Just LR

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Re (from Post #955):
"I want our home and our mutual items to be ours only. I don't want to share these things with others and I would like to not have things that relate to others in our ... World ..."

I take it that's what Maca said. If so, it sounds a bit like, "I might tolerate poly but only on a DADT basis." Actually a bit more extreme basis than that -- super-DADT if you will.

Re: the PM from "AFriend" ... was possibly written by the 24-year-old? It was certainly a cruel and cutting message, not to mention disingenuous. Sorry you had to get that, right in the middle of all the other Hell you have been going through.

It might be useful to print that PM, along with your response to it, and let your therapist see and analyze it. It would be hard for anyone to blame you for turning to your therapist for counsel.

You and Maca both need less drama right now, not someone stirring the pot for more drama. :mad:
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
Ironically Kev-I did print it for the therapist (and my response).
I also sent it via email to Maca.

He's PISSED OFF.
He doesn't think it's the 24 year old-even though there are several lines that are almost exact duplicates of things she wrote in the last email she sent me however many years ago that was (yes I still have them).

He thinks it is someone else who he associates with.

I told him-frankly-I don't care who it is. The point to me is that he needs to consider what he says and to whom if what he's saying leads to them mouthing off shit that is CLEARLY missing GRAVE and important details.

he's devastated that someone suggested he was going for divorce. He feels like whoever wrote it is intentionally trying to create a bigger wedge of distrust and making it harder for him to regain my trust. THAT would be one of those things that people should think about before they try to play manipulative games.

Interestingly of my REAL LIFE close friends-there aren't really any who don't have the balls to tell me to my face what they think I'm doing wrong. So I have a hard time buying into the "as much as I love you" line. But WHATEVER.

As for the DADT;Yeah-that was my impression too.
But-we haven't touched on it because we have been dealing with this stupidity today.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Re:
"He thinks it is someone else who he associates with."

Wow -- that seems pretty odd.

I guess in that case he should be more careful who he vents to -- and how he vents. A lot more careful.

This person who's "AFriend" and who "loves" you -- is this a person who's ever even met you? Claiming to love you without identifying who's saying it was a sneaky and cowardly thing for them to do.

That PM was loaded with cheap shots below the belt. It lacks smarts and elegance. It's the late-night work of a thug with a ski mask who waited in a back alley til you happened by, hit fast and hard, and then fled the scene. It's a terror tactic, the work of a two-bit mob.

Whoever did it, I'm very sorry it happened. You've been hit by a lot of crap lately that you don't deserve.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I have no idea who it is. They created the profile 11/14/14 and that pm is the only post they ever made, which was timestamped 10:10pm last night. Identified themselves as a female with a bday of 2/3/79.

And Yes-the tactic is violent communication, sneaky, chicken shit, dysfunctional behavior.

Im unimpressed.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
I agree.

As far as I can tell, the person's alleged gender and birthdate could easily be made up. Not that it matters.

I'm straining my brain to think of a good reason for "AFriend" to hide "her" identity. Can't think of one.
 

YouAreHere

Active member
Just... wow. What the ever-loving hell??

You have every right to be bullshit. Being honest and opening a line of conversation means expecting DIALOG, though, and it sounds more like a soapbox moment to me. They wanted to talk to you (or rather, "at" you), not with you. Just... hell.

Regarding Maca's request... I can't really say much, since I realize that I do the same thing. It's not DADT - I know Xena. I know (and really, really like) Noa. We all get together from time to time. In fact, I'm schlepping the kids down to see Chops and Xena tomorrow and wander through a home show. I know, accept, and love Chops for who he is, so I'm not trying to pretend he's something he's not. Still, I'm still squicky about having "Chops and Xena" stuff up in the house.

Chops has this LA Lakers shirt that I like (not because of the Lakers - because it's warm and big and his :) ), so I took to wearing it to bed some nights. He noticed me wearing it and mentioned that he got that shirt on a visit to see Xena when she still lived across the country... it had gotten colder than they'd expected, he had no long-sleeved shirts, so he found something at a souvenir stand. Which is fine. But now the shirt feels like "theirs" - it feels to me like I've walked in on one of their shared moments, and I don't like that feeling.

Maybe that's part of it for me - that I don't like to feel like an intruder (somehow) in THEIR relationship while I'm in my own space with him.

Anyhoo... just another data point from a sleepy chick whose head is starting to bob. Hoping for the best for you, LR!
 

SNeacail

New member
Holy Crap! I think I'd contact the police and report a possible stalker. Glad to hear that Maca was pissed off about this.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I could consider maintaining my "special" items in a room of my own; I already do generally.
BUT-
In combination with the rest I am guarded about theavoidance of facing who I am-which has been an ongoing theme for the entire 5 years we have been poly.

He wants no contact with my other lovers, not in our home at all, no reminders "in our world" is how he worded it-not just the house but "our world".

Yeah-I don't know. If acceptance was visibly there already it would he different. But I know how easy it is to lie to ourselves and decieve ourselves about the truth.
I don't want to create ANOTHER false relationship. I want authenticity.
 
He wants no contact with my other lovers, not in our home at all, no reminders "in our world" is how he worded it-not just the house but "our world".

I see this as a completely valid thing for Maca to want. It seems to me that he has been clear in his actions and words that he isn't happy with having a wife who has other partners and lovers. I'm sure that he very much wishes that he felt differently but he is where he is with his feelings.

If acceptance was visibly there already it would he different. But I know how easy it is to lie to ourselves and decieve ourselves about the truth.
I don't want to create ANOTHER false relationship. I want authenticity.

I also see this as utterly and totally valid for you. You also have been clear in your actions and words that you would not be happy to live the life of a monogamous wife. You want to be openly and authentically poly. Maybe you would wish that you felt differently but you are where you are with your feelings.

The problem that I see (from the limited window of reading here) is that what you want and feel are at odds with what Maca wants and feels. You try to come together and it leads to each of you upsetting the other and creating a life filled with shifting rules and regulations regarding conduct of other relationships. I think that it is hard for rules to fix things when two people fundamentally disagree on how to live a shared life.

You and Maca are so connected and care so much about each other. The love is clear in your blog. I hope that you can find a path that makes life easier for both of you and for your family.

IP
 

YouAreHere

Active member
I could consider maintaining my "special" items in a room of my own; I already do generally.
BUT-
In combination with the rest I am guarded about theavoidance of facing who I am-which has been an ongoing theme for the entire 5 years we have been poly.

He wants no contact with my other lovers, not in our home at all, no reminders "in our world" is how he worded it-not just the house but "our world".

Yeah-I don't know. If acceptance was visibly there already it would he different. But I know how easy it is to lie to ourselves and decieve ourselves about the truth.
I don't want to create ANOTHER false relationship. I want authenticity.

Ah, I missed the whole picture. My apologies.
It is easy to put our heads in the sand. The "if I ignore it, it will go away" attitude (and its little brother, "if I ignore it, it isn't happening") is the enemy of actually working through our internal "gotchas". At least acknowledging some of the things that bother him is a step. Hopefully, he continues to work on the WHY these things bother him, rather than trying to avoid them all.

But I'm a bit of a digger, so I'm kind of biased toward that. Even when the reason for doing so is sucky, and I'm hurting, I LOVE finding out new things about myself and trying to get a little bit closer into finding the butterflies that start the emotional storms. That sure isn't everyone's cup of tea, though.

I do agree with IP, that you both have valid positions, which makes this so much harder for the two of you. All I can do is offer an ear and a hug, and some positive thoughts that you'll come out of this, however you do, feeling better.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I think this is exactly right IP.

We both know we are at an impasse in terms of incompatibility. Which is why we are again apart.
But we want to find some level of middle ground where we can keep the bond we enjoy with one another AND meet the needs we each have (which are completely opposite).

This isn't going to be an easy or simple or quick resolution.

When I read it;
What I see is that we would be best off living separately.
Because; he could have his own world and invite me in at will. But my world need not be intruding upon his.

When we have lived apart in the past, to be quite honest-we have been very happy and enjoyed the camaraderie without the drama.
But-he feels torn by his belief that "husband and wife belong together" and his unwillingness to accept divorce as an option with the inclusion that we could be friends after a divorce.

It all boils down to his need to figure out what he will/won't accept. It may result in us not being in contact beyond the kids. Because I simply don't fit in his structured and strict paradigm. He wants the joy and love and affection and passion that is me; but he doesn't want what it all comes with.

If you take away what allows me to be joyful, loving, affectionate and passionate as a person (which isn't "poly"-its much more intrinsic) then what is left is a shell of a person. He's witnessed this as well and knows he doesn't want that.

He's at a stage where he's trying to figure out how to be able to keep what he loves about me; keep the light in his life; but to avoid the things he fears.

To be honest-I have never found a person who could figure that one out. But I'm willing to try with him.

I see this as a completely valid thing for Maca to want. It seems to me that he has been clear in his actions and words that he isn't happy with having a wife who has other partners and lovers. I'm sure that he very much wishes that he felt differently but he is where he is with his feelings.



I also see this as utterly and totally valid for you. You also have been clear in your actions and words that you would not be happy to live the life of a monogamous wife. You want to be openly and authentically poly. Maybe you would wish that you felt differently but you are where you are with your feelings.

The problem that I see (from the limited window of reading here) is that what you want and feel are at odds with what Maca wants and feels. You try to come together and it leads to each of you upsetting the other and creating a life filled with shifting rules and regulations regarding conduct of other relationships. I think that it is hard for rules to fix things when two people fundamentally disagree on how to live a shared life.

You and Maca are so connected and care so much about each other. The love is clear in your blog. I hope that you can find a path that makes life easier for both of you and for your family.

IP
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Re:
"What I see is that we would be best off living separately."

I agree. That way he could have a "world" without a trace of poly in it.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
Ah, I missed the whole picture. My apologies.
It is easy to put our heads in the sand. The "if I ignore it, it will go away" attitude (and its little brother, "if I ignore it, it isn't happening") is the enemy of actually working through our internal "gotchas". At least acknowledging some of the things that bother him is a step. Hopefully, he continues to work on the WHY these things bother him, rather than trying to avoid them all.

But I'm a bit of a digger, so I'm kind of biased toward that. Even when the reason for doing so is sucky, and I'm hurting, I LOVE finding out new things about myself and trying to get a little bit closer into finding the butterflies that start the emotional storms. That sure isn't everyone's cup of tea, though.

I do agree with IP, that you both have valid positions, which makes this so much harder for the two of you. All I can do is offer an ear and a hug, and some positive thoughts that you'll come out of this, however you do, feeling better.
Oh! You see; I think that is one of the things that makes things hard for us (he and I).

I am a digger too. I explained it to him as being driven. I am driven to solve a problem. Like a rubix cube, I won't remove the stickers, I will keep going until I figure it out-for hours, days, months, years.
If I encounter a problem, I will keep at it until I figure it out-endlessly. Pathologically probably.

I am driven to keep digging. Even if I have to use a temporary fix for a moment, I can never be satisfied with a temporary fix. I have to keep seeking the permanent resolution.

He is not that way ESPECIALLY in terms of internal, emotional, relationship stuff. Not at all.
It frustrates him that i can't be happy with "it's good enough" and let it go.

I feel guilty-because even when I try to do that-my mind won't let it go.

I read on average 1 book a week-outside of everything else I do. Often non-fiction books. I watch history movies, I watch documentaries, I am continuously doing school work-even when I'm not enrolled in school. I am constantly seeking more knowledge, better understanding of the world, how it works, myself, other people, how I work, how they work....
and most especially how to make things work most smoothly and efficiently.

:/

And it drives people crazy.
My professors and when I was working my supervisors LOVE LOVE LOVE that in me.

My family (except for my son) hate it.
My son is the same way.
This summer I overheard him explaining to someone something that brought me to tears.

I was in the kitchen. Remember-before May he and I have never spent more than 2 weeks apart at any given time and nearly that was only once or twice a year. But this year, between May 19 and Sept 27 we only spent 2 weeks total together (and not consecutive).
After we were both home-he says to someone;

"I just need some time with my mom. The thing is, she's the only person who really understands me. We get each other. Everyone else has some sort of issue with us, either the way we think or the way we talk or what we find funny or something. But we, well we just get each other. We don't have to explain ourselves to each other, we just know."

It's true.
It hurts sometimes.
Because he's my son and I worry that he's going to have the same struggles I have; being surrounded by people who just DO NOT "get" him.
I see it already.

He's VERY social and friendly and outgoing (just like me) but he's getting burned by the complete inability of others to accept him for who he is. They love his compassionate nature, but they want to claim it for themselves (he's does NOT do "possessiveness"). They love his fun-loving "go for broke" silliness; but they get upset because he also has a serious side and expects a certain amount of respect and civility to people who are different.
They love that he's protective of the underdog-when they are the underdog; but they are offended when he's not accepting of their use of derogatory terms and treatment of people who are another race, religion, sexuality etc.
They are thrilled when he gives them a gift. But unhappy that he does that for everyone he cares for.

Yeah-I "get" him.
But God it's a difficult road. Being so many counter intuitive things all at once.
People want you to love THEM> They don't want someone who loves indiscriminantly.
People want you to want THEM> They don't want you to want close bonds with anyone you have in your life.
People want you to protect them> They dont want you to be protective of everyone.

People want to make a claim. It's not enough that you are in their life and devoted and loyal and caring and considerate. They want to possess those things, claim them and be able to brag that those things are for THEM and them alone.

When that isn't you-when "you" is someone who just IS those things always.... That results in you being the outcast.
 

YouAreHere

Active member
Ugh, LR... I remember those, "Why isn't anything good enough for you," conversations from my ex. One of the things I love is looking into home improvements or projects - something to DO that I can invest myself in, and I get to look at and reap the benefits of later, even if it's just a damned coat of paint. I had one of those arguments when just talking about PAINTING, for crying out loud. Why can't everything be good enough? Because standing still while things go on AROUND me isn't ME. I like doing. I like learning. I like digging. I don't like stagnating. It's not how I see the world. I see it as having so much potential - so many places to see, people to meet, cultures to experience, and so much to DO.

I get it, and I get not being "gotten"... it's one of the things I really felt I needed to do for Chops as well, since I *did* fall in love with that big heart of his. I can't tell him to turn it off now that he's with me... doing so would only make him a shell of the person I fell in love with in the first place, if it even worked (which it wouldn't).

Still, Maca seems to be getting pretty close to where he may have to own what he's feeling. I'm hoping the therapy continues to help. It sounds like there's been progress.
 

MusicalRose

Member
I can also strongly relate to that feeling of people never quite getting it, always wanting to make a claim, and not realizing that by making that claim they'd be destroying everything it is they love about me in the first place.

My STBX husband sounds so incredibly much like Maca. He loves me, he loves everything I'm about, he doesn't want to lose all the good things we have, but he has to have someone that cares about him more than anyone else, that is willing to give him tokens of primaryship and exclusivity. He has to have a possessive claim on something no one else can take. And I won't give that to him.

I had been asking him to make a choice for many years, telling him not to marry me if he didn't want to accept these things about me. Then as soon as he got the ring on my finger he started yelling about how selfish I was being and about all that he had compromised for me and now I needed to compromise for him. He also asked for stricter rules that I followed and he broke.

My heart goes out to you every time I read this blog. It's so hard after only being with him six years and married for five months, I can't imagine how much harder it is for you now. But you're doing it, and it seems like this is the right thing to do. But I don't need to tell you that, because I can read in the tone of your writing that you already know. I know that certainty too, that point of no return when I hit it.

Keeping you in my thoughts and hoping you are to meet sources of joy and happiness on your path that outnumber the sources of pain and stress.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
Very well put.
It's nice in a "still disturbing" way to know I'm not the only one who has or is struggling with these types of things.

One more day survived.
on my way to take the boy to the range.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I am moving out.
I dont know where or how yet.
Maca is going back to Kodiak in two months time. While he is go e, I will stay here with the kids. When he is here, I will be by to do school with Sweetpea, meet Sourpeas bus after school. But will not be staying here.

He says he is not ok with an open relationship.
I am not ok with a closed relationship.

He says "there's no turning back".
I said I won't predict the future by closing the door on possibilities.

In the meantime; we can't compromise where we stand.

I have already been looking for work. Now I add places to live. :/

My heart hurts so bad.
He can't believe or feel that he is so very much the love of my life.
Loving him means stepping away, becUse my polyness hurts him.
But its fucking not what I want & it hurts so bad.
:(
 
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