Mono/Poly marriage

[hlh249]

Hello All,

So, by way of update, the relationship between B and D is now ended. My wife B is heartbroken. She ended it, as D wasn’t what she needed. I am supporting B as best I can, but it’s tough to watch her in so much pain.

She wants to start dating other people, and I have said yes to that, as she explores ENM.

The problem I have is if I ever have a wobble, she instantly threatens to leave me, saying, "I can’t do this."

I am not pretending this is easy, and it would not be the world I would choose, but I am choosing it as what makes me happy is B.

How do I get her to trust me in this? I just want her to see how committed I am to this so I can stop feeling perpetually anxious.

Any tips would be great.

Thanks.

 

[dingedheart]

Hello All,

The relationship between B and D is now ended and my wife B is heartbroken. She ended it, as D wasn’t what she needed.

Sorry, but what was missing from the non-sexual romantic relationship? And if it’s such a major deal, how does one be heartbroken over it? Generally speaking, for me, if it was big enough to break up over, and I was doing the breaking up, it was usually relief and maybe some sadness.

I am supporting B as best I can, but it’s tough to watch her in so much pain.

Have you expressed how tough it is being the emotional tampon? I don’t think spouses get much credit it for that. It’s like it comes with the territory.

She wants to start dating other people, and I have said yes to that as she explores ENM.

Nothing like getting back up on the horse.

The problem I have is if I ever have a wobble, she instantly threatens to leave me saying, "I can’t do this."

Wow, that seems super unfair and almost emotional blackmail. THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT. Tell her, "Fine, fucking leave." See what she does then. Let’s talk credits for being the emotional tampon now.

I am not pretending this is easy, and it would not be the world I would choose, but I am choosing it as what makes me happy is B.

There’s an old saying here: don’t light yourself on fire to keep your spouse warm. There could be a day you wake up and say, “Is this as good as it’s supposed to get?"

How do I get her to trust me in this? I just want her to see how committed I am to this so I can stop feeling perpetually anxious.

I might have to reread this thread, because I see it backwards. What have you done to lose her trust beside wobble, as you put it? I'd say there are damn few (none I’ve ever spoken to) after being poly-bombed that didn’t wobble. The fair and honest expectation is that such a blast to an established marriage is going to cause wobble. How the fuck could it not?

Any tips would be great.

Detangle. Start living a more separate life. Remove some of the eggs from that basket. Discover your own freedom, whatever that might be.

 

[hlh249]

It was non-physical, but we had agreed, should the moment come, then it could progress. Ultimately confusingly for me was, B said she didn’t know if she wanted the physical part, she just wanted it to be an option so she wasn’t cheating.

I think B has deep abandonment issues from childhood trauma which she has been in therapy with for sometime.

D said one thing, then behaved another way, and it became very toxic for B, and also for me and D's partner.

It’s confusing for me, as I am not sure if my wife is ENM/polyamorous, or is craving the freedom of a single life, having been a mum from 19, and then in a relationship with me for 16 years, having never experienced another female partner.

I raised this with her saying, "I am not sure you are ENM. Have you considered you just may want some freedom to explore yourself for a time?" This is what made her very angry. I feel I may have invalidated her self discovery, but was just voicing my opinion.

We have been together 16 years and never in this time has this topic arose until the last few months. I want to be the best spouse I can be, but feel I am failing her in this journey. I am so in love with her and happy with her. The ENM/poly bit hasn’t changed that for me. It’s just tough to know what to do.

 

[Evie]

So, I'll briefly summarise what I think has been the timeline, and you can correct me if I'm wrong.

You and your wife, B, emigrated from the UK to Aus not that long ago, 6 months maybe?
Almost immediately, B met D, hit it off, first platonically, then romantically, and then wanted to take it to a sexual level which you eventually agreed to although it was tough for you dealing with the escalation.
D befriended you - but then tried to break you and B up in conversations with you.
B stayed friends with D - and D then tried to break you and B up in conversations together, and B had to tell D that that is never going to happen.
B finally admitted to herself that D was more trouble than she's worth, and ended their connection. But she's heartbroken/disappointed that it didn't all work out.

If I've got this, in a nutshell, then D is a horrible person who has attempted to wreak havoc on your relationship, and I'd honestly be telling B to take a massive break from looking for another potential girlfriend until you've got some counselling, individually and joint! This is a hell of a lot to process in such a short time, on top of emigrating and getting used to a very different way of life. Seriously, slow down.

From your telling, I don't see you as failing B. I see both of you as trying to navigate so much *new* in a very short space of time that things are simply compounding. Again, slow your roll, establish yourselves in your community as a priority over opening up your relationship, and focus on making the therapy work for the healing of old trauma before inviting any more in.

 

[hlh249]

We are both in therapy, both reading all the books and articles. I agree about slowing down.

We have been in Oz 11 months. B met D in Jan of this year. (She was her PT instructor.)

B has ADHD, so can be impulsive and impatient, but has agreed to being much more deliberate, moving forward.

In my opinion, D has used our vulnerabilities to make themselves feel better, and I genuinely believe was only ever interested in B if it was without me in the picture.

Thank you for listening. It’s helpful to have a space to vent in. This is all so very new and confusing.

 

[Magdlyn]

Well, that's a sad ending. I, unlike dinged, can see how B would be more than just a little sad at how this all went down.

It sounds like maybe B is lashing out at you a little in her grief. When you feel shaken by this whole rollercoaster, it's not cool to tell you that she'll just leave you. When you have apparently been so patient and supportive! It seems like you've both been betrayed by D's bait and switch manoeuvres.

 

[hlh249]

Thank you

I am sure at times I could have handled things better. It was very difficult to stand back and watch B get hurt. It was like watching a slow crash I could not help. I understand from therapy and my reading that this is her pain to manage and hold, but have found it difficult to see her in pain.

It is strange to be part of. At times I have felt like I am watching my life, but not part of it.

B is starting to process what happened better. Her therapy sessions over last week have really enabled her to see the toxicity that was created. She stated she has learnt a lot about how to manage poly dynamics in the future.

It’s definitely slowed her down and made her start to visit exactly what she is wanting from this new version of our marriage and what we both can withstand.

Interestingly, I have more confidence in our marriage now than ever before.

 

[hlh249]

Well, that's a sad ending. I, unlike dinged, can see how B would be more than just a little sad at how this all went down.

It sounds like maybe B is lashing out at you a little in her grief. When you feel shaken by this whole rollercoaster, it's not cool to tell you that she'll just leave you. When you have apparently been so patient and supportive! It seems like you've both been betrayed by D's bait and switch manoeuvres.

Hi,

Sorry, me again... So B went no contact with D. She bumped into D the other day and has now spiralled and is saying she wants text contact and has not, because of me. I never asked for this, even though I believe it’s a toxic relationship.

D has not changed, and in the sporadic contact they have had, it’s about how she wants only friendship, etc., and B is saying that is better than nothing for her. But I just know this is all going to go horribly wrong for everyone again. I am all over the show again. I don’t know what to do.

My wife has been on a date with another person, and has had a few intense text experiences with other women. She then decided she didn’t like dating apps, came off them, and said she wanted to take a break from all of this, and how happy we had been. Now she is changing the goal
posts again.

I am very lost and unsure how to move forward in support of her, but also my own self. What we have learnt through all of this is we are
desperately in love still.

It’s all so hard.

 

[GalaGirl]

B went no contact with D. She bumped into D the other day, and has now spiralled and is saying she wants text contact and has not, because of me. I never asked for this, even though I believe it’s a toxic relationship.

Let me repeat back in my own words. You correct me, ok?

• Your wife, Britney, bumped into Diana.
• As a result, Britney wants to start texting Diana again, even though they broke up.
• Britney hasn't started texting "because of you."
• You didn't ask for no texting.
• You do think it's a toxic relationship.

How is Britney having some feelings after running into Diana a problem for you? Do nothing and say nothing. Maybe just basic mirroring back. "I see bumping into her again upset you. I see that you want to start texting again even though you two broke up." You don't tell her what to do in either direction.

Whatever she picks, Britney's subsequent behavior choices are on Britney. If Britney starts texting Diana again, whatever feelings rise from that are hers to deal with. If Britney doesn't text Diana, whatever feelings rise from that are hers to deal with.

When Britney struggles with tough feelings, does she whoosh at you? Is that why you struggle seeing her having them, you dread the whooshing?

D has not changed... she wants only friendship. B is saying that is better than nothing for her. But I just know this is all going to go horribly wrong for everyone again.

Which is why you step back and make it clear. "I'm not going to tell you what to do, but if you choose to get involved again, and Diana upsets you in some way, I don't want to hear about it. I expect you to deal with it on your own, or with your counselor. It was not me looking for problems over there again."

Then expectations are clear. Britney makes her choice to go there again or not. Britney owns it.

I am all over the show. I don’t know what to do.

Nobody is asking you to do anything. I didn't read any requests.

She then decided she didn’t like dating apps, came off them, and said she wanted to take a break from all of this, and how happy we had been. Now she is changing the goal posts again.

Is this up-and-down behavior part of the ADHD? Are you hitting ADHD-spouse burn out? Have you talked to your counselor about all that, and/or about having stronger personal/emotional boundaries with Britney?

Galagirl

 

[nks]

This is indeed a difficult situation. I feel that there is the bisexual element at play. Sometimes when you are bisexual, it is not easy to find the right partner. This is just my conjecture, but this is how I read this: Britney might have had a longstanding desire to be with a woman, even though she might not have expressed it before. Now, she finally found someone who she could fall for. They obviously have feelings for each other. What you said about her trying to find others suggests that she was struggling to find the same kind of attraction she has with Diana.

So, it is like she has finally found a woman she could love, but then, there is this issue between you and Diana. For her, the marriage is clearly important and she wants a poly relationship, while D is clearly looking for something else.

I can understand how you feel about Diana. Certainly, it is not okay to try to separate you from Britney. But B clearly cannot fully let D go. I am afraid this thing might go on for a while. Only Britney can sort out her feelings. Perhaps you can encourage her to keep looking for a partner that is better suited for poly. You can discuss her feelings about Diana and ask her what kind of women she really likes. Showing her you care can help. If you oppose her too much, she might start hiding things. Better to keep everything in the open.

 

[hlh249]

Let me repeat back in my own words. You correct me, ok?

• Your wife, Britney, bumped into Diana.
• As a result, Britney wants to start texting Diana again, even though they broke up.
• Britney hasn't started texting "because of you."
• You didn't ask for no texting.
• You do think it's a toxic relationship.

How is Britney having some feelings after running into Diana a problem for you? Do nothing and say nothing. Maybe just basic mirroring back. "I see bumping into her again upset you. I see that you want to start texting again even though you two broke up." You don't tell her what to do in either direction.

Whatever she picks, Britney's subsequent behavior choices are on Britney. If Britney starts texting Diana again, whatever feelings rise from that are Britney's to deal with. If Britney doesn't text Diana, whatever feelings rise from that are hers to deal with.

When Britney struggles with tough feelings, does she whoosh at you? Is that why you struggle seeing her having them, you dread the whooshing?

Step back and make it clear. "I'm not going to tell you what to do, but if you choose to get involved again, and Diana upsets you in some way, I don't want to hear about it. I expect you to deal with it on your own, or with your counselor. It was not me looking for problems over there again."

Then expectations are clear. Britney makes her choice to go there again or not. Britney owns it.

Nobody is asking you to do anything. I didn't read any requests.

Is this up-and-down behavior part of the ADHD? Are you hitting ADHD-spouse burn out? Have you talked to your counselor about all that, and/or about having stronger personal/emotional boundaries with Britney?

Thank you so much for your responses.

I know no one is asking anything of me, but I just feel so lost and, I guess, alone. The marriage I was in is, to all intents and purposes, over, and we are reworking a new one.

As I have consistently said, I don’t choose poly; I am happy in my mono life. But I do choose B, and she wants to explore this. I have had to rework my whole thinking. Some days it’s easy, some days it’s hard.

I am unsure how to support her. Is it just a case of standing back, even if you can see what they cannot? I hate to see someone I love get so hurt.

 

[hlh249]

This is indeed a difficult situation. I feel that there is the bisexual element at play. Sometimes when you are bisexual, it is not easy to find the right partner. This is just my conjecture, but this is how I read this: Britney might have had a longstanding desire to be with a woman, even though she might not have expressed it before. Now, she finally found someone who she could fall for. They obviously have feelings for each other. What you said about her trying to find others suggests that she was struggling to find the same kind of attraction she has with Diana.

So, it is like she has finally found a woman she could love, but then, there is this issue between you and Diana. For her, the marriage is clearly important and she wants a poly relationship, while D is clearly looking for something else.

I can understand how you feel about Diana. Certainly, it is not okay to try to separate you from Britney. But B clearly cannot fully let D go. I am afraid this thing might go on for a while. Only Britney can sort out her feelings. Perhaps you can encourage her to keep looking for a partner that is better suited for poly. You can discuss her feelings about Diana and ask her what kind of women she really likes. Showing her you care can help. If you oppose her too much, she might start hiding things. Better to keep everything in the open.

For clarity purposes, we all identify as cis women. B and I have been in a WLW relationship for 16 years. There is no bisexual element attached to this.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm going to guess. I might guess wrong, so take it with a grain of salt, and discard what does not apply in your situation, ok? Just stuff to think over.

I know no one is asking anything of me but i just feel so lost and I guess alone.

Maybe a visual aid helps you. Look at the graph.

Transitions: managing personal and organizational change

Article describing the transition process, its effects on our work & personal and implications for managers.

www.eoslifework.co.uk

It sounds like Britney is on Track A of emotional change. She had the initial "Whee!" from the relationship with Diana to buoy her up. She hadn't gotten to mourning the loss of the "old normal" yet, because she was all excited for the "new normal." She didn't know the relationship would end.

You were on Track B. A lot of hard work, for a lot less security/attention from Britney. Plus grief for the loss of the "old normal" hitting you first.

You also are both dealing with living in a new country and don't have full circle of friends/support build here yet, so that can add to the lonely/isolated feelings.

You might be dealing in "poly hell" stuff too.

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for

www.kathylabriola.com

Plus there's the fact that Britney won't talk reality with you. You keep saying you are happy with Britney, but you are not happy with some of her behaviors.

The problem I have is if I ever have a wobble, she instantly threatens to leave me, saying, "I can’t do this."

I doubt you are happy about that. Maybe you are feeling a little bit angry because you are doing your best to support her in this journey and she's not supporting you in the ways you need?

It’s confusing for me, as I am not sure if my wife is ENM/polyamorous, or is craving the freedom of a single life, having been a mum from 19, and then in a relationship with me for 16 years, having never experienced another female partner.

I raised this with her, saying, "I am not sure you are ENM. Have you considered you just may want some freedom to explore yourself for a time?" This is what made her very angry. I feel I may have invalidated her self-discovery, but was just voicing my opinion.

I doubt you are happy with that either -- that you can't talk about your own confusion without her getting all angry/defensive/shutting the convo down.

What's she even angry ABOUT? If that's not it, can't she calmly say, "I'm sorry. I get this is a lot, and that it can be confusing. But no, that's not it. I'm not after the single life"?

The marriage I was in is, to all intents and purposes, over, and we are reworking a new one.

Yes. The "old normal" is gone and the "new normal" isn't entirely here yet. You may experience grief/loss for the old marriage.

If you used to put Britney on some kind of pedestal, and she's letting you down a lot, you might grieve that too. You might feel disloyal for even thinking the thought, or feel weird seeing her as human or fallible. Or maybe you thought you knew her, but now it's like, "Who IS this version of her?"

Maybe she let her NRE for Diana go to her head. That's not an excuse to treat you poorly, but it might be a reason why she's all... weird. For some people, NRE is like they are drunk or high or something.

Ever tried to take the keys from a drunk person who INSISTS they aren't drunk and they are totally fine? It is a PITA.

Now, in this break-up, could she be going through some kind of NRE withdrawal?

As I have consistently said, I don’t choose poly; I am happy in my mono life. But I do choose B, and she wants to explore this.

To me, you ARE choosing to be in a poly relationship. You yourself may not be poly-dating on your side, but you ARE choosing to be in a poly relationship with B while she poly-dates on her side.

In doing so, you will have to deal with all the things being in a poly relationship brings with it. It's just not going to be monogamy and the things of monogamy.

I have had to rework my whole thinking. Some days it’s easy, some days it’s hard.

Understandable.

I am unsure how to support her. Is it just a case of standing back, even if you can see what they cannot? I hate to see someone I love get so hurt.

What do you want to support her IN? Has she made any actual requests of you? Are they reasonable? Rational? Are you not willing for her to experience her full range of emotions? Learn to become more emotionally resilient? Learn to develop skills like foresight, thinking ahead? Learn to manage her ADHD and any other other conditions? Stop oversharing TMI details about her other relationships with you? Learn to clean up her own messes?

How about you? What do you need support in? Have you made reasonable and rational requests of Britney? What are the things you need to learn to do better? How about better emotional boundaries? Learning healthy detachment? Not like you don't care about her at all. You do care. But learning to care in a healthier way so you aren't not taking her stuff on board for yourself, like it's your job to "fix" it for her?

Is there any codependency here? Could something like www.coda.org help any?

Galagirl