Greetings all. Hola, Nihao, Aloha…

ExpatAmor

New member
Greetings all,

I am 42M, married to 39F for almost 7 years. We have 2 beautiful young children. I have lived and worked in different counties for most of my adult life, over 15 years. A couple months ago, my wife brought up the idea of having an open marriage. I’ve read many articles online, started ‘Opening Up’, and browsed the discussion board here. I am here to learn more about polyamory in general and the reality of different individuals’ situations.

To be honest, I am still struggling with the proposal. My wife and I love each, but there is an emotional disconnect. Our children are 2 and 4. While parenting is rewarding, this is not an easy stage. We currently have a low sex marriage, usually only about once a month. We are currently doing couple’s therapy and have for most of the last couple years. We realize that both of our needs are not currently being met.

While I understand and respect those who choose this lifestyle, I am not sure it is for me. My wife’s reasons for wanting to be poly are consistent with what I have been learning, like she doesn’t think one person can or should have to meet all her needs. She feels like part of her is dying and she is going crazy. She feels like opening our relationship will keep her sane. I sincerely hope to keep an open mind as I learn more about it. From what I have read here so far, it is a genuinely supportive community. I feel fortunate to have found it and look forward to learning from the collective experiences and wisdom here.
 
I'm going to keep this succinct, blunt even. That's just me 🙃

This sounds like she (and maybe you) are a little exhausted by being parents and being absolutely everything to each other and your kids right now. They are pretty young and highly dependent. One way to do this is to give each other a "night off" - she goes and poly dates or whatever. You also get a "night off" (fairness and all that) where you go and do whatever the fuck you want. A hobby, take yourself to the movies, or you also poly date. It may be a night a week or a night a fortnight (2 weeks) but it sounds like she, and maybe you, just need time to connect to people outside the home.

Also, plan for a night with a sitter at least once a month and go on your own dates. Together.

I sincerely doubt she actually wants out of your relationship or marriage or parenthood, but you guys are slightly older parents, you were used to doing your own things. I bet she misses that. I would. And meeting people (who aren't parents). And hanging with guys (was she ever a "tomboy"?) I'm probably projecting without actually being a mother, but she probably misses OTHER people.
 
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Thanks for the reply Evie. My wife has expressed that she doesn’t want to divorce. Thanks for the suggestions, but I am still really hesitant about opening our relationship.

Which reminds me… There is one pretty big detail that I forgot to mention in the first post. She just finished the first trimester. She is currently pregnant with our third. It was really odd to me that she first asked to open our marriage when we knew she was about a month pregnant. It’s was a shock to me to initially hear.

She was going out with friends a lot before, staying out on weekends until the bars and clubs closed at around 5AM. I wasn’t comfortable with that even before we had discussed opening up. She felt like I was trying to control her by setting boundaries like checking in. Now she wants more freedom, but we have a year or more to consider it as it isn’t something that can even happen given the pregnancy. I do appreciate that she is being honest about her desires and didn’t resort to infidelity. It is a strange position to be in. I really don’t want to divorce, but I’m just not sure if this way of life would work for me. Again, I’ll appreciate any advice, perspectives, or suggestions you think might be helpful.
 
Welcome.

I mean all this kindly, ok?

She's being honest. I think you could be honest back. That you struggle with the proposal. That you understand and respect those who choose this lifestyle. That you aren't sure it is for you. So you have to have some time to think on it. It is ok to be hesitant. It's ok to ask for more time to consider.

You could read things.



Books like Opening Up.

It's also ok to consider and still say "Thank you for giving me time. I've read and considered. No, thanks. This isn't for me."

Because maybe it's just a dealbreaker for you. This wasn't "the original deal" when you got married. So maybe that deal is done for you. And this new deal being presented? You are gonna pass.

Deciding to open a marriage is not like "add a third" or whatever. It's deliberately breaking up (even if not legally.) Disbanding the old relationship model. In favor of a new one.

What kind of open model is she even suggesting?

Whatever it is? You have to do your own soul searching. Because if you aren't sure this is for you? You can do two things.
  • Say "No, thanks" because "I'm not sure, I'm hesitant" is not "joyful yes" consent to me. You can skip all the side trip stuff because you already know your own self and this is not for you.
  • Say "I'm not sure, but willing to try to see if I'm actually able. "
    • And it goes ok and you carry on.
    • It goes kinda "meh" on your end. Then you have to decide if all the work is worth it or if you prefer a simpler life. Because let's face it -- more people, more variables? Means more people, more variables. More schedules to juggle, more intensity, more emotions, just MORE.
    • It goes super bad and you bow out.
Not trying to be mean. Just saying... be realistic.

We are currently doing couple’s therapy and have for most of the last couple years. We realize that both of our needs are not currently being met.

Why are you doing couple's therapy? Are you both meeting those goals? Are you trying to open up from strong foundations or are things shaky here already? Because open/poly has a way of shining a light on all the cracks.

How is your life balance here? Do you each have meaningful work and/or volunteering? Do you each have meaningful relationships with family and friends? Is the parenting load balanced? Are you all in good health?

Sometimes I've seen people trying to do poly like a "bandaid" when there's marriage problems. So they can move on to other partners while avoiding getting a divorce. But poly's not supposed to be like a "crutch" to help you "endure" marriage. Or like a "soft exit" to line up a new partner before dumping the old one.

Our children are 2 and 4.

She just finished the first trimester. She is currently pregnant with our third. It was really odd to me that she first asked to open our marriage when we knew she was about a month pregnant. It’s was a shock to me to initially hear.

Kids at 4, 2, and pregnant? That's a lot. Does she regret becoming a mother? Or a mother to so many? Is she trying to "escape" the pressures of children/parenting?

I know everyone is different. But for me? If poly partners weren't here before kids, they weren't gonna be til active parenting was done. I'm getting close to that, and GLAD because it's been a long run of parenting. I'm looking forward to empty nest. But I don't regret providing stability in the home for children.

Which includes skipping kids being bothered or bullied at school because of parent decisions (ex: your parents are weird, your mom's a slut, etc) or nosy parker relatives (ex: grandparents) mad about the poly trying to wrest child custody away. Sometimes people don't even think ahead to that. They just imagine some kind of kumbaya thing happening.

My wife’s reasons for wanting to be poly are consistent with what I have been learning, like she doesn’t think one person can or should have to meet all her needs. She feels like part of her is dying and she is going crazy. She feels like opening our relationship will keep her sane.

Maybe.

Or... it's ANOTHER energy drain. Because dating takes time and effort, and then if you do make connections? Here's this other person to attend to now.

Or it keeps her sane... and makes you crazy. Then what?

Or it works out just fine.

These are things you have to talk about calmly though and really think. Because you cannot predict the outcome.

She was going out with friends a lot before, staying out on weekends until the bars and clubs closed at around 5AM. I wasn’t comfortable with that even before we had discussed opening up. She felt like I was trying to control her by setting boundaries like checking in.

Like all the time? Cuz once in a while is one thing. But staying out late all the time leaving you to do all the night parenting is another.

Why's it a big a deal to her to put her stuff on a google calendar or leave a note on the fridge for where she'll be and when to expect her home? Text or call if running late? Does she want to behave like she's a free agent?

How's that gonna work with multiple partners? Cuz calendar and time management can be pretty vital in open/poly.

I really don’t want to divorce, but I’m just not sure if this way of life would work for me. Again, I’ll appreciate any advice, perspectives, or suggestions you think might be helpful.

If people go boating, they usually have life preservers. Nobody WANTS to fall out of the boat. But best to plan ahead to have them and not need, right?

You are responsible for your own emergency preparedness.

So even if neither of you wants a divorce? I think you could talk it over anyway. What do we do if we go there, and then things go wahoonie? Then what?

I find people who can talk that out calmly do better at staying together or have better partings. Because they don't wait til the shit hits the fan to finally make the emergency plan.

If you do decide to give this a try? Best to have your divorce plan, some of the finances separated, agreements about the children, common property, etc. already settled. Because you just can't know how it will turn out ahead of time.

Maybe you make the plan and it is never needed. It just gives you some peace of mind while making the foray into open/poly.

But if it ends up a mess and you do need it? Well, it's made already. And don't have to go into all that with hot heads or upset or revenge-y like some divorcing people do. You spare yourselves that much at least.

Def think about the load.

Because if deep down you don't want to go there? Don't.

Divorce sucks, and that is already a load.

But to try on poly just to avoid breaking up? That's not a good reason to poly. And then it's like doing double load when it could have been single load. YKWIM?

I suggest you do your soul searching and then have the conversation you need to be having with your wife.

Galagirl
 
Thanks for taking your time with the honest feedback GalaGirl. I do really appreciate it. Your response brings up a lot of important issues to consider. Again, I respect everyone’s decision to choose to live the way that works best for them. The majority of new posters here are excited about the new possibilities poly presents. I realize that I am skeptical at this point, but I sincerely want to learn more. In other words, it isn’t an outright dealbreaker.

I’ve been completely honest with my wife that I am struggling with the idea. We’ve done therapy mainly for different communication issues in the past, but we’re focusing on this now and the underlying reasons. We haven’t discussed how it would actually look other than no more than one night a week, home by morning, DADT.

I understand that I have to really think, some soul searching and careful reflection about if this could work for me or not. I may be able to get to that point of being willing to give it a try, but I know that our relationship currently needs work either way. We need a more solid foundation if we want to have a successful marriage, open or not. Opening is not going to fix the problems we have now.

I am the only one working now as she stays home with our young children. We are both teachers and met abroad. She doesn’t regret having children at all and neither do I. We’re both active and healthy overall. We both keep in touch with our families (we currently live in a medium size city in China). She’s better about staying in touch with friends. She is much more social than me and is more into the local nightlife scene. She was going out once, maybe twice a week once summer started.

I don’t want to divorce, especially with the kids. I hear what you are saying and it is a good idea to plan ahead in case things don’t work out. It almost feels like an ultimatum—open the relationship or divorce. I realize that this is not a good way to go into it and I don’t want to feel coerced. I am worried about how I’d deal with jealousy. That poly hell link is helpful to consider the feelings that will likely come up. These are probably common concerns going in for many and I’d like to hear what helps others overcome these things. It’s good to as realistic as possible about all the changes poly would mean. I want to see it from a healthy, honest view. Thanks again for all the information and advise.
 
Greetings ExpatAmor,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.
Here's a few more links/resources that might help you:
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
It almost feels like an ultimatum—open the relationship or divorce. I realize that this is not a good way to go into it and I don’t want to feel coerced.

What do you mean? Could you please be willing to clarify?

Because above you say neither nor you wife wants a divorce. So are you now saying your wife IS pressuring you like "Do this or else I dump you?" So you are feeling coerced?

Galagirl
 
Thanks for the welcome and all the links Kevin. Fortunately, I have some time to really look into this and consider how it may work out depending on what we decide.

@GalaGirl —She is asking to change the foundational agreement of our marriage, the original deal. She has said that if we don’t open our relationship she may just eventually cheat anyway. Poly feels right to her, but I am still not sure. I don’t want to divorce, but I don’t know if it’d work for me. Our connection isn’t strong enough now. If she were to have another relationship, I don’t think I’d feel like the primary partner. I hope that makes sense and clarifies why it feels like an ultimatum.
 
She is asking to change the foundational agreement of our marriage, the original deal. She has said that if we don’t open our relationship she may just eventually cheat anyway.

I'm a stranger. I don't have the emotional involvement you do. So in some ways it's easier for me to stay calm. When I read that I thought "Thanks for honesty, I guess. But if this is your new character, how does ExpatAmor know you wouldn't cheat on poly agreements then? Because it's not like poly is magic or something. People can cheat on poly agreements too."

I mean you could try it and see, but if you ALREADY know this isn't your thing, why bother?

It's not like you are going to say "Well, I want to prevent you cheating on our monogamous agreements, so let's do this poly thing I don't really want to do." Are you?

Poly feels right to her, but I am still not sure.

It's ok to not be sure. People don't get married or divorced on a whim like they go "Let's have ice cream!"

By when would she like an answer? If she wants it RIGHT NOW? And right now you are hesitant, unsure and feeling pressure? That's already a load. It's NOT a joyful yes.

Could skip whatever unknown bonus load and say "No, thank you. I don't want to do wonky poly. I think we could either do a trial separation for a year or skip that part and just divorce."

Then she is free TO pursue poly things she wants. And you are free FROM poly things you do not want.

I don’t want to divorce, but I don’t know if it’d work for me. Our connection isn’t strong enough now. If she were to have another relationship, I don’t think I’d feel like the primary partner. I hope that makes sense and clarifies why it feels like an ultimatum.

I know you don't want to separate or get a divorce. But at the same time? This isn't sounding like "joyful yes" and you say the connection isn't strong enough now. Sounds like a recipe for major poly hell.

Just because two people have been married monogamously, doesn't make them automatically compatible for poly with each other. They may have different ways of doing open/poly.

Sometimes there's surprises too. Like the one who wanted to go there discovers they aren't good at it and wants to close back up. But then the reluctant partner discovered new partner(s) they get on well with, they are good at it, and now THEY are the ones who don't want to go back. Nobody can predict the future.

All you can do is assess your own
  • preferences for how you want your romances (is poly even on the list?)
  • current desire / willingness to do poly
  • ability to do do poly
  • and current information.
Maybe you just thank her for being honest and tell her honestly back "I'm not excited about that. This isn't the original marriage deal. I'm not going to stop you, but I can't follow you there. So best we do a trial separation or divorce before you undertake that journey."

Sigh. Not a fun thing to contemplate, but you also can't go bending yourself into pretzels for her just to keep this relationship going. It's sounding like (not that strong a marriage). And swapping it out for (wonky poly that you are not excited about doing)?

That's NOT a great sounding deal for you. It's ok to pass on that deal.

You have to be able to say to a partner "No. I love you. But not even for you will I do stuff that I don't really want to do or stuff that hurts me."

Galagirl
 
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By when would she like an answer? If she wants it RIGHT NOW? And right now you are hesitant, unsure and feeling pressure? That's already a load. It's NOT a joyful yes.
She’s pregnant now, just started the second trimester, about 15 weeks. This means it’s pretty much a year until she could even begin seeing others. There is no urgency for an answer now. She said she’d been thinking about it for several months before she became pregnant. (Note: we were intimate during her window of conception. So yeah, it’s mine.) This strikes me as odd. An expecting mother already planning to transition to poly shortly after giving birth when she’ll have an infant at home. Has anyone experienced or even heard of a situation like this?
I mean you could try it and see, but if you ALREADY know this isn't your thing, why bother?
I hope I don’t come across as 100% opposed to poly for myself. I’m trying to really see if it could work for us. I am not naturally drawn to it, but I definitely don’t believe in the one soulmate myth. As you also said, there can be surprises and the initially reluctant partner can be more into it later. I do see this as a possibility. I realize that my marriage needs work, whether it is open or not.

I do foresee jealousy being an issue, probably for both of us. To be honest, at this point the negatives of my wife being with another man/men outweigh the positives of me having a relationship with another woman/women. If we were dating, this would be easy. Having a family adds another dimension that makes giving poly a try a reasonable consideration.

Thank you so much GalaGirl. I’ve read dozens of articles online about different aspects of poly relationships. I would read and try to think about how my situation related to the stories/ material. Finding a place like this really helps to get real, genuine feedback specific to my given circumstances. I truly appreciate you taking the time with your honest advice and insights, even if they are at times hard truths to accept. It’s important to be realistic and have a clear understanding of what the future may hold.
 
I personally haven't encountered anyone looking to open their marriage to poly or anything else when there are infants or even young children. But this is a good way to have a decent lead in time doing the conversations and work on your marriage before the practical issues arise.

I'd be curious to know precisely what she envisions. Just because we all say "poly" doesn't mean we all do it the same way. Has she been explicit about what she would and wouldn't want from this? When Adam and I opened our marriage after being closed for a while, I was absolutely firm that I (as the fertile, probably, one) did NOT want to have a baby with someone else. Furthermore, while I would consider cohabiting with a metamour, I also would not cohabit with dependents.

What does she want? What doesn't she want?
 
I personally haven't encountered anyone looking to open their marriage to poly or anything else when there are infants or even young children.
I sort of did exactly this? I mean, Knight and I weren’t _mono_ before we were parents, but we also didn’t date separately… then we did do the closed-while-pregnant thing and decided to see other people when kiddo was about 18 months. Whether that was the best plan or not, I still don’t know - there were definite pluses and minuses to the timing. But I don’t necessarily believe that it’s a truly bad idea to the degree that some other people do.

That said, it really doesn’t sound like it’s a great idea for ExpatAmor and his wife as a couple, from everything else going on in their lives. I mean, I’d probably _try_ poly with the expectation that it’ll fail before I’d just leave, but I’m stubborn like that and it has the potential for completely screwing up your coparenting relationship which needs to last for at least the next 19 years…
 
What does she want? What doesn't she want?
We have barely discussed the parameters as I am not sure I am okay with it in general. DADT, no more than one night a week, home by morning, nobody we know, keep it discreet. She wants the freedoms to meet others and see where it goes. I’d be able to do the same.

Again, it’s really strange to me that poly was first proposed when we already knew she was pregnant. And this will be our third child together. We’d be going from completely monogamous to consensual non-monogamy. From what I’ve been reading, a couple needs to have a strong foundation with excellent communication before they open their relationship. We are not there now. I agree with icesong that there is already a lot going on. That’s where if she insists it must happen I don’t know if I can do it. We live abroad so separating becomes a huge deal, especially with corona virus limiting travel. It’s complicated. A sincere thanks to all who have shared their thoughts, experiences, and perspectives.
 
DADT, no more than one night a week, home by morning, nobody we know, keep it discreet.

She wants the freedoms to meet others and see where it goes.

I know you and she don't know it yet, but these could be considered contradictory statements.

"Where it goes" could become a lot more than a casual sexual nighttime encounter, or even a weekly one. Including for you. What if you meet someone and want to spend a weekend away with them? Get out of town to manage the "discreet" aspect and be able to go to brunch and hold hands in the street. It kinda sounds like she wants the option of finding a fuck buddy or three. But fuck buddies have a way of becoming friends with benefits, and friends often want to do more than just fuck. Friends with benefits may also evolve into a polyamorous relationship. "Seeing where it goes" could really go anywhere. Where are her lines that she won't cross? Where are yours?

You have at least a year before this night a week might begin. That's good time to work together as a couple and really understand what you mean by poly (although at this stage it would fall under the bigger umbrella of consensual non monogamy) and work on the strength of your relationship with each other while parenting three very little ones while living abroad.

Out of curiosity, how long do you intend to stay working abroad? If it's not too long, would this open relationship model remain once you go home? Or is this a crutch for the stressors of being so far from a familial support system?
 
"Seeing where it goes" could really go anywhere. Where are her lines that she won't cross? Where are yours?
We’ve only discussed the most basic of things above. She does want both physical and emotional connections. We both dated a good amount and had lots of different relationships before we got married. I’ve learned that she often dated more than one partner at a time, where I was either just dating without being committed or in a steady relationship. She worries that I would be the one to have more trouble with boundaries. We haven’t taken the time to discuss and draw clear lines. What are mine? Safety and protection are a given. Also, I’m definitely not okay with being public about it—we’d have to be really discreet. Keep it from friends and family, no social media. Neither of us want any details of what is happening with the other. We watched a Netflix series together called “Wanderlust”, about a couple opening their marriage. We saw a lot things we don’t see working for us. We wouldn’t share details or meet each other’s partners. Does this type of arrangement I’m describing even count as poly or is it just consensual non-monogamy?

Out of curiosity, how long do you intend to stay working abroad? If it's not too long, would this open relationship model remain once you go home? Or is this a crutch for the stressors of being so far from a familial support system?
We do intend to work abroad long term. If we go back to the states, that’s another discussion we’ll need to have. I don’t think it’s just a crutch for her. Her dating life was more fluid with exes as mentioned above and she has admitted that she cheated on almost all of them, especially towards the end when she didn’t see it working out. I am not a saint by any means. I had more partners in the past than her. I did cheat rarely in the past with ex-girlfriends—I can count the instances on one hand.

My wife does have a lot of good qualities and I understand why I married her. She has said and maintains that I am the only man she met that she felt she could have married. It’s so odd to me now that she feels this desire to have experiences outside our union. I’m still struggling with it, but I no longer see it as outside the realm of possibility. From researching it, poly lifestyle is much more common than I would have imagined.
 
Again, thank you all for the input, thoughts, advice, and perspectives. It was difficult to hear when my wife first proposed opening our marriage. Almost like a sting or a shock. A physical pain. Did anyone else feel this way when your partner first brought it up? I’m sure others felt joy, relief, excitement, or a mix of emotions.

I know it’s not for everyone. It would definitely be a dealbreaker for many. I’m doing some soul searching now and deciding if this is a choice I want to make. I don’t want to feel like I have to in order to save the marriage or for the kids. I am genuinely curious to learn more and see if this is something I really want to do.
 
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It was difficult to hear when my wife first proposed opening our marriage. Almost like a sting or a shock. A physical pain. Did anyone else feel this way when your partner first brought it up?
This is the usual reaction that we read here. Stick around a few weeks and you're likely to see other people writing an introduction that indicates they are having a similar experience.

When one partner brings up opening a marriage because of a desire for polyamory, it sometimes gets referred to as "dropping the poly bomb" or being "poly-bombed" - a little dramatic and not necessarily helpful overall, but if you want to use it as a search term, you can read how other people have processed that initial emotional shock. Some don't really move past it, some fully embrace the new approach to relationships, and everything in between.

It’s so odd to me now that she feels this desire to have experiences outside our union.
If she's like me, then it's because she feels completely confident in her decision to marry and spend the rest of her life with you, and doesn't see her experience with anyone else ever changing her resolve on that.

I'm not sure if you have come across it yet, but "Polysecure" is an oft-recommended book.
 
Glad you are thinking it over carefully.

I don’t want to feel like I have to in order to save the marriage or for the kids

That's the thing.

Save the marriage from what?

I don't think "staying together for the kids" is always a good idea. What does one really teach doing that? Don't kids need to learn what healthy divorce looks like so if it ever happens to them they know what to do/expect?

My spouse is an adult child of divorce and he and all his siblings say it would have been better for the parents to have broken up than drag it out. Then even with shared custody they would have had a shot at growing up in calmer homes.

Growing up in a "fighting all the time behind closed doors" for DECADES was not pleasant. And when fighting all the time is "the normal" how much more would a child put up with in their own relationships before they go "Wait. This is too much" and realize they are being abused? Kids need to see healthy relating. Married healthy families AND divorced healthy families.

Keep thinking things out. But don't lock yourself into it just "for the kids." As you say... you should not feel like you have to or are being coerced.

I am genuinely curious to learn more and see if this is something I really want to do.

Take your time learning and thinking it over.

Just my 2 cents.
Galagirl
 
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