attitudes towards other partners a lot.


You already live together and share expenses, even if you don't mingle money. So there's an inherent priority there. The legal marriage just adds another level of inherent priority/hierarchy.

I'm legally married, live/coparent/share finances with Hubby. Boy in no way feels "secondary" but we all acknowledge that to a certain extent, Hubby gets primary consideration. His schedule affects mine, he has to approve certain activities if our kid is involved, etc. Boy still gets prioritized too in different ways (like weekends are pretty much guaranteed his - if I am making weekend plans that are optional, I'm running them by HIM instead of Hubby), but the level of integration is different and that could be because I was already married when I met him.
 
I don't see how marriage could not be an escalation in the direction of entanglement. And I don't see how entanglement can not result in a net decrease of personal autonomy in one form or another.

Autonomy is a word that gets thrown around a lot but I cant ever figure out what sort of autonomy is valued by one person to the next.

For example, I would describe myself as having high sexual autonomy, but low autonomy over my income and time. And that is a result of decisions I made with entanglement, even though I am no longer married to anyone I am a co-owner of a property, a parent to a child, and a financial supporter of others...

While there are benefits to things like marriage, child rearing, co-ownership of assets, ect... I don't see a way to have that sort of entanglement without the loss of autonomy. Maybe the better question to ask yourself is in what areas of life do you want autonomy, and if the answer is "all areas" maybe re-think relationship escalation like moving in together, marriage, children ect...

In America, the person who makes more money stands to lose some financial autonomy in a marriage contract. You, in this case.
 
In my country, we have a common law marriage that basically means that there's very little difference between being married and living together as a couple, in the eyes of the government. Just more paperwork if you want a divorce.

But our tax laws and administration are extremely different to yours anyway.

As for autonomy, my husband and I have agreed to a lot. Either of us can do anything we like with our own discretionary spending money without checking with the other person first. We also plan our own social calendars and just check to the level of courtesy that it's not going to negatively impact the other. Of course, we don't have child care to factor into that, which I honestly think would be a much greater impact on autonomy than marriage.
 
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It sounds like she was not interested in marriage until you started making money and now she wants to get married just so she can get the financial security.
 
Hi PolyElectric,
As I see it, there are four levels of the effects that marriage can have:
  • First, there are the legal benefits and stipulations. These effects are guaranteed if you get legally married.
  • Next, the way other people view the two of you is likely to change. Now, in the eyes of society, you are no longer "just" a boyfriend and girlfriend, you are now husband and wife. To some people, that implies a certain commitment and they will expect that of you.
  • Next, the way the two of you view each other can change. This is the part your girlfriend is thinking of when she says, "Nothing will change." Possibly that might be true, at least as far as how she views you.
  • Finally, there's a chance that the way you view yourself might change. You might see yourself as being more committed than you used to be. You might see yourself as being less autonomous. That part is really up to you.
You probably will lose some autonomy. How much is dependent on the four levels I described above.
Regards,
Kevin T.
 
In an answer to the title / question of this thread ….YES!!!!

I have been with my girlfriend for a few years now. We do live together, but split finances 50/50. We both make an income but I recently graduated from college and began making several times more money than she does.
And as time grinds on with more assets and growth of income or savings marriage gets more and more expensive to walk away from. STAY SINGLE. IN FACT some forum member divorce their spouse to make their poly relationships more fair and equilateral.

When I ask her how it will change things she says it will not change anything at all. And that makes me wonder what the point of getting married at all is. If we are not going to live the typical married life. I wonder how marriage will affect autonomy in the relationship. Can anyone speak to how marriage affects a polyamorous relationship?
Personally I don’t know why anyone in your position and your phase of life would want or need marriage. People often rail that marriage is a patriarchal construct to enslave women and insure responsibility for children. No one in poly is being enslaved ( without consent ) and DNA testing has taken care of the responsibility issue. So really your GF/ should be proud and honored to be so free. Also I’ll only speak for myself here but being bugged about marriage becomes a big turn off.
 
I wrote about how MrS and I came to be married despite differing views in Journey Blog here: Marriage Discussion

Coming up on 26 years later - meh, I wouldn't do it again. Don't get me wrong - IF I was going to be married, then MrS is definitely the person I would choose to be married to! But the benefits have been mainly financial and legal (taxes, insurance, etc. - which are NOT insignificant). And MrS and I had discussed a LOT about what marriage would mean to us (I already ID'd as bi and poly) - in my opinion, you really have to talk with your girlfriend about what marriage means to her if it "won't change anything". Do you live in a "community property" state? (Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin.) This may change the landscape.

How would she feel about a pre-nuptual agreement? Ex-Dude and I always joked that MrS was playing the "really-long-con" by latching on when I was still an undergrad and sticking by me until I was earning the "Big Bucks" - but the fact is that we started with nothing but debt and, together, built the life we have now (minus what Ex-Dude took with him when he left). If he hadn't worked while I was getting my education, we would have had a LOT more debt to overcome. If he hadn't been around to take the burden of the mundane life tasks (grocery shopping, car inspections, vet appointments, etc.) from me, I might have broken under the strain of a 80-100 hour work-week during those early years. As the MasterCard commercial says: "Priceless". (Would he have been so dedicated to supporting me without the "husband" label? Well, he is MrS, so I'm fairly certain that wasn't the driving factor.)

So, my answer is, "Yes, probably, but it depends."
 
When I ask her how it will change things she says it will not change anything at all. And that makes me wonder what the point of getting married at all is.

What did she say when you asked her to clarify this for you?

In the US at least, marriage as an establishment comes with a cubic ton of assumptions (and some legal distinctions). That doesn't mean these social assumptions will impact you, but we live in a society that has a strong opinion about marriage and that's not a risk that should be ignored. However, because it is a legal contract, and getting out of that contract is a barrier to exit, it factually will decrease your autonomy.

As far as functional day to day autonomy it won't necessarily change how your life plays out, but that is entirely dependent upon what everyone's expectations are.

This is why it's critical that you two have an adult, no holds barred, conversation about this. No hinting and suggesting, no guessing and wishing, but a "use your words" back and forth. Just saying "it won't change anything" isn't an answer unless you know each other incredibly well and you've already laid down excellent groundwork in understanding what each of you values. Since you came here asking for our input and wondering why she wants to get married, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you might not have a very strong understanding of what she values and how she responds to change and challenge.

Until you are absolutely certain you understand the implications of getting into a life long contract with this person... don't.
 
How would she feel about a pre-nuptual agreement?

That's a question that would make a lot of sense to ask. Even if getting a prenup isn't something you are particularly concerned about, the question is powerful and the answer will be informative.
 
I am getting married to my long term partner this year. We are signing a pre-nup as we have significant assets in two countries. We will be careful to create wills that make sure everyone is looked after. Will it change things? The big things won't change... we are still living the poly life. We will still love and cherish each other. I do get the title "wife" where my metamour doesn't, we will all have to handle that gently for a while until she sees that her position in our hinges' life doesn't change.
 
until she sees that her position in our hinges' life doesn't change.
Her position in his life isn't changing...but isn't your position changing, by virtue of the fact that you will then be his legal and socially acknowledged wife?

I think that is the main issue with a poly person being married to their partner...it means one relationship is simply different than the others. That's not necessarily a bad thing because each relationship IS different, and it often makes sense to be legally and financially entangled via marriage...but...it certainly changes things for the OTHER relationships that then can NEVER be married.
 
Her position in his life isn't changing...but isn't your position changing, by virtue of the fact that you will then be his legal and socially acknowledged wife?

I think that is the main issue with a poly person being married to their partner...it means one relationship is simply different than the others. That's not necessarily a bad thing because each relationship IS different, and it often makes sense to be legally and financially entangled via marriage...but...it certainly changes things for the OTHER relationships that then can NEVER be married.
Well, the other partner can get married, just not to their married hinge. I'm just being nitpicky; I know you understand that.
 
"Marriage changes things..."
"Sex changes things..."

Conventional wisdom - which does hold some truth in terms of personal and societal expectations.

I wrote in my blog a long time ago ( 10 years apparently) about the subtle difference it made to me after I married MrS (almost 26 years ago!):
". For me, there was a subtle but comforting difference. Pre-marriage, when I was making plans for the future I would think in terms of “I am going to do this and that...and MrS will be there.” After the wedding my thought processes went “We are going to do this and that.” Subtle."

I also wrote earlier in this thread that I would not do it (get married) again. At the same time, I do not want to divorce MrS - because I a.) love him a bajillion and he knows and appreciates me better than anyone else (even if he doesn't want to have sex with me), and b.) have made all of our financial plans for the future/retirement based on us being married - like when to start taking Social Security benefits! So, I would rather stay married but separated if it came to that - because then I know I can provide for him fully for the rest of his days. (I guess if he wants to marry a super-rich chick that might change the equation...:rolleyes:)
 
I also wrote earlier in this thread that I would not do it (get married) again. At the same time, I do not want to divorce MrS - because I a.) love him a bajillion and he knows and appreciates me better than anyone else (even if he doesn't want to have sex with me), and b.) have made all of our financial plans for the future/retirement based on us being married -
OMG are you me? I've thought about this a lot because part of me thinks that - once MiniMe is, hopefully, happily on his own, I might be happier as a solo-poly person... but all my financial planning, such as it is, has always been as a "two", not a one or a three or a many. And I don't know how to disentangle that... nor how to make that fair for Joan...
 
I hear you both! I'm not quite as far along the retirement planning path (eek) but right now, it's all about planning for two. And I'll still be working long after Adam hits retirement age so money should be okay, but quality time...eek.
 
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