Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc.: Merged Threads, General Discussion

Hi booklady, you seem to be where our triad was at about 8 months ago... about the time we started writing on here. If you want to look back that far.

I totally get what you are talking about. I too would have no problem with my husband finding another. In fact he has a boyfriend that has come on our scene since i got together with Mono.

If Mono found another I would be out. I get that he is not interested in another and I get that he couldn't be poly, so I have thought long and hard about what that means. I would be VERY concerned if he took interest in another woman.

I love that he is mono. There is something so settling and calming for me in that. I can sit back and be loved by him entirely, without any thought that I will have to do any work around other partners. I have that work with my husband and that is enough for me.

On the other hand though, I could not be with just mono. It would bring up all the issues I had when I was in other mono relationships and would lead to my leaving eventually as my needs would not be met. My husband and I have a bond through poly as much as I have a bond with Mono through monogamy. I am finding that hard to explain, but really I feel I have the best of both worlds...:) they are a package deal to me.
 
On the other hand though, I could not be with just mono. It would bring up all the issues I had when I was in other mono relationships and would lead to my leaving eventually as my needs would not be met. My husband and I have a bond through poly as much as I have a bond with Mono through monogamy. I am finding that hard to explain, but really I feel I have the best of both worlds...:) they are a package deal to me.

This is such a true statement. I think about if things were to change and it was just us and I know it would not be possible for the long haul either as my own needs would become different and more possessive. You and your husband are a package deal as well...cool how that works :)
 
I totally get what you are talking about. I too would have no problem with my husband finding another. In fact he has a boyfriend that has come on our scene since i got together with Mono.

I seem to remember you mentioning that you might not be happy if your husband developed a relationship with another woman. Have you managed to get past that?
 
I seem to remember you mentioning that you might not be happy if your husband developed a relationship with another woman. Have you managed to get past that?

I was just PMing someone about this. Funny you should ask.

On Christmas eve my husbands boyfriend was over and visiting our house for the first time. I took note of how much he is like other women and men that my husband chooses to associate with. It made me feel special that he chooses good people that are similar to me, yet different. I felt that because I could see myself in his partner that I was special to him. Does that make sense? He had qualities about him that I like in myself and that made me feel good.

So if he were to find a woman I think I could handle it as I would assume that it would be a similar experience. I would think that I would also like the women he chooses for the same reasons. Of course this could be seen as a threat also.

Of course this remains to be seen and is an expectation. I have always been open to him finding a female as much as a male, I just think I would react differently. That remains to me seen also.

I think I am a bit more past this, but really until it happens I won't know. I can only prepare and then try and remember what my preparations were when the time comes.

I certainly won't be happy as such, but will be happy for him and can see how my happiness for myself could grow. I would be surprised really as he isn't looking and has told me that he is fine with the way things are at the moment. He will tell me if he ever thinks that he is ready to actively look again.
 
Healthy jealousy for a first timer

Hi. I'm new to this lifestyle. And by new, I mean the courting of another girl finally came to a head last night. I didn't know how I was going to feel about it until it happened. A slight tinge of jealousy hangs in the back of my mind like wondering if I left the iron on. It's just there. I'm a very secure person. I know who I am, I love myself AND I am secure in my ability to handle new situations -- I'm adaptable. I just can't seem to shake the nagging feeling in the back of my head and the seemingly unrelated - and I hope it is - nausea.

A little history: My beau and I dated 5 years ago. Our relationship ended when he slept with another woman. He never explained his sex addiction to me and I was blind sided. I was more upset about the lying that went on surrounding the month he was sleeping with her. Sex has never been a coveted thing for me, but honesty is the pure air in which I breath; It is my life force. Not being able to trust him, we went our separate ways. Four years later, I ran into him at a local venue, tell him I forgive him, which I had, and move on with my life. It was a short while before we were back at it again, trying to make something work. He had to learn to forgive himself and accept himself as I do. The lying was a symptom of his archaic ideals -- marriage and monogamy are the main goal and anything else is bad.

We have been honest with each other through this last year, including my acceptance of the inevitable. Accepting him as a sex addict, I cannot expect him to remain faithful to only me. He will explore especially when the pressure hits [it seems to be his breaking point]. The terms of our current relationship is such that I will know who he has been with, for my safety and his. He has been painfully [for him] honest and is accepting it as a way of life.

Last night, a girl, a friend of us both, came over and we all hung out. This is not the first time this has happened, though this was the first time anything happened between the two of them. I went to bed. He came to bed hours later and didn't touch me. Normally he cuddles up with me and holds me for an hour or so before turning over. He didn't even rub me. He laid there, as far from me on the bed as possible. I knew at that point that it had happened and immediately became nauseous. Been nauseous since. :confused:

She's here all day, will be here until tomorrow and I don't know how to shake this jealousy/nausea. I like this girl. She's amazing, loving, funny, and thinks I'm awesome. If I had stayed awake, it'da been us three. So, I'm not really getting the jealousy. He cuddled with her on the couch this afternoon while they played video games [to clarify, we're on vacay, so time is ours :D]. I noticed that I didn't like that much. But I feel that jealousy correlates with not getting much attention from him after finding out what happened. This is my first time being in this sort of relationship. I'm calling it polyamorous because of the 2 months of courting he did with her, she is a family friend and I am super close to her. She's not just a one night fling that he'll never call again. We'd discussed those types of relationships and he's more uncomfortable with them than I am.

My issue: I don't want to hate this. I pride myself in being open, loving and able to handle heavy loads. I love him. He is more than a partner to me, he is my soulmate. My only goal is for him to be happy. I left last time because I could not trust him, which would harm the relationship irreparably. I expect to continue in our relationship as it is, but with a new confidence on his side because the sacred seal has been broken... he has gone somewhere no woman has ever allowed him before. I am the first girlfriend that hasn't tried to change him and has only encouraged him to grow and accept himself as he is. I'm certain the jealousy will subside, so I suppose I'm here to tell my story, vent and get feedback. I hope to hear [read] stories of others that have gotten over this hump. Being new and hating jealousy [it's not a feeling I'm used to - I experienced it for the first time 5 years ago], I am ready for this lump in my throat to be over. Someone hand me a light!
 
There is a lot on this forum about jealousy, have a look around and have a good read. I hope some of it helps.

The fact is that he cheated. He broke your agreement again. Of course you would have feelings about that. An agreement is an agreement, even if you like this woman and see her as potentially someone to have around for awhile or for the long haul.

What does she say about all this anyway? Has she said anything at all? If not then that is a red flag to me. If she is really going to work out then a conversation about what happened and what it means to you is a good step to take I would think.

I would hope to that you would talk to your boyfriend and tell him how you feel about his cheating on you again. Just because he has a sex addiction and you have been the only one to accept that, does not mean he gets to do whatever he wants in my opinion. Perhaps some communicating about what to do in situations where there is another female in the house would be in order? It may not be the end of the world, just something that was over looked perhaps.
 
He never explained his sex addiction to me and I was blind sided.

"Sex addiction" is actually a very serious condition. I thought I had one and was actually evaluated as not having one. Seriously..this is not something to take lightly if he truly does have one. I'm not saying he doesn't but if he is just self diagnosing it may be more of an excuse to act on impulse, not an inability to control sexual behavior. Sex addiction is a destructive force.

Has he gotten any treatment for this? Your health could be at risk as well as sexual addiction can leads to extremely dangerous sexual safety issues.

Take care
Mono
 
But I feel that jealousy correlates with not getting much attention from him after finding out what happened.

Did he tell you about what happened, or did you just assume that something did based on his behavior? If he didn't talk to you about it and tell you what had happened, then he's still not being honest with you about his relations with other women, which seems like cheating. He may have not wanted to touch you because he felt guilty about what he did with your friend.

You should definitely talk to him about it, and about how it made you feel. I agree with Redpepper that being poly isn't about having a free pass to do what you'd like with anyone. It's a lot easier to operate within everyone's comfort zone when you know where the boundaries are.

Do you think you would have felt better about it if he had talked to you about being with her before it had happened? Should he have told you when he came to bed? Do you feel like you need a normal level of affection (or more?) from him when there's another woman there? These are things you should probably talk about with your man if you want to feel more comfortable about it next time, if you want a next time.

If you're clear about your expectations with him, then it'll be easier for him to feel more comfortable sharing with you, too.

Anyway, hope that helps. Hang in there. :)
 
Wow, I thought I was being clear, but it seems from the responses I was not. :confused: I read and reread my post and thought it was okay, that my points were made.

I'm lost as to what to say to you all. Um, thanks for trying?
 
Wow, I thought I was being clear, but it seems from the responses I was not. :confused: I read and reread my post and thought it was okay, that my points were made.

I'm lost as to what to say to you all. Um, thanks for trying?

There was nothing UNclear about your original post. However, it seems as though you were looking for a particular response and did not get it.

You asked for ways to help deal with your jealousy, and people offered some suggestions. I don't think you need to say anything to us "all" because you initiated the conversation, and people responded. It isn't like this has reached the level of "debate" yet where you need to be "making points".

Something about your more recent post suggests to me that there is some kind of control-struggle going on in your relationship, but of course we don't know how your life works, what you've been through, etc. etc. etc. and if I were to continue speculating I'm afraid I might be perceived as "judging" you so I'm gonna stop here.
 
It would be great to have some answers to the questions some of us posed but really its up to you if you are willing to fill is in on more of what's going on.

Only then can anyone come up with some kind of advice on how to deal with your jealousy. Its really a matter of what you are willing share and what you are willing to wade through to get to some nuggets, in the form of answers for yourself.
 
@Redpepper Nothing you said had anything to do with what I wrote. I never said he cheated again, you read way too far into what I was saying and missed it entirely. He courted her for two months and why would I know that if he wasn't being honest? No agreement was broken. No red flags, just an annoying tinge of jealousy that I wasn't expecting to deal with because, like I said, I don't experience jealousy.

@lipsandlace You were a bit more helpful, but agreeing with redpepper made me believe that I was not clear AT ALL, therefore at a loss for words.
 
I read what I read and responded... I am sorry if you are annoyed with that. That just happens on a forum when someone writes something... all that is needed is to clarify and move on, that's it. It is a bit of a guessing game until everyone gets what the question is and what the problem is.

anyway, i hope you figure it out.
 
Being foreign to you and your feelings makes it difficult to assess your situation. We can offer you help by asking you questions that could help to clarify the situation for us that maybe you haven't thought of, but without being involved, we can't really do much.

The reason I agreed with Redpepper is that it would seem from your guy's actions (i.e. not even touching you after, being as far from you in the bed as he could), that he felt guilty. If he felt like he had something to be guilty about, that's not good. But like she said, it's probably not the end of the world. Perhaps you just need to communicate about what you expect from him after he does "hang out" with another woman. If you can work on why he felt guilty about it and what he needs so he doesn't feel that way, your needs will likely be met because he'll feel more comfortable.

There's no reason to get defensive, we're just trying to help with the information we've been given. :)
 
Maybe this will help

Hi Brooke,

Here's something that may or may not help you untangle this a little.
This feeling of discomfort - you label as jealousy - is not irrational, especially depending on your upbringing, background, history etc. The previous violation of trust you mentioned is likely a key to it. I think that's a huge pushbutton for everyone ! Could talk in depth on that one another time.
No matter - I think the important thing to focus on is that eliminating "jealousy" - or any such uncomfortable (nauseous) feeling unfortunately is not just a question of identifying it and saying "it's gone" - poof !
It's a skill and takes practice and dedication. You've taken step 1 by identifying it. Now you practice ways of dealing with it - internally & externally. As I believe someone else has already mentioned, from your brief writing it would appear that the communication between the two of you is not where it should be yet. You both have your guard up a bit - yours being the violation of trust - his guilt & fear of future violation.
This is an ideal situation for you both to open up more and talk about that. No expectations or agenda - just talk. Talk about your feelings, how the situation developed, how you might acknowledge each others place when it arises in the future.
You're just in the early practice stages. Don't be discouraged or afraid - just acknowledge where you're both at at this moment and take heart in the fact that probably all of us have been there at one time also.
We're all here to help any way we can !

GS
 
One of the biggest hurdles we've had with jealousy is being able to talk about it. When my husband and I were in the beginning of exploring the boundaries of polyamory for our situation it was very awkward. When he would get jealous and/or feel hurt about something I had done, it was hard not be defensive. It took awhile to learn that it wasn't about me 'fixing' the jealousy, it was about helping him understand the root of it. It was also hard for me to talk about all the happiness and fun I was experiencing and I was the one coming to bed, cold and distant, because I felt guilty. For a brief while, I didn't want to share what I was experiencing with my BF with my husband because I wanted to avoid him feeling jealous. That really didn't work well so we've tried to be open and honest about things now and respect each others feelings, as well as our 'reaction' to each others feelings. It's one hellava job learning how to communicate so much and we're certainly not experts. It's the one thing I think is the key to making poly relationships work, communication about the feelings that arise. Bottling up any feelings thinking you are sparing someone is likely to backfire.
 
Jealousy vs envy

"At first sight, it may look as if the green gods and goddesses of the Buddhist pantheon have defeated the green-eyed monster of jealousy. Upon closer inspection, however, it becomes apparent that this perception needs correction. The problem is that the Buddhist terms translated as "jealousy"--such as issa (Pali); phrag dog (Tibetan); or irshya (Sanskrit)--are more accurately read as "envy." In the various Buddhist descriptions of "jealousy" we generally find illustrations of bitterness and resentment at the happiness, talents, or good fortune of others, but very rarely, if ever, of contracting fear and anger in response to a mate's sexual or emotional connection to others. In the Abhid-hamma, for example, jealousy (issa) is considered an immoral mental state characterized by feelings of ill will at the success and prosperity of others. The description of the "jealous gods" realm (asura-loka) also supports this assertion. Though commonly called "jealous," the asuras are said to be envious of the gods of the heaven realm (devas), and possessed by feelings of ambition, hatred, and paranoia."

This is a clip from a link that River posted on another thread. It struck home with me because I feel that a clear distinction is important to anyone attempting to navigate a polyamorous lifestyle. It's also a topic that I have had many long discussions over the years with many people.
One of the reasons I feel it's so important is that I've seen a number of people do a lot of work and quite literally conquer the "jealousy" (fear) part of their makeup, only to later find themselves struggling again. After deeper discussions and thought, it finally surfaces that in fact it's NOT jealousy at all - but simply "envy". Understanding this places the feelings on a whole different level and will be addressed in a quite different manner.
It's quite common in polyamorous lifestyles that one person seems to be faring better/having more success in connecting with the people they desire in their lives. It's not atypical to have feelings of "envy" surface in these situations, but it's also easier to put those feelings in proper perspective (and action) if you call a spade a spade. Because the handling of those feelings require very different processes.

GS
 
More word definitions? ;)

I have got very confused as to the distinction between the two.

I used to believe that jealousy was the feeling that you had a relationship that you valued and could lose and that envy was about wanting to possess something that is valued.

So jealousy would be when your lover showed attention to someone and you are in fear of that negatively impacting your own relationship with your lover, while you could be envious of someone else who has a relationship which you perceive as better than your own in some way (even though you don't want to have a relationship with either of them).

Even with those definitions there is some overlap, of course. But I think that as in so many words in the language, the distinctions have been blurred to the point where they are now used synonymously and have watered down the nuances of the two concepts.

The bottom line is, whether it's envy or jealousy or whatever you want to call it, if there is some negative feeling that is going on in your relationship situation, take a good look at what is going on and to get in touch with the underlying causes and work with your partners to get them addressed before they get enveloped in anger, sadness, or resentment and blow up into something that eclipses the original issues and becomes much harder to deal with.
 
come barreling into a room all happy and smiley, ready to chat and get to know people, eager to tell my story and share experiences, learn from others and love them for who they are and I am faced with them looking me over, taking note of my situation and then get the eye roll and the cold shoulder.

I can SO relate to this, one of things I love about being so openly poly is that i CAN talk about my life and how happy i am and why. I want to tell my friends how lovley R has been how much i am looking forward to him moving in, and how content i feel when they are both together and getting on well,
and a lot of the time i get a cold reaction, raised eyebrows,

One time a friend even said to me "you are stealing all the men" I can't even get one and you have 2 how is that fair. I'm not sure how to reply to that statement, I do not feel that the people i love belong to me, i don't own them so how can i steal them but i did apreciate her honesty in telling me how she feels i know that at the moment she is very unhappy with her love life so i am trying to be more sensitive.

If XYZ123 is reading, I fear it is what you and I discussed about my having my cake and eating it too. How having two men is frowned upon for women, but not for men with two women.

when people say this to me, which iv heard often i say,
what is the point in having a cake I cannot eat!!


Basically it comes down to this
I cannot control other peoples envy, i can only encorage them to find there own happyness in love and life and i refuse to apologise for being happy. I hvae been through hell to get where I am now my life has not all been plane sailing and I am sure you have had your fair share of heartache and sorrow too redpepper. Everyone deserves a little happyness.

Jools
 
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One time a friend even said to me "you are stealing all the men" I can't even get one and you have 2 how is that fair.
Oh yes! This, and other variations on how selfish I must be to "have" two women (like I own them, and it somehow takes them out of some imaginary dating pool) when they can't get a date! That seems to be one of those gut reactions that they haven't even thought through.... I mean, if I have a poly girlfriend, then she is POLY and still "available". If the person was thinking of having this person all to themselves, well, that won't work either, because she's POLY!

I think that is pure envy at play! :)

I have great sympathy for those that can't find someone and feel that they need someone in their lives. But I won't take the blame or feel guilty for it because I have two girlfriends....

But yes, it's very hard what to say to those that are single, but then again, I'm sure they go through the same feelings when they see a monogamous marriage working well, with kids running around... (if that's what they want) - so not really sure that in that case being successful at poly is any different....

If XYZ123 is reading, I fear it is what you and I discussed about my having my cake and eating it too. How having two men is frowned upon for women, but not for men with two women.
Well, I can't give anything but one data point, but I haven't found the stereotypical male "woah you get two women! You dog!" reaction from people that I have told (both male and female). The normal reaction is that my mono partner is being taken advantage of in some way and that this make me a bit of a "cad" and why can't I be happy with just one person, and how does that make the one person feel when you want another and so on.


Basically it comes down to this I cannot control other peoples envy, i can only encorage them to find there own happyness in love and life and i refuse to apologise for being happy.
Yes, that's pretty much the same place I have got to. If others want to look down on me for being poly (or not doing poly right, or not being poly enough or whatever) then that is their decision, and that I need to be true to myself primarily, and ensure my happiness, and then to the ones I love, respect and care about, to help them have a happy life.

Everyone deserves a little happyness.
così sia, ainsi soit-il, so say we all and amen to that! :)
 
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