Just LR

LR, I'm sorry. I know this wasn't what you wanted. Please be good to yourself.
 
So sorry, LR... (((hugs)))
:(
 
One day at a time, right? Found something on FB today that so well describes me. But I don't know how to copy-paste it in my phone.

Anyway, I fell apart, sobbed uncontrollably. But I did not fall into the hopeless place of depression, just hurting and letting myself feel the pain.

SweetPea said something to me-- that he makes himself feel the pain so he doesn't "go cold." It clicked. I'm trying to use it.
 
*hug* Sending supportive thoughts up your way.
 
Sorry to hear the situation has progressed to this. I know you worked really hard at trying to make things work.

More hugs.
 
I've always liked your writing, LR. There's never been too much ego in it, and you've painted people around you about as objectively (it seems) as a person can while being in a swirl of their own emotions. That's rare on the internet, so I've appreciated you that much more.

Nothing is ever over until one of you is dead, so it's still possible that you can both find a compromise like good partners do in difficult times. And since you both still do love each other, I'm guessing one of you will budge a little and the other will match them, and the pendulum will start swinging back the other way eventually. The reason why I think that is that you've done it before, based on what I can tell. Both of you are incredibly stubborn and hard-headed, based on your writing, but to the core you seem like good people. I'm rooting for you both to heal up quickly after the dust settles from these recent events.

And if worst comes to worst and this is the end of it for you both as a couple, you've both certainly had a memorable ride with a lot of joy and happiness experienced along the way. Not bad at all.
 
Thank you, Monkeystyle. I think my personality type has a lot to do with how I write AND how I perceive people in my life, even when I am struggling through the hurt. I am an ENFJ. If you haven't, check out the book "Please Understand Me II." It has a WEALTH of information about the different personality types. The things you mention about me (and my writing) are key components of my personality type, which is an Idealist Teacher. :)

I am currently losing myself in the book again. Not completely randomly. A "curiosity killed the cat moment" struck me and I re-took the test (nothing new, same results even though it's been years since I did it before). I am re-reading the section that describes myself.

It just so happens that Panther is also an Idealist, though he is a Counselor Idealist (he's an I where I'm an E). Excitingly, Sweet Pea took the test and he's a ENFP, which is a Champion Idealist. So, ironically, all three of us struggle with feeling like no one *really* understands us. Panther's personality type is 1% of the population. Mine is 2% and Sweet Pea's is 2-3%. Hilarious, in a relieving, but sort of sad way.

The other irony I found is that one of the key reasons that Maca seems soooo unable to trust Panther is the conflict in their personality types. There's far too much to explain, but one small nugget that sticks out as meaningful is this one about Idealists.

"When frustrated by their idealism, or when treated unjustly, Idealists can become quickly irritated and they will respond furiously, the fire of their enthusiasm suddenly flaring out in anger."

There's no question that Maca treated Panther unjustly. In the span of about 5 weeks he managed to shock, hurt and offend him several times with his lashing out defensively and attacking Panther in his fear of losing me. Panther's reaction has been to completely shut down communication with him.

Maca sees this as an affront. He doesn't see that Panther doesn't owe him acceptance of his apologies. Nor does he see that Panther may have good cause for feeling that if Maca is "really sorry" he will fix the issues between him and me, and his actions with me will make that obvious OVER TIME. Panther sees the continued drama between Maca and me as proof that, in fact, Maca has not dealt with his shit, and therefore his apology is meaningless. THAT is also a screaming response of an Idealist personality, because Idealists prize love, benevolence, authenticity of self and empathy very highly.

Additionally, because of our long-standing friendship, Panther sees Maca's actions and behavior towards me as personally offensive, because those actions are destructive to me and he loves me.

Maca is not an Idealist. He is a Guardian Inspector. His personality type is stoic, pessimistic, fatalistic, and prizes dependability, beneficience, respectability, security, authority, belonging, gratitude. The things he is looking for to "trust" Panther are things that he can't easily find.

Neither knows the other's personality, in terms of the book or in general, because they are also both introverts and thus have never really made any strong effort to get to know each other. Panther has tried repeatedly to invite Maca out BECAUSE his friendship with me matters. But Maca has declined. However, because Panther is an introvert, and most of our communication has been one on one, Maca sees him as being "not very involved" in my life, which isn't true either.

Sigh.

At any rate, I'm stepping away from the immediate emotionally-draining drama. I put in my resume all over this week. Now I am losing myself in reading and crafts for the weekend.

I think the happiest thing about the book is Sweet Pea doing the test. His sudden eye-opening "THATS WHY" moments and the sudden understanding of why it is that we "click" so well and why we understand each other when others don't has been so wonderful to see him experience, like a little oasis of "I'm not fucked up, Mom!" that he really needed. :)
 
LovingRadiance said:
Thank you Monkeystyle. I think my personality type has a lot to do with how I write AND how I percieve people in my life, even when I am struggling through the hurt.
I am an ENFJ. If you haven't, check out the book "please understand me II" It has a WEALTH of information about the different personality types & the things you mention about me (and my writing) are key components of my personality type, which is an Idealist Teacher. :)
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I am a strong believer in MB typing. I'm an INFJ, for what it's worth, so perhaps I gravitate to your writing a bit for that reason? My type is the rarest of the rare, I believe. So I understand your clan's feelings of 'nobody gets me'. Of course where my personality is concerned, I'm more interested in crawling around in other people's heads to see where they're coming from, to relate to it, versus needing the same relating back. Funnily though, nobody ever sees me as introverted. I just need to recharge every so often.

So I went back through a few pieces of your blog, just randomly (because I can't remember who Panther is, thought I'd see something), and saw that you were looking to move to California at some point. Is that still a possibility or is it on the back burner? I don't think what's going on with Maca would really change anything with that, would it? Maca isn't against leaving there, from what you'd said.

On Maca, he sounds 'old school'. Like the archetypical American male. He's probably not hard to get along with in some ways, and completely infuriating in others. Easy and difficult all rolled into one. I'd probably like hanging out with him, based on what you've written. That's no defense of his behavior, but one quality doesn't rule out any other qualities.

Purely out of curiosity, how in the hell do you have time to consider relationships at all considering how amped up your life gets between kids/grandkids/school/health/the daily grind/etc?

How's your daughter's baby due in January coming along? Is all well there? If I missed an update on that I apologize.

BTW, I'll be up in your neck of the woods for Iditarod in a few months (my daughter's gig), save some snow for us. :)
 
I am a strong believer in MB typing. I'm an INFJ, for what it's worth, so perhaps I gravitate to your writing a bit for that reason? My type is the rarest of the rare, I believe.
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Yep,that is the same as Panther's. It's 1% of the population. He doesn't tend to be as concerned with people understanding him, but he is DEFINITELY an introvert in every sense of the word. Very much prefers one-on-one or maybe two-on-one get togethers, not group settings, and he NEEDS his down time or he's impossible to even talk to.

So I went back through a few pieces of your blog, just randomly (because I can't remember who Panther is, thought I'd see something),
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Panther and I have been friends for over 25 years. There's always been a sexual tension, but we have never been willing to act on it, primarily because of major differences in our lives. He is very much a free spirit and my life just didn't make that feasible for me.

When I brought up to Maca in September that I wanted a FWB (which was within the boundaries we had agreed to) Panther was one of two people I mentioned as possibilities. Maca then confronted Panther and created a dramafest disaster.

With much talking in the months since, Panther and I have worked through our side of the arguments that arose on account of Maca's verbal attack on Panther. However, Panther refuses to have any contact with Maca at all. Maca feels that unless Panther is willing to talk things out with him, that I should not allow a relationship beyond friendship.

But I feel that he was the one who was wrong and that Panther deserves as much time as he wants to work through the emotions brought up by Maca's attack, and to accept or not accept the apology, as he wishes, PROVIDED that Panther is willing to accept that there are activities which he can no longer attend due to the conflict between them. Panther is fine with backing away from the family activities (which he has always been invited to attend) because he feels that Maca has proven himself untrustworthy. And it's not worth the risk to him to be around Maca, because he believes that it will only result in more dramatic scenes.

He happens to have a good point. Maca has willingly acknowledged that he has some major issues controlling his behavior when he has strong emotions. That is something that is not acceptable to Panther BECAUSE he knows it will lead to a fight between them, and that fighting between them hurts me and the kids, and he's right.

So anyway, this is the primary point of contention for Maca right now in regards to me and our relationship. He sees my stance as "not backing him up."

For me, the primary point of contention is that I feel that his "rules" and "expectations" are unethical and I can't uphold them against others, Panther included, but not exclusive to him.

and saw that you were looking to move to California at some point. Is that still a possibility or is it on the back burner?
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It is absolutely the key goal. I am busting my behind to finish up as much as I can towards my bachelor's degree and be in California by Fall 2016. Sweet Pea (son) needs to be there for his senior year of high school so that he can be accepted as a resident to the colleges there. I don't care if I have to sleep in a shelter; I intend to get there by that date so he can attend his senior year of high school there.

He's the first of our kids whose really dedicated themselves to school with the intent of going on to college. I don't intend to let it fall through on account of stupid-ass relationship BS.

Maca sounds 'old school,' like the archetypical American male. He's probably not hard to get along with in some ways, and completely infuriating in others. Easy and difficult all rolled into one. I'd probably like hanging out with him, based on what you've written. That's no defense of his behavior, but one quality doesn't rule out any other qualities.
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I completely understand and he is very much so in many ways. I enjoy hanging out with him. I love him and adore him. But I struggle under the pressure for me to be like him, which I am not.

Purely out of curiosity, how in the hell do you have time to consider relationships at all considering how amped up your life gets between kids/grandkids/school/health/the daily grind/etc.?
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This is why I don't "date." I only consider relationships with people I already have long-term friendships with, people who are already used to my life and don't mind hanging out with me when I have the kids and grandkids. :)

How's your daughter's baby due in January coming along? Is all well there? If I missed an update on that I apologize.
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Well, baby is still in Mommy, which is good news. She's been in and out of the hospital and it's been touchy. She's seeing the doctor at least twice a week at this point. The c-section is scheduled for December 20th. The 18th the boys come to me and I will have them for 10 straight days. If (fingers crossed) she makes it to the 20th the plan is to take the baby out and put her in the NICU to be sure she gains enough weight, etc., before sending her home. At this point, Baby appears to be healthy and growing well. The big concern is SpicyPea's internal tear & the risk to her life if the labor begins.

BTW, I'll be up in your neck of the woods for Iditarod in a few months (my daughter's gig). Save some snow for us. :)
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Well, we actually HAVE snow now lol. We have only had snow a week. It was starting to look pretty sad and pathetic. The whole US covered in snow and we were still dry and clear!
 
Still keeping you in my thoughts LR. I finally got another part time job to supplement my first which I will be starting next Saturday, and I just signed my first ever lease all by myself this week and moved out of my STBX husband's apartment.

Still trying to process, everything seems to have changed so fast. I'm hoping your transitions go as smoothly as they are able.
 
That's awesome, MusicalRose.

Things are slow here.

GG has an apartment. He started moving boxes today.

He's had some major awakening moments in the last few months, nothing that makes it possible for us to be in a relationship, but things that he needed to figure out. One of them is that he's far too dependent on me. He was researching Dependent Personality Disorder and finding that he fits all of the criteria.

At any rate, we are VERY VERY tentatively talking. The friendship matters to me, to both of us, and I want to save it. But I'm guarded about opening up too soon, too fast. He has a lot to do with himself, and we both need me to NOT be part of it.

He did say his apartment has a spare room and it's mine if I want it, no strings attached. If I need a place to go, I have one, which does relieve some anxiety for me, because I DO need a place to go. But I also desperately need to finish school and I don't know how to afford a place (which would require me to work at least 1 full time job and probably also have another part time job) AND stay in school.

I put in a bunch of resumes this week. I have a few more to drop off on Monday.

Maca informed me that he will not have sex with me so long as I am having sex with anyone else, "especially him--" Panther.

I told him that, as far as I'm concerned, it's best that he simply assume I AM having sex with Panther. My logic is that I already took all of the agreed-upon steps (STI testing, for example) required and identified him as a FWB. But I do not feel it is appropriate to say. "This is the day we are having sex."

So Maca and I are no longer sexually involved, either.

He says he is ok with me sleeping in our bed, emphasis on SLEEPING, "because I like to cuddle with you" ,but he's not ok with being involved with me sexually.

Every day there is some new twist to the plot. I'm trying to NOT get caught up in all of it.

I joined a solo poly group. I am finding myself very much drawn to what I perceive as being more ethical attitude of autonomy and individuality.

I love. But that doesn't mean that those I love have a right to infringe upon each other's lives and privacy. That doesn't mean that they have a right to make demands on me.

I'm in the midst of a major emotional overhaul in my life.
Still looking for work.
Still planning to move to California.
Still working on finishing up my bachelor's degree.
Still hoping to finish my master's and PhD.
Still focusing on improving myself.

I read the book "More Than Two." I greatly enjoyed it. I can see how the book is a major improvement on considering varying viewpoints, while maintaining the expectation of high ethics, as compared to the website. On the website, Franklin tends to get stuck in his own viewpoint (don't we all?) but in the book, I think having a co-author really helped branch things out.

I was duly impressed. Great read.
 
LovingRadiance said:
He's had some major awakening moments in the last few months. Nothing that makes it possible for us to be in a relationship. But things that he needed to figure out.
One of them is that he's far too dependent on me. He was researching Dependent Personality Disorder and finding that he fits all of the criteria.
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Oh geez, there is a "disorder" for everything these days! Whatever happened to "I realized I was doing ___ and ___ and my life wasn't going too well, but now I will strive to do ___ and make some changes to improve my life"? It helps to avoid personal responsibility, I suppose, to blame things on the next trendy disorder. Sorry-- just a rant.

LovingRadiance said:
He did say his apartment has a spare room and it's mine if I want it, no strings attached. If I need a place to go, I have one, which does relieve some anxiety for me, because I DO need a place to go, but I also desperately need to finish school and I don't know how to afford a place (which would require me to work at least 1 full time job and probably also have another part time job) AND stay in school.
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Oh, that is good! At least you have an option.

LovingRadiance said:
I love. But that doesn't mean that those I love have a right to infringe upon each others lives and privacy. That doesn't mean that they have a right to make demands on me...

I'm in the midst of a major emotional overhaul in my life.

Still looking for work.
Still planning to move to California.
Still working on finishing up my bachelor's degree.
Still hoping to finish my master's and PhD.
Still focusing on improving myself.
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You have a lot on your plate, but you always did! You can do it!

LovingRadiance said:
I read the book "More Than Two." I greatly enjoyed it. I can see how the book is a major improvement on considering varying view points while maintaining the expectation of high ethics; compared to the website. On the website Franklin tends to get stuck in his own viewpoint (don't we all?) but in the book, I think having a co-author really helped branch things out. I was duly impressed. Great read.
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I'm glad you wrote this. I have been thinking about getting it.

I wish you all good things, LR!
 
I'm feeling stupid tonight. It doesn't matter if my personality type is "always striving to be understood." I feel like a fucking idiot for continuing to try and explain myself when it's SO OBVIOUSLY NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

Nothing I say is going to be right. Nothing I do is going to be right.

I need to shut the fuck up and leave it alone. I need to accept that who I am, what I believe, is NEVER GOING TO BE ACCEPTABLE.

I'm so frustrated and angry at myself. Why can't I just STOP CARING?
 
Hope you feel better now. You aren't doing anything wrong.

Sounds like you are in the midst of much change and rethinking. Wishing you well as you move forward with it.
 
Big hugs, LR. I was glad to hear that the reading, etc. was perking you up (especially when it comes to you and SweetPea really grokking each other). I've always been fascinated by the MBTI, as well. I was once an ESTJ, but after hormonal changes (post-kids), I *knew* I did things a bit differently, and re-took the test: ESFJ now. Go figure. :)

Not sure where that puts me in the book you reference, although I did stuff the book on my Amazon wish list. We shall see.

Glad to hear that things are moving up (albeit slowly) with GG, and I'm glad you have a fallback. Removing even a tiny bit of stress can certainly help.

Hang in there and know you're being thought of! :)
 
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