New poly-relationship has me in crisis!

[Danielsen]

Hey guys,
I'm having a difficult day today.
Things have actually been going great, over the weekend my wife and I were really close and we had some intimacy. It was great because it was the first time it didn't feel weird to her, but like we were returning to us. However, things are different, without going into too much detail I'm way more aroused by my wife then I ever was before and this has brought on some new challenges. Our old patterns have to be revamped because my performance is not quite the same because there is a stronger passion in the bedroom that wasn't ever that intense before which is great on the one hand. The problem is, my wife isn't getting fully satisfied because of these new issues, to which she has said don't worry about it. We are a work in progress and I know we can get back to the way things use to be. She is optimistic on the one hand, but I know she is not getting fully satisfied.

What has me concerned is that because of these issues I am dealing with sexually, I'm concerned that that will influence her decision as to who she chooses to be with sexually. The system we have right now is she wants things to happen organically and these things are based on mood, who she is with at the time, how long it has been etc. She doesn't want to keep score, because there are going to be times when I am around more and times when he is more available and I am fine with this system. I want it to be organic as well and just happen spontaneously. I'm stuck because her relationship with this guy has no issues and ours does. She even said that it would be easier to be with him right now because they have nothing to work on in that dept. Between the two of us instinctively it would be easier to choose the path of least resistance but she says she wouldn't do that. She wants to work on us and is committed to that. Is it normal for the husband (me) to be a work in progress while her other relationship is comfortable and easy going? I want to believe her, but I wouldn't blame her if she factored my issues into her decision making for who she chooses to have sex with.

I also had this conversation with her and things got intense and she told me that this conversation is a mood killer. She is right and she further said that it interrupts our progress which we were making positively. I wish I didn't bring it up, but sometimes I need reassurances, all i wanted her to say was no way would this effect her desire to be intimate with me. It's tough being in this spot. I have to be careful what I say to protect our progress, but that means I have to swallow my issues and suffer in silence over certain things. It's also tough knowing that their sexual relationship is so much more appealing and ours is a work in progress. Hell, I don't even know if I can overcome this new sexual issue I am having so that we can get back to the way things were, even though she is optimistic. I want us to be on equal playing field, what I mean is I want both relationships to be not a work in progress, but equally desirable options for her. I want to be able to satisfy her fully in the bedroom which I can't quite do yet and that is killing me. It was never an issue before and now that I talked with her about it who knows when she is going to be in the mood again with me cause the conversation makes her not want it with me. Meanwhile, she is all flirty and sexual with him when he came over to visit tonight, I know they held back for my sake and the late hour, but she wanted to be with him sexually. That's fine, but it hurts when I know that she is turned off by me at the same time. God, things get good, then I have a little issue in the bedroom and I get stuck and ruin things by being insecure. Aren't I allowed to be struggling a little with things, why am I the one who is the problem. They brought this into my life, just be patient with me I am coming around. So difficult sometimes I'm just stuck I don't want to give her a reason to prefer him over me. I feel like I did with this sexual issue I'm having and now by talking about it with her. Sorry, for the long drawn out post, know that a lot of things are going well, but every now and then I get stuck on something in my head that I just can't get passed on my own.

Danielsen

 

[FallenAngelina]

Danielsen, are you getting the idea that building your security on others' reassurance makes for a very rough ride? I'll re-post some thoughts that were offered to you a few months ago and I heartily encourage you to take them in again. Focusing on the perceived "level" of your wife's satisfaction can only lead to less and less security, not more. You shouldn't be sufferening in silence, you should be working on your insecurities. When your wife says that these conversations are a mood killer, she is telling you that she can't make your insecurities go away. No amount of reassurance from her can do that. Your fears are not about anyone but you and nobody but you can change your experiece of the situation.

Hi Danielsen,

Just a quick note...

The things your wife tells you don't "make you" feel insecure; you are already insecure and are only latching on to those things as the reason for it, simply because it stirred the waters and brought your insecurities to the surface. But feeling either secure or insecure about who you are, your value, and what you bring to a relationship - well, that's an inside job. Furthermore, no one else can fix it for you. It's up to you to make the effort to build your sense of self-esteem and see your worth. If you were already in a centered, confident, secure place within yourself, when she told you these things, they wouldn't have ruffled your feathers and thrown you off-balance so much. So, instead of focusing on what she is doing or saying, or images of her with him, focus on you, and what you can do to feel better about yourself.

The other thing is about her body and sex. I know it is easy, when one is married or in a long-term entanglement, to think of their spouse's body as theirs. But that is an illusion. In reality, your wife's body and sexuality never belonged to you. So, it just isn't true that anything is being taken away from you, because it wasn't yours to begin with. She chose to share herself with you, and now she chooses to share herself with someone else as well. She has told you she isn't going anywhere, so trust that. Again, becoming more secure in who you are and what you have to offer will help you. And stop thinking about comparisons - no one ever wins at the compare game.

Watching for "good behavior" and signs of love from others is always a temporary fix, for when we are focused on others to shore us up, our lives are built on the sands of their changing tides. Through this new experience, you now have the opportunity to build the majority of your foundation on solid ground - you. This is something that everyone who wants stability needs to do whether they are poly, mono, pink or purple. Your wife and your friend/her BF and you all sound like good, thoughtful people and there's much potential for things to go well here. The key for you is to keep your focus on building your own stability that is not dependent on what you imagine others are thinking about you. It's a challenge for most people, so you're in good company, but it's possible to align with - and there is no peace without it.

 

[GalaGirl]

Let me repeat back want I understand so far. You correct me if I am wrong.

• You and wife share sex.
• It is feeling good for her. Good for you too... In fact extra aroused.
  
• Now you you worry that because you orgasm from so much arousal and do not help her orgasm, she is going to pick the other bf to share sex with so she can cum.
  
• You fret and talk about this with wife.
• Wife tells you this convo is a mood killer.
  • She says it is ok for her not to orgasm each time and you could not be keeping score of who she shares sex with the most.
  • Instead you guys could focus on sharing a nice time.

Is that where this is at?

To me it sounds like like you choose NOT to focus on good bits a lot. You choose to find something new to fret over.

What do you need so you can relax and be more able to focus on good? Tame this anxiety? Did you ever see a counselor? You do not have to suffer in silence. Could see someone outside this circle so wife and you do not get overloaded by anxiety management.


You say you need this:

I need reassurances, all i wanted her to say was no way would this effect her desire to be intimate with me.

Are you able to just ask for that simply without all the rest? Like right after sex share and without making it be a bigger thing than it needs to be...

"Could you reassure me that it is ok we both didn't orgasm? And that you would still want to share sex again another time?"

She already said it was fine.

Maybe you wanted to hear it twice. But don't turn it into her being the reassurance fountain. How many times does it have to be before you decided to BELIEVE her and allow yourself to relax? That's why I think you have super anxiety that would benefit from a check up.

I notice you also have a habit of beating yourself up. I think that helps you stay insecure. You become your own bully telling yourself how you just stink. And because you have this belief about yourself, you look for the "evidence" to prove it even when things are going ok.

Again, another reason why I think you would benefit from counseling.

You need someone else to help you untangle these things inside you. You cannot do it alone, and she cannot do it either. Time for the pros.

Please consider seeing a counselor to help you learn how to manage the anxieties, how to self-validate, and how to put things in perspective.

Galagirl

 

[LizziE]

I agree with what the others wrote, especially about counseling and wanted to add in a few extras.

Is it normal for the husband (me) to be a work in progress while her other relationship is comfortable and easy going?

It is "normal" for different relationships to be in different places at all times. Because they're DIFFERENT. They started at different times; different people have different ways in which they click, and different ways in which they have friction. Keep repeating to yourself that there is NOTHING abnormal about the state of your relationships.

I want us to be on equal playing field, what I mean is I want both relationships to be not a work in progress, but equally desirable options for her.

Then you're probably screwed, because your relationships are never going to be on a equal playing field. Your relationship with your wife is always going to have more history than his. You're going to have different problems. But you're also going to have known your wife at stages in your life that the new guy will never know. Differences on both sides. Different things that are desirable in different ways.

it hurts when I know that she is turned off by me at the same time.

It's funny how you said she enjoys having sex with you, and is working on it with you and now you're saying that she is turned off by you. Why do you keep doing that?

Aren't I allowed to be struggling a little with things, why am I the one who is the problem.

Yes, you are allowed - so STOP beating yourself up for it.

So difficult sometimes I'm just stuck I don't want to give her a reason to prefer him over me.

Be yourself. Better yet, be yourself in counseling. It will help.

Right now, it looks like you keep coming back, looking for reassurances for the same insecurities, both here and from your wife. The same fears in slightly different packages. Both here, and with your wife, you might get a temporary hit of relief from our words, but it's NEVER going to get better until you start valuing yourself, working on yourself, and gaining confidence in yourself FOR yourself, not for your wife. We can't do it for you. She can't do it for you. YOU have to do it for you. The longer that you hold off on working on you, the harder this will be for you. You do have the ability to feel better about these things, but YOU have to work on it - probably with help from a pro, but that's what they're here for, to be helpful.

 

[nycindie]

Danielsen, you are thinking way too much about, well, everything. Just focus on being present in your body and how it feels to be with your wife and STOP COMPARING in your head. Just stop it when you start thinking these things and asking these questions. Look into her eyes, breathe, focus on the feeling of your skin against hers, connect. All you ever really need to do in sex is to be there, be real, be responsive, be you - you can't go wrong.

I don't always orgasm every time I have intercourse, but if I connect with my partner and it's fun and enjoyable, it doesn't bother me - if he's already finished and I haven't climaxed yet, I just have him hold me (or do other things) while I use my vibrator, or he will use it on me and get me off that way. No big deal about that, it's more about the connection than anything else.

And you have to realize that people do not get into polyamory in order to find someone to choose instead of their current partner. People get into polyamory because they want more than one partner. Remember that. It is not a competition, nor a race, and there is no winner that she is going to pick after seeing "who fucks her best." That is not even anything she would even think up, I can confidently tell you that. Stop looking for problems where they do not exist - you are unnecessarily twisting yourself in knots.

 

[reflections]

Right now, it looks like you keep coming back, looking for reassurances for the same insecurities, both here and from your wife. The same fears in slightly different packages. Both here, and with your wife, you might get a temporary hit of relief from our words, but it's NEVER going to get better until you start valuing yourself, working on yourself, and gaining confidence in yourself FOR yourself, not for your wife. We can't do it for you. She can't do it for you. YOU have to do it for you. The longer that you hold off on working on you, the harder this will be for you. You do have the ability to feel better about these things, but YOU have to work on it - probably with help from a pro, but that's what they're here for, to be helpful.

This.

We can keep reassuring you. But it will only provide a temporary fix until you do the inner work to become more secure. I highly encourage you to look into counseling, as many other posters on here have. You want our advice? That's what we're saying.

 

[tenK]

And you have to realize that people do not get into polyamory in order to find someone to choose instead of their current partner. People get into polyamory because they want more than one partner. Remember that. It is not a competition, nor a race, and there is no winner that she is going to pick after seeing "who fucks her best."

nycindie nailed it. Whenever I feel insecure or worried about Nina going on a date, this is something I try to remind myself. I know *I* don't go into meeting new people with those intentions in mind, but it can be hard to give your partner the same credit sometimes if you are at a low ebb. Essential though. The giving credit I mean. You have to take your partner at her word, and the more you do it and see that trust you place in her validated, the better you'll both feel together.

The brain is such a weird organ. Almost every other part of your body, when it's overstretched and struggling to keep up, reverts to the simplest possible mode of operation. Not the brain. When the brain is swamped, it just adds more layers of complexity. You need to instruct it with conscious thought to just stick to what is simple. In this case, simple is: my wife loves me, and wants to be with me.

Maybe you can work on trying to ride out the uncomfortable feelings, and talking to her about it after you're done processing them, rather than just expressing them in the moment. Often we are so focused on what is not going right, that we neglect to share the little steps of progress that we are making, and that's a real shame. You've actually come a long way since this thread started, and since a lot of that change is internal and maybe not visible to her, perhaps you will feel more confident if you can start to share those things too - show her the ups and not just the downs. It will give her confidence too to know that you are taking care of business, so to speak. Even if you start with the small things - so not any of your issues around sex, which seems to be a particularly strong trigger for you right now. You can say 'hey, this morning when you called him super early and we missed the chance to talk to each other over breakfast, I felt a bit rejected. But then I realised that last night we had a really good uninterrupted time together and I felt really close to you, and the feeling passed. I'm starting to see how these things naturally balance out, and I wanted to share that insight with you.' Obviously, I made that example up, but I think it's important to try to pay attention to moments that work for you, and give appropriate credit to both you and her for handling those things well. Instead of just beating yourself up when things don't go well.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Danielsen,

A thought about your "overexcitement" in the bedroom: Would it help if you started your encounters by going down on your wife (oral sex), continue that until she orgasms, then do the stuff that would make you orgasm afterwards? When you say your wife isn't fully satisfied, I take it you mean she doesn't orgasm.

Re (from Post #161):

"Is it normal for the husband (me) to be a work in progress while her other relationship is comfortable and easygoing?"

Why not? The other relationship has NRE. That always makes things easier. On top of that, you have insecurities and are constantly comparing yourself (negatively) to the other man. Those types of insecurities and comparisons are bound to complicate things for you -- one way or another -- in the bedroom.

You need to stop looking for reasons why your wife will favor and prefer the other man over you. You'll only continue to find more of those reasons if you keep looking hard enough, and it will continue to cause you to have difficult days. I don't know what the secret is to reprogramming your thoughts, but understand that the current programming is causing you problems.

Re:

"I wish I didn't bring it up, but sometimes I need reassurances; all I wanted her to say was no way would this effect her desire to be intimate with me."

Has she ever gave you that reassurance before? More than once? How often, and how many times? What about reassurances in general? How many kinds of reassurance has she given?

You absolutely can express your fears here and vent as needed. I would suggest you do that before bringing things up with her. Get some advice and perspective from this forum first. Maybe that would reduce the need to belabor the negative when you're talking to her?

I apologize if I got a little preachy ... I just want to help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Danielsen]

Thanks all, really helpful advice, I'm really working securing my personal shit and not leaving it up to my wife. We also recently were intimate and it was incredible. It turns out that patience is what will see us through some of these challenges. Thanks for your ongoing support.
Today in having a bit of a rough day and I'm not going to talk about it with my wife cause it's personal shit, so I'm just going to share with you guys. I've noticed a strange development emerging within me. See lately the three of us have been hanging out on the couch cuddle puddling which is great cause my wife says cuddling with one is never as good as cuddling with two makes me feel wanted. However, he is naturally becoming part of our family unit, he is here everyday with us alone time with my wife needs to be planned because she likes the arrangement of all of us under one roof. My pessimistic brain is looking for the bad in this. I was wondering if any of you have a similar dynamic in your relationships and if so, how do you manage alone time with the other and have it be fair so that everybody gets what they need. I'm not really feeling a lacking, but I do wonder if you find time for spontaneity with one partner in this arrangement. See, if he is always here, what if he is interfering with potential time I could be with my wife intimately. Logistics I guess are an ongoing challenge in this arrangement. The other day was interesting, we both took turns being sexually intimate with her. He took the dog for a walk so I could have sexy times and then I took the dog for a walk. It was cool and both of us guys were comfortable with it and so was my wife cause she wanted both of us intimately. I suppose that could be a benefit in our future cause all three of us have high sex drives. I'm still concerned about me getting enough time with her though. Which leads to one more issue I've been dealing with.
Lately, I have been hanging out with them a lot, most of the time I want to, but some of the time I am doing it out of some fear of leaving them alone in the house together while I am there. It's like I don't want to leave them alone. I know this is not healthy, cause I can't always be cuddling with them, but I have some fear of leaving them alone. Maybe they will be intimate and then I'll be wondering when my turn is or if I will get my fair share of her time intimately. Maybe I'll discover that she likes to be alone with him more then being alone with me. She sure laughs a lot with him, I dunno I just know that I find myself hanging out with them sometimes because I'm afraid to leave them alone together while I'm home. I also don't want to leave the house with them two alone cause they may have sex in my absence. I know this is messed up but I'm wrestling with this. Not sure of the root of this but I can't keep this up. Maybe because It's either the three of us cuddling or just the two of them. I need to be comfortable letting them just be themselves alone in the house when I'm not with them cause I get just always cuddle with them, I've got things of my own to do.

 

[kdt26417]

Re:

"I was wondering if any of you have a similar dynamic in your relationships and if so, how do you manage alone time with the other and have it be fair so that everybody gets what they need?"

You schedule it; it's as simple as that. And making sure everyone is getting what they need is a simple matter of communication.

Sometimes there are circumstances you can take advantage of. For example, Snowbunny and I schedule our alone time together for Saturday morning when Brother-Husband is at work. This way there aren't fears that he'll hear something he doesn't want to hear ... out of sight, out of mind. That's what works for us anyway. What works for you will probably be somewhat different, but scheduling and communication will almost certainly be important parts of it.

Re:

"I do wonder if you find time for spontaneity with one partner in this arrangement."

There are limits to spontaneity when all three people live under the same roof. When Snowbunny is asleep with Brother-Husband for example, I could go wake Snowbunny up, but I think that would be inconsiderate on my part. Again what works for me is different than what works for you, but you do have to be considerate to everyone in the equation.

Re:

"See, if he is always here, what if he is interfering with potential time I could be with my wife intimately?"

Do you then suggest that he should never be there? After all, anytime he is present with your wife, that interferes with your potential intimate time with her. I think this is an area where you simply have to decide if you need more alone time with your wife and if you do, ask him to spend less time with her. What else could you do?

Re:

"He took the dog for a walk so I could have sexy times and then I took the dog for a walk."

That sounds like a perfectly good solution to me. (LOL, the dog's like thinking, "Why am I walking so much?" )

Re:

"I have some fear of leaving them alone. Maybe they will be intimate and then I'll be wondering when my turn is or if I will get my fair share of her time intimately. Maybe I'll discover that she likes to be alone with him more than being alone with me."

That sounds to me like your usual habit of imagining the worst possible scenario. I don't have any quick answers for it; the best I can tell you is you need to get better at recognizing that negative thought pattern. If you get good enough at it you might eventually be able to stop it in its tracks.

Haven't you been getting your fair share of intimacy lately? If you have, then that gives you reason to believe that you'll keep on getting your fair share. Worst case scenario, if you feel you need more intimate time, you simply tell your wife that you need more and the two/three of you then work something out together.

As for her preferring his companionship over yours, that's baseless fear talking. The only advantage he has right now is NRE, and that won't last forever. So what's the big worry? Even if she did like his companionship more, that wouldn't necessarily hurt you other than a ding to your ego. As long as she is willing to be fair and wants to spend an adequate amount of time with each of you, there's no need to think that the sky is falling.

Re:

"I also don't want to leave the house with them two alone cause they may have sex in my absence."

Must you always be in the house if they're going to have sex? Maybe that's a rule you guys have, but you might want to question it. Is the rule helping you overcome your insecurities, or is it enabling your insecurities (by catering to them)? What's the reason for the rule?

Re:

"Maybe because it's either the three of us cuddling or just the two of them."

Do you need some (or more) one-on-one cuddle time with your wife? If so, you should tell her. I'm sure she'd be happy to do that with you. (As long as it's the cuddling itself that you want! Not so much so if you just feel a need to "win the cuddling contest" with the other man.)

 

[nycindie]

It is your home, too. You do have a right to privacy and to limit the number of days/nights you want to have a guest in your space.

 

[Inyourendo]

Can she go to his house? Nate only has people over if the kids and I are gone for the night

 

[GalaGirl]

Not sure of the root of this but I can't keep this up.

Most of your stuff seems to revolve around a fear of being excluded or left out. If you don't want to all live together -- say so.

I need to be comfortable letting them just be themselves alone in the house when I'm not with them

You could remind yourself you already do that successfully with no problems. Like when you go out to walk the dog. They were alone, had sex, and it was not the end of the world.

Focus on what you want more of. (Being secure in yourself)

Rather than focus on what you do NOT want. (Being uncertain)

Galagirl

 

[Dagferi]

Op you need to seek out the blog section and look at some different blogs for some research on living situations.

For example Bluebird has both her guys living with her under one roof. For them it works out very well.

In my life I am the hinge between two mono men. I split my time as close to 50/50 as I can between two homes that I share with each man. Living under one roof would be both men's version of hell on earth. It isn't that they don't get along it is that each looks their own personal space, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Bluebird]

I DO have both my guys living me with me, and it's been a year. Things are terrific.

I was wondering if any of you have a similar dynamic in your relationships and if so, how do you manage alone time with the other and have it be fair so that everybody gets what they need. I'm not really feeling a lacking, but I do wonder if you find time for spontaneity with one partner in this arrangement. See, if he is always here, what if he is interfering with potential time I could be with my wife intimately. Logistics I guess are an ongoing challenge in this arrangement.

We schedule alone time and have it built into our schedules. I swap off every other night with each guy. So if I am having a date night tonight with PunkRock, then DarkKnight has his date night tomorrow. The next night is PunkRock again, then DarkKnight. You get the picture. If they want to chill out and work on their hobbies, or hang with friends, they can figure out what night I am otherwise occupied and do that. Lots of times we get off-schedule because say, DarkKnight wants to go to a beer festival with me that is on a different night. It gets discussed and nights are traded. It's no big deal, but as the hinge in our V, I make sure this isn't heavily skewed toward one guy all the time. That's my job.

Tonight was actually my date night with PunkRock, but we were watching a movie we all wanted to see (a Netflix DVD) so we were all 3 together in the living room. DarkKnight made sure we were ok with that first, and since it was fine, we were all good. I did get some chit chat time alone with PunkRock after for about a half hour.

The other day was interesting, we both took turns being sexually intimate with her. He took the dog for a walk so I could have sexy times and then I took the dog for a walk. It was cool and both of us guys were comfortable with it and so was my wife cause she wanted both of us intimately. I suppose that could be a benefit in our future cause all three of us have high sex drives.

I have done this a few times, but I have a thing with energy. If I have a thing going with one guy, I don't like his energy to spillover into the encounter with the next guy. I like some time buffer. PunkRock has actually asked for that before. For us, it's about being clued into the person you are with, it's not just fuck this guy right in front of me because I'm horny. I usually have a very specific yearning for one or the other. Not everyone is this way, so have fun!

I'm still concerned about me getting enough time with her though. Which leads to one more issue I've been dealing with.
Lately, I have been hanging out with them a lot, most of the time I want to, but some of the time I am doing it out of some fear of leaving them alone in the house together while I am there. It's like I don't want to leave them alone. I know this is not healthy, cause I can't always be cuddling with them, but I have some fear of leaving them alone. Maybe they will be intimate and then I'll be wondering when my turn is or if I will get my fair share of her time intimately. Maybe I'll discover that she likes to be alone with him more then being alone with me. She sure laughs a lot with him, I dunno I just know that I find myself hanging out with them sometimes because I'm afraid to leave them alone together while I'm home. I also don't want to leave the house with them two alone cause they may have sex in my absence. I know this is messed up but I'm wrestling with this. Not sure of the root of this but I can't keep this up. Maybe because It's either the three of us cuddling or just the two of them. I need to be comfortable letting them just be themselves alone in the house when I'm not with them cause I get just always cuddle with them, I've got things of my own to do

You need to focus on what you need specifically and less on what the other guy is getting. Unless your wife is telling you she isn't horny for you because she just fucked her boyfriend, then it isn't something to actively worry about. You're giving yourself anxiety for no reason. Again, stop comparing. If there is something you need, then ask for it. Maybe she will discover she likes being alone with him more, or that she enjoys trying different wines with him. But maybe you and her have a thing for art museums together. (DarkKnight and I go to aquariums) Not everyone can be special in the same way and that is normal. Sexually too!

Shit, I think in the entire relationship with PunkRock, he and I have done it doggystyle a half dozen times. DarkKnight likes to do me from behind almost every time. Does that mean PunkRock is being short changed? Hell no, because he doesn't WANT it. I am fulfilling the needs he has, and he isn't concerned about counting. So if I want it hard in that particular position, DarkKnight is my go-to guy. And that is perfectly ok.

 

[Inyourendo]

Yep, the kids and i go between two homes and that is what works best for us. Both my guys are introverts and need me and the kids gone

 

[dingedheart]

It looks like you made some real process nice job I wish you continued success

I'm not really feeling a lacking, but I do wonder if you find time for spontaneity with one partner in this arrangement.

I found that with in my relationship spontaneity died fairly quickly and I didn't have some guy hanging around my house. So I can see this being a real issue for you. For me it ended up feeling like booking a conference room.
Having my own business allows for flexibility and also mean there are situations in which demands my attention and most case its not optional. So for me scheduling was difficult because day to day who knows what will happen and what I'm required to do. Also I learned I'm NOT a taco Tuesday kind of guy...I might not be in the mood for tacos on Tuesday. In hindsight I can look back and see 2 negative and natural cycles that happened. 1) Because of my schedule and personality I called or suggested things more last minute and was told sorry I have plans ...so after a number of those I stopped suggesting because I took it as a form of rejection because the sentiment was never returned. When the lopsided nature of this was too large to ignore she suggested a fixed date night for us. Normally (historically ) we'd go to dinner and or movie or show on Friday or Saturday nights because those activities could end up being late nights and we both have to work in the morning. Our fixed date night then became Wednesday nights. Friday and Saturday remained open /first come first serve or family stuff (soccer or football games, etc, etc Because everything was new or changing I agreed and decided to see how that would go. 2 ) the other negative cycle is along the lines of what you mentioned in one of your posts.....I thought if her rhetoric were actually true she would want to /reach out for dates, time, and attention so I decided to stop vying for that...if i was truly on her mind or as important as she stated I thought it was but a matter of time in which I would see that. Wrong. NRE was way more powerful than my logical brain had estimated. Disappointments build ...wonderful Wednesday's were filled with expectations and hope and hyper sensitivity to mood or attitude and conduct. It doesn't take but a few texts or glances at a phone or messages that "have to be replied to" or a forced /distant mood before a negative cycle occurs. Yes being hypersensitive isn't going to help this situation ...in fact it feeds the negative cycle however as Ive said before on here some of this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. I became sensitive and then over time hypersensitive....as a result of words and action from my wife. I sincerely reject the idea/position that whatever negative emotions a partners is having can be caulked up to jealousy/envy and its their shit to deal with. I think that attitude and the accompanied quick dismissal " oh that's your insecurity talking again..... I cant make you secure ...this is such a turn off /unattractive " this really fuels the negative this cycle.

See, if he is always here, what if he is interfering with potential time I could be with my wife intimately. Logistics I guess are an ongoing challenge in this arrangement. The other day was interesting, we both took turns being sexually intimate with her. He took the dog for a walk so I could have sexy times and then I took the dog for a walk. It was cool and both of us guys were comfortable with it and so was my wife cause she wanted both of us intimately. I suppose that could be a benefit in our future cause all three of us have high sex drives.

I'd say back to back sex sessions is a big step forward toward your goal of a 3 way. However I see both positives and negatives to this.

Because of it being home court are you always going to get to go first?? The plus for you being the opening act ...you know the guy behind you is going to bat clean up ... way less stress...you dont have to worry about being the super lover and you might not have time for that either ..tick tock
The negative..... how long is the loop for the dog walk?? performance issues/slow start could be embarrassing or having to rush or stop because they'll be back soon.

If its a round robin start.... the positive of going second is ...1) 1st guy is the fluffer (porno term ) and has got thing going and there less work for second guy .....2) the big hitter and the passion generated by the NRE has satisfied her and you're going to be icing on the cake or at worse not notice or care what you're doing. Do your thing have fun and don't look back. 3) more time...more relaxed because no one is breathing down your neck with their hand up yelling next.

The negatives might be the 1) whole sloppy seconds thing and swapping spit with this guy via body parts 2) performance issues because of the bar being set high ...not being able to match the last performer (in your head ) 3) wife less than interested because the last performer did a great job ...and thus ends up being more obligatory or maintenance or taking one for the team so you end up getting less out of the experience.

2 other negatives I thought of this morning while letting my own dogs out and seeing my neighbors walking and running their dogs . Your neighbors might figure out what's going on with the dog walking pattern " there goes that guy walking the so and so's dog and then I saw Dan 30-40 minutes later walking the dog too.

Also the dog might really really like this routine and come to expect all this walks. My dogs are relentless at 7 pm ...that's their walk time.

Lastly are you afraid of leaving them alone because the thought of them having sex is upsetting or its a turn on and you don't want to miss out. do you think you might have a cuckold thing developing ? This isn't meant to be insulting either its just a question based on what I'm reading from the other struggling mono's who've come before you.

 

[Magdlyn]

It looks like you made some real progress. Nice job! I wish you continued success.

I found that, within my relationship, spontaneity died fairly quickly, and I didn't have some guy hanging around my house! So I can see this being a real issue for you. For me it ended up feeling like booking a conference room.

I have my own business, which allows for flexibility. It also means there are situations which demand my attention, and in most cases it's not optional. So for me scheduling was difficult, because day to day, no one knows what will happen and what I'm required to do.

Also I learned I'm NOT a taco Tuesday kind of guy. I might not be in the mood for tacos on Tuesday!

In hindsight, I see two negative and natural cycles that happened:

1) Because of my schedule and personality, I would call or suggest things more last minute, and be told, "Sorry, I have plans." So, after a number of those, I stopped suggesting. I took it as a form of rejection because the sentiment was never returned.

When the lopsided nature of this was too large to ignore, she suggested a fixed date night for us. Normally (historically) we'd go to dinner and/or a movie or show on Friday or Saturday nights, because those activities could end up being late nights, and we both have to work in the morning.

Our fixed date night then became Wednesday nights. Friday and Saturday remained open/first come first serve, or family stuff (soccer or football games, etc., etc.) Because everything was new or changing, I agreed and decided to see how that would go.

2) The other negative cycle is along the lines of what you mentioned in one of your posts. I thought if her rhetoric were actually true, she would want to reach out for dates, time, and attention. So I decided to stop vying for that. If I was truly on her mind, or as important as she stated, I thought it was but a matter of time until I would see that.

Wrong! NRE was way more powerful than my logical brain had estimated. Disappointments built... Wonderful Wednesdays were filled with expectations and hope and hypersensitivity to mood or attitude and conduct. It took but a few texts or glances at a phone, or messages that "have to be replied to," or a forced or distant mood, until a negative cycle occured.

Yes, being hypersensitive wasn't going to help this situation, in fact it fed the negative cycle. However, as I've said before on here, this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. I became sensitive, and then over time, hypersensitive, as a result of words and action from my wife.

I sincerely reject the idea/position that whatever negative emotions a partner is having can be chalked up to jealousy/envy, and it's their shit to deal with. I think that attitude and the accompanied quick dismissal-- "Oh, that's your insecurity talking again... I can't make you secure... this is such a turn off/unattractive," really fuels the negative cycle.

I'd say back to back sex sessions is a big step forward, towards your goal of a three-way. However, I see both positives and negatives to this:

Because of it being home court, are you always going to get to go first? The plus for you being the opening act is:

You know the guy behind you is going to bat clean-up, which is way less stress. You don't have to worry about being the super lover, and you might not have time for that either! "Tick tock..."

The negative: How long is the loop for the dog walk? Performance issues/slow start could be embarrassing. Also, you might have to rush or stop because they'll be back soon.

If it's a round robin start, the positive of going second is:

1) First guy is the fluffer (porno term), he gets things going, there is less work for the second guy.

2) The big hitter, and the passion generated by the NRE, has satisfied her. You're going to be icing on the cake, or at worst, she might not notice or care what you're doing! In that case, do your thing, have fun, and don't look back.

3)You will have more time. You're more relaxed, because no one is breathing down your neck, with their hand up, yelling, "Next!"

The negatives might be:

1) The whole sloppy seconds thing, and swapping spit with this guy via body parts.

2) You might have performance anxieties, because of the bar being set high. You might be imagining not being able to match the last performer.

3) Your wife is less than interested because the last performer did a great job, and thus the sex ends up being more obligatory, or maintenance, or "taking one for the team," so you end up getting less out of the experience.

Two other negatives I thought of this morning, while letting my own dogs out, and seeing my neighbors walking and running their dogs, are: Your neighbors might figure out what's going on with the dog walking pattern: "There goes that guy walking the So-and-So's dog, and then, there goes Dan 30-40 minutes later walking the dog too!"

Also the dog might really really like this routine and come to expect all these walks. (My dogs are relentless at 7 pm; that's their walk time.)

Lastly, are you afraid of leaving them alone, because the thought of them having sex is upsetting? Or, is it a turn on, and you don't want to miss out? Do you think you might have a cuckold thing developing? This isn't meant to be insulting. It's just a question that comes up, based on what I'm reading from the other struggling monos who've come before you.

Wow, dingedheart, you really broke things down! Hehe, I like it. You match the OP for anxieties, obsessive thoughts, and "what if" scenarios to a T!

PS. I edited your post to add paragraph breaks.

 

[Magdlyn]

In my opinion, from the further info that you, Daniel, have given us, several things are going on:

First of all, all three of you are inexperienced, and stepping on each others' toes out of ignorance. Rather than merely coming here with your worries and woes, you should also be reading books such as More Than Two, Opening Up, and The Ethical Slut. There are certain predictable ways new poly relationships go. So, read the books and learn from the information there on how to overcome difficulties and avoid pitfalls. All three of you should read these books. Discuss them too!

Secondly, the wife is the hinge. As such, as other hinges here have stated, she has a responsibility to take care of both her partners. She can't just do what pleases her in the moment. Everything she does with one guy ripples over to the other guy. If she is a decent person, and truly poly, not just shopping for a new man, she should, indeed must, take care of both her partners, emotionally, sexually, etc. She is not operating in a vacuum. Nor is poly easier than being mono. It is much more complicated, and takes more work.

It sound to me like she is mostly just riding high on her NRE and pleasing herself by being all hot for New Guy. Therefore I do not think this is all on you. (As dinged also said.)

Next, you've got to stop hanging around them every time dude comes over! Whether you do it from fear of letting their relationship have time to develop (leading to her leaving you), or from FOMO (fear of missing out due to enjoying the sexual thrill of the cuddling sexy threeways), please, stop.

In a V/semi-triad such as yours there are four relationships:

You and wife
Him and wife
You and him
All three of you

Each relationship needs time and focus to develop. This is where scheduling comes in. This is where your wife needs to up her hinge skills, listen to how you are feeling, take action, and set some limits with New Guy, and ask for them to be met.

Yes, you have life things to do. No, you do not "need," or even desire, to sit on the couch and cuddle every damn minute New Guy is in your home.

All that said, confidence IS attractive. A whiny, anxious mess of a partner is not going to be appealing enough to get fucked often or well.

So, all three of you need to step up your poly game. New Guy does too! He is also just riding the sexy wave of his own NRE, flying by the seat of his pants, waiting for his zipper to come down.

You all need to get some sense, take some time, and make some decisions around how to make this V/triad really work and be healthy. Just traveling along on hormones and anxieties is not cutting it!

 

[Raymo]

Hey Danielsen. I think one of the biggest blockers for you is to deal with your insecurity, and comparing yourself to others. One new development in psychology that specifically addresses insecurity is practicing self compassion, as presented by Kristin Neff in her lovely book on the subject. I'll try to summarize here, but it's clinically very helpful when treating individuals with anxiety and insecurity.

Self compassion is essentially a combination of a three things: mindfulness, self-kindness, and common humanity. First, it's being mindful. That means identifying your emotions when they happen. You seem to be doing at this, when you identify your insecurity and when you feel certain emotions in your "gut." Putting a label on them is pretty helpful too: fear, anxious, jealous etc. Mindfulness is also about feeling what you need to feel. It's not about minimizing your feelings, or trying to avoid them, it's about comforting yourself when them, and then treating them with kindness. It's best not to concentrate on avoiding them, because that can actually make you feel negative feelings longer. It's like what happens when you ask someone to try their best not think about a polar bear....they end up thinking of a polar bear, until they stop trying not to think about one. Which brings me to the next element of self compassion.

Next is being kind to yourself, and treating yourself as a friend. This seems to be where you are stumbling. Suppose your friend was practicing poly, and he was feeling anxious about his wife spending time with her new interest. Would you tell your friend that the other man could be a better lover than him, that he probably has a golden penis and that she might end up abandoning him? I personally wouldn't say these things to anyone and any talk like that to a friend is borderline abusive and hateful. So, why have that double standard with how we treat ourselves? We're often friendlier to our friends than we are to ourselves, and this can be the root of many of our insecurities. I think what would might help you is combining both mindfulness and self kindness. Start to recognize that negative self-talk when it's occurring. Then, picture yourself as your best-friend, and try to self-talk like how you would comfort a good friend. Heck, even hugging yourself might help. What Tell yourself something like, "Hey, pal, I know you feel insecure right now, but your wife has had plenty of wonderful sexual experiences with you, and she seems really into you. Look at how much she is trying to connect with you. She loves you, and it doesn't seem like she's too interested in leaving you." It's helpful to recognize that hateful talk, and replace it with comforting words and actions to yourself. It also helps if you ask yourself what you would do to your friends in the same situation as you, and what you would say to them. Then, say those exact things to yourself as a mantra.

The third element is recognizing a common humanity. The feelings you are feeling have probably been felt by thousands and millions of others. In our weaker times, we often all compare ourselves to others. Even in monogamy, we can wonder if we are as good as our current beloved's ex. By recognizing that your feelings are often felt by others, you can start to feel like you aren't isolated in your pain, and your anxiousness can often gradually subside.

I hope that helps!