Just LR

SNeacail

New member
I'm baffled by Maca's insistence you get tested for something you already know you have. What does that even mean? Is it a punitive measure? some kind of slut-shaming?

Or is it a distrust of the testing facilities ability to follow directions? If the herpes test is done and comes back positive, then the results for the other tests are more believable. Kinda like when my mom went to have her oil changed and they gave a laundry list of stuff they checked, but the numbers they wrote down for tire pressure would mean all 4 tires were 15lbs low, although normal on most vehicles - she knew immediately they hadn't actually checked the tire pressure. They asked her what is "should" be, but she just said, go actually check the pressure and tell me what it IS.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Re:
"If the herpes test is done and comes back positive, then the results for the other tests are more believable."

Okay, I can see that.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I'm baffled by Maca's insistence you get tested for something you already know you have. What does that even mean? Is it a punitive measure? some kind of slut-shaming?

His insistence is that anyone who wants to sleep with me be tested for it-in this case-the person in question already knows that they ALSO have herpes.
From past experience AND again this morning, I know for a fact that the doctor flat WILL NOT test for herpes-when you ALREADY have been confirmed to have it.

Maca's take is-that if they aren't tested and a paper shown him-they don't want to fuck me bad enough to have the privilege. Even if the doctor is willing to say "we tested abcdefg and those are clear-but we aren't testing for herpes as we have already previously confirmed that this client is positive for herpes1/2"

HONESTLY; I think it's a control thing.
But right now-I'm too frustrated with all of the drama to care.
Sigh.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I highly doubt he's questioning the testing facility. He's prone to not using protection at all and in the past thought it absolutely asinine that I was insistent that other partners being tested at all.
The women he's considered didn't think they should have to be tested-because he should take their word for it.

In this case; Panther didn't even blink when I brought it up. He has no issue going in and doing the test. He has no issue using protection either because he does NOT want children.
HE hasn't said one sideways word about it.

I on the other hand am frustrated-because he was upfront with me about the herpes & we already know I have it (got it when I was 15).
So wtf is the big hoopla?

Anyway-there's a whole lot more hoopla than that.
Maca can't even look at me. He's avoiding me like the plague.

Just the same old shit as before.
Bottom line-the idea of me fucking another man sends him over the edge. Doesn't matter if I actually do or not.

Today I was trying on tops for our Halloween costumes-but tops I will wear anyway. He pops off with "I like both of them but I don't want anyone else liking them"
I replied that he can't expect no one to find me attractive that's unreasonable.
He says "I don't mind when you are with me. I like showing you off. I just don't want you dressing up for anyone else."

Well-there ya have it.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Re (from LovingRadiance):
"Maca's take is -- that if they aren't tested and a paper shown him -- they don't want to fuck me bad enough to have the privilege."

Sounds Maca sees it as a rite of initiation.

Re (from LovingRadiance):
"Maca can't even look at me. He's avoiding me like the plague."

Huh wha? I thought he was getting along better with you. Didn't you guys get some things worked out when you visited him in Kodiak?

Re:
"Just the same old shit as before."

What shit is that? "I can't trust LR" shit? "LR can't be trusted? LR's a cheater? etc."

Re:
"Bottom line -- the idea of me fucking another man sends him over the edge. Doesn't matter if I actually do or not."

So, this isn't about honesty for him? This is about jealousy? some kind of perception that fucking another man "soils" you in some fundamental way?

Re:
"I like showing you off. I just don't want you dressing up for anyone else."

Is, then, his way of loving you to own you? and are you okay with being a piece of prized property to him?

What's the plan if he refuses to consent to any future poly relationships? or is a test and a paper adequate compensation in his mind? I don't mean to talk trash about the man, but I wish I could understand him better.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I don't know. I can't understand him.
I can't even answer well tonight.

We HAD worked things out well and had a great weekend in Kodiak.
He came home and he's on a bent.
I just don't know.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Yuck. Hopefully that bent's a temporary thing.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
We talked today. It didn't accomplish more than just saying what was going on.

But basically what he said is that he's never been OK with being poly, he was tolerating it.
He is so turned off by the IDEA of me being with another man he's having issues getting hard and staying hard when he's with me.
When he's with another woman he's more excited by me and more interested etc.
But when he thinks about me being with another man he wants absolutely nothing to do with me.

He can't stop thinking about that possibility since he came home because everything triggers him thinking about Panther (which has a lot to do with the fact that we've been GOOD friends for 26 years IN this town-so we have a lot of common "stomping ground" and memories that Maca is aware of).

He can't handle hearing Haelstorm (one of my favorite bands) because he knows I went to the concert a year or so ago, with Panther.

He says he got to a point where he could deal with GG because GG was never "really competition" he couldn't "live up to" Maca (his words-I didn't ask).

I'm PRETTY CONFIDENT that the topic he's actually referencing in the last one has to do with the fact that GG is submissive and Panther is not. Panther also is NOT into BDSM at all. But he's naturally more dominant than GG... pretty much everyone is...
Anyway-that sends Maca over the edge.

MY impression and understanding is that he "tolerated" the idea of me being with GG because he saw GG is being "beneath him" & he feels he has a strong claim on me because of our D/s relationship.
BUT because I've expressed having NO desire to have ANY relationship with any man whose submissive ever again-that takes the "special" away from his Dominance.

The conversation ended on the note of him saying he doesn't want to be without me and he doesn't want a separation or divorce but he is miserable with me because I'm not interested in ever having a mono relationship.
PRIMARILY because he's not ok with me being with another man.

I asked him what he wants to DO about trying to resolve that. Because if he isn't interested in not being with me-that leaves changing the way he feels about me-who I am-what I have to offer-which does NOT include monogamy.
He said "I'm working on that" & that was the end of it....


A million thoughts-most of them pissy, sarcastic, rude and unproductive.
I was in tears on the way home (it was a several hour drive).


I am SO tired of dealing with people-any people-who can't accept me for who I am.

I mean seriously-if I'm not what you want; why drag me along?
ARGH.

No idea where this is all going to go.
I did point out to him several things;
A) that every time he says "maybe I'm not the guy for you" which he did again today; I hear "I think we should split up" and that he needs to stop being vague.
He said that he was "just trying to give me an out". I pointed out to him-that I don't fucking want an "out". That I already know I WANT to be with him and dont want to split up. That if HE wants to split up because HE can't handle who I am-that is a wholly different matter and if I knew that was what he meant-then I would deal with that from the perspective of how to make that happen most equitably and gently for all of us.
But it wasn't ever what I wanted and I didn't need him passive aggressively trying to push shit HE thinks I might want.
At which point he got somewhat defensive that it isn't what he wants. He just thought I might.

B) I pointed out that I can't even make plans for school or our kids schooling or moving or anything while he's in "i just don't know if I can do this" mode. That he needs to DECIDE what he's going to do-commit to it and then stick to it. WHATEVER "it" may be.

I pointed out that its been over 5 years. He always freaks out over ME being with anyone else. Actually any time I CONSIDER anyone else. He has no issue when HE is considering someone else.
I've insisted he move out in the past, he's lived on his own for up to a year & every time it comes down to not wanting to NOT be with me. So he returns and he's "all in". Until the next go around.
It's a cycle.
The only way to break it is to GET HELP TO LEARN TO BREAK THE CYCLE. Because OBVIOUSLY he doesn't know how to do it HIMSELF. Which is fine-but GO GET HELP DAMN IT.

Anyway-I'm exhausted. Frustrated. Tired. Lonely. Emotional. And I have my grand kids for the next two days. I'm going to bed.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Hummm.

So Maca is okay with poly as long as he is the alpha male? Is that why Maca confronted Panther in the first place? to establish Maca's superiority in the pecking order?

If other men somehow acknowledge Maca as "their leader," will he then be okay with their involvement? and if so, does that sound like a dynamic that you'd be willing to accept?

Is that a dynamic that Panther would choke down?

Or is it worse than that, and Maca has to be "The Winner" while any other man has to be "The Loser." The other man isn't allowed to have any self-confidence at all, is that it?

Will Maca get therapy for this? (Sorry about all the questions, just ignore any that are too probing.)
 
I've been reading your blog for a while and silently rooting for all in your household - you in particular, LR. I have long been in awe of the level of care, attention and dedication that you show to all of your loved ones.

But basically what he said is that he's never been OK with being poly, he was tolerating it.

I think that this has been a common thread throughout your writing. Maca tolerated GG - with great difficulty at times. You've written about having fears sometimes for GG's safety and about how the two men cohabit, coparent but are not friends.

I wonder if even though you and Maca share a strong, loving bond that you are, or have become, incompatible with each other.

The struggles you describe where you cannot be mono and Maca finds poly incredibly difficult read like the sorts of struggles that some couples have when one desperately wants a baby and the other wants nothing to do with babies. Nobody's fault but it is unlikely that those people would be happy together. Of course, I'm just reading at a distance on the internet, knowing none of you and can't truly understand but that is increasingly the impression I get from reading here.

I wish you luck and for a change in situation.

IP
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
Hummm.

So Maca is okay with poly as long as he is the alpha male? Is that why Maca confronted Panther in the first place? to establish Maca's superiority in the pecking order?

If other men somehow acknowledge Maca as "their leader," will he then be okay with their involvement? and if so, does that sound like a dynamic that you'd be willing to accept?

Is that a dynamic that Panther would choke down?

Or is it worse than that, and Maca has to be "The Winner" while any other man has to be "The Loser." The other man isn't allowed to have any self-confidence at all, is that it?

Will Maca get therapy for this? (Sorry about all the questions, just ignore any that are too probing.)

I think he just flat can't accept poly. That's my opinion.
He has to be the winner in everything.
He did tell Panther-when he confronted him that he could consider a threesome-if HE planned it and HE controlled it and Panther basically followed his lead.

Bottom line-I am not willing to play that sort of open relationship.
I don't know what he would say in response to these questions any more.
I have asked him in the past to see a therapist for his control issues and he insecurity issues (which are all wound up together).
He has only ever been willing to consider therapy as a couple and even then his attitude was that it was just so I had someone to talk to.
So-no I don't have a reason to believe that he will see a therapist.

AND

Just like GG-I can't push for it any more. Either it's important to him or it's not. But he has to decide. I HAVE TO STOP. I can't be the one who pushes for other people's self-improvement.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
IP

I told him today-the only thing for us to discuss is "are we compatible" because the things he's said this week suggest strongly that we aren't.

I told him I'm never going to be willing to be mono with anyone.


his last message to me was that he's never going to be ok with a partner who can't be ok where he's working after he's worked hard to set up a place for them and then call and say they are lonely and want to fuck someone else and "I get it, I'm not enough for you".

I didn't reply.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I was already heartbroken and struggling.
I just watched everything I THOUGHT was stable fall to pieces AGAIN.

I don't have words for where I am now.
There's no way to describe it.

Emotional flooding doesn't even touch it.

Everything I have been working towards with moving, school, marriage, kids, relationships, all of it fucked.

I can't do school in this mess... can't possibly help Sweet Pea get shit handled for him to go to college in Cali-can't manage the move like this... both of my long term relationships are ending.

The only questions at this point are-
how fast can I find a job
can i find one that makes enough to pay for the car loan and my expenses
whose keeping the house

I'm totalled.
I was already broken.
I'm totalled.
 

SNeacail

New member
his last message to me was that he's never going to be ok with a partner who can't be ok where he's working after he's worked hard to set up a place for them and then call and say they are lonely and want to fuck someone else and "I get it, I'm not enough for you".

You did say he's been talking to the 24yr old troublemaker again... If I remember he got pissy and unreasonable like this last time she was in the picture. Could also be his depression talking, but until he's ready to get his ass to a therapist, there's nothing you can do.

((Hugs!))
 

YouAreHere

Active member
Words aren't enough, LR. Hugs. My thoughts are with you.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
You did say he's been talking to the 24yr old troublemaker again... If I remember he got pissy and unreasonable like this last time she was in the picture. Could also be his depression talking, but until he's ready to get his ass to a therapist, there's nothing you can do.

((Hugs!))

Yes he is.
Yes that is exactly what happened before.
And no I can't do a thing with any of it.

He has a right to decide what he will/won't deal with in himself.
He has a right to decide what he wants/doesn't want in a relationship.

He's blaming it on me, telling me he will never be ok with someone wanting to fuck other people because they are lonely (even though I didn't even ASK to fuck someone else).

But the thing is-all of that is just passive-aggressive ways of saying that he's not ok with me being non-monogamous. He's not ok with sharing his lovers.

It would certainly be simpler to just say "yes I love you-no I don't want a non-mono relationship and never will so lets find an equitable way to end things".
But yeah-that isn't going to happen.

Still the same end result-just has to be a bigger mess and a lot more bullshit and drama. Instead of just looking into oneself, figuring out what it is you need/want in a relationship, stating and it and then finding someone who meets those criteria-and gently ending things with those who don't.

I tried to be upfront and honest. In 2009 I told him I wasn't going to be nonmono again, that if he wanted a divorce I would understand. That I hoped we could have a nonmono relationship and be happy together; but I understood that wasn't what we had originally agreed to and if he wasn't agreeable I wouldn't hold it against him or cause issues with property/kids/custody/$$ etc.

NOW I've got an additional 5 years out of the workforce fucking me over financially and in an even shittier position to find myself trying to pick up the pieces and start over.

But it is what it is. Right?
Accept reality first.
Sigh.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I told him my limit that I'm never goign to be mono again (with examples of what I mean) he says that there's nothing left to say.
I reply-no sarcasm-trying to be reasonable;
then we need to figure out whose moving out and how to split responsibilities/property kids etc
and he pops off with
"if that's how you feel".

FUCKING STOP THE PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE BULLSHIT DAMN IT

I'm so not fucking UP TO DEALIGN WITH IT

If I say "here's my hard limit" and you say "not acceptable" that means we aren't compatible so we need to walk our separate fucking ways.
Don't be an ass.

Either we are or we are not compatible. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH EMOTIONS. Nthing to do with how I feel or how he feels or how anyone feels.

It has to do with concrete actions and which ones we are willing to CLAIM.

Which is one of the arguments boiling around all of this.

He chose to stay.
In my opinion; once you agree to something it becomes YOUR CHOICE.
You can always change your choice.
But you don't have the privilege of blaming someone else for "making you" be there if you CHOOSE to be there.

It wasn't HIS FAULT I was in Kodiak and not ok. I CHOSE to go. It was MY CHOICE. Together we agreed that it wasn't healthy for me and me staying there was damaging to my mental health and sent me home. BUT it wasn't HIM forcing me to do something I didn't "want" to do. EVEN THOUGH he knew I didn't "want" to go to Kodiak;
I CHOOSE to go so it was MY fault I was there. It was MY choice. No one else's.

Likewise; yes he was clear he didn't "want" an open relationship. He has the option of leaving. By CHOOSING to stay; he CHOOSE an open relationship. So it's not MY FAULT if he was miserable and hates it and whatever.

FUCKING BULLSHIT.
 

SNeacail

New member
Time for a giant white board in the living room with the whole concept in flow chart (electronic schematic) format. I totally get the frustration with the passive-aggressive BS and the subsequent back pedaling when they get called on irrational pronouncements. Drives me FUCKING Bat-shit crazy.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
no
i can't do it any more
I've done everything i can to understand and to believe and to compromise and i can't do it anymore

i can't be so impossible to accept just because i don't want a white picket fence and a monogamy.

I can't do it any more

I can't even stop crying long enough to keep the kids from seeing

im so tired of trying to be good enough for a world that i can only be good enough in if I only want one lover

I'm so tired of fixing everyone elses emergencies

I'm broken down

honesty isn't enough
considerate isn't enough
loving isn't enough
devoted isn't enough
compromising isn't enough
waiting to be SURE we were solid, stable through two years of things going smoothly-isn't enough

I told him I need to know if he's moving out or I am
He's furious
giving me ice cold one line responses

I'm sobbing on the couch while my grandson climbs all over me.
My 14 year old (who managed to miss all of this because he's been gone to a friends place) is standing in the kitchen watching in silence.

I feel like someone sucker punched me a dozen times in a row.

If honesty results in this bullshit-because no one else will DO THE WORK on themselves to be honest back-whats the point


I know i fucked up having an affair

i have owrked so damn hard to work on me
to make myself take responsibility to be a better person
to be accountable for my choices
to think things through and avoid saying things I don't mean
to follow through on my promises
to not make promises so lightly
to not lie
not sneak
not hide
anything about me

to be authentic
to be real
and to know me well enough to not lie to others about me-because i was lying to myself

but who else does/
cause im having a hard time with finding people in real life who do the same

i hear people say they have the same struggle
but they are people who are so fucking far away.....

i don't even know if its true. maybe they are online-but in real life they don't. i have no clue
 

SNeacail

New member
i hear people say they have the same struggle
but they are people who are so fucking far away.....

i don't even know if its true. maybe they are online-but in real life they don't. i have no clue

They are hard to find in real life, it's not just you.

((Hugs!))
 
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