New poly-relationship has me in crisis!
- Thread starter Danielsen
- Start date
Thanks for all the replies everyone and thanks Kevin for your analogy. I know it may seem like nothing is getting through to me, but I assure you it is. All your advice is helping me through this process and I feel more positive and confident then I did before. My wife is doing things right, giving me reassurance and having patients. Yesterday was amazing and I'm not going to ruin the progress this time by sharing insecurities with her; mainly because those insecurities are not so potent, but also cause I know she can't help me fix that shit. Anyways, yesterday the three of us went out for dinner and when we sat down I let them two sit side by side. My wife thought it would be awkward, but I assured her it wasn't, I know that she hadn't spent a lot of time with him recently. So I sat across the table from them, now these two are very energetic extroverts and I am an introvert more quiet so I can't always match their enthusiasm, but that's okay I didn't try I was just me and my wife saw that confidence. I felt good and relaxed, now because they were side by side I noticed he put his hand on her leg and poked her hugged her more then I could, but you know what, out of the blue she played footsie with me and looked at me flirty like and we whispered things to each other across the table. Then we held hands on the table. She wasn't just paying attention to one of us, we both got part of her romantically last night. She told me that she loves our subtle PDA (public display of affection) because he comes on strong and I never do. Now don't get me wrong I'm not keeping score I know she loves his energy and that translates to something exciting in the bedroom, but she really showed me last night that she equally loves me too and what I uniquely bring to her life. It was her night to stay with him so before she left she gave me a big long kiss left the room but not before she looked back and said I love you.
Thanks guys for your help so far, I am in a really good place mentally and I see hope. Your perspectives have helped me squash a lot of my negative misinterpretations no other sources have done that for me quite as well. This is a powerful forum, you guys are doing great things here. Talk to you all most likely not too soon I've got some stuff to work on myself.
Sincerely
Chris Danielsen
Thanks guys for your help so far, I am in a really good place mentally and I see hope. Your perspectives have helped me squash a lot of my negative misinterpretations no other sources have done that for me quite as well. This is a powerful forum, you guys are doing great things here. Talk to you all most likely not too soon I've got some stuff to work on myself.
Sincerely
Chris Danielsen
Hey guys,
Things are going pretty good I think, a lot of emotions to navigate through here. There have been some interesting positive developments, but I also have some minor concerns I could use some perspective on.
Well, recently, we were intimate for the first time in a while and that was positive. It showed that she was feeling emotionally connected to me and it didn't feel weird to her this time. However, I asked how it was for her and she said that the sex good, but I immediately question to myself, well why wasn't it great? When I asked her how it was for her, I guess she thought that was a loaded question and I feel like it is telling about my performance. She said that that night was a good starting point for us and that she feels like our sex life is going to be better then it was. I guess I still feel pressure in the bedroom to perform even though she tells me that she wants me to be me and that we have to redefine our sex life now that things have changed. I hope I can meet her at her new level.
The other concern I have is with her lack of interaction with me. Since Thursday, she has been gone away on a knitting retreat without either myself or the other guy naturally. She is getting a break and doing something that she loves to do for her. The other guy and I have been hanging out and bonding over some of our favorite TV programs. He and I get along even though we are opposite personality types he's just a nice guy that I feel relaxed around. Anyways, because we are sitting beside each other I can't help but notice that he and my wife text each other a lot more while she is gone on this trip, then her and I text each other. They have conversations and send each other lovey emoticons. I feel like I am lost in their wake and tonight they were having an interesting conversation via text and then he left to go home for the evening. All I got this evening was a "good night sweets." Sweets is our pet name for each other. I didn't even get so much as blown kiss or I love you. Aren't these absences of basic affection towards me very telling? Why wouldn't she instinctively say I love you to me? Just good night after texting all evening with the other guy I'm just secondary boring. I just don't know guys.
One more thing, the two of them talk about me and our relationship with my wife behind my back. I suppose my wife and I talk about him too behind his back, I'm not sure if this is healthy or not. I feel sort of like their case study. I have always been the one in this arrangement that has struggled the most to accept things so I understand their is a lot to sort through and we talk of the importance of communication which we all respect. I guess they were talking about our intimate time cause she has a lot still to sort in her head regarding our redefined sexual relationship and I don't really mind, I feel like we're processing things and I can talk to him and get advice on stuff about that, but is it weird that we are all so open about each other? We don't go into specific details about things, but we do share feelings and emotions regarding the other relationships.
I don't know, I'm feeling insecure tonight and I just hope that I am over-thinking things. I don't know what my relationship with my wife is suppose to look like anymore. I always thought that I love you would always be said before bed, or that she would want to talk to me about her interesting day, but instead I got four words and he got a conversation.
Things are going pretty good I think, a lot of emotions to navigate through here. There have been some interesting positive developments, but I also have some minor concerns I could use some perspective on.
Well, recently, we were intimate for the first time in a while and that was positive. It showed that she was feeling emotionally connected to me and it didn't feel weird to her this time. However, I asked how it was for her and she said that the sex good, but I immediately question to myself, well why wasn't it great? When I asked her how it was for her, I guess she thought that was a loaded question and I feel like it is telling about my performance. She said that that night was a good starting point for us and that she feels like our sex life is going to be better then it was. I guess I still feel pressure in the bedroom to perform even though she tells me that she wants me to be me and that we have to redefine our sex life now that things have changed. I hope I can meet her at her new level.
The other concern I have is with her lack of interaction with me. Since Thursday, she has been gone away on a knitting retreat without either myself or the other guy naturally. She is getting a break and doing something that she loves to do for her. The other guy and I have been hanging out and bonding over some of our favorite TV programs. He and I get along even though we are opposite personality types he's just a nice guy that I feel relaxed around. Anyways, because we are sitting beside each other I can't help but notice that he and my wife text each other a lot more while she is gone on this trip, then her and I text each other. They have conversations and send each other lovey emoticons. I feel like I am lost in their wake and tonight they were having an interesting conversation via text and then he left to go home for the evening. All I got this evening was a "good night sweets." Sweets is our pet name for each other. I didn't even get so much as blown kiss or I love you. Aren't these absences of basic affection towards me very telling? Why wouldn't she instinctively say I love you to me? Just good night after texting all evening with the other guy I'm just secondary boring. I just don't know guys.
One more thing, the two of them talk about me and our relationship with my wife behind my back. I suppose my wife and I talk about him too behind his back, I'm not sure if this is healthy or not. I feel sort of like their case study. I have always been the one in this arrangement that has struggled the most to accept things so I understand their is a lot to sort through and we talk of the importance of communication which we all respect. I guess they were talking about our intimate time cause she has a lot still to sort in her head regarding our redefined sexual relationship and I don't really mind, I feel like we're processing things and I can talk to him and get advice on stuff about that, but is it weird that we are all so open about each other? We don't go into specific details about things, but we do share feelings and emotions regarding the other relationships.
I don't know, I'm feeling insecure tonight and I just hope that I am over-thinking things. I don't know what my relationship with my wife is suppose to look like anymore. I always thought that I love you would always be said before bed, or that she would want to talk to me about her interesting day, but instead I got four words and he got a conversation.
I am wondering what that means: "redefining our sex lifes". Do you know it? The immediate question after the act, how it was for the other is not such a great idea imho. She is also responsible for her experience and if she misses something she should tell you by herself.
The lack of attention after the knitting retreat is not very nice indeed. She has a responsibility to you and it looks to me, she has neglected it. But you need to open your mouth and require it (believe me - I know how hard this is). Say to her you want her to sit next to you for half an hour and tell about the day/event. Or go with her to bed and cuddle.
If there is a lack of attention in the long term and if this has changed with the arrival of the other guy then this is another aspect and needs to be discussed seperately.
Just don't compare so much. Focus more on what you really need. Not what you want because he gets it.
About the openness: I wouldn't give this much importance. She processes things through it and this is fine. It doesn't affect you really in the end. The other guys learns weak points of yours. Lets assume he has good intentions than he will use the knowledge wisely and avoid hitting them.
My wife was talking for hours with me about her guy. It somehow creates the notion that I am more important and have more power - since wife and I build a front vs. him. In reality this is not the case at all. The front is only temporary and the knowledge (as already stated above) does not give you power but just more responsiblity.
The lack of attention after the knitting retreat is not very nice indeed. She has a responsibility to you and it looks to me, she has neglected it. But you need to open your mouth and require it (believe me - I know how hard this is). Say to her you want her to sit next to you for half an hour and tell about the day/event. Or go with her to bed and cuddle.
If there is a lack of attention in the long term and if this has changed with the arrival of the other guy then this is another aspect and needs to be discussed seperately.
Just don't compare so much. Focus more on what you really need. Not what you want because he gets it.
About the openness: I wouldn't give this much importance. She processes things through it and this is fine. It doesn't affect you really in the end. The other guys learns weak points of yours. Lets assume he has good intentions than he will use the knowledge wisely and avoid hitting them.
My wife was talking for hours with me about her guy. It somehow creates the notion that I am more important and have more power - since wife and I build a front vs. him. In reality this is not the case at all. The front is only temporary and the knowledge (as already stated above) does not give you power but just more responsiblity.
To me feelings ensue after behavior.
Have you considered could go like this:
If you are experiencing poly hell feelings, I think it would be more direct to ask you wife for what you need.
YOU could start up a good night convo.
"Could you be willing to tell me about your day? I need connection. I miss you when you are gone. A little more chat before bed would help me. Are you up for chatting for 15 min?"
That behavior is you getting your tank filled up.
What is wrong with good sex?
Sitting around comparing, overthinking.... That behavior is you draining your tank.
Looking at that example in more detail... you start out with you focused on good stuff and then bam. You put in the doom. Your focus changes to "hunting for doom things."
Wassup with that thinking pattern? Can you not stop yourself at the good stuff? You prefer not feed your "secure tank" by relaxing into the cozy after good sex with your wife? Why feed the "insecure tank?"
You are not your thoughts or feelings. You are the person DOING the thinking, EXPERIENCING the feelings. Some thoughts are wrong, and inspire yucky feelings. If I wake up in the night and think I see a burglar in the corner I am going to feel scared. If on second glance I see it is the tree outside shadow, I am going to think "Whew! I thought wrong! It was the tree shadow!" and feel relieved. Feelings ensue after behavior.
If "Why wasn't it great?" thoughts come up like popcorn and inspire yucky feelings?
You are allowed to think AGAIN. Answer back "Nope. I don't feel like eating bad popcorn thoughts tonight. I just had good sex with my wife. I want to cuddle her and go to sleep. Shoo, popcorn thought!" And dismiss it.
When you get into these ruminations....Maybe that could help you break out? Asking yourself "Is this filling or draining my tank? What could I do to help fill?"What do I want to feed? Secure bucket or insecure bucket?"
It is possible to change thinking patterns or habits. If you need more help, you could seek a counselor. That too would be you asking for help to fill your secure tank rather than draining it.
So what if he got four words. And you got four words. Would you still be feeling a connection need because she's away on a trip? Probably.
Stop making your focus be about him and what he gets. Focus on what YOU need to be able to see over the fence. You guys do not have to get the same number of boxes. You just need to get what YOU need.
Maybe this picture helps you with that perspective you are asking for.
Could learn to ask for what you need up front. Rather than going off into your head thinking doom things. That ADDS to your problems rather than TAKE AWAY.
My 2 cents,
Galagirl
Galagirl
Have you considered could go like this:
"I overthink things. I compare. (thinking behaviors) I then feel insecure. (feelings)"
If you are experiencing poly hell feelings, I think it would be more direct to ask you wife for what you need.
YOU could start up a good night convo.
"Could you be willing to tell me about your day? I need connection. I miss you when you are gone. A little more chat before bed would help me. Are you up for chatting for 15 min?"
That behavior is you getting your tank filled up.
"She said sex was good. Why wasn't it great?"
What is wrong with good sex?
Sitting around comparing, overthinking.... That behavior is you draining your tank.
Looking at that example in more detail... you start out with you focused on good stuff and then bam. You put in the doom. Your focus changes to "hunting for doom things."
Wassup with that thinking pattern? Can you not stop yourself at the good stuff? You prefer not feed your "secure tank" by relaxing into the cozy after good sex with your wife? Why feed the "insecure tank?"
You are not your thoughts or feelings. You are the person DOING the thinking, EXPERIENCING the feelings. Some thoughts are wrong, and inspire yucky feelings. If I wake up in the night and think I see a burglar in the corner I am going to feel scared. If on second glance I see it is the tree outside shadow, I am going to think "Whew! I thought wrong! It was the tree shadow!" and feel relieved. Feelings ensue after behavior.
If "Why wasn't it great?" thoughts come up like popcorn and inspire yucky feelings?
You are allowed to think AGAIN. Answer back "Nope. I don't feel like eating bad popcorn thoughts tonight. I just had good sex with my wife. I want to cuddle her and go to sleep. Shoo, popcorn thought!" And dismiss it.
When you get into these ruminations....Maybe that could help you break out? Asking yourself "Is this filling or draining my tank? What could I do to help fill?"What do I want to feed? Secure bucket or insecure bucket?"
It is possible to change thinking patterns or habits. If you need more help, you could seek a counselor. That too would be you asking for help to fill your secure tank rather than draining it.
So what if he got four words. And you got four words. Would you still be feeling a connection need because she's away on a trip? Probably.
Stop making your focus be about him and what he gets. Focus on what YOU need to be able to see over the fence. You guys do not have to get the same number of boxes. You just need to get what YOU need.
Maybe this picture helps you with that perspective you are asking for.
Could learn to ask for what you need up front. Rather than going off into your head thinking doom things. That ADDS to your problems rather than TAKE AWAY.
My 2 cents,
Galagirl
Galagirl
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Thank you for your advice. What concerns me about asking is that I shouldn't have to ask her to tell me I love you. I don't want her to say I love you, or I miss you because I asked her, to me the hurt comes when I realize that she didn't say those things or come to those feelings naturally if she loves me truly wouldn't she say those things because she felt it? If she is not saying those things maybe the flame has gone out I want to tell her I love her cause that's how I feel not because she asks for it.
I will be frank. To me this sounds like you don't like feeling vulnerable. The first thoughts go "I need X. I might have to ask." And because thinking about asking and being vulnerable feels uncomfortable to you? Your seconds thoughts "defend" against that feeling by getting on your high horse a bit -- "I should not have to ask for that. Hmmph!"
And then you find out it is lonely up there.
You could learn to replace "should and shouldn't" with "could." You could let go of wanting her to mind reader you. Speak your truth. Speak up. Become willing to ask for what you need simply. Without judgement of her or you attached to it.
I say to my spouse often...
"Please, tell me you love me!"
"Kiss my nose, please!"
in play. He obliges because he's happy to do so and he does love me. It is fun to sneak off into a corner for a minute and smooch/tickle fight. To me you sound like you want some of that. Engage with your wife. Stop making emotional distance between you.
Why not? Cuz you might get the attention and reconnection you need? And then you might feel better?
To me this is out of order. Feelings ensue AFTER behavior. So I take the liberty of organizing it so.
- I think she doesn't say those things or come to those feelings naturally (if I ask)
- Then I feel hurt.
I think you are the person making your own hurt, dude. You could learn to stop putting YOUR thoughts on her. That's projection. Same thing as putting your words in her mouth.
I think it is natural for loving partners to ask each other stuff sometimes. I think it is natural for loving partners to want to contribute to each other's well being sometimes.
Is it that you say "naturally" and what you MEAN is that you want her to mind reader you so she just meets your needs without you asking for her help?
That's not natural. That's wanting her to have a supernatural power. Nobody can be a mind reader.
Sure. She will say those things on her own sometimes. My spouse tells me he loves me on his own sometimes. I can enjoy BOTH:
- The times he tells me he loves me on his own initiative.
- AND the times when I ask for some attention and initiate. Then we go play for a minute in the corner for "I love you's", smooches and whatnot.
Could you enjoy both too?
Stuff is missing there. I'll take the liberty filling in the gaps.
Could learn to say it all. What you see/hear. What you think about it. What feelings come up. Because your feelings ensue after your behavior.
Solution could become clearer then: Could ask her to reaffirm her love for you. Could go initiate and fan some flames yourself.
Cuz maybe she's not saying she loves you right now because she's peeling potatoes for dinner. Don't make it bigger in your head than what it is. Keep it simple. Go easier on yourself.
She could come to you and say "I could use a hug. Could you be willing to hug me and tell me you love me?" and you would say "No" just because she's asking?
I'm not saying to pretend to love her if you really don't. But if you don't love her, then the problem is not her asking for hugs is it? It's you choosing to be married to someone you do not love.
You sound like you do love your wife though. And you struggle with distorted thinking.
I think you could benefit from reading about twisted thinking and perhaps seek a counselor if you need help to untwist. See if learning new thinking patterns helps you feel better. Helps you handle things better.
Hang in there!
Galagirl
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Hi Danielsen,
if she asks you to hug her but you don't feel much like it, you would do it anyway, right? Just do not hurt her and be nice. That's how we are - I see much of myself in your statements. And now you think your wife is similar.
THAT'S probably NOT TRUE. Others ARE different. And we need to change too - especially in a poly setup. Everything is a little more explicit.
Don't retreat like a bunny and wait in your little hole until she follows you - as she probably did in the previous years, because there was only you.
Her basic needs for intimacy (and/or sex) might be satisfied at the moment by the other guy. So her attention to you might be sometimes more out of respect and the knowledge to your needs then from a basic feelings. That doesn't mean she does not love you. The respect (consious attention) might not feel like love to you - but it is. Why should she bring up the effort if she wouldn't love you?
So - come out of your comfy hole with the dark thoughts. GalaGirl provided you lots of advice how to do this.
if she asks you to hug her but you don't feel much like it, you would do it anyway, right? Just do not hurt her and be nice. That's how we are - I see much of myself in your statements. And now you think your wife is similar.
THAT'S probably NOT TRUE. Others ARE different. And we need to change too - especially in a poly setup. Everything is a little more explicit.
Don't retreat like a bunny and wait in your little hole until she follows you - as she probably did in the previous years, because there was only you.
Her basic needs for intimacy (and/or sex) might be satisfied at the moment by the other guy. So her attention to you might be sometimes more out of respect and the knowledge to your needs then from a basic feelings. That doesn't mean she does not love you. The respect (consious attention) might not feel like love to you - but it is. Why should she bring up the effort if she wouldn't love you?
So - come out of your comfy hole with the dark thoughts. GalaGirl provided you lots of advice how to do this.
Thanks galagirl for your last thoughtful posts they were very helpful to me. You have great advice.
Is it normal for me to feel lonely and sad. Cause I am having a hard day and I just feel like things will never be normal. My wife gets back from her retreat tonight and the three of us are going to have beers but I can't stop thinking about how things are not the way they use to be and I hope my wife still feels strongly for me. I just don't always feel like I'm in her thoughts like I use to be. I'm sorry for my pitiful display I'm just feeling so desolate and without love. How do I learn how to let her go. How do I get over the fact that she is not all mine anymore and I'm not all she wants anymore. I think of the times before when it was just the two of us. How do I give that up? Oh God I'm so sad today. Other days I'm confident and stronger, today I'm a basket case of emotions. Those two are so alike and my wife and I are so different. What am I to her anymore anyways? I'm the one here that makes things difficult. Those two are happy and content but they always have to cater to my emotional instability. Maybe they are better off without me. Maybe I'm not cut out for this. It's just so hard sometimes.
Is it normal for me to feel lonely and sad. Cause I am having a hard day and I just feel like things will never be normal. My wife gets back from her retreat tonight and the three of us are going to have beers but I can't stop thinking about how things are not the way they use to be and I hope my wife still feels strongly for me. I just don't always feel like I'm in her thoughts like I use to be. I'm sorry for my pitiful display I'm just feeling so desolate and without love. How do I learn how to let her go. How do I get over the fact that she is not all mine anymore and I'm not all she wants anymore. I think of the times before when it was just the two of us. How do I give that up? Oh God I'm so sad today. Other days I'm confident and stronger, today I'm a basket case of emotions. Those two are so alike and my wife and I are so different. What am I to her anymore anyways? I'm the one here that makes things difficult. Those two are happy and content but they always have to cater to my emotional instability. Maybe they are better off without me. Maybe I'm not cut out for this. It's just so hard sometimes.
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dingedheart
Well-known member
From the recent comments it almost seems like the op is in a lose lose situation.
If he's experiencing poly hell ...(demotion, displacement intrusion). IF ??? I' m pretty sure when a spouse of many yrs announces they aren't able to have sex with you because of " connection " following the introduction of a new sex partner you're going to feel displaced and maybe demoted....and some intrusion just in this one area.
I think it's great for those who are hinge people to have commented however it might not be the most accurate picture. It sounds like this guy is continually reacting to his home life/ " new marraige " and the stuff happening within his four walls aren't all happening in a vacuum and not all in his head.
Would like to know if any of the people commented as hinges have ever had the shoe on the other foot ?? And how did it feel...and feed their thought decison train?
Having been on his side of things I completely understand to want expressions of love be it words or romantic actions be natural ....the way they once were...or the way the new guy might be getting treated. How is that unreasonable ??
Obligatory dates or time .......or better still obligatory sex was the last thing I'd want or the last thing I'd ask for.
People know and remember how things were the energy that once was .....and how things are now. Your gut can sense something's off or different. Add in new words and actions and people wonder why over thinking occurs. Yes many women have talked here about " faking it " (in terms of the loss desire for their spouse ) in hopes it will return after the NRE dies down however I for one would rather not play that game.
Who feels good feeling vulnerable ? Who feels good after sex with spouse and having said spouse say ..." um yeah ...we're going to have to redefine our sexual relationship" And it's his fault at over thinking things. I'm not so sure he's misreading the words, the actions and the energy that he's been living with for years and then again the past weeks or months.
lose lose ....ask for, talk about everything and you're a clingy insecure asshole. Let her do as she wants ......let her redefine/ define your marraige, time together, sex life and then end up neglected and pissed off and bitter it's your own fault because she isn't a mind reader.
My comments were in relation to prior to # 131 ^it came in while I was writing this.
My comment on 131 .....you're not in your wife's thought as you use to be. Sad fact.
" How to get over that she is not all mine anymore ...and I'm not all she wants .....and the time it was just the 2 of you "
You might want to see a grief counselor and also look at the value added to your life by staying in this marriage or relationship. Maybe you need to redefine how you want that to look.
If he's experiencing poly hell ...(demotion, displacement intrusion). IF ??? I' m pretty sure when a spouse of many yrs announces they aren't able to have sex with you because of " connection " following the introduction of a new sex partner you're going to feel displaced and maybe demoted....and some intrusion just in this one area.
I think it's great for those who are hinge people to have commented however it might not be the most accurate picture. It sounds like this guy is continually reacting to his home life/ " new marraige " and the stuff happening within his four walls aren't all happening in a vacuum and not all in his head.
Would like to know if any of the people commented as hinges have ever had the shoe on the other foot ?? And how did it feel...and feed their thought decison train?
Having been on his side of things I completely understand to want expressions of love be it words or romantic actions be natural ....the way they once were...or the way the new guy might be getting treated. How is that unreasonable ??
Obligatory dates or time .......or better still obligatory sex was the last thing I'd want or the last thing I'd ask for.
People know and remember how things were the energy that once was .....and how things are now. Your gut can sense something's off or different. Add in new words and actions and people wonder why over thinking occurs. Yes many women have talked here about " faking it " (in terms of the loss desire for their spouse ) in hopes it will return after the NRE dies down however I for one would rather not play that game.
Who feels good feeling vulnerable ? Who feels good after sex with spouse and having said spouse say ..." um yeah ...we're going to have to redefine our sexual relationship" And it's his fault at over thinking things. I'm not so sure he's misreading the words, the actions and the energy that he's been living with for years and then again the past weeks or months.
lose lose ....ask for, talk about everything and you're a clingy insecure asshole. Let her do as she wants ......let her redefine/ define your marraige, time together, sex life and then end up neglected and pissed off and bitter it's your own fault because she isn't a mind reader.
My comments were in relation to prior to # 131 ^it came in while I was writing this.
My comment on 131 .....you're not in your wife's thought as you use to be. Sad fact.
" How to get over that she is not all mine anymore ...and I'm not all she wants .....and the time it was just the 2 of you "
You might want to see a grief counselor and also look at the value added to your life by staying in this marriage or relationship. Maybe you need to redefine how you want that to look.
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Glad it helped some. I'm sorry you are having a hard day today.
Yes. You are in transitional space. It's normal for things to feel weird. The "old normal" is gone. The "new normal" is not here yet. It takes TIME to build. So the "in between space" is weird. Sadness might be among the many things you will feel.
I notice you use "feel" in place of "think" sometimes. Could save "feel" for feeling words like sad, mad, happy. Could learn to identify label your thoughts with "think."
Then it becomes
Does thinking things will never be normal ADD to the hard day or TAKE AWAY from the hard day? Sounds like add to me. Could stop that behavior.
You are not your thoughts. You are the person DOING the thinking. Take charge. Could strive to have a more disciplined mind and not go all monkey mind. Learn to tame that anxiety stuff.
Note I'm not saying to live like an ostrich with head in the sand. I'm saying to not get caught up in thoughts that are not actually productive. Do not be ADDING to your load if you can help it. Could change "Things will never be normal!" to "Today is extra challenging. I will get through it one thing at a time. What do I need?"
Could move on to problem solving thinking -- identify what you need, assess if you are getting it or not.
Then move on to making a plan to address the things that need addressing.
Less "going off in your head churning up clouds" and more "dealing with what's on the table head on."
If the core issue is that you initially agreed to be in a 3 people thing and now after 2 mos you have found it is just NOT your thing? If your heart not really in it and you do not really want to be here?
You could choose to stop participating. Be honest and end it. Bow out and get you out of the line of fire so your suffering can stop. Don't torture yourself doing things you do not really want to do.
Wife can make her choices from there.
I strongly suggest you seek a counselor to help sort out your thoughts and give you extra support. There's no shame in getting help. But you have to know what the help and support is for:
Galagirl
Yes. You are in transitional space. It's normal for things to feel weird. The "old normal" is gone. The "new normal" is not here yet. It takes TIME to build. So the "in between space" is weird. Sadness might be among the many things you will feel.
I notice you use "feel" in place of "think" sometimes. Could save "feel" for feeling words like sad, mad, happy. Could learn to identify label your thoughts with "think."
Then it becomes
"I am having a hard day. I think things will never be normal."
Does thinking things will never be normal ADD to the hard day or TAKE AWAY from the hard day? Sounds like add to me. Could stop that behavior.
You are not your thoughts. You are the person DOING the thinking. Take charge. Could strive to have a more disciplined mind and not go all monkey mind. Learn to tame that anxiety stuff.
Note I'm not saying to live like an ostrich with head in the sand. I'm saying to not get caught up in thoughts that are not actually productive. Do not be ADDING to your load if you can help it. Could change "Things will never be normal!" to "Today is extra challenging. I will get through it one thing at a time. What do I need?"
Could move on to problem solving thinking -- identify what you need, assess if you are getting it or not.
- Are you being treated well here? Getting what you need?
- Are you not being treated well here? Not getting what you need?
Then move on to making a plan to address the things that need addressing.
Less "going off in your head churning up clouds" and more "dealing with what's on the table head on."
If the core issue is that you initially agreed to be in a 3 people thing and now after 2 mos you have found it is just NOT your thing? If your heart not really in it and you do not really want to be here?
You could choose to stop participating. Be honest and end it. Bow out and get you out of the line of fire so your suffering can stop. Don't torture yourself doing things you do not really want to do.
Wife can make her choices from there.
I strongly suggest you seek a counselor to help sort out your thoughts and give you extra support. There's no shame in getting help. But you have to know what the help and support is for:
- Help you adjust to changes, because you want to be here.
- Help you adjust to letting go and ending things because you really do NOT want to be here.
Galagirl
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Hi Danielsen, this sentence popped out for me reading your last post. I am sorry that you're struggling at the moment, but I think it might help you to concentrate on what you wrote here and to adjust the way you are thinking about things. She was never 'all yours' and you were never 'all she wanted'. It might have seemed that way, naively, but I think it's really not helpful to rose-tint the past. She always needed friends and other loved ones in her life - and perhaps she even used to crave romantic attention from others too. There may not have been other romantic interests in her sphere, but the fact that there weren't others there actively vying for her attention wasn't the thing that made your relationship with her special back then, just as the fact that there is someone else here now doesn't mean that your relationship with her is LESS special now.
I know it's hard to adjust, but really, you need to stop comparing. That doesn't mean you need to sit back and retreat though. If anything, it sounds like you are becoming a bit passive in your relationship. Perhaps you have been for a while. Your previous posts about being upset at the lack of texting from her while she was away (when compared to the volume you saw with her other lover)…I was wondering, honestly, how much would you two stay in touch before he arrived on the scene for something like that? Often, longer-term couples *don't* text as much. I certainly see that in my relationships. We are more established, we don't need constant reassurance of our loving feelings for one another, we miss each other when we're away but we know it's just for a few days and we've been apart for that long before, etc,etc. Our history together shows that we don't need to stay in constant contact to stay close.
I wonder if this is subconsciously all that was going on there - you are feeling less secure right now so need more attention, but your wife is still feeling very secure in you and her, and hasn't quite caught up to the fact that some of these things have changed. The new love interest on the other hand, is new. She will instinctively seek to reassure, and invest, and communicate there because it's at that fragile early stage where without energy being put in it will fizzle out and die. And I agree with others that you *do* need to reach out to her more when you a re struggling. Did you text her, try to initiate chat, ask her how the retreat went? Or were you feeling crap and insecure, feeling worse by putting yourself in a situation where you could compare their interaction with yours, and then having brain weaselish thoughts like 'if she cared about my suffering she would do X' and 'she doesn't even notice that I don't act like Y…therefore she doesn't care', and so on?
(I have been in that situation before, and so I'm saying this without judgement - when I was in a triad with Nina and Jay, I felt driven mad by the fact I knew how often they were communicating with each other and how differently I perceived communication of them to me. I eventually figured out that my *own* communication habits had changed because of my insecurities, and I was retreating and not initiating or cueing conversation my end as much as I used to, which was sending a bunch of mixed signals out there to them. Anyway. I digress. Back to you.)
Honestly, and I don't mean this to sound too harsh here, but you seem to be making this all about you. And it's not about you. Her actions in life are not about you, they're about her. AND THEY ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. It's just that when you felt better in yourself and in your relationship, you never expected her every action to be orientated to your happiness and comfort, you follow? Now, you are hurting, it is your expectations that have changed. You want and seek comfort from her now in a way you haven't for years. And you see it being offered to another and it makes you feel worse. It's not that it used to be given freely and now it's not - it's that the whole situation has changed, and your perceptions of how things were have changed as a result. So you probably do need to ask her directly for that attention and comfort, because it's the kind of thing that you are generally past needing in a long-term relationship. I hope that makes sense.
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
Danielsen, to tenK's heartfelt and insightful post I will add that this seems to be one of those moments that Life likes to dish out as an opportunity to mature and feel better all around. I'm going to guess that your marriage is not the only thing you can feel tossed about by. Much of what makes a mature relationship (as tenK describes) also makes a mature person: the experience and confidence in knowing that no matter the ups and downs, the welcome or unwelcome behavior of others, the changes that spring up, we remain solid in and of ourselves. Part of maturing is knowing, through experience, that inner peace can thrive in all conditions, and the opportunity to gain this experience often comes during a crisis when we're filled with anxiety about some outer circumstance. I mention this only to offer the perspective that yes, approaching loved ones for reassurance can be helpful, but really what sees us through a lifetime of many changes is a strong peace of mind that comes from knowing that we are the captains of our own ships. This is what GalaGirl alludes to when she says that we are the thinkers, not the thoughts themselves. We can always choose thoughts that work better in any circumstance and the more you do this, the better you get at it and the more naturally you think thoughts that support a peaceful life rather than thoughts that lead down a more rocky road. I encourage you to see this crisis moment as an opportunity to gain persepctive that affords you a more grounded approach to life in general, a perspective that is built on the solid foundation of you and not on the unpredictable and uncontrollable actions of the many people in your life.
Wow. That's so true.
Let three months pass and everything looks better and more normal again.
Danielson, I went back to read your OP... this new relationship of your wife's has only been going on since February. 2 months! And it seems there was no indication she was poly before she developed romantic feelings for this mutual friend of both of yours.
It can take months or years for a previously mono couple to adjust to polyamory. You're going through a lake of fire. Adding in you were your wife's first and only sexual partner til now, no wonder you feel like you're going crazy with envy and grief and loss. You lost the relationship shape you felt comfortable in. A big change happened!
How long have you and your wife been together? How long were you two comfortable with no major changes in your lives?
You've gotten some good advice here about asking for what you need. Your wife may well be neglecting your needs, but she's a noob to poly too. She isn't being a really great hinge instinctively, but it sounds like she is trying.
This is a long thread, and it may have been mentioned already, but have your two read any good poly books together, like Opening Up, or More Than Two? This forum is great, but those books might give you (and her) more specific info about how to negotiate new poly waters.
BTW, you indicated your wife loves you and the Other Guy equally. I kind of doubt that. They are infatuated with each other, sure. It can seem more intense because it's new and exciting. You may feel like the old shoe, boring, worn out a bit. Not as shiny. But you're like a favorite pair of jeans, comfortable, shaped to her figure. New Guy is a new pair of jeans, pretty, but not as comfy. He will eventually be just as familiar as you, and the NRE will fade.
Long term relationships go through phases. I was married for 30 years, and our relationship went through NRE, then happy calm times, distant times (due to life stresses, jobs, illnesses, kids, ailing or dying relatives), and then rekindled sexy intimate times, over and over again.
If you can keep getting support and information here, and through books and websites, you may come to an even better relationship with your wife. She has opened a new side of herself to you, through falling for your friend. It's inevitable and tempting to want the old wife back, but the new version may become more exciting for you, as it unfolds and develops, rough edges are smoothed out, and you continue to ask her to meet your needs for reassurance and sexual connection.
It can take months or years for a previously mono couple to adjust to polyamory. You're going through a lake of fire. Adding in you were your wife's first and only sexual partner til now, no wonder you feel like you're going crazy with envy and grief and loss. You lost the relationship shape you felt comfortable in. A big change happened!
How long have you and your wife been together? How long were you two comfortable with no major changes in your lives?
You've gotten some good advice here about asking for what you need. Your wife may well be neglecting your needs, but she's a noob to poly too. She isn't being a really great hinge instinctively, but it sounds like she is trying.
This is a long thread, and it may have been mentioned already, but have your two read any good poly books together, like Opening Up, or More Than Two? This forum is great, but those books might give you (and her) more specific info about how to negotiate new poly waters.
BTW, you indicated your wife loves you and the Other Guy equally. I kind of doubt that. They are infatuated with each other, sure. It can seem more intense because it's new and exciting. You may feel like the old shoe, boring, worn out a bit. Not as shiny. But you're like a favorite pair of jeans, comfortable, shaped to her figure. New Guy is a new pair of jeans, pretty, but not as comfy. He will eventually be just as familiar as you, and the NRE will fade.
Long term relationships go through phases. I was married for 30 years, and our relationship went through NRE, then happy calm times, distant times (due to life stresses, jobs, illnesses, kids, ailing or dying relatives), and then rekindled sexy intimate times, over and over again.
If you can keep getting support and information here, and through books and websites, you may come to an even better relationship with your wife. She has opened a new side of herself to you, through falling for your friend. It's inevitable and tempting to want the old wife back, but the new version may become more exciting for you, as it unfolds and develops, rough edges are smoothed out, and you continue to ask her to meet your needs for reassurance and sexual connection.
Hey guys, so believe it or not, things are going so well. After my last post and all the comments I received, I was going to talk to my wife after the retreat about what I needed reassurance wise. Turns out I didn't need to because all my insecurities were in my head and she gave me all the reassurance I was looking for when she returned. This has continued and believe it or not I have nothing negative to report. We are all doing well settling into normal and I am so happy to see how happy my wife is. She truly loves us both. An interesting development has arised in all of this. My wife loves to cuddle both of us at the same time on the couch we've been doing this and she says it's weird but it feels so comfortable. I love it because I feel loved by her still and I like the other guy a lot we're good friends. It's a loving secure unit and it feels amazing and I look at the other guy and I'm not jealous of him or resentful in anyway. Now recently when we were cuddling we guys were both touching intimate parts of her body not groping her or pleasuring her sexually but just touching restfully on her and she was comfortable with this. We all were. Is this normal? Could this type of thing possibly lead to a group sex thing? I was thinking about it and felt like I wouldn't mind if it did go that way. (can't believe I'm saying that), but like I said, everyone was comfortable even me. In the beginning, my wife would say she doesn't want orgies and that she keeps us separate, but she surprised herself about her comfort level with us both intimately cuddling her that evening. I caught her telling herself "this is wierd but don't overthink it cause it feels so comfortable and natural." I know we were just cuddling, but to me it felt intimate and we continue to have these close cuddle sessions. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it. I hope this wasnt an inappropriate post but I'm intrigued by these new developments and would value your thoughts on the matter.
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I am glad things are going better! I hope the good times continue!
There are all sorts of shapes in poly that are "normal." It all depends on the people involved. You and your metamour guy friend get along great. You are very lucky! Some metas feel neutral, or even dislike for each other. You can imagine that doesn't lead to 3way couch cuddles, much less 3way sex.
Take your time and let things flow. As I pointed out, all this is brand new to the three of you, only 2 months into it!
Personally I am not crazy about 3way sex. I find it too complicated usually. It's hard for me to coordinate all 3 people getting their stimulation and orgasms timed just right, so that no one feels left out, or is left sexually unfulfilled. But others like it a lot. (Hint: real life is NOTHING like porn videos.) You 3 will find what works for you!
There are all sorts of shapes in poly that are "normal." It all depends on the people involved. You and your metamour guy friend get along great. You are very lucky! Some metas feel neutral, or even dislike for each other. You can imagine that doesn't lead to 3way couch cuddles, much less 3way sex.
Take your time and let things flow. As I pointed out, all this is brand new to the three of you, only 2 months into it!
Personally I am not crazy about 3way sex. I find it too complicated usually. It's hard for me to coordinate all 3 people getting their stimulation and orgasms timed just right, so that no one feels left out, or is left sexually unfulfilled. But others like it a lot. (Hint: real life is NOTHING like porn videos.) You 3 will find what works for you!