Just LR

kdt26417

Official Greeter
I should add, I think you are passing through a profound grieving process. There are many steps to go through, especially when any one step will probably have to be endured many times. I think it is natural to expect that there will be times when sobbing is all you can do.

You are losing the loves of your life, and the dreams that seemed to be finally within reach. I am not giving up hope for the future although I suppose it will be a future with different dreams, or dreams differently-shaped and differently-achieved. But for me, that's easy to assume. For you, you are right in the middle of it. I know they don't mention this step but I think hopelessness is one of the steps you'll have to go through -- probably many times.

And I know that's probably what you're going through right now.
 

wildflowers

New member
LR, very sorry to read about how much you've had to deal with lately. You've put such tremendous effort into resolving and fixing situations - I wish you were having more positive outcomes . Like many here, I'm rooting for you and hoping that things become easier soon.
 

reflections

New member
Loving Radiance, I know I am fairly new to this site. But I was reading your last few posts, emphasizing with all the pain you've been going through. And I just wanted to share something with you, if that was alright.

I saw that you have an incredible 93 pages on this blog, and there was no way that I'd be able to read them all to get fully caught up on your struggles. So I went back to the first page, trying to understand what started your blog. What I found was a beautiful post, your first real post after your discussion of communicating, where you talked about how powerful it was that someone said you were "just LR." Not odd, not abnormal, just you. I don't mean for this to bring back painful memories, if it does, but I thought that statement was so moving. And connects back to your current struggles of feeling not normal. You are who you are. You are you. It's all each of us can ever be. I wonder if thinking back to that statement, seeing yourself in that light again as you did when you created this blog, "just LR," might be an important reminder. I apologize if any of this is from out in left field, but I thought it was a touching form of self-compassion for us all to draw from during difficult times.

Wishing you only the best during this incredibly hard time.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
That was my baby brother who said it. Funny irony-he pretty much said it again on my fb today-though I didn't post there what I wrote here.
Guess there was some channeling of thoughts in the universe today.

I am trying very hard to keep in mind that I just am who I am.
It IS difficult.
Because who I am hasn't been good enough for many of those I love.

I am also trying to focus on the MANY people who are stepping up to say it is ok that I am who I am, that they are here to listen, share a hug, offer a shouldr to cry on.

Somehow; I seem to be treasured as a friend. Not so much as a lover.
Although all of my lovers, ex-lovers now, have all said, even as they exit left-
That they will always love me, thatthe best times of their lives were with me.
But the breaking point for most is an inability to handle my open-mind, my bisexuality &/or my polyness.

I think at some point it may be pertinent for me to take note that the things they can't handle about me are actually the same things that drew them in to begin with.
My passionate, exhuberance, love & compassion for people. My devotion and loyalty to my friends & family. These things draw them to me like a moth to the flame.
But they are scorched because they want it all to themselves & that is impossible. The heat of a well tended fire warms all who are near. The light of a single candle can guide many people all from various directions.

Panther said "it is what makes you unique LR"
I replied "yes. But unique is ery lonely sometimes"

I have to let go. Again.
I need to accept others as I long for them to accept me.

Accepting their inability and or unwillingness to focus on personal improvement hurts me; because it leaves us at a stalemate, a standstill. It leaves us irrevocably incompatible.

I love them. I keep reminding myself to focus on what I myself can do. Which is very little in regards to these two situations. It hurts. I want to beg and plead and scream and yell and demand.
But that won't accomplish the necessary lasting chsnges.
So I have become frighteningly quiet.

This time I have struggled through my fear of being a failure in the eyes of others and forced myself to reach out saying i am broken and i need help. The outpouring of emotional support, encouragement but most importantly reminders thst I am not alone, reminders that people do want to be here for me if i just ask.

I havent gotten to asking for anything because the encouragement I am recieving IS what I need most right now (and a job).

I am not spinning quite so frighteningly after two days nestled in the safety of my friends love and support.
Tomorrow I will try to write back specific people and create a todo list for the next week, create a resume, get some apps turned in.

Thank you.
The hardest part today is knowing they each want to work it out. I want to work it out. But the terms havent changed.
Their terms are deadly to me.
My terms are unacceptable to them
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Bargaining is one of the official stages of grief. Desperate last-ditch efforts to come to a compromise somehow. You'll probably visit this stage more than once. While not physically attempting to bargain with Maca or GG, I'm sure your mind is racing around, looking for any new bit of information that might make working it out possible. Internally, your mind is trying to bargain with this unbelievable loss.

GG wants to push the rewind button on life. Maca wants to push the erase button on poly. (Your poly at least.) These are not foundations that you can build on. The stage Maca and GG are in is denial. "Let's pretend like everything is fine, for if we do, the problem will just go away."
 

redpepper

New member
Aw LR, I'm so sorry you are in pain :( It makes me sad for you. I am so glad you are writing here and taking the chance to be supported by your on-line friends :) chin up girl, you've been through lots but always pull through. You'll pull through this too and be stronger and wiser for it. Lots of love to you.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I finished my resume today with some help from my sister.
I've been fighting a migraine for two days.
I'm going to go back to bed within the hour.

Tomorrow I will start putting in applications.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
I hope things go well with the applications, and that the headache will recede. (That's not fun.)
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
Headache receded thankfully. However now my laptop is having issues connecting to the internet. I did manage to get a couple online applications sent in today.
Everything else is still a mess.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
Every morning I wake up to Maca's alarm clock between 5-5:30am he sits on the bed to get dreessed. I tried putting a bench in our room for him to sit on, but he mever used it so I gave up. I just lay here while the bed bounces and wait until he leaves and things are calm and quiet again. Then I try to go back to sleep. Since this most recent drama, it is impossible for me to sleep. So I lay here for a couple hours going through the whole thing in my head. In theory to find some sort of better understanding. But realistically it just repeats, still makes little to no sense to me & wastes my precious hours of sleep.

He wants to do therapy "for a year". During which time we will have no other lovers. I can remain in the house with the kids and continue working on school. At the end of a year if we decide our relationship can't be recreated through coming to a resolution in regards to our incompatabilities; I find work and move out.
He suggested a deal that I name a dollar amount of support I would need to finish my bachelor defree at that time & he will provide it if I agree to sign off on him keeping all of his retirement...

In the meantime, we are sharing space until he leaves for Kodiak on Monday. He will return for December, go back to Kodiak in January until April or May...

I have to wonder how exactly we can possibly do therapy under those constraints. Not that it is impossible. But it would certainly require him to make a very large and concerted effort to make it possible.

And I am left wondering, does the year start this month-or does it start when we start therapy?
Is it worth the risk to NOT seek work right now, and continue with school?
Is it worth the risk of taking a job and quitting school?

Every day I see my dream car in our driveway. The car I couldn't have, but he bought on October 20th after telling me he was done, he couldn't be with me any more and we agreed to separate.
My resentment and fury grow.
I want to scream at him "how could you DO THAT". I want to beat the car to smithereens with a baseball bat as the tears of hurt pour down my cheeks. He has never had any interest in that type of car. It has always been my dream. A dream ruined with the blight of him deciding he doesn't want to be with me, that all of the hard work I have put in to better myself is not good enough for him.

He tells me yesterday he needs to get off and requests to have uninterrupted time in the bedroom. Ok, whatever. But damn. I can't even dream of sex. I don't even want anyone, ANYONE, to touch me. Not even a hug. I am so hurt, so angry, so completely uncertain of who I can trust.

We have a king size bed and since this started we have simply segregated the bed and remained on our own sides. In the past I have always gone to the couch. But its fucking freezing cold so I have stayed right here; sleeping fully clothed, wrapped in my own pillows and blankets.
But every few days he reaches for me in the night. I move away wondering "HOW can you NOT realize that any trust I had gained for you went FLYING OUT THE WINDOW with the insanity you disayed in the last month?"
HOW can he not see that in return for forthright, honesty I have been emotionally beaten to the ground, had my friends verbally attacked and threatened in such a vile manner that they don't feel safe having face to face contact with me, had my dreams (car, school, moving, retirement plans) shattered into powder at my feet, had any and all security in our relationship, my home, my family destroyed...
And as if that wasn't damaging enough;
All by the man I entrusted with my submission, in addition to everything else.

I cringe when anyone reaches towards me now. The same way I did after I was raped.
My sense of safety and confidence in that safety has again been destroyed.

And why? What for?

Because he allowed his insecurities to get the best of him and flew into rage after rage, lashing out at me, lashing out at my friends, destroyjng everything we built because he was afraid of losing CONTROL over me, over sho I choose to love, over who I choose to share my body with.

NOT because I DID ANYTHING with anyone else
Because he was afraid I would & he doesn't want me to.
Because he made agreements for a poly dynamic that HE DOESN'T like
Because he doesn't like the people I am attracted to.

Not because I did anything wrong.
But my WHOLE LIFE has been negatively impacted and large larts destroyed because HE couldn't control his own behavior in response to his own emotions which were driven By his own insecurities, fears and issues.....

WHAT THE FUCK.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Do you think there's any chance that therapy will help? and by help I mean, help Maca fix his attitude about poly and the people you care about? because I'm not seeing what you need to work on; I suppose everyone can work on something but basically this is a question of whether Maca will change (a lot) for the better. Is that a realistic possibility?

There's this thing you can get, it's a small hammock-type thing with its own frame so it can sit (suspended) on the floor. It's a bit spartan, but it might be a way to get you out of Maca's bed. It's quite cheap, somewhere between 20 and 50 bucks (closer to 20 I think). Might be a helpful idea, might not; thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

If you go the therapy route, I think you'll need to talk with the therapist about that dream car he bought. What it would take for him to make up for that slap in the face. And threatening (not to mention excoriating) your friends is totally not cool. He would also need to make amends for that.

I suppose if there's a chance of saving the relationship it's worth a try. If it's a real chance. Not just a carrot he'll forever dangle in front of you to keep stringing you along. There's a great big mess he needs to clean up.

You could try the therapy route for a few months and then re-evaluate whether there still seems to be any real hope that it'll work -- and if there doesn't, just tell him, "Sorry, but nevermind."

He's treated you really badly, and that's on top of his apparent inability to handle poly, ever ever ever. Oh unless it's just him doing the poly, then apparently it's okay. Which reminds me: During this therapy, is he going to cut it out with entertaining the possible romance with the 24-year-old? since he's forbidding you to do anything poly during that time frame.

It's really totally up to you whether you even want to give it a go for a few months. You'll have to decide where your trust levels are at, and what you really want at this point in your life. Maybe you're tired of depending on Maca when he acts the way he does?
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
My thought is this Kevin:

Even if the therapy doesn't help in terms of resolving the conflict so our relationship can be recreated;
we have children to raise.
Thus-we need to be able to communicate and work together for their best interests.

There's always things a person can work on.
I'm not sure that there's anything that is going to make it possible for us to come to a relationship agreement.
But I'm willing to go to therapy.

Yes-the car, the treatment of my friends, the acting out impulsively (which both of those are examples of) instead of managing/controlling his behavior. These are topics to discuss.

Also-that I cant speak about any of the things that I am impassioned about (feminism, equal rights, relationships, human rights etc) without him taking it personally.
Pretty much every word I say is run through a filter of "what the fuck is she trying to prove is wrong with me".

The other day he was telling me that the only things I ever talk to him about are things that are "wrong" with him (or our relationship). I pointed out that over the years-100s-1000s of emails I have sent him about different things I found exciting or interesting-have gone unread. Unopened. Just left sitting in the in box. Pages and pages and pages of unread messages from me.
He says he doesn't have time.
Ok-not going to argue.
BUT-if you don't have time to read anything but the most critical messages marked "critical please read asap" and you don't have time to talk about anything except the most important issues....
OF COURSE the only conversation you have with me is going to be about the critical issues.....
:cool:

So anyway-the following evening I ran across an article about sexism that was meaningful to me-and had nothing to do with any of the current issues between us. So I asked him if I could read it to him.
JUST ASKING resulted in him becoming defensive. He had to stop and think about whether or not he was up to listening.
I had said, "Is it ok to read this article I find meaningful, to you? It has absolutely nothing to do with any of the issues we're dealing with right now."

He replied in a tone of disbelief, "it has NOTHING to do with ANY of the issues we're having?"
I repeated that "no, it has nothing to do with any of them."

Then I read him the article and we started talking. He made several good points in disagreement with the article. Each time I acknowledged what made sense about his comments and then elaborated on how they could be incorporated with the article's point to a better solution (the article was fairly one sided).
He got annoyed "I told you I don't want to argue with you."
I quietly said, "I wasn't arguing with you. I was discussing something I'm passionate about."
He said "it would help if you acknowledged what I said instead of always disagreeing and trying to prove me wrong."
I replied, "I did." then I repeated what I had done to do exactly that.
He stared at the floor for awhile and then acknowledged that in fact, I had done EXACTLY that.
BUT HE HAD NOT NOTICED.

This is a COMMON issue with us.
He doesn't hear me talking about a topic of interest.
He hears me telling him all the ways he sucks.
EVEN IF THE TOPIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM.

If I express an interest in another lover-he only hears that he's not good enough.
If I express that I am bored sitting at home-he hears that he's not entertaining me.
If I express a desire to have healthier meals-he hears that he's not eating right.
If I express an interest in feminism-he hears that he's a misogynist.
If I express an interest in improving communication skills-he assumes he sucks at communication.
If I express a concern about some behavior in one of our kids-he assumes he's a bad parent.

And more specifically-he assumes that I AM SAYING he is all of those things.

Which leaves me unable to talk to him about ANYTHING that matters to me. It's a no-win situation in regards to communication and without communication, well there is nothing.

CAN those issues be resolved?
Yes.
WILL they be resolved?
NO FREAKING IDEA

Because I can't control whether or not they get resolved. I can participate and should; but me going to therapy on my own isn't going to resolve his insecurities that drive him to not even hear the words I am speaking.
Me going to therapy on my own isn't going to resolve his control issues.
Me going to therapy on my own isn't going to make it possible for him to accept who I am, or to not feel threatened by who I am, or to be able to live with who I am.

I have (and will) done therapy for myself. I have worked hard to learn what is most important to me in life, what I can do to better myself, what my weaknesses are and how to strengthen myself in those areas.

I can work with him on communication skills, I can be supportive on his journey to learn himself, strengthen himself etc. But I can't do it for him.

And I just don't know what he's *actually* willing to DO.

But you are right; I don't want a mono relationship and as it stands he can't live with me being anything but mono & that isn't sustainable.

As for the other girl-I don't believe she was ever a dating option. She isn't interested in sleeping with him. She just wants to be able to claim his attention at will. Actually its a somewhat twisted perversion of friendship; because she gets so pissed when he can't be available when it's convenient to her-but she doesn't actually have a willingness to offer anything in return.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
The worst part is;

I can't even say any of that to him.
Because he see's it as me saying "there's nothing wrong with me and you are a total fuck up".

Ironically; when I cheated, I focused all of my time and attention on changing and fixing ME because I saw the "biggest issue" in our relationship as being my deceitfulness. I worked my ass off for years to improve MYSELF because I saw MY issues as being the primary issue that needed resolved before anything else could be considered.

But-he can't seem to see that. He only see's that I am blaming him.

He can't see that now; the biggest issue in our relationship is his insecurity & lack of self control.

Thus-yes; the focus is on "what is wrong with him" NOW. But that is part of life; we are all on a journey and we all find along our path that we are the "weak link" and we have to do some work to strengthen ourselves and improve ourselves. Then someone else is the weak link and we help & support them in improving and strengthening themselves..... and it repeats...
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
It sounds like he could use some improvement in the listening department.

As for his therapy proposal, I was assuming he meant for you and him to both attend therapy as a couple. If he only wants you to go to therapy, then I'd give him a big fat NO.

I guess as long as he's going to continue to be in your life (as a co-parent if nothing else), then there's probably some benefit to doing therapy -- *as long as* he's attending and it's not just you.

I wonder if the car thing was a stick + carrot tactic. "Stick with me babe and you'll get this cool car; break up with me and no car for you."
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
I'm going to differ in that even if he only wants YOU to attend therapy? Go. You certainly could use the extra support right now. Whether you intend to stay for a year more or even if therapy helps you make a better plan for leaving this situation sooner.... Fresh eyes and more support could not hurt. You guys do need to arrive at a coparenting plan at minimum.

Don't sign anything till you see a mediator/lawyer type person either. Debts and assets incurred during the marriage are a shared thing to me -- and you are still in shock mode.

Galagirl
 
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YouAreHere

Active member
I agree with GalaGirl - definitely continue to take care of yourself. Like you said, you can't change and fix him - he needs to do that himself, but you can still lean on every avenue you can in order to strengthen yourself.

And, I know it's not the stuff that's easy to hear, but the advice to see a mediator/lawyer is also good. Even if nobody's out to "get" each other during a separation/divorce, you can still find yourself getting bitten by things. Community property, etc. Heck, even taxes (I had 4 dependents up until the divorce was final in November. I ended up with 2 dependents at file time. Since I'd had 11 months worth of having too little (now) taken out of my taxes, it cost me over $4k).

I'm sorry you're going through all this, LR, but I'm glad you're continuing to do the things that will help support you through it all (keeping in touch with friends, continuing with therapy, etc.). Thinking of you...
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
I suppose GalaGirl has a point: Even if you get therapy and Maca doesn't, the worst that could come out of it is you could get some advice on how to handle Maca (and GG) while the breakups are pending and processing, as well as how to handle your own grief, depression, sorrow, panic and/or whatever else you're dealing with during this very horrific time. As a perk you might also get some professional vindication/validation, in case that helps.

Although, for the record, I think it stinks if Maca's not willing to see a therapist himself. I suppose if he could find a staunchly anti-poly therapist he'd go for it. :mad:
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
He isn't asking me to do therapy-he's asking for us to do it together.

But yeah-I know it's beneficial regardless-in one way or another.

I'm not unaware of the legal aspects. I spent over 10 years on a volunteer basis typing, filing and advising on divorce/custody issues here. I am well versed in the legal ramifications in our state.

His lawyer is the person I worked with.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Well, try the joint therapy thing. Should be at least a little bit helpful.
 
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