Is this a vee?

aarlow

New member
Newbie here...just learned the "polyamorous" term! I'll call myself "Jim", my wife "Allie" and our third party "Hank", who is single. Allie and I live in Chicago , and have been married 12 years. Hank used to live here, and now lives in San Francisco, Allie and I have one child, "Sam" who is now nine years old. I'm now 44, Allie is 38, Hank 37; we're all in very good physical condition.

How Hank became an "active" member of our marriage is another story for another time; suffice it to say that we get together four or five times a year, either at our home or his. Allie's parents live nearby, so son Sam stays with them when Hank visits! Hank, Allie and I do fun things together, go to plays and concerts, out to dinner...and we sleep together. Allie insists on that...all in the same bed. We've been doing this seven years now.

When this began, I had a hard time with it, Hank is a powerful performer, and I'm jealous of that. My first reaction was to want a divorce. But Allie has convinced me that...to her...sex and love are two separate and distinct things. Sex is purely recreational...she loves it, and makes it no secret. Put simply, Allie wants to have her cake, and eat it, too. She wants a "respectable" home and career life; she also wants to be a slut, and do naughty things! And having a high-output lover 2,000 miles away is the perfect way to do it!

Why have I "put up" with it? For my part, I'm content. If anything, Allie's libido is growing with age, and our sex life is certainly better than ever...and I truly love her. I believe she loves me, as well, and our life together as a family is great. I have no need...or desire...for another sex partner. We've been to sex counseling, and the consensus is that in all likelihood, Allie's over-the-top libido would probably have led her into multiple affairs, with destructive effect on our marriage. Now, our get-togethers with Hank provide her with sufficient "release" of her sexual energy. (She decides when one is "necessary") BTW, Hank believes that to be true, and reminds me occasionally of the "favor" he's doing me!

So, is this a "vee" relationship? Hank is a virile, good looking guy...and there's no doubt he entertains other women. According to him, he only sleeps with married women, to avoid marital entanglements. He intends to remain a bachelor! Allie and I know that Hank's "other" sex life adds an element of risk, but no problems so far.
 

Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
Polyamory is a term that describes multiple loving relationships. Hank sounds like he is in the role of Friend with Benefits, but frequently enough that you all have a very established relationship, albeit sans the romantic love.

It also sounds like Hank is a good fit for your marriage - meeting Allie's sexual desires that are a bit more intense than yours.

If it was Polyamory, I'd probably describe Hank as Allie's comet person - he's not in your lives daily, he just swings by once in a while, and in those times you do MFM sexual encounters as well as social activities.

Do Allie and Hank spend much time talking outside of those visits?

I am long distance with one of my partners and I talk with him nearly daily, and often twice a day. I consider myself the hinge in a V relationship on my end. He is also a hinge in a star (5 main relationships of varying degrees). And some of his partners are hinges, too (but not all).

If you are happy thinking of it as a MFM V relationship with Allie as hinge, go right ahead ☺️
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Hello Jim,

A vee relationship occurs any time there are three people, and two of the people, while not being romantically involved with each other, are both romantically involved with the third person. The third person is the "hinge;" the other two people are the "legs" of the vee. Going by that description, a vee seems to be what you, Allie, and Hank have. You and Hank are the legs; Allie is the hinge. The fact that Hank entertains other women does not stop it from being a vee, it just means that it is an "open" vee. If the three of you only had sex amongst each other, then it would be a "closed" vee.

It sounds like you have a pretty sweet setup. Sure there are bumps in the road, but overall the three of you are happy with the arrangement. Thanks for sharing your story!

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 

aarlow

New member
Polyamory is a term that describes multiple loving relationships. Hank sounds like he is in the role of Friend with Benefits, but frequently enough that you all have a very established relationship, albeit sans the romantic love.

It also sounds like Hank is a good fit for your marriage - meeting Allie's sexual desires that are a bit more intense than yours.

If it was Polyamory, I'd probably describe Hank as Allie's comet person - he's not in your lives daily, he just swings by once in a while, and in those times you do MFM sexual encounters as well as social activities.

Do Allie and Hank spend much time talking outside of those visits?

I am long distance with one of my partners and I talk with him nearly daily, and often twice a day. I consider myself the hinge in a V relationship on my end. He is also a hinge in a star (5 main relationships of varying degrees). And some of his partners are hinges, too (but not all).

If you are happy thinking of it as a MFM V relationship with Allie as hinge, go right ahead ☺️
Not exactly sure how to navigate to answer your question re: Allie and Hank communicating outside our get-togethers, but here goes: As far as I know, they have no communication at all. From the beginning, Allie has been adamant about everything being "transparent", including sex. Hank and I do talk outside the threesome, about many things; our friendship preceded the "V", and continues pretty much as it did before.

I'm curious about your conversations with your long-distance partner; it sounds like you must have a lot to talk about. Do you counsel each other on personal things? Do your partners know each other, or just of each other?
 

Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
Ahh, I get it now. You and Hank have the long standing friendship but Allie and him really are predominantly just about the days he's in town.

My partners have briefly been introduced during a video call, but other than that, just know of each other. I've not met any of my LDR's other partners, but I expect to meet some of them briefly when I visit. One of them is my emergency contact - she'd message me if he couldn't because of illness, injury or death. But she's not the type of person to have an internet friend so we don't interact generally.

I talk about all sorts of things with my long distance partner, and we do counsel each other a little, yes. Everything I know about him is from him (and vice versa) so occasionally I might reflect something back at him with a twist or an insight and see if he feels it's useful to him. But mostly we talk about our days, work, how we're doing with health and fitness, and so on. We've cried about not being able to travel for so long, and we've talked about what we'll do when we finally can (there will be roller coasters during a summer trip!) And often we talk about more abstract things when we have our longer calls. And sometimes I even still email him if I was to share more in depth about my world including pictures (I will take a series, like when I visited the suburb I grew up in).

We've been talking nearly daily for about two and a half years now and still find new things to discuss ☺️
 

Token2

Member
I relate very much with your situation. But besides being confident in the swingers lifestyle, we're also what they call a Stag/Vixen style couple.

That's where my husband enjoys, often joins in and is not threatened by my expression of sexuality and to some degree my encounters with other men.

For a long time this was without any real emotion involved in my encounters, every now and then there might have been a connection with a lover but nothing with room to deepen.

I became the hinge in a vee about a year ago with my partner and a man I'd been having sex with for nearly 2 years before.

We'd been FWB, we had started texting and talking all the time, even though our sexual relationship has barely changed through the shift to a more poly model I do not consider that it became a vee until -

• I realised that I had a connection/attachment to the boyfriend

• I communicated that to my partner

• I communicated that to the boyfriend and proposed a relationship model for us to explore

• The boyfriend had time to process my feelings/proposal and respond

• My partner had time to process and respond

• All 3 of us were on board to explore

My husband and Boyfriend are both straight, they love eachother as friends, we make amazing memories together, and then as twosomes.

My partner is a firm believer in hierarchy. My boyfriend respects us (partner and I) too much to put any pressure on me or any belief that our dynamic could escalate.

I personally believe love cannot and should not be controlled and so hierarchies are good in theory - we have a home, business, family etc that we've built that we are both deeply invested in but the mere act of opening your relationship to other loves invites change.

It's likely when my partner finds a new love it won't involve me sexually. To me this journey has been about releasing the need to feel any sense of control and to accept my own and other people's feelings.
 
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aarlow

New member
I relate very much with your situation. But besides being confident in the swingers lifestyle, we're also what they call a Stag/Vixen style couple.

That's where my husband enjoys, often joins in and is not threatened by my expression of sexuality and to some degree my encounters with other men.

For a long time this was without any real emotion involved in my encounters, every now and then there might have been a connection with a lover but nothing with room to deepen.

I became the hinge in a vee about a year ago with my partner and a man I'd been having sex with for nearly 2 years before.

We'd been FWB, we had started texting and talking all the time, even though our sexual relationship has barely changed through the shift to a more poly model I do not consider that it became a vee until -

• I realised that I had a connection/attachment to the boyfriend

• I communicated that to my partner

• I communicated that to the boyfriend and proposed a relationship model for us to explore

• The boyfriend had time to process my feelings/proposal and respond

• My partner had time to process and respond

• All 3 of us were on board to explore

My husband and Boyfriend are both straight, they love eachother as friends, we make amazing memories together, and then as twosomes.

My partner is a firm believer in hierarchy. My boyfriend respects us (partner and I) too much to put any pressure on me or any belief that our dynamic could escalate.

I personally believe love cannot and should not be controlled and so hierarchies are good in theory - we have a home, business, family etc that we've built that we are both deeply invested in but the mere act of opening your relationship to other loves invites change.

It's likely when my partner finds a new love it won't involve me sexually. To me this journey has been about releasing the need to feel any sense of control and to accept my own and other people's feelings.
I have a question/comment, but first must ask: Are your "partner" and "husband" one and the same?
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
So... You and Hank were friends, he moved away. You and Hank are still friends.

At some point it became a V thing -- where Allie is the shared hinge person, and you and Hank are the end point people in the V.

You are her husband and lover.

Hank is her FWB / lover/ BF / play partner / whatever she calls him. (Does she call him something? What?)

This has been the arrangement for the last 7 years. You visit each other a few times a year and share group sex/threesomes.

If it works for you all? It works for you all. It's fine.

Galagirl
 

Token2

Member
I have a question/comment, but first must ask: Are your "partner" and "husband" one and the same?
Yes! Sorry for not being clear - we're not married but we may as well be.
 

aarlow

New member
Yes! Sorry for not being clear - we're not married but we may as well be.
So, your boyfriend is your "former FWB"...does that mean that your relationship with him has escalated to a higher emotional status? Could it be competing with the much longer-term relationship with your partner/husband? Will that create a conflict for you? I think that's one reason my situation has succeeded...the other leg of our V, Hank, has remained as FWB for Allie, nothing beyond that. Don't get me wrong, their sex is very intense...they're both sexual thoroughbreds, and they're like passionate athletes in bed. But they really have nothing to talk about; in fact they're both rather shy and assuming people outside the bedroom. Hank has told me that he considers himself the luckiest guy in the world; he gets to fuck his best friend's wife...who is drop-dead gorgeous...with no risk, no guilt! And no obligations.
 

aarlow

New member
So... You and Hank were friends, he moved away. You and Hank are still friends.

At some point it became a V thing -- where Allie is the shared hinge person, and you and Hank are the end point people in the V.

You are her husband and lover.

Hank is her FWB / lover/ BF / play partner / whatever she calls him. (Does she call him something? What?)

This has been the arrangement for the last 7 years. You visit each other a few times a year and share group sex/threesomes.

If it works for you all? It works for you all. It's fine.

Galagirl
She just calls him Hank! I should say that our "group sex/threesomes" are technically that, because we're all present...Allie insists on that. Realistically, for the most part, I'm just occupying extra space on the king-size bed; Hank has huge reserves of sexual stamina, and maintains "activity" throughout the night. And sometimes during the day! By the time we part...usually a three-day weekend...Allie is exhausted, but happily so. Now that I think about it she has called him a "dog"!
 

Token2

Member
So, your boyfriend is your "former FWB"...does that mean that your relationship with him has escalated to a higher emotional status? Could it be competing with the much longer-term relationship with your partner/husband? Will that create a conflict for you?
Definite escalation, we see each-other one on one and we talk very freely together.

There's no competing in either relationship dynamic, and for me that's what makes it a safe exploration of polyamory, if any of us had insecurities/real jealousy we probably wouldn't be suited to it.

I'm never conflicted about either relationship but I have often wrestled with my emotions as I learn a large part of relationships is not about the other person but your own reaction to relating to them or how they move through life/connections.

Don't get me wrong, their sex is very intense...
What started out as sex and friendship (boyfriend) for us has deepened. It's easy while at the same time proving to be constantly challenging as we relate in very different ways - I think through everything and he goes with the flow.

My partner's support and understanding has been everything, he does say he gets pangs of jealousy every now and then but he loves seeing me happy, he respects us both and he experienced a connection of his own a few years back which was what 1st introduced the concept of polyamory into our dynamic.
 
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Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
I think that's one reason my situation has succeeded...the other leg of our V, Hank, has remained as FWB for Allie, nothing beyond that.

Is there something that is attracting you to exploring polyamory? Since you're here and not at a different website 🙂 Polyamory embraces multiple loving relationships. You may find you resonate more with relationship anarchy which has greater emphasis on more variety of descriptions, some of which might be nigh on exclusively sexual.

Polyamory is just one of the relationship models that fall under the broad umbrella of ethical non-monogamy. Keeping it as FWB is another model. You can choose labels as you wish, and maybe a couple of them will help you communicate succinctly about the basics, but please don't get hung up on trying to precisely define anything, especially not to keep it under control. It sounds like you're all happy enough with the status quo.
 

aarlow

New member
I guess I'm just interested in the experience of others who are involved in similar relationships. Allie believes ours is unique and somewhat bizarre; she won't share what we do with anyone, even her most intimate confidants. While she hasn't said so, I think she's sometimes concerned that my acceptance of how "we" cope with her powerful libido won't last forever. At some point, I'd like to get her involved in this website discussion, so she can share her experience and feelings with others in her situation. I should also disclose that our sex therapist made me admit to being affected by voyeurism, which I view as a positive. I believe it's a stimulant to me in my relationship with Allie. In any event, my love for her is total, and she certainly never needs to worry about losing me.
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
She just calls him Hank! I should say that our "group sex/threesomes" are technically that, because we're all present...Allie insists on that. Realistically, for the most part, I'm just occupying extra space on the king-size bed; Hank has huge reserves of sexual stamina, and maintains "activity" throughout the night. And sometimes during the day! By the time we part...usually a three-day weekend...Allie is exhausted, but happily so. Now that I think about it she has called him a "dog"!
How do you feel about Allie "insisting" that you be present for their hours-long sessions, long after you are done? How do you feel about her "insisting" you all sleep together in one bed on Hank's visits? Do you have a female-led relationship? Don't you get a say? Maybe you're fine with being in bed while they fuck and sleep, but it sounds like you're just acceding to Allie's wishes, or you'd say something like, "We have MFM sex and I enjoy being there to watch them long after I feel satisfied," and, "I enjoy sharing a bed for sleep with both Hank and Allie when he visits."

In polyamory, generally personal independence is favored. Ideally, each partner makes sure to state their needs and attempt to meet them or have them met. Doing something just because your wife insists you do hits a bit different, so I am curious about your feelings about that.

Personally, I am what I guess you'd call a sexual athlete. (I'm 66, so I'm not in the best physical shape of my life lol but I still have a very strong libido and plenty of energy.) However, my nesting partner Pixi has always had a lower libido than I, and for the last few months she's been struggling with physical and emotional issues that hinder her ability to have sex. She's good with a quick session once a week on average lately, far less than is satisfying for me. when she's feeling well, we might only have sex once a week, but have a longer more intense kink/sex session, or actually have sex several times a week (if I'm lucky!).

Therefore, I have made a habit of having a boyfriend or a FWB throughout our relationship. I prefer a bf, since I am poly, but I am not always lucky enough to have one, so I have made do with friendly guys with high libidos when I have had to. I ID as polyamorous. I still consider myself to be in a V if I have a bf or a FWB. On occasion I have had more than one FWB at a time, as well. And of course there have been stretches when I have not had a second partner at all (like in 2020).

Pixi and I had tried to share sex with a bf or FWB of mine from time to time, but it has not worked out great, so we stopped doing that years ago. Nowadays we are lucky enough to each have a bf who is free on the weekends. She goes to her bf Malachi's house, and my bf Aries comes here to the house I share with Pixi. Over the years, Malachi has become Pixi's other primary partner. And I have spent just about every weekend with Aries since we met 6 months ago, so we have become really bonded and close.
 

Token2

Member
Maybe you guys are a monogamish Vixen/Stag couple - without multiple 'guest stars' - just Hank?

TBH - The fact that when you're not in bed he's closer to you them her makes me feel you're sitting more in sex-based Ethical Non-Monogamy than love in her and Hank's heart polyamory.
 

aarlow

New member
Maybe you guys are a monogamish Vixen/Stag couple - without multiple 'guest stars' - just Hank?

TBH - The fact that when you're not in bed he's closer to you them her makes me feel you're sitting more in sex-based Ethical Non-Monogamy than love in her and Hank's heart polyamory.
I had to research the "Vixen/Stag" thing...or "Stag/Vixen", as it were...to understand just what that is. And I believe that does define our thing. Hank is my good buddy, and he and I first "conspired" to get Allie into bed with both of us just to find out if she'd actually do it. Afterwards, Hank said to me: "Wow, Jimmy...you're right...Allie REALLY loves to fuck!" I already knew that, of course, but what I didn't know was that I really enjoy watching them...actually find it quite arousing.

Hank and I are still good friends...same as always. He and I sometimes joke about Allie's "super libido", but he has a whole 'nuther life, without us in it. He does confess that Allie "challenges" him in bed. I should disclose that Hank's profession is psychology, and he believes that Allie is sexually stimulated by being "naughty", that is, engaging in extra-marital sex. Your thoughts?
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
I had to research the "Vixen/Stag" thing...or "Stag/Vixen", as it were...to understand just what that is. And I believe that does define our thing. Hank is my good buddy, and he and I first "conspired" to get Allie into bed with both of us just to find out if she'd actually do it. Afterwards, Hank said to me: "Wow, Jimmy...you're right...Allie REALLY loves to fuck!" I already knew that, of course, but what I didn't know was that I really enjoy watching them...actually find it quite arousing.
So, is that my answer to whether you mind that Allie "insists" you are there for all their fucking? It's not that she insists, it's an arrangement of mutual consent?
Hank and I are still good friends...same as always. He and I sometimes joke about Allie's "super libido", but he has a whole 'nuther life, without us in it. He does confess that Allie "challenges" him in bed. I should disclose that Hank's profession is psychology, and he believes that Allie is sexually stimulated by being "naughty", that is, engaging in extra-marital sex. Your thoughts?
Many/most people are aroused by having sex with multiple partners (or at least fantasizing about it). Monogamy is a social economic structure based on the patriarchal system. It's commonly accepted that all MEN want multiple sex partners (at heart), while women are somehow designed to be monogamous. That is ridiculous, of course. But yeah, it can be arousing for many humans (of any gender) to break taboos. That's not rocket science. It doesn't take a psych degree to figure that one out lol Why is Hank analyzing/judging Allie for being naughty and wanting extra-marital sex, when he himself has many partners? Just because he's not married does not mean he isn't breaking social taboos. He is still "fornicating." haha
 

aarlow

New member
So, is that my answer to whether you mind that Allie "insists" you are there for all their fucking? It's not that she insists, it's an arrangement of mutual consent?

Many/most people are aroused by having sex with multiple partners (or at least fantasizing about it). Monogamy is a social economic structure based on the patriarchal system. It's commonly accepted that all MEN want multiple sex partners (at heart), while women are somehow designed to be monogamous. That is ridiculous, of course. But yeah, it can be arousing for many humans (of any gender) to break taboos. That's not rocket science. It doesn't take a psych degree to figure that one out lol Why is Hank analyzing/judging Allie for being naughty and wanting extra-marital sex, when he himself has many partners? Just because he's not married does not mean he isn't breaking social taboos. He is still "fornicating." haha
I think Allie insists upon my presence because that makes it "legitimate", that is, she's not having a clandestine affair behind my back. That would violate her moral code, I think. I don't know...she's a dichotomy...wants to be perceived as "straight-laced", but wants to be naughty, too! I'll have to talk to Hank about that...

I appreciate your insight...and your candor. When you told me your age, and still-active libido, I was surprised, and it gave me something to think about. Allie is 38, and looks 15 years younger...she still gets carded in bars sometimes...seriously! To see what she looks like, watch an old Dick Van Dyke TV show, with Mary Tyler Moore. Take away the lacquered-down hair and excess make-up, and you have Allie's doppelganger. Allie's whole family carries some kind of extra youth genome; she has four younger siblings, and they all look like high-school kids, though they're mostly in their 30's. Her mother is 64, and looks to be in her 40's.

I'm already 6 1/2 years older than Allie...what's it going to be like in 25 years? She'll be 63, I'll be pushing 70. Makes me think!

How do you determine who is your "primary" partner? Why didn't sharing sex with Pixi and your bf or a FWB work? I guess in my case, Allie is my primary (read only) partner, and I'm her primary. But I wonder who Hank considers his primary? Another thing to ask him about...
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
I guess I'm just interested in the experience of others who are involved in similar relationships. Allie believes ours is unique and somewhat bizarre; she won't share what we do with anyone, even her most intimate confidants.

Doesn't have to share with anyone. How "out" you all want to be to other people about your arrangement is a decision between you three.

But nope. Not all that unique. Not bizarre.

Whether a purely FWB thing to share only friendship and sex or a polyamory thing to share friendship, sex, and romance? Others before you have traveled this road. There will be others after you.

While she hasn't said so, I think she's sometimes concerned that my acceptance of how "we" cope with her powerful libido won't last forever.

For now, you seem fine with it. Her emotional management is her job. So... she can deal with that concern.

At some point, I'd like to get her involved in this website discussion, so she can share her experience and feelings with others in her situation.

Could make her aware this forum exists, but if she prefers to be elsewhere online so you each have your own "space" that's fine too. Or maybe she's not into forums. Each of of you is still an individual even though sometimes you have threesome sex play dates.

I should also disclose that our sex therapist made me admit to being affected by voyeurism, which I view as a positive. I believe it's a stimulant to me in my relationship with Allie. In any event, my love for her is total, and she certainly never needs to worry about losing me.

If you are worried she needs reassuring somehow? Could ASK HER if she needs reassuring somehow.

If it is that YOU need some kind of reassuring? Ask for what you need.

I think Allie insists upon my presence because that makes it "legitimate", that is, she's not having a clandestine affair behind my back.

It sounds like you all know and consent to participate in this. So it isn't "clandestine" if you all know and consent. You don't actually have to be present for every encounter Allie has with Hank. For it to be ethical non-monogamy? What is required is consent and knowledge in all participants. The group sex part? Not really a requirement.

Now... if you like being there for threesome sex because you get off on watching / being a voyeur and the other two also get off on being watched and all get along well enough for that? Carry on and have fun. Not anyone's business but you 3 people's business.

Hank and I are still good friends...same as always. He and I sometimes joke about Allie's "super libido", but he has a whole 'nuther life, without us in it. He does confess that Allie "challenges" him in bed. I should disclose that Hank's profession is psychology, and he believes that Allie is sexually stimulated by being "naughty", that is, engaging in extra-marital sex. Your thoughts?

Some people enjoy only thinking about it/fantasizing. Some people like doing that PLUS actually having extra-marital sex here and there like casual sex, or regularly with a steady partner. Some don't like either thinking about it OR doing extra-martial sex. People come in all sorts of ways, each with their own way for how they prefer to run their lives.

If part of the fun for Allie is being "naughty" then I think "Sure. Entirely possible. Have fun and enjoy."

Galagirl
 
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