Electrons Introduction

GalaGirl

Well-known member
When we are apart, she's with her #1 and I am out of sight/ out of mind/ on the shelf like a toy.

I notice you keep bringing this up. Does she say that to you? Or are you telling yourself that?

Along the way, she and I fell deeper in love than just a NSA casual sex rel and we are trying to figure out what that means. At least, she "says" she's fallen in love with me, but I'm more observant of how her actions make me feel than her words.

What kind or loving behaviors would you like her to start doing towards you?

What unkind or unloving behaviors would you like her to stop doing towards you?

What kind or loving behavior would you like to start doing toward yourself?

What unkind or unloving behavior would you like to stop doing toward yourself?

She said that if (or when) she and I were to break up, she would not be interested in finding other guys to date.

At this time. Are you prepared should that change? That she wants her DH, you as BF1 and some new BF2?

How much quality time do you need in a relationship to feel loved, cared for, that it's a worthwhile connection, etc?

I want a relationship that's more than a just NSA comet casual sex when she's horny and available (AT THE CURRENT FREQUENCY), but less than full on moving in, sharing chores and daily life responsibilities, and living in a Poly House

Sounds like you want a steady GF then. And not like a booty call or FWB.

Don't have to live together in some poly house. Not everyone wants that or is even compatible for cohabitation. I meant it more like eventually this relationship has to stop being so "guest-y/newbie" at some point, right? How long do you have to date each other for you to be able to RELAX in the relationship? Feel safe? Secure?

When do you start treating her like a regular part of your life? Like if she comes over to your place, when does she stop being "a guest" and just starts pitching in to wash the dishes and sweep?

I don't live with my close friends and don't plan to. But I think every single one of them has sat here folding laundry or helped run the vac. I've helped do same at their houses. Cuz if we want to hang out and do pizza & movie, we get there faster if the chores are out of the way. I don't have to serve them a drink like a totally brand new guest. They can get it themselves from the kitchen -- they know where I keep everything. They don't have to ask to use the bathroom. They know where it is. Sometimes it's errand dates and they take their farmer market produce to their home and I take mine to mine. But going together to get this chore date done means we get some time together. YKWIM? My friends are a regular feature in my life.

So what does more than a booty call, less than living together look like to you? A poly GF who is a regular feature in your life would do... what with you?

Quote From http://cat-and-dragon.com/stef/Poly/Labriola/open.html

Pros and Cons of the Primary/Secondary Model​

This model is popular because it is the model most similar to traditional marriage and does not threaten the primacy of the couple. For most married or co-habiting couples, it is not such a stretch to have a few outside relationships as long as they know that the primary commitment is to the marriage. They can still be married, have children, live together, be socially acceptable, and "live a normal life", keeping their outside relationships secret from friends and family. It doesn't require making any radical changes in your lifestyle or your world view. One major benefit for many couples is that they feel secure that they won't be abandoned, because their spouse has agreed that outside relationships will be secondary. This is simpler and easier to organize logistically than other forms of open relationships. If there is any conflict over time, loyalty or commitment, the spouse always gets priority.

However, a major drawback of this model is that outside relationships are not so simple or easy to predict or control. Having a sexual relationship with someone else often leads to becoming emotionally involved and even falling in love, frequently causing a crisis in the primary relationship and even divorce. Initiating a sexual relationship is opening a door to many possibilities, and often secondary relationships grow into something else which does not fit neatly into the confines of this model. Many people who become "secondary" lovers become angry at being subjugated to the couple, and demand equality or end the relationship. For this model to be successful, couples must be very convinced that their relationship is strong enough to weather these ups and downs. Conversely, some couples who start with this model decide eventually to shift to some form of the Multiple Primary Partners model to allow secondary relationships to become equal to the primary couple relationship.

Are you bumping into this? You were ok last year being in a primary/secondary model. But now you are outgrowing it and want to know if there's the possibility of a co-primary model over time even if you aren't ever going to be a nesting partner?

Galagirl
 
Last edited:

Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
At least, she "says" she's fallen in love with me, but I'm more observant of how her actions make me feel than her words.
Her love isn't about how *you* feel.

You seem to be conflating love with some specific set of actions, probably ones grounded in mononormative thinking that simply don't apply here.

That you aren't taking her words about her feelings face value is a you problem. If you have expectations of actions that she's not doing, examine why you have those expectations.

You keep saying "you're shelved", or "out of sight out of mind". But then you also say "We do text and phone in between irl dates. We communicate very well."

Which is it?

You're right about one thing. You clearly have too much "empty time" and it sounds like you're spending it pining for her. How about investing in yourself a little more so you have more to share with her, or anyone else you develop a romantic fancy for.
 

Electrons

New member
Sounds like you want a steady GF then. And not like a booty call or FWB.

I think it's all coming down to this. . . . and the frustrating part is that FWB/ Hinge (who is amazing and can stir magical feelings within me with a flirty glance) can not also be that steady GF.

Which is it ?
It's both .. we communicate thoughts and ideas well, but do so from the shelf when not in person. I would prefer more in person / quality time . . . less shelf time. Quality time and touch are my Love languages . . and texting from the shelf in between IRL dates does not meet those needs.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
So then the next question is... which are you?
  • monoamorous (want to love 1 sweetie) and monogamous (comfortable in 1:1 relationship shapes only)
  • monoamorous (want to love 1 sweetie) and relationship shape flexible (comfortable doing monogamy or being an end point in a poly V or similar)
  • polyamorous (want to love more than 1 sweetie) and relationship shape flexible (comfortable doing monogamy or being a hinge or an end point in a V or similar)
  • polyamorous (want to love more than 1 sweetie) and comfortable in poly shapes only
Like... why are you doing this? Because you love polyamorous V's or love the idea of exploring them? Or because it was the only way to get access to her and pursue the initial attraction?

You might be bumping into "love is not enough." Like attraction, chemistry, loving feelings... all great. But a part time FWB is not what you actually want. You want a regular dating partner who can provide quality time/loving touch on a regular basis.

So... is participating here like this still worth it to you or not? Nobody can answer that but you.

I suggest you do your soul searching.
  • You could wait and see. Change nothing for now and let it ride for a bit more.
  • You could let go of some of the wants and settle for less than what you originally were after in your relationship with her. Like stop looking for GF here. Accept FWB is all you get here. Then decide.
    • You keep seeing her as FWB. And also move on to date other people while still seeing her. So this becomes an open poly V where all of you can see other people rather than a closed or partially closed V.
    • You could stop seeing her because FWB is all you get here. And move on to date other people in a ____ relationship model. You try to practice poly with more compatible people or stop doing poly.
  • You could do something else I can't think of right now.
Whatever path you pick? You could assess if this particular relationship meets your personal standards or not. So then it's like... are you ok being FWB and the limits of that model? For how long? Or has it run its course? Because while great in moments... it's not enough for long term sustainability?

Galagirl
 
Last edited:

dingedheart

Well-known member
Her love isn't about how *you* feel.

REALLY. Is that how you operate in your romantic relationships ? Last I checked romantic relationships was sort of a team sport and if and when it grows to the point you share such feelings it’s done with a purpose To let them know they are loved or they feel loved.
You seem to be conflating love with some specific set of actions, probably ones grounded in mononormative thinking that simply don't apply here.
I think the guy his 50s ….(probably been around the block a few time ) knows or feels the disconnect form the words and actions. Relationships are relationships at the end of the day I CANT THINK any specific mononormative thinking create this disconnect. To me this sounds like blame the victim instead of saying trust your gut. From the limited amount of information it’s just as likely she‘s very conflicted emotionally being new to this and as a result is send mixed signals.

That you aren't taking her words about her feelings face value is a you problem.
Again …not sure how you get there from here. AND I KNOW for most of us this isn’t true . At least with the limited amount of information. Words play a part of communication. Body language, eye contact, facial expressions sometimes play a more significant role.

If you have expectations of actions that she's not doing, examine why you have those expectations.
I guess the expectation is to have words match those communication elements and their actions. THATS then general expectation.
You keep saying "you're shelved", or "out of sight out of mind". But then you also say "We do text and phone in between irl dates. We communicate very well."

Which is it?
why do you see this as incongruent. I think I could easily generate a situation in which there was some texting and phones and good communication in the moment or on a specific topic the person felt like a toy put back on the shelf.

You're right about one thing. You clearly have too much "empty time" and it sounds like you're spending it pining for her. How about investing in yourself a little more so you have more to share with her, or anyone else you develop a romantic fancy for.
TO ME this sounds a little nasty and insulting. It’s like telling the struggling mono husband to go get a hobby or take a class to become more interesting.
 

Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
I would tell the struggling mono husband to get a hobby, but in his case not to be more interesting. I'd tell him to get a hobby as a part of the detangling process and not being so dependent on the default setting of spending time at home together. If the mono husband agreed to the open relationship so wife could be a hinge, and he's struggling, then expanding his world is one way to help address that struggle. There will be other things, too, but I'm not here to write every possible thing down.

To me this sounds like blame the victim instead of saying trust your gut. From the limited amount of information it’s just as likely she‘s very conflicted emotionally being new to this and as a result is send mixed signals.
I personally wouldn't class Electrons as a victim, and since he's in this situation voluntarily there's also always the option of walking away if his gut starts saying so loudly that this is never going to work. But yes, his girlfriend could be making some mistakes that frequently happen when learning how to be a good hinge. Or she could be suitably experienced and this is simply how she manages her secondary relationships (edit: I see from the original post that she is new to being a hinge. I also see that her husband has also settled into being a hinge and they are probably aren't spending 93% of their time together, and then there's a massive percentage deduction for work hours, and for personal time, and for other friends and family, etc.). It remains, if Electrons wants to remain in this relationship, then he has to find ways to become comfortable with that including self management of thoughts, feelings and time.

As for the rest of your rebuttal, great! That's the real value around here - that we all bring different lenses to any given situation based on our own experiences and knowledge (I know you know this, I'm saying it for the benefit of the OP and any other newer readers).
 
Last edited:

WhatHappened

Active member
Her love isn't about how *you* feel.
I would disagree. If a man tells me he loves me as he goes out drinking every night or lies to me or watches TV while I make him dinner and clean up afterward or insults me daily or weekly...yeah, if I FEEL like I'm being used rather than that I'm loved, there might be a reason.

If Electrons FEELS like he's on a shelf until she's bored...it's definitely possible it's because she's treating him that way.
 

Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
What are some of the mistakes that frequently happen when learning how to be a good hinge.
IMO, most are around time or information mismanagement, or power and control imbalances.

When she's with you, are you hearing too much about her home life?

Is she repeatedly canceling on you because of issues at home?

Is she on her phone all the time/distracted/not present when she's with you?

Is your entire relationship behind closed doors/you never go out in public because she doesn't want to be spotted with another man?

Is she not allowing any escalating at all of the relationship? (You've actually already answered this one when you said you've gone from one date a week to multiple, and away trips, and overnights, but I'm answering in general about noob mistakes.)

Is she allowing her other partner to dictate the terms of your relationship? (I know they started with veto power, but you've indicated that they have moved on from that, so not a problem anymore with that.) Is there anything else that's problematic and beyond the unavoidable time sharing of a healthy poly relationship?

Is she so entangled with her husband that she's not giving your relationship a fair chance? (Again, from your earlier posts it doesn't sound like this at all. From your own testimony, she's escalated your relationship during the summer and her husband has also started his own extra marital relationship.)

Is she not opening up and letting you into her wider world, even conversationally? Or is she compartmentalizing so much that you're still wondering who she is and why? (Side note: Sure, it might take a while for you to be actually introduced to her friends/family as she might need to "come out" to them and there might be some complications with inlaws if her husband doesn't want to come out (yet).)

Maybe others will have more things to add. These are what I can think of off the top of my head right now.

I'm still not sure what she's doing or not doing that's got you so unhappy. Your time splitting calculations omit so very many variables that you're actually just torturing yourself with the belief that she spends 90+ percent of her time with hubby. That's just fallacious. She did the work to open their relationship FOR YOU. She is just a matter of months in with you and you've had at least one vacation together. You are concerned that she can't tell you definite things about the future, but then it could be just as much confusion if she was making big plans with you after just a matter of months. And possibly a little alarm bell.

Question: what is she actually DOING that you feel shelved between dates (other than living her ordinary life)? Or is it because you NEED more in person time than she'll ever have to give? Is she the problem, or is a polyamorous relationship structure the problem? Because from your writing she sounds wonderful except for the fact that you have to schedule dates with some mindfulness towards her prior existing relationship. That's poly in the vast majority of cases.

So why exactly do you feel like she doesn't love you? She says she loves you. She continues to make dates with you. It sounds like you see her at least a few times a week. And when you do, she's really into you. She also texts and talks to you between those dates. (All your testimony). What actions belie her words, what makes you perceive that she only sees you when she's bored? Is the date schedule not regular enough that you have security that there will be another? That's not the impression I got from most of what you have written. Why do you feel used? And what's missing, other than in person time? It seems contradictory that you're seeing yourself as a booty call when she's horny, and that you see each other so much and communicate between times.

Is it because you don't have a regular schedule? Would having one help?
 
Last edited:

Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
I would disagree. If a man tells me he loves me as he goes out drinking every night or lies to me or watches TV while I make him dinner and clean up afterward or insults me daily or weekly...yeah, if I FEEL like I'm being used rather than that I'm loved, there might be a reason.

If Electrons FEELS like he's on a shelf until she's bored...it's definitely possible it's because she's treating him that way.
Okay, I agree that empty words and callous behaviours would undermine a relationship. But I didn't get the impression that that was what was going on here.

Electrons specifically wrote that she says she's *in love* with him and this is something that grew during their summer of NRE and relationship escalation. This isn't a case of being a neglected nesting partner, au contraire, Electrons is getting the best of her when they are together.

When I said that, "her love isn't about what you feel," I was referring to this statement:

At least, she "says" she's fallen in love with me, but I'm more observant of how her actions make me feel than her words.

I am meaning that being in love is the emotion that she's feeling/the hormone dump that her brain is doing that's we call being in love. This is not the same as actions and conflating the two is not helping tease out the real issues. Undermining how she feels by disbelieving what she's expressing is likely to do more harm than good.

The notion of, "if she's in love with me she should do x y z to make me feel loved" is actually worth unpacking because it's only a belief. She could be in love with him and do nothing about it at all, because her feelings of being in love are hers, not his and she owes him nothing for it. Furthermore, an extrapolation to "if you truly loved me you'd....." has its own problems, not the least being it's manipulative.

Electrons could try instead, "if she wants to spend time with me, she should do x y z" and if she's not meeting those requirements for a healthy relationship, then make it clear what is needed, and if she can't do that, walk away.
 
Last edited:

Electrons

New member
When she's with you, are you hearing too much about her home life?

Is your entire relationship behind closed doors/you never go out in public because she doesn't want to be spotted with another man?
These 2 are difficult for me, yes. We've discussed both. She knows I'm interested in her, and not her #1. When she's telling me stories about their good times together, it makes me feel like an outsider. Of course, I am an outsider, so those feelings are correct. Also, hearing about him kinda spoils the moments between her and I for me a bit. I see there's a fine line for the hinge to walk to bring her #2 into the fold, and make him feel included and wanted, but not so much that her #1 feels displaced. We've talked, she's trying, we are inexperienced and making it up as we go along.

Yes, she's still "coming out" and there's plenty of people around town that she does not want to know. She's got consent for "ethical" non-monogamy with her #1, but she's in the closet with public and her family (and adult children, who do come around the house from time to time). Most of our dates are out of town, hotels, and events that none of her IRL friends and family would attend. I would feel a lot more "included" in her IRL if she were able to let her children know about me, but that's not my timeline to push. I totally get it. I need to learn to be more patient I guess.

Evie, aside from being impatient with their growth curve, what would be a short list of mistakes that a new #2 in a Vee would make?

Question: what is she actually DOING that you feel shelved between dates (other than living her ordinary life)? Or is it because you NEED more in person time than she'll ever have to give? Is she the problem, or is a polyamorous relationship structure the problem? Because from your writing she sounds wonderful except for the fact that you have to schedule dates with some mindfulness towards her prior existing relationship. That's poly in the vast majority of cases.
I have come to recognize that this is exactly my problem, not hers. She's giving it all she's got . . . It's has been fine up till now, will be fine for a bit longer, but I'm seeing forward that is not the permanent rel that will bring the maximum satisfaction in my life.

As I said from the outset, I've always been mono, and this is a first (maybe only) venture into the Poly world. The experience has not convinced me that I would be happy as a Hinge in my own Vee. . . or that I would be happy as a primary with a hinge who had a #2. I'm not sure I'm really all that happy as being #2. Of course, that's why I'm here, sharing thoughts and trying to figure it all out.

Yes, I originally agreed to join the adventure because of instant access to romancing with the Hinge, AND also because I was curious about poly and what it all entails. It's been an education to say the least.

So why exactly do you feel like she doesn't love you? She says she loves you. She continues to make dates with you. It sounds like you see her at least a few times a week. And when you do, she's really into you. She also texts and talks to you between those dates.
I didn't say I feel like she doesn't love me. I guess the way you word it, it's just her being compartmentalized. . . and that's a normal and natural way for Hinge and #1 to protect their existing and long time rel.
 

Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
Fyi, there's probably quite a bit of her protecting her burgeoning relationship with you happening at home that you don't see.
 

Electrons

New member
Fyi, there's probably quite a bit of her protecting her burgeoning relationship with you happening at home that you don't see.
Maybe. But from what I'm told, it's her that occasionally get the "what the hell am I doing" thoughts in her head and it's him that talks her off the cliff as he continues to support and encourage her to explore with me.

More to the story . . or perhaps I mentioned it above . . . He was, in fact, there when she and I first met, He saw our instant connection, He saw her light up, and He was really the one that encouraged her (for several months afterward) to follow those feelings with me and open their relationship. . . until she finally did. I've recently come to understand that this may be his kink - Hotwifing. If so, and it appears so, this is what allows him to keep his jealousy in check as he's getting enjoyment from it. If so, my "veto" fear may have been unwarrented as he is getting something out of the deal.

This is all fairly new info for me, so I'm still processing.
 

Electrons

New member
So then the next question is... which are you?
  • monoamorous (want to love 1 sweetie) and monogamous (comfortable in 1:1 relationship shapes only)
This is what I was at the start of this venture, and I guess that I'm realizing that not much has changed in my comfort levels since.
  • You could wait and see. Change nothing for now and let it ride for a bit more.
This is what I'm doing while soul searching and continuing to learn from experienced folks such as yourselves.
  • Because while great in moments... it's not enough for long term sustainability?
Agree.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
But from what I'm told, it's her that occasionally get the "what the hell am I doing" thoughts in her head and it's him that talks her off the cliff as he continues to support and encourage her to explore with me.

Aren't you doing same here? Doing the "what the hell am I doing?" thing? Does it make you nervous hearing that she sometimes struggles because you were looking to her as hinge to provide the stability in this journey?

I didn't say I feel like she doesn't love me. I guess the way you word it, it's just her being compartmentalized. . . and that's a normal and natural way for Hinge and #1 to protect their existing and long time rel.

What does their marriage need protection from? What is the doom? Is it your job to help them protect their marriage from whatever the doom is? Or is it ok for you to trust that they can deal with their marriage stuff? And you attend more to your own relationship with her?

From where I sit it doesn't sound terrible. Overall the group seems to be trying and sounds to be at about the right place for the age of the grouping -- a year in. In duos?
  • you+hinge -- dating for a year as comet FWBs who fell in love. It went from open relationship to polyamory. So now trying to adjust/figure that out. The NRE is wearing off. Initial attraction/compatibility was good. Now trying to see if there's deep compatibility or not.

  • you+DH -- trying to be polite, cordial even though not much in common

  • Hinge + DH -- married, each learning to maintain their marriage while having other partners and meta relationships now.

Maybe it is appropriate at this juncture to still be nervous about some things. It's your first open/polyship thing ever, still sorting things out, only a year in, etc. The old normal you all knew? Doesn't apply here. This is not monogamy. The new normal? Not here yet. It's not like you all have been doing this for 10 years, right?

It's NORMAL to feel weird during transition.

I think there are some things you could stop/start doing though.

When she's telling me stories about their good times together, it makes me feel like an outsider. Of course, I am an outsider, so those feelings are correct.

To me feelings ensue after action behavior or thinking behavior.

So if you feel left out or weird? Some of it can be chalked up to the expected weird of transition. Some of it? Might not be from that. So examine behaviors.
  • Are you getting mixed up in their marriage things that are NOT actually your area of concern? Could step back then. Change your behavior.
  • Is either of them is treating you poorly or trying to get you mixed up in their marriage stuff? Ask them to stop doing X behavior. Could exercise your personal boundaries.
  • Are treating you poorly by calling yourself names like "just a toy on the shelf" or "I'm an outsider" or "I'll never be important to her like he is" or similar? If so, could stop doing that. How are you supposed to feel ok if you are being your own self bully? You want to add to your load or lighten your load?
You are in this open/poly V relationship. You are inside the system, not outside it. The larger polyship is made up of the smaller relationships inside it. So... You are not in their marriage. That's their dyad. Each dyad needs it's own privacy. Not because anything hinky is going on, but because everyone needs some personal space/privacy.
  • Be basic polite and respectful.
  • But don't put their marriage on some pedestal. Esp. so much so you neglect your own self and relationship needs.
  • Speak up. The married couple doesn't get to dictate how it goes for all and you just roll over. You have a voice in the things that DO concern you, and any agreements that affect you.
This either pans out with her or not -- which is the whole point of dating right? To enjoy that dating process unfolding and sort out your compatibility with her. The point of dating her is not to bend yourself into pretzels around their marriage.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:

GalaGirl

Well-known member
HINGE THINGS

Evie, aside from being impatient with their growth curve, what would be a short list of mistakes that a new #2 in a Vee would make?

You asked about hinge stuff. To add to what Evie said...

You might all be dealing in variants of poly hell.

Also, hearing about him kinda spoils the moments between her and I for me a bit. I see there's a fine line for the hinge to walk to bring her #2 into the fold, and make him feel included and wanted, but not so much that her #1 feels displaced. We've talked, she's trying, we are inexperienced and making it up as we go along.

Has she been like a CoupleBlob for too many years?

Like it would be one thing if she shared "DH and I went to Fancy Restaurant to try it out. I had the chicken and it was awesome!" Fair enough. She's sharing what she did last week.

But it's another if she's going on and on and on about him. Some long term couples forget they are still individual people. They act like a joined at the hip CoupleBlob. Some haven't done the work of detangling.

So for you it is like "You know I'm dating you and not him, right?" If she's clueless she's doing that behavior you might have to get brave about holding up a mirror when she does it and telling her to stop / reframe/rephrase.

Is she telling you too many things that she could be telling an ACTUAL outsider?

Like a poly counselor, a friend, a relative, etc? So her newbie learning load lightens/gets help without overwhelming newbie you or adding to your newbie learning pile? You might have to ask her to tell someone else.

Is she trying to make you be like free therapist for her other issues? In her marriage or otherwise?

You might have to set some personal boundaries with her.

If neither is good at that? Have either of you thought about going to couples counseling with a poly counselor or poly support groups with her to get some extra help/support in developing healthy personal boundaries with each other? Internet people can only help you so far.

Is she telling you TMI details? Have you had the conversation yet about information management?

What is "news" you want to know, and what is TMI stuff?

It's one thing to share DH is now dating others and update info about safer sex practices. Because through her, your health is linked to his and his network. That might be newsworthy to you.

But could skip the TMI details. It doesn't build trust. Is she blabbing private him or (her + him) stuff at you? Is she going to tell him things about you or (you+her) stuff that you want private?

Have you talked about the relationship model you are on and want to be in next?

You sound like you don't want a permanent parallel, very separate V with a lot of compartmentalization. Where neither of her partners ever interact. You also don't sound like you want a kitchen table model where everyone is really involved with each other like a family around the kitchen table. Or all living together in some poly house.

Maybe you want something middle-y. Like you and his partners are invited to their new house warming potluck party. Ok, one doesn't buy a house every day And fair enough. You could decline invite or go and bring the chips and dip if you wanted. But you don't want to be hanging out in a trio with her and DH (or with the extended poly network) every weekend or hear every little detail about all of them because (your relationship with her) is mainly about (you+her). Not all these other people.

And now this hotwife thing...

Did he just figure this out? Or they knew all along from the start but didn't tell you until now? Depending on the answer... you may have different feelings around all that and it might be a dealbreaker or not for you.

I'm not sure I'm really all that happy as being #2

What would you need to become a happier BF? Can anything change here or not?

Would you like to know this "primary-secondary" model thing is like training wheels and not permanent? Because from their side, and maybe a little from yours... working under that model makes decisions easier at the start. It's the first stretch out from what you all know -- monogamy. So functioning like "just defer to the married people" makes it easier at first.

Would you like to start losing some of the primary-secondary stuff? Have it be more like "working toward co-primary?" So this relationship has some space to grow from (open relationship with a comet FWB) to (a poly GF that's a regular feature in your life who can spend more time/do loving touch/include you more in her IRL stuff)?

She still has steps to do -- coming out as poly, you meeting friends and family, etc. But you'd like to know that's on the table eventually, even if not this minute? The things that indicate you have a valued place in her life so you can be happier participating and continuing to invest in this?

Or you rather know right now it's just never going to happen? So you can adjust expectations accordingly and not be so "up in the air" about it?

I would feel a lot more "included" in her IRL if she were able to let her children know about me, but that's not my timeline to push. I totally get it. I need to learn to be more patient I guess.

These are adult children? What's the obstacle?

You could tell her you understand she needs some time and you aren't pushing. She can't come out without also outting her DH. Where you can be partially out and just not say you date her right now.

But just so you know... how many years do you have to be kinda in the poly closet with her? Like maybe one of you would have work issues if "out" as poly. But maybe retirement is in 2 years and then the work issues no longer apply. Maybe you'd be willing to put up with that for that long because 2 years is not so bad. But if retirement is like 15 years out... Maybe you don't want to put up with that and rather get out now rather than keep investing?

And if you do decide to seek more partners? You could create a boundary for yourself of "I don't date open/poly people who are not already out to friends and family because I don't like it. Dealing with it once in this relationship is enough."

I think you could assert yourself more and be ok taking up some space at the table. You all chose to be here right? Maybe this helps you?

https://solopoly.net/2012/11/27/non-primary-partners-tell-how-to-treat-us-well/

Galagirl
 
Last edited:

Electrons

New member
And now this hotwife thing...

Did he just figure this out? Or they knew all along from the start but didn't tell you until now? Depending on the answer... you may have different feelings around all that and it might be a dealbreaker or not for you.
I just now am figuring it out. I don't know what he knows or knew all along from the start but didn't tell me . . . I don't know if SHE knows or knew all along from the start but didn't tell me. Should I say something to her?

Why would it be a deal breaker for me? I'm not judgey of other people's kinks . . or are you thinking that I should be disturbed by being a part of it. I have stayed with her at their house . . when we are alone and even when he is there, but sleeping in another room. Is that odd? or just a part of the kink. We have all expressed no desires for all 3 of us to be together in bed.

Aren't you doing same here? Doing the "what the hell am I doing?" thing? Does it make you nervous hearing that she sometimes struggles because you were looking to her as hinge to provide the stability in this journey?
Yes, Yes, and Yes
From where I sit it doesn't sound terrible. Overall the group seems to be trying and sounds to be at about the right place for the age of the grouping -- a year in.
Awesome, thanks for your positive feedback here. It's not terrible . . I'm inexperienced and learning. I don't know what to expect and this forum does provide some good feedback and thoughts.
The point of dating her is not to bend yourself into pretzels around their marriage.
Agree. I don't get involved at all in their marriage.

Maybe this helps you?
Yes, this is all tremendously helpful for a rookie with no role model or any guidance. GalaGirl, you ask many good questions and they are thought provoking.

Thank You
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
Glad it helps you some.

You might consider creating your own stability and not looking to her to provide it.

I have stayed with her at their house . . when we are alone and even when he is there, but sleeping in another room. Is that odd? or just a part of the kink. We have all expressed no desires for all 3 of us to be together in bed.

No not odd.

And no. Having a partner spend the night in the other room is not necessarily part of hotwife kink. Sometimes it is just regular old poly life logistics.

And no. Group sex is not a requirement in poly.

I just now am figuring it out. I don't know what he knows or knew all along from the start but didn't tell me . . . I don't know if SHE knows or knew all along from the start but didn't tell me. Should I say something to her?

Why would it be a deal breaker for me?

How did you even find out about the hotwifing? From her? When was this disclosed? From the beginning or recently?

As for how it might be a dealbreaker...

If this is a journey of discovery for all of you and he's uncovered he might have a hotwife kink? Like... thinking about it turns him on and it ends there? You might not care and it might not be a dealbreaker.

If he was hoping she'd share sex with you and then come home and tell him all the real life things she did with you or you did to her... she might be up for that. But it is not only her information. Did YOU consent to her sharing TMI details between (you+her) with an outside party, her husband? Or did you find out she's been doing that all along without your knowing or consent? And you don't like it that your real private sex details are being used to turn him on? That might be a dealbreaker.

Or... DH knows you and her are partners. That part is real. And you all know anyway for sex health hygiene /safer sex practices. And he really doesn't want to know real TMI details. He wants her to go away on a date with you and then make up stuff for his arousal when she's back. So you feel ok enough with that since she isn't really sharing REAL things.... and her DH is ok with it because it's just fantasy whatever. What you really did was dinner, movie, sex. And she goes home and tells him you flew her to a Parisian circus and did it on a trapeze as one of the sex acts or whatever. You might not care about that.

Or... if you aren't into the hotwifing thing but they are... Is she gonna start picking up guys who DO agree that she can share real TMI details with her husband to get him off? Like... YOU aren't part it directly. But if you are going to be her poly BF... you need to know this is also part of her network of activities. Because this can impact your sex health hygiene/safer sex concerns. And now some of her time is going to be spent hotwifing... when you already don't get enough time with her. So there's going to be new time management concerns too. You might care about that.

Or... it's gonna play out for them like hothusbanding? He goes off with his other partners and comes home to tell wife whatever? And assuming that is all consensual across all parties over THERE on that side of the V and not really anything to do with you or changing anything for you on this side. You might not care about that.

Can you see how depending on how it actually is... the hotwife thing may or not be a dealbreaker to you? You may or may not care?

Galagirl
 
Last edited:

Electrons

New member
How did you even find out about the hotwifing? From her? When was this disclosed? From the beginning or recently?
She says . . . he does (or at least initially did) ask about the sexy details after our dates, but she does not tell TMI with any details beyond generic "we had sex".

I have not discussed with her to confirm, but all the evidence is there from what I've seen and been told by her and it seems very obvious from me once I put it all together. For example. . In a most recent conversation with her, I asked if he overheard us having sex the last time I was there. She said, he hadn't mentioned it but would ask if he did. She added that if he did overhear us, she would ask how he felt about it. . . Was it bad . . or did he enjoy it? I thought to myself . . enjoy it? Seriously? The conversation ended, but I that line stuck with me. Yesterday, I was explaining this situation (his seeing us together from the outset, his encouraging her for months, her wondering if he enjoyed overhearing us) to someone and they suggested that he is hotwifing. I looked it up and read about what it is and it's 100% aligned with my observations .

Should I ask her to confirm if this is what's going on? And if so . . . is she is aware of the kink? if he is aware? have they've discussed it? when did they know? and why I'm "figuring it out" and not already been told? If anything, the most dealbreakering is if it was known, but not disclosed from the beginning. . . I'm feeling a bit "used".

If he's straining to hear from another room, that's one thing . . but my mind goes to hidden baby monitor, perhaps video, perhaps he's outside their bedroom window peeking in? Now I've got all this in my mind to deal with too.
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
She says . . . he does (or at least initially did) ask about the sexy details after our dates, but she does not tell TMI with any details beyond generic "we had sex".

I have not discussed with her to confirm, but all the evidence is there from what I've seen and been told by her and it seems very obvious from me once I put it all together. For example. . In a most recent conversation with her, I asked if he overheard us having sex the last time I was there. She said, he hadn't mentioned it but would ask if he did. She added that if he did overhear us, she would ask how he felt about it. . . Was it bad . . or did he enjoy it? I thought to myself . . enjoy it? Seriously? The conversation ended, but I that line stuck with me. Yesterday, I was explaining this situation (his seeing us together from the outset, his encouraging her for months, her wondering if he enjoyed overhearing us) to someone and they suggested that he is hotwifing. I looked it up and read about what it is and it's 100% aligned with my observations .
You might be jumping to conclusions. Maybe he got off on it and masturbated, maybe he didn't. That's really his business and not yours. I'm sure he won't be the first person to get a frisson of pleasure from overhearing another couple going at it. That might not be his main goal, but just a side effect. If YOU feel grossed out to think he's enjoying overhearing you, you can request only to make love at your place, or at theirs when he's not there.
Should I ask her to confirm if this is what's going on? And if so . . . is she is aware of the kink? if he is aware? have they've discussed it? when did they know? and why I'm "figuring it out" and not already been told? If anything, the most dealbreakering is if it was known, but not disclosed from the beginning. . . I'm feeling a bit "used".
Again, it's not necessarily a kink. You could ask if that is their main goal, his or their shared sexual pleasure at him overhearing you making love to his wife. But there is another way to look at him "enjoying it." It could just be compersion, as in, "Oh, I love my wife and like knowing she is having fun with someone who appreciates her and treats her well."

I can enjoy hearing brief details of my gf's sexual or kink activities with her bf. I don't get off on them, per se. I just think of it as if she were taken out to lunch and a nice shopping trip by a beloved wealthy aunt or something lol. I kind of think of her bf as my brother, whom I care about and trust to take good care of my girl. I don't mistrust him or feel in competition with him. From what she tells me, he has her health and wellbeing at heart, and that's all I need to know.
If he's straining to hear from another room, that's one thing . . but my mind goes to hidden baby monitor, perhaps video, perhaps he's outside their bedroom window peeking in? Now I've got all this in my mind to deal with too.
Well, that is a bit of catastrophizing. If that were the case, you could run, as fast as you can. But is he really that creepy? Again, if you have EVIDENCE of any kind that there is a hidden listening device, either break up, or only make love at your place. You set your own boundaries for privacy. There has to be trust and respect in poly relationships, though. You may just be getting paranoid.
 
Top