Everything About Rooster

[Rooster]

At the time of typing this, I am a 42-year-old straight male with a wife, a son, and a daughter. I'm not even poly... or am I? My entire experience is so limited that I don't even know most of the acronyms (meta, dadt, etc., etc.). However, I will try to explain my history as well as I can.

My very first threeway was at the age of 20. It was with 2 girls I had dated in the past, each at different times. One night we ended up in the same place at the same time together and things just fell into place. We had a "spontaneous pleasure free-for-all," and luckily it was great sex with no repercussions. All 3 of us are still Facebook friends, but that's it. When I got to college, I spoke with classmates about their experiences, but most of them were stories of horrible experiences or destroyed relationships, which made me feel fortunate.

Now fast forward through life. I met my wife (KC). We had our son. My wife has a best friend at work (AR) that moved to the USA from Japan over a decade ago and after our son was born she started regularly babysitting for us. We all became very close, almost like she was family.

Sometime before my son’s 2nd birthday AR decided to move back "home" to Japan and we knew we would most likely never see her again after that. So my wife and AR start hanging out as much as possible before they lost each other. One evening, my wife approached me admitting that they were having desires for each other, and that AR also had enough comfort with me that she would be ok with a threeway. I was shocked, flattered, and excited, but I remembered the horror stories from college, which made me cautious. My wife only had 1 rule, "no penetrating AR," which I easily agreed to. However, that rule went out the window about halfway through the session, when my wife basically shoved me into her. We had amazing sex! I felt like the luckiest man on earth. There was emotion and passion, and everyone was satisfied.

Sadly, two days later, AR got on a jet and we have never seen her since. She is still on Facebook but almost never logs in.

Fast forward 3 more years, we have 2 kids by now, I'm 37. My wife’s birthday is next month, so I ask her for gift ideas. She said, "Well, I kinda wanna mess around with another girl again." I can't believe I was able to find someone in time, with only a month to set this "gift" up and actually pull it off, but I did. I found a willing mutual friend of ours (MW) and we made all the plans.

So the birthday night happens and things are going great. We all go out together and have a night on the town, everything seems to be running smooth. We get back home and at the last minute MW backs out and decides to sleep on the couch. Yes, my wife and I were both bummed, but that didn’t stop us from enjoying each other.

After that nothing really happened for several years. Once I hit 40 my libido started to drop off. We went from having sex 5 times a week, to 3 times, and then eventually 1 time, if that. I could tell it wasn't enough for her and she was also becoming depressed with the day-to-day motherhood rat race. I love her and adore her so much that it makes me feel bad when she's not happy, so I told her it was ok with me if she wanted to be with a girl, but not a guy. It is hypocritical, I know, and I own it. That's just how I feel from the gut and I can't change it.

I could almost see her eyes light up when I said it and she initiated the first serious conversation about it. We talked it over for a few days and made sure we were on the same page (a lot of details) and comfortable before she started searching for a partner.

She started using some apps to meet people and she would regularly leave in the evenings to go on dates. She mostly never told me about her nights, but over time she would tell me that things weren't working out like she had hoped. She had trouble finding someone compatible and told me she even ghosted a few girls who completely misrepresented themselves on their profiles.

Finally one night when she was out I got a text that things were going good and she would see me in the morning. I truly felt happy for her and honestly did not feel any jealousy at that time. I got a good night’s sleep. She came home that morning in a great mood, and the rest of the day went on as normal.

So things go on like this for a few weeks and because she has been happier it has really helped my happiness. It also helped her become "less shy" with me in the bedroom, which has been a nice unexpected benefit on my end. One day we had morning sex and that afternoon I asked her if she planned on being out all night tonight. She said "No, I don't sleep with 2 people in the same 24 hour period." That statement startled me for a few reasons.

1. She never cared in the past if we were together at the EXACT same time, so why now did she need a 24 hour buffer?

2. Am I ruining the plans of hers or her partners?

3. If this was a "rule," why wasn't it brought up beforehand when we hammered out all the other guidelines?

I started to try and pry, but she explained to me that I am the primary and I get "first dibs" (<-- her words, not mine) but after that was none of my business, and if she was getting it at home then that’s all she needed. I suddenly realized that the reason our threeway was different was because we all had some emotional connection to each other, our loveless birthday attempt never happened, and her new experiences (I assume) were only physical.

So as I started to make my drive to work these thoughts started running through my head. I will likely never meet her partners. I don't even know if she’s seeing the same girl, or if it's a different girl each time. For a second I questioned if she would leave me for a woman, but it was an irrational thought. I know she loves me and the kids more than anything. However it was the first time I felt “not ok." I felt weird about possible STDs, but I know she is an intelligent responsible person.

I started searching Google for my own "mental stability" and it frequently referred me back to this particular message board. So I bookmarked it and regularly browsed for answers or self-validation over the last few months. I feel like I’m on the outside looking in. I don’t feel the need to date or be with anyone more than just her. I'm trying to see things from her side, and letting her do this has helped our marriage and sex life. In fact we are back up to 3 times a week as I type these lines.

The thing is, in my circle of friends and community there really are no people other than my wife who I can talk to about these things. My manager at work and his wife swing, but the man is such an obnoxious pervert I really don’t want to discus any of my personal life with him. One day when I opened up Chrome it was already on this site's homepage, and he saw it flash on my screen and asked, “Hey, are you guys open?” almost enthusiastically. The question rocked me. I felt it was awkward and secondly, I really don’t know the correct answer.

 

[3908]

Welcome to the board. Thank you for sharing your story. I'm not exactly in your place, but if my wife wanted a girlfriend or a boyfriend I would be ok with it. I would like to date other women as secondaries, and my wife as the primary.

There are others on this board with far more experience that should be around to comment on your post.

 

[Magdlyn]

That is an interesting story. I hope you continue to post and get support here.

It seems your wife is playing her cards really close to her chest, for some reason. It's more like a "don't ask don't tell" situation that she is choosing. She doesn't even want to tell you the name of whom she is dating, whether it is one other woman, or more than one.

I can see that in your 3way experience, it was all shared, so there was less distance she felt she wanted between you and the other person. But now she is dating independently. It's not unusual that she wishes to have some physical and emotional space between a date with someone else and sharing sex with you. It doesn't sound like a "rule" that you have to follow. It's just a personal boundary she decided worked best for her own mental health. I'd say it doesn't really concern you, other than that it gives you some insight into how she is handling being poly.

As for your second concern, why are you questioning whether you are "ruining" something? She seems to be doing fine.

And for #3, it's not possible to "hammer out" everything in advance. The 24 hour boundary is something she came up with as her experiences broadened. You seem to feel disturbed by it. Do you know why?

All that said, if you want more details about her dating schedule, or maybe even want to know the name of her lover(s), it's OK to ask. Even in very parallel relationship structures, it can be nice to know where one's partner is, just in case of emergencies. If something happened to her while she was away, it would be nice to have her OSO's name and phone number, and for them to have yours.

One question I have is, you said your lowered libido was what caused the drop in the frequency of sex you had with Wife. So what has changed with your libido? Are you feeling like you want to sort of "reclaim" her sexually now that she is having sex with others? There's nothing wrong with that.

Why do you say she was "shy" with you sexually, when before you said her libido was higher than yours, and that was why you agreed to Open the relationship? I'm not asking you to "blame" yourself or her for the lack of frequency, I just don't quite understand the dynamic.

 

[Rooster]

And for #3, it's not possible to "hammer out" everything in advance. The 24 hour boundary is something she came up with as her experiences broadened. You seem to feel disturbed by it. Do you know why?

I think it bugged me because I feel like its a significantly-sized detail that was left out until it affected something, and then was brought out in the open. In itself it's not a big deal, but its just the sensation of being left in the dark that's started to trigger me.

One question I have is, you said your lowered libido was what caused the drop in the frequency of sex you had with Wife. So what has changed with your libido? Are you feeling like you want to sort of "reclaim" her sexually now that she is having sex with others? There's nothing wrong with that.

I think we slowed way down because of added stress, life got boring, my overall energy was way down and we were both stuck in a perpetual state of "gloom." Now for the double-edged sword-- once we started doing this she really pulled out of the gloom and it brought a new spark to her. It had a trickle-down effect and the entire household seems happier, which in turn puts me in a better mood more frequently. Also...

Why do you say she was "shy" with you sexually, when before you said her libido was higher than yours, and that was why you agreed to Open the relationship? I'm not asking you to "blame" yourself or her for the lack of frequency, I just don't quite understand the dynamic.

Specifically, she was never ever into anal play before this. Now we are taking "baby steps," which is arousing me more often.

It seems your wife is playing her cards really close to her chest, for some reason. It's more like a "don't ask don't tell" situation that she is choosing. She doesn't even want to tell you the name of whom she is dating, whether it is one other woman, or more than one.

If I'm going to stop lying to myself... I do think it's the same girl. It would be stupid of me to believe she is "connecting" with a different girl each time, especially after how difficult it was for her to initially hook up. I just don't want her to ever love anyone stronger than she loves me, and now my subconscious tells me that IS a possibility and I'm the one who opened the flood gates. I should have no reason to be scared, but...

Typing out my timeline is helping me see that back when AR was around I had the drive and probably could have made a triangle work (heck, we were almost there), but with the way things happened I never got a chance to fully explore that side of myself. My wife and I “dabbled” in it, but now I’m in a real situation that is really happening and I knew I would not be invited this time, nor do I want to be. I trust her 100%, I really do, but that doesn't stop these "flash fears" from happening. And I don't feel like I fit in here, but this as close as it gets to "safe place to talk" for someone like me. Just getting these thoughts written down is helping my brain relax. I suppose that’s why I prefer the anonymous nature of the internet. This whole ordeal has sent me so far up and so far down…

Thank you for listening.

 

[Magdlyn]

You do fit in here, don't worry. We get lots of mono partners of poly people here. I've dated guys who were monogamous to poly me. My nesting partner has a mono bf. It is quite common. But you still have fears and concerns, and they are valid. I am glad that airing them out is helping.

 

[Rooster]

I've had several major realizations over the last few days, but in order for me to unpack them here I need to go a little more in depth about my wife, KC.

I'm not proud of this next paragraph... The way we got together is, I stole her from one of my friends (CM). I became good friends with her boyfriend (CM), to the point where she just started coming to my house after work because that's where CM was going to be. CM and I worked together and hung out after work together. She liked me and I didn't know it and I liked her and she didn't know it.

Now this next part I did not learn about until recently. So CM wants to start seeing another guy, and it turns out KC hates that guy. When that started up she started hanging out with me on her own, but she would say she just wanted someone to smoke a bowl with. After we admitted our feelings to each other, she left CM and we started dating almost immediately.

She is very unique and can best be described as a tomboy with liberal views. But the tricky thing is once she starts getting angry she completely shuts down and goes into silent mode. I now believe she has always been poly, but never defined that way because it was labeled as bisexual, kinda "masked" or lumped, in so to speak. A feeling I think she curbed when we got together, either for my sake, or because that's what society says we are supposed to do.

When I think about the odd little details of the past they make more sense now. So that's why, when I "cracked the door" on this idea, she flung it the rest of the way open. Where I was ignorantly thinking this was more sex-related, I now understand she is seeing it as finally being free to be who she is. She has given me the same permission, but I don't have the time or the energy for that shit LOL. But it is nice to know I'm free to pursue if I so choose.

But her personality is not capable of casual sex. KC requires an emotional connection before she can sleep with someone. That is a point that I totally missed because I don't have that prerequisite. My brain dose not have that filter. <-- Wow, I feel like a douche.

Now I'm new to the lingo, so please correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think what we are aiming for is a hierarchy parallel V right now, only because we have kids. Hierarchy meaning I am treated of higher importance, and parallel as she does not want me or her other interest interacting with each other at all?

Now I get why she is remaining so vague at this time. She is playing the field right now and there is no reason to drag my emotions through the mud as well, if the girlfriends not going to work out anyway. She has assured me that if she finds someone to "take to the next level" we will be introduced.

 

[kdt26417]

No need to correct your lingo, you are understanding the words V, parallel, and hierarchical correctly. Carry on.

 

[Rooster]

I'm in a much better state of mind today. Things have been going smooth. I did have a bout of anxiety on Thursday but I don't think I'll go into that right now.

The biggest update is the necklace KC is wearing. There are 2 pendants, one represents me, the other represents her g.f. (<-my meta if I'm understanding correctly). If the other pendant comes off or changes I will know what's going on without having to "know what's going on". So hopefully this can avoid some touchy questions.

She sometimes tells me about situations that happened when she was out and I've gotten a few details about meta from those conversations. I know she has glasses and tattoos. It kinda seems invasive of me to try and fish for information, but sometimes I just wanna know who's fucking my wife. Is that too much to ask?

Seems like there has been some wishy-washy attitudes on both of our ends. But things are good at the moment. I like hearing her sing when she cooks. I like the random hugs out of nowhere.

 

[kdt26417]

Yes, meta (or metamour) is the right word.

And it is not unreasonable to ask about your meta. Naturally you are curious.

 

[Rooster]

Well, everything has been a little misaligned lately. KC noticed my new vocabulary and asked, "Hmm, what have you been browsing?" I kinda want to show her this forum, but on the other hand I don't. In real life I can only talk to her about these things and there is nobody else I feel comfortable with. In here I can talk about her (and I do) and I don't really want to lose that freedom. As selfish as it sounds, I found it can be therapeutic at times.

The word of this week is "compersion," which I had seen around quite a bit and just assumed I understood what it meant. Then when kdt26417 mentioned it in my other thread I decided to actually research the definition. As I started reading I realized OMG this is exactly what it is! and it's so real that there's actually a word for it. Also I have to say the other thread is pleasantly not going the way I was expecting. I was bracing to defend/explain my OPP and such, but so far the questions have been mild and seem to more about genuine interest.

I have been having an internal struggle though, based off of a small comment from KC. Earlier this week I took her out to get a bar burger at the tavern. We were sort of teasing each other with playful banter, and at some point she mentioned she had a secret kink that she would never tell. At first I thought "OK, fair enough," but then she said "Besides, you're not capable." I knew I should have just left it alone, but curiosity was getting strong;
Me: I'm not capable? Does it involve other guys?
KC: No
Me: Does it require a vagina?
KC: No
Me: Am I not big enough, strong enough?
KC: No
Me: So it's something you think I'm mentally not capable of?
KC: We've been together this long and I haven't told you, and I never will.

Well, this doesn't sit right with me. Even if she is correct, there is no way she could pre-decide what I am capable of. I have always been more open to ideas in the bedroom than she has. In fact, I'm 20% vanilla mood, 80% kink mood and KC is 80% vanilla mood, 20% kink mood. So we do the husband and wife compromise and go 80% vanilla 20% kink. I always try to get her to open up about what she wants, but sometimes it seems like she is still embarrassed to tell me certain things, even though we can finish each other's sentences or know what the other is thinking with just eye contact.

I know I cannot press the issue on her because essentially it is my issue. There is no reason for me to need to know except for the fact that if she is wrong she is missing an opportunity to live out a fantasy or have great sex. If she is right, well at least I would feel better knowing, and I feel like we should be able to share anything with each other. I mean if she ever directly asked me anything I would answer her, even if it caused a loss of respect. Oh well, just a little twinge I will have to squash.

Now it's time for me to give a huge thank you to this forum. Coming here and being able to lay everything out on the table has helped me move through issues much quicker than when I was just dwelling on them in my own head. For the most part, the members here are really good with sensitive topics and genuinely empathetic. I appreciate you all.

 

[3908]

when I was first learning info about Compersion, I realized that i could have that for my wife, enjoying knowing she's being enjoyed by someone else. she's very much not interested in dating another man or woman. I explained Compersion to her at one point last year but she didn't get it.

 

[Rooster]

when I was first learning info about Compersion, I realized that i could have that for my wife, enjoying knowing she's being enjoyed by someone else. she's very much not interested in dating another man or woman. I explained Compersion to her at one point last year but she didn't get it.

Yea I think if you don't have it then it would be almost impossible to understand.

 

[Rooster]

Well KC is out with meta tonight. She usually goes out once every weekend and sometimes a weekday here or there. Nothing major has happened lately. She was bummed the other day because we found a Dodge Charger that was a good deal but somebody else beat us to it.

I’ve been trying to think up ways to plant mental seeds that would get her to open up with me a little more. I need to think of some statements that would get her to ask herself the questions instead of me asking and starting an argument. If that make sense.

My biggest questions are “Is this a V an N, an M..?” and “Who is she?” I can’t even give her a nickname. Right now she is just a Fordite pendant on a necklace to me. Somehow that phantom brings KC so much joy though.

I feel like there is more that I wanted to write but sort of having a block right now.

 

[kdt26417]

Perhaps you could say, "I don't mean to upset you, I am just eager to know more about this person who has brought so much joy in your life."

 

[Rooster]

Well, some things did happen this weekend, I found out a little more about meta. On Friday KC was being very argumentative with me. Everything I said was wrong in her mind, no matter what. Then on Saturday she was a complete .... well, she was straight-up mean. So as soon as we got some privacy from the kids I asked her "What did I do? Why are you so pissed at me?" That's when she started to break down and said "It's misdirected anger."

Then KC told me things might not be going so good with her other. She told me meta is 100% lesbian, but "cool with open relationships," however, she is not happy KC is married to a man, but is "tolerating" it because they like each other so much. Hearing it made me feel sick. I don't want to be an obstacle in front of her happiness. So I asked her if this situation was stumping their relationship progress, and that's when KC started to turn defensive and said she really didn't want me involved right now. So I said "When you come home and treat me like shit I'm already involuntarily involved," and that caused a day of distant quietness from KC.

I spent a couple days browsing the forums and searching for similar situations, trying to figure out if there is anything I should be doing right now as far as "damage control" or ways to help with this. Everything circles back to "communication," and ours is poor at best. A lot of the threads I found were stories that really pull at my strings. I feel so bad for some of these people and I just have this urge to help, or at least provide some comfort, but I feel inept because I can't.

It's so strange that I came here because I was afraid of KC falling in love with someone other than me, and now I don't wanna prevent her from loving someone other than me. It seems like I should be glad this is happening, but instead I'm sort of upset. This isn't how I wanted to learn these details, but at least I know more than I did.

Now the only thing I can do is "ride it out." I'll just stay ready for emotional support if she ever needs it or decides to accept it.

 

[LoveBunny]

Hi Rooster,

I can absolutely understand why you'd find it troubling that you know nothing of this other person who apparently holds enough importance to your wife that she wears a pendant just like the one she wears to represent you.

I was also troubled when my partner had a secondary who I didn't know at all. I've often wondered if she'd seem less threatening if I met her. Maybe she's not as hot as my imagination makes her, lol.

It made me feel like his life with me was compartmentalized. He brings me around his family, friends, home, but there was this big part of his life into which I was never introduced, let alone integrated. I felt as if I didn't even exist while he was with her, as they certainly didn't talk about me either. I understand, theoretically, that I shouldn't be bothered that he wasn't thinking or talking about me.... But all the little things he didn't tell me (I didn't want to know) about her are really the only things he and and I don't talk about. I've often thought I might be screwing myself out of deeply getting to know him by not wanted to know any details, though I kept that boundary to protect their privacy and my sanity.

This situation of when your wife was short with you because she was mad at her gf, I've been on both sides of that. I call it "poly bleed-through." It's like the flip side of compersion. I really wonder how much of being a good hinge relies on a great deal of compartmentalization. It definitely helps to have a spouse that's super-supportive and understands if your other relationship bleeds over. Last time it happened to me (boyfriend cancelled plans with me because his secondary dumped him) I took it very personally.

I don't think you should feel like you're holding your wife back just because her gf wishes you didn't exist. Your wife CHOOSES you, and you have every right to your relationship with her. I hope you keep writing!

 

[under_moonlight]

Hi Rooster,

Yeah, communication is key, but it's something that can be really difficult to just start doing out of the blue. What's nice is once you do build up those skills they can be useful to have, even outside of this situation.

As for not knowing your meta, I was surprised when I started reading more in these forums and elsewhere on how common that can be. I was feeling very self conscious about not knowing a lot about my meta until I saw how often it can happen. Still, logically understanding that it happens and there are usually benign reasons for it does not make it any easier on the emotions.

As for holding her back, I think that you are really trying your best, from what I've read so far. A lot of people would have gotten caught up on some things that you seem to be able to work through on your own, despite not having the communication you desire. The trust alone you have in your wife is giving her the space she needs to work through whatever she's going through. And with how she's reacted so far, I think you're on the right path of just letting her know you're there for her when she needs you.

Moon

 

[icesong]

So there are sort of two separate points here, as I see it - one is the compartmentalization, and the other is this meta in particular.

Your wife is giving you both the worst parts of parallel AND kitchen table polyamory, in some ways - you're having to deal with her moods in terms of things her partner says BUT you also don't have any good relationship with the meta to reassure you that this is just a blip in their relationship rather than The Way It Is. I barely know my metas via Artist - we've hung out at parties or had dinner a few times, but we're not any closer than acquaintances, really. But Artist also insulates me *very* well, in almost all cases, from any issues that he may have with his other partners - I only know about them from the point of view of caring what's going on with him as an important person in my life. Your wife is both not protecting you from fallout AND not telling you anything, which is awkward as heck.

And I'd be pretty uncomfortable with a meta who wasn't thrilled that her new partner was married to a man - I mean, she knew this when they started a relationship, I assume...

 

[Rooster]

BUT you also don't have any good relationship with the meta to reassure you that this is just a blip in their relationship rather than The Way It Is.

This is the huge issue I've been mulling over in my head. I wonder if we met if I could ease her concerns, or would it make things worse?

I mean, she knew this when they started a relationship, I assume...

She had to have known. I know all that information was on her dating profiles, so if they met through an app she would have known right away. If they just met IRL I'm sure KC would have made it explicitly clear from the start. I just can't come out and ask her that right now because things are a little rocky at the moment (between KC and me) and I don't wanna push boundaries. Still though, props to meta for giving it a chance.

Since KC is out with meta right now, I'm going to assume its a blip. But KC is ticked at me for a different issue this time, so maybe she's just going to meta to get away from me.

KC only has about 5 month's experience being a hinge and I know we are going to have to learn from a lot of mistakes. Heck, when we started I didn't even know the term hinge. I frequently think about how we did everything the most wrong way you could possibly do it, as far as opening up. However it has not been a complete train wreck. We are learning as we go and making our way the "right way" for us.

From The Most Skipped Step:

"You’ve had hundreds of hours of discussions on what your open relationship will look like? Check!"
* if by "hundreds" you mean around 20, Check!

"You’ve written down a list of limits, boundaries, rules, and expectations? Check!"
* if by "written down" you mean verbal, Check!

"You’ve created dating profiles that honestly detail what you are looking for and the honesty with your existing relationship? Check!"
* we did nail this one.

"You’ve read at least 3 books together on the topic of nonmonogamy? Check?"
* oh there are books about it?

"You and your partner subscribe and listen to at least 3 nonmonogamous friendly podcasts? Check!"
* 0, Check!

Today she is mad at me for purchasing over-the-counter pills instead of making a doctor appointment. I've had some minor health issues and each time I go to the doctor it's $600-$3000 out of pocket with no improvement. So yeah, I'm kinda sick of wasting money on it. She says I'm wasting money on the pills. If the pills work (remains to be seen) is it a waste?

Sorry for sounding bitchy today.

 

[Evie]

I wonder if we met if I could ease her concerns, or would it make things worse?

I doubt you'd ease them because they probably aren't "concerns" - they are issues around her identity and core beliefs about who she shares sex with. By extension, she is now fluid bonded with a man through KC. This is probably very uncomfortable for her as a lesbian.

You really can't do anything to fix this.

I hope those over the counter pills work. We spent so much trying to get Adam a medicated nail remedy and then Puck tells me that he had perfect success with a mixture of olive oil (as a carrier) and ti/tea tree oil!

As for sounding bitchy... that's the beauty of a blog. Let it all out here and then be more chill when doing the actual human interactions.