Just LR

LovingRadiance

Active member
I researched therapists in our area-who we haven't seen, who are AT LEAST LGBT-friendly.
I sent a few messages giving a VERY brief outline that we are in an open marriage, seeking help with communication and problem solving, severe insecurity issues, anger management, possessiveness/control issues- That one of us will be out of town for most of the next 6 months & will need to work by skype or phone,
& asking if this was something they felt comfortable working with.
One lady responded within a few hours and offered to meet us together on Monday (before he flies out) so she can meet both of us in person first & discuss if we are BOTH comfortable working with her etc.
I went ahead and scheduled the appointment.


Parent teacher conferences were today. I went-even though Sour Pea has only been there 5 days. Had a great discussion with the teacher. She's very advanced in math and reading. She needs some work on handwriting (already knew that) but she's already improving (we've been working on that after school). Teacher was very impressed.

Now-to go drop boxes at my moms old work, find a dog house, that I can heat-because 11 degrees is too damn cold for my puppies to be outside without access to heat & then trick or treat with the kids.....
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
We will see. After two straight hours of arguing because he wants me to understand that his behavior was all a result of the combined bullshit and he isnt "evil or bad"
I am too pissed off to see MY EFFORTS to find a therapist as being hopeful

PERSONAL ACOUNTABILITY.

It doesn't matter what else is going on-attacking others (verbally or physically) is not acceptable
He is bent because I "dont seem to care"
No-I dont care WHY.
Its not acceptable behavior.

AND

Its arbitrary.
mono/not mono.
Resolve or no.

The rest is just arguing to be on top.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
I wonder if he anticipates the therapist calling him on his shit and he wants to win that argument before his first appointment.

The therapist sounds promising. Maca, not so much at the moment. We can only hope he'll mellow out over time.
 

MusicalRose

Member
LR,

I just wanted to say that I am keeping you in my thoughts as well. While my situation does not in any way match yours in intensity, I see so many parallels between the types of behavior between Maca and my husband and GG and an ex-boyfriend of mine. Your situation speaks to me so much and I'm just now getting to a place of healing myself. My marriage is also coming to an end as of this past month.

I hope that you are able to keep moving toward healing as well. I hope that you are able to find a space where you are able to just be yourself, and where you are surrounded by adults who can take care of themselves.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
Maca and I attended a therapy appointment today. Immediately following it I dropped him off at the airport. He's back in Kodiak now.

Over the weekend our son had a pretty major emotional breakdown and ended up sobbing in my arms for over an hour. It had a significant impact on Maca.
The following day he spent most of the day talking while I listened about where he had gone wrong etc in this last month or so.

I'm not taking that as "everything is good now" & I made that clear. I let him know that yes, I do love him; but this isn't a NEW thing & just because there was two years between, doesn't change the fact that it's not a functional thing and needs to be dealt with.

At any rate; I think he is realizing (at the very least) that I really am seriously done dealing with the outbursts and rages. He needs to figure out what it is he needs to do to EITHER accept me for who I am with me or accept that he isn't goign to be with me. He also has to learn to manage his own behavior regardless of emotions.
BUT-those aren't MY duties to teach him.

So-again; as I have been for some time in all my relationships; I am reminding myself that it's not my job or my place to be his therapist/helper/guide. I can be supportive to some degree-as in giving positive reinforcement/encouragement. But the rest he has to do on his own or with someone who is qualified to do those things with him. Not me.

Let it go, let it go....

Yeah.
I was actually pretty proud of myself for NOT doing that while he was talking and talking this weekend. I worked hard to monitor my responses and be sure that I wasn't inputting things I shouldn't be.
It's not easy.
I see someone I care for hurting and hurting others and I want to fix the issues. But the truth is I can't fix those issues, they have to.

After taking him to the airport, I managed to get my car dropped off early to the shop (it's getting repairs tomorrow) and took a MUCH MUCH needed hike. OMG It's been TOO LONG since I got some good outdoor exercise! As much as I hate the cold; I needed it.

I'm not in school this semester and that is taking a negative toll on me. Usually I am able to take a few good long walks or hikes a week. Panther & Mr. LR (not my spouse-long story) both are able to go for walks or hikes during the day between my classes and that has been a GODSEND for me in managing my depression. But both are in town where the school is-50 miles from where I live. Since I'm not in school I haven't been doing that and guess what?
BIG ASS MISTAKE ON MY PART!

I hiked Thunderbird Falls this afternoon. It was chilly, but beautiful out. I dressed warm. Its not a long hike, maybe 1.5 miles up and then the same back. But the falls were beautiful, still flowing water over sheets of ice. I didn't need my inhaler (which was amazing in light of how often I've needed it this month). I feel like going running! It was just so damn energizing.
I really needed that.

SO what shall I do?
I am going to plan another hike for this weekend! Yes sir I am! I just have to decide where I want to go! I'm seriously considering a longer one in town, it's not rigorous, but it's longer. I think the kids would enjoy it too. :)
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
So far I see Maca as making tokenary efforts -- better than nothing but a long ways from actually correcting his behavior (and making amends).

I hope the exercise is helping you to find your center so to speak.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
Found my algebra book spent the day doing math. I KNOW its an odd geek-ism, but it really does calm and relax me.

I shared some info with Maca from a friend on fb who writes very well about her ethics in regards to relationships, personal boundaries etc.
evidently it really struck him.
He is all sorts of in a different mental space atm. Not sure where its going to go.
But interesting hearing him share his thoughts about himself. Been ages since he expressed anything about himself.
 

SNeacail

New member
Found my algebra book spent the day doing math. I KNOW its an odd geek-ism, but it really does calm and relax me.

I could use some math right now. I'm stuck with an writing class and I just can't get into it, I find myself wishing for my accounting class from last semester. At least it was logical and there was only one right answer.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
How are things going with the counselor so far?
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
The first appointment was just intake. The second appointment she asked what two topics we thought were critical to start with; Maca answered resolving the conflict between he and Panther & rebuilding trust. I agreed that those were key and we could start there.
But things got derailed because I'm adamant that I can't resolve their issues for them (or be the middle man), that it's reasonable for Panther to say he's unwilling to join in discussions while there continues to be drama between Maca and I & finally that I'm not willing to put the possibilities between Panther and I on hold "until" they resolve differences that honestly-aren't likely to ever be resolved.

However-outside of counseling I sent Maca a copy of something from a poly fb page. It outlined defining ones own boundaries/expectations for relationship and what to look for to figure out compatibility.
Evidently it really struck Maca. He's been doing a lot of personal thinking and has said he wants to talk "when I'm emotionally ready" for a conversation because he feels like he's in a place to discuss what he wants for a future.
That text came through today.

So-counseling is going brutally slow (which is typical) and we're working on figuring things out.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Sounds like Maca's got a pretty heavy-duty sit-down in mind. Are you nervous about it, or hopeful, or resigned, or ...?
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
All of the above really.

Just trying to focus on each day one at a time.
Not letting myself think about anything more than a week out-and only for planning purposes of transportation/kids/appointments.

But mostly just taking it day by day.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Yeah I hear that. I know things have been really bad, and I feel bad about that.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
"I want our home and our mutual items to ours only. I don't want to share these things with others and I would like to not have things that relate to others in our....... World.... "

I see this as a way to continue avoiding the truth of my having other relationships.

He see's my reaction as being unwilling to compromise for making him more comfortable.

Thoughts?
 

wildflowers

New member
What if you don't put any interpretation on his request? Maybe he's avoiding, maybe he's not, but maybe it doesn't matter. Could you make poly work for you within his constraints? Given your busyness and your liking for family events, I can see that perhaps not. You might also feel that were were being asked to hide who you are. Still, I think it could be useful to think about the question without adding the layer of what his motivation is.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I see it as making me pretend to be something I am not, not allowing me to be fully and authentically myself.
Which is lrecisely what I said to him.
Which is why it digressed again.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
Sent to me in PM

"AFriend" sent this to me via pm. No idea who they are, it doesn't matter much does it?

I'm forced to say this to you anonymously because frankly, as much as I love you dearly, you don't take criticism very well and I can't afford the backlash people face for challenging your views. When you talk at us, we all smile and nod because we know it's not worth getting into an argument with you. That doesnt mean we always agree with what you are saying or how you treat the people in your life. You have lots of good points but in the last couple of years your bad points have taken over.

I think that Maca has come to the end of the road and may finally be asserting his boundaries as the people who care about him have advised him to do in the past. If you want your marriage to continue, you are going to have to make some compromises because he isn't going to put up with you calling the shots any more. Sometimes I do believe that you understand how much pain and destruction you caused with the affair but a lot of the time, it seems as if you don't care. I can't see how someone could understand yet still insist on carrying on the relationship with the person they cheated on. Even though you had been given the opportunity to have everything, you still made sure that it was impossible for anyone else to have other relationships. Some who know you think it was subconscious and you did not realize what you were doing. Others see it as a sign of your possessive and selfish nature.

You can't have everything your own way all the time. You forced you and Maca into this situation by lying and cheating. He was never happy with the arrangement but put up with it because he loves you. Now it's time for you to do the right thing and understand your husband's needs. Your idea of a compromise is Maca understanding your needs and giving you everything you want without question. That's not how marriage works. I really believe he will leave you this time so if you don't want that to happen, I would start to consider the compromises. Not having sexual relations with other men in your family home is not unreasonable. It's his home too and he should have a say about what goes on there and around his kids. You end one relationship and then within a week you want to start another one with someone else around your family but anyone that Maca wants to date is not acceptable.

I know that you will probably ignore this post or delete it because you never listen when people try and tell you that you are in the wrong. I really believe Maca has had enough and will end your marriage if you don't start considering his needs too. Don't make a mistake you'll regret forever.



Edited to add; I was going to write this on your blog thread but decided that it didn't need to be public. I am just trying to stop a friend making a huge mistake.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
My response to the previous post is this:

If you can't speak to me honestly, forthrightly & authentically as yourself; then you aren't a real friend. To have a real relationship of any kind it is necessary for both parties to be able to be their authentic selves, speak their mind freely and be real in the relationship.
Clearly that isn't part of our relationship.

I know damn well that Maca is at the end of his road.
That is the point.
We agreed that we are not compatible.
NOW we have to figure out how far we have to step from one other to alleviate the issue of incompatibility, whilst still preserving what we can preserve for the benefit of ourselves and our children.

I have stated my non-negotiables. They haven't changed in 5 years.
He has figured out that he doesn't know what his are and can't possibly express them to be to decide whether or not there is any sort of compromise possible between us-until he is able to sit down with himself and figure those out.

People have told each of us repeatedly over the years to leave each other.
~I was told to leave him when he prioritized running away and leaving me to clean up the mess with his ex-wife and child.

~He was told to leave me when I had an affair.

~I was told to leave him after he brutally raped me

~He was told to leave me when I came out poly

~I was told to leave him when he repeatedly created unethical rules/boundaries in our relationship & when he then pointedly broke them.

The list goes ON AND ON AND ON.

So yeah-it's no secret.

FURTHERMORE: Our relationship has always retained the privilege for either of us to leave at will as we see fit.
&
We have at various times done precisely that.

Only he has a right, and it is also his RESPONSIBILITY to state what he needs in a relationship. I am not calling shots. I have done my responsibility which is to state MY bottom lines, my dealbreakers as the therapist asked us to. He now needs to do his.

There's no "LR trying to call all of the shots". There is LR waiting for Maca to define what his bottomlines/dealbreakers are so that we can proceed.
FURTHERMORE: he is WELL WITHIN HIS RIGHT to take until next Friday to consider that. Because that was what was agreed upon in therapy. There isn't going to be any "jumping to conclusions" or "guessing" what it is he wants on my part.

The pain and destruction of my having an affair was catastrophic.
The pain and destruction of having my spouse brutally and violently rape me was also catastrophic.
The pain and destruction of having our lives torn asunder by the assault of his ex-wife on me and my daughter and our son was catastrophic.

You seem to be well versed in ONE part of our shared history. But completely oblivious to the whole of it. That's a dangerous place from which to give advice. It also leads me to believe that you aren't "my friend" or you would be much more aware of the whole dynamic and the significant damage that we have BOTH experienced (much caused by others unrelated to this situation) and caused to each other.

I am damn sure I haven't asked how anyone else feels about my carrying on a relationship with GG. It's not anyones business but mine, GG's and Maca's. Furthermore; that topic is not the topic on the table between Maca and I.

Maca has long known that if he wants to put this relationship to rest over that; I will not fight him over it.
If he wants to put this relationship to rest over me being unwilling to be monogamous-I will not fight him over it.
IN FACT Maca has known from the very first day that if he choses to leave, that is his free will. I will not meet him in court. I will not drag our kids through battles. He can do/have/be whatever he wants including fucking me over completely financially and in terms of our children-because I won't fight him.

Additionally; I absolutely did not make it impossible for Maca to have other relationships. He in fact had a beautiful relationship for 2 years with another quite lovely woman. I only know of one person who has the audacity to beleive I have EVER stopped him from dating. Because everyone who is involved in our lives in any sort of real way is fully aware that he has always been free to see whoever he pleases.
What I do stop, is him forcing ME to have relationships with people he dates JUST BECAUSE he dates them. If a friendship naturally flourishes, great. If not-so be it. Since that is something he requires as well; it's not ME taking any great thing from him.
He has CHOSEN not to date after getting his heart broken over the loss of his gf and the following dramatic disaster he created with lies and boundary breaking with someone else. But not at my request or demand.

Long before poly entered the picture he was free to date and fuck other women IN OUR MARRIAGE & did so.
So I find it amusing at best and disturbing to say the least that you have such an unaware picture of reality and yet think you are a friend.

I didn't force Maca into this situation. I offered him a divorce after the affair. Hell, I offered him the opportunity to be my fuck buddy only-which is what he wanted to begin with. I offered (and the offer stands and has been restated many times) that I will give him what he is willing to accept and I won't ask for more.
If he wants to be just coparents. So be it.
if he wants to be friends and coparents. So be it.
If he wants to be fwb and coparents. So be it.
If he wants to be bf and coparents. so be it.
If he wants to be married, living separate and coparents. so be it.
If he wants to be married, living together and coparents. so be it.
The choice is his.

He chose to be with me after he had already accepted and decided he preferred to be with me over being without me.
He remains an autonomous person with the power of free will who can choose to leave at any time.

Now it's time for you to do the right thing and understand your husband's needs. Your idea of a compromise is Maca understanding your needs and giving you everything you want without question. That's not how marriage works. I really believe he will leave you this time so if you don't want that to happen, I would start to consider the compromises.

And there is where you audaciously overstep your bounds beyond repair.
You have no idea what I do or do not understand about Maca's needs. Nor do you know why. He has been QUITE CLEAR with me that HE does not know his needs and that he KNOWS I don't know them because he checked out of his life so long ago blah blal blah. THAT is a topic he is dealing with in therapy and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it but WAIT PATIENTLY until he can clearly and concisely state what his NEEDS are.

You also have NO IDEA what my idea of compromising is. You haven't a clue what has been offered as a compromise. OBVIOUSLY.
Because NO COMPROMISE HAS BEEN DISCUSSED on account of the fact that it can't be discussed until he has a stance-and as of this moment-he does not. So there is nothing to compromise.
A compromise can't be made until both sides clearly state their place.

Evidently you also don't know "how marriage works" because "marriage" only works when both parties are allowed to define it together WITHOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD trying to put their two cents in.
When both parties ACTUALLY communicate honestly about who they are, what they need, and figure out if it's possible to get it together. Something that has NEVER BEEN DONE in our marriage-because Maca was unwilling to look deeply into himself to do those things. For reasons that came clear to him THIS WEEK & were shared with me. Reasons i understand & find to be worthy of me patiently letting him deal with figuring himself out.

He and I damn well may decide we aren't meant to be together. Having a marriage is NOT more important to me than ensuring that the PEOPLE I love and care for are able to be the best versions of themselves. If each of us is unable to continue to grow, learn and mature into better versions of ourselves together-then we NEED to be apart. ONLY if we can continue to grow and learn and improve on ourselves together should we remain together.
SOMETIMES LOVING SOMEONE MEANS LETTING THEM GO.
AND
if that is what is needed; so be it.

The piece of paper we signed means NOTHING to me compared to the health of EACH OF US.

No one said a FUCKING WORD about having sexual relations with other men (or women) in our house. THAT is not the issue at stake.
MAYBE you should read a little further or talk a little deeper with Maca about wtf the issue is, since you clearly aren't talking to me.
I AGREED TO THE REQUEST OF NOT HAVING SEXUAL PARTNERS IN THE HOUSE.
Which was a new request after the "not having sex while our partner was home" that I have ALWAYS respected (which changed after he no longer had a partner who he wanted to have sex with IN OUR BED). I did not sneak a partner in and fuck them on the livingroom floor. He did. I did not fuck another partner in our bed. he did. I did not ever have sex with someone else while he was even HERE. Audacious assumptions you make!!

I don't have any need for fucking anyone at all. But regardless, I don't need to fuck them HERE.

Do not-ever-talk to me about the decisions we make about our children. I don't even CARE who you are. No one, not Maca, not GG, not a soul on this planet can question my concerted effort at exemplary parenting of my kids.
He has the right to decide what HE does when HE has his kids and frankly-it's not my business.
I have the right to decide what I do when I have the kids and frankly-it's not his business.
That's the LAW.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
continued

You end one relationship and then within a week you want to start another one with someone else around your family but anyone that Maca wants to date is not acceptable.

What the fuck are you SMOKING?
BAILEY?
Cause seriously-he's never been told anyone he wanted to date was "not acceptable". NOT EVER.

FURTHERMORE I ended my relationship with GG BEFORE our 21st anniversary would have come around. That date was SEVEN MONTHS AGO.
I asked to see someone else almost a YEAR after ending my relationship with GG.
That's a far cry from a WEEK.
Maybe just maybe you should work on talking to more than ONE person and getting a better idea of what the fuck is going on. Cause you CLEARLY do NOT know what is going on. AGAIN.
FURTHERMORE the person I asked to date HAS BEEN AROUND MY FAMILY AS A CLOSE FAMILY FRIEND FOR 23 god damn years!

HOLY SHIT

Condescending and ignorant remarks based on less than stellar info.

I sure fucking hope he has better friends out there. Because friends who threaten partners with half-assed effort on collecting facts aren't friends. They are dangerous.


And for the record;
ending my marriage wouldn't be a huge mistake if it allows Maca and I to both become better versions of ourselves than staying in it allows.
 
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