New poly-relationship has me in crisis!

[GalaGirl]

Glad to hear things are more relaxed. Now that you experienced your wife reassuring freely I hope you become more willing to just ask when you are in need.

Yes, it is normal. This is your normal. Three people cuddles on couch. It does not have to be the same as anyone else's house. They have what is their normal in their household. At my pet-free house anything involving a pet would be unusual. My normal is pet free life. At my in laws, having dog stuff as part of life would be their normal.

Maybe that perspective helps you?

Enjoy how it is now in the present. Do not rush it to be something else or push for threesomes. Let things unfold naturally.

Hang in there!

Galagirl

 

[Danielsen]

I understand, thank you for the advice.

 

[zigzag]

Would be quite normal for us. And like you I have never had jealous feelings in these group situations. We do have 3somes occasionally and that works for us, obviously not for everyone.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Danielsen (Sorry I've been out of town for the past week or so),

Re (from Post #125):

"I asked how it was for her and she said that the sex good, but I immediately question to myself, well why wasn't it great?"

Just my opinion but I'm thinking you're reading too much into what she said. For instance, what if by "good" she actually meant "sex plus good?" Sex is already beyond great and defies description, don't you think?

Anyway, even if she meant it was "only good," that's okay because sex doesn't have to be "great" every time, and if it had been awhile since your last encounter with her, maybe the two of you need to get reacquainted with each other bedroom-wise.

To me it seems to be a mistake to look a gift horse in the mouth. You had sex and it was good. That's two plusses. Good is good. It is the opposite of bad. Maybe if you had bad sex there would have been more to worry about.

Re:

"I didn't even get so much as blown kiss or I love you. Aren't these absences of basic affection towards me very telling? Why wouldn't she instinctively say I love you to me? Just good night after texting all evening with the other guy ..."

I still think you're reading too much into what she says/does. I fear that you've developed a bad habit of assuming, and looking for, the worst possible explanation.

If you want your wife to text you more, you should tell her that. If you want blown kisses and I love you's, you should tell her that. At this point I think it's helpful to realize that she probably has an NRE thing going with the other guy. Sometimes NRE encourages us to do things with our new partner that we forget to do with our original partner. So yes, I think she needs you to actually tell her.

Re:

"One more thing, the two of them talk about me and our relationship with my wife behind my back. I suppose my wife and I talk about him too behind his back, I'm not sure if this is healthy or not ... I feel like we're processing things and I can talk to him and get advice on stuff about that, but is it weird that we are all so open about each other?"

Not necessarily. Based on your description of not going into specific details about things, and assuming you're keeping it positive and not saying a bunch of bad stuff about each other, it is reasonable and I would expect people to talk with their intimate others about things that are important to them. I mean it goes on in my V, and it doesn't seem to hurt us any. So I am guessing it's okay for you to do too.

Re (from Post #128):

"I shouldn't have to ask her to tell me I love you."

I suppose not, but again ... NRE. People experiencing NRE often need reminders. NRE often clouds their judgment.

Re (from Post #131):

"Is it normal for me to feel lonely and sad?"

Everyone feels that way from time to time. Now if you are feeling that way 24/7, that's more of a matter of concern.

Re (from Post #138):

"Now recently when we were cuddling we guys were both touching intimate parts of her body, not groping her or pleasuring her sexually, but just touching restfully on her and she was comfortable with this. We all were. Is this normal?"

Some polycules "group cuddle" in that way, so I would certainly characterize it as normal enough.

Re:

"Could this type of thing possibly lead to a group sex thing?"

Maybe. Would it be bad if it did?

I am glad to hear that things are going better for you guys now. Keep us posted!
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Danielsen]

Hey Kevin,
Thanks for your responses I really appreciate your dedication to my cause. We are all doing really well and i feel like I am getting a handle on things.

The biggest challenge (and it's not earth shattering) I have had to deal with is them having sex. My wife really helped me to understand that this thing is not just about the sex, in fact the sex is more of a byproduct. We had intimacy recently and unfortunately I didn't perform at my best and I felt really insecure about not pleasing her fully. She was saying that the biggest difference between him and me right now is that sex for him is about discovery, learning new things and being open and enjoying the journey. For me, my wife says its more about ego and that I am still comparing myself and that is not very attractive which I understand and don't get me wrong, she is being so patient with me. I guess she is right about my insecurity. She introduced me to a few subtle things that she would like me to try next time and I always jump to him vs me. She is enjoying it with him more then me and our last encounter wasn't the best i have ever done and I accept that. I'm still scared I guess that she will prefer him over me. She gives me enough assurances to convince me that is not the case. Even tonight, I think they are upstairs not having sex but doing other similar things and I want to be happy for them, but not at the expense of my happiness. She says there is still a little bit of stuff that she is sorting in her head when we have sex and that effects things, but we recently talked about that so she feels better about us in that dept. She is optimistic that our sex life can get better through this and I think the only thing that is holding me back is my ego. If I could just tap into that discovery mentality instead of oh shit i better do this or she'll never want sex with me anymore. I dunno what my point is, i guess I am just venting. Like I said she gives me reassurances in this dept, but I still find ways to not believe it and I get insecure about the intimacy. We are still working at it and she said that herself; and we clarified some things that should help us the next time.

Here's one thing that is not so vague. I think that they are exploring a lot of sexual things together that my wife and I never did together. For example, I think they have had sex in his car before, you know things like that. My concern is that there sex life is so much fun and exploratory and ours is just humdrum. Her and I have never had sex in the car, or done it in different places besides the bedroom, this makes me feel uneasy. She is having fun sexual adventures without me. Is this okay? Are they allowed to just have an awesome sex life and my wife and I just stick with routine? I don't know, it makes me feel jealous i guess. When my wife and I first started exploring sexuality we were way more timid. We didn't even have sex until we were married. These two are just like bunny rabbits. It makes me feel like our sex life has always been and is inadequate on a level. (Sorry I think I got a little rambly in this post).

 

[rubidoux]

Hi, Danielson. This is my first post here but I started reading this thread a while back. I'm wondering (and I'm sorry if this was addressed several pages ago) if you have had other lovers before your marriage (I know you were her first...) and also whether you have any interest in becoming involved with another partner.

I have only recently started experimenting with polyamory and from a very different starting point -- my marriage of 25 years recently ended. But I think anyone whose been operating from a monogamous mindset has some common themes to deal with.

I have also had fears that the men I'm involved with will be with someone who is somehow *better* than me, and I've been worried that they'll choose to be with others over being with me. As time goes on, though, I realize that of course other women that they're involved with are better at something, maybe even something important. I'm currently actively involved with three men and they are each better at some things than the others. Two of these guys have made sex a major priority in their lives and both have had upwards of 300 lovers over the years and the third, mere mortal that he is, can count his lovers on his fingers. Technically there's really no contest (sorry to all you mortals!), but I am really crazy over this third normal guy and get all melty when he touches me. Comparing them doesnt come naturally to me. I take them each on their own terms and they each are a package that really does it for me in one way or another. So when I think about that, how I feel about them, it makes me feel so much calmer about how I might stack up, as it were.

My point here, though, is that if you were also seeing other people, it might be easier to wrap your head around how she is able to love you without worrying about comparing the two of you. I'm not suggesting that you run out and start a relationship just for this purpose, but I do think as you gain more experience you'll have an easier time putting things into perspective.

BTW, I'm very impressed with how you've done with this so far. You were saying up thread that you felt bad bc they were fine and you were the only one having trouble and bringing everyone down. But, well obviously, they haven't been through anything like what you've been through with this (and I wouldn't be surprised if your wife would've had an awfully hard time if the tables were turned) and I think you've handled it very gracefully. You should be proud of yourself.

 

[LizziE]

Here's one thing that is not so vague. I think that they are exploring a lot of sexual things together that my wife and I never did together. For example, I think they have had sex in his car before, you know things like that. My concern is that there sex life is so much fun and exploratory and ours is just humdrum. Her and I have never had sex in the car, or done it in different places besides the bedroom, this makes me feel uneasy. She is having fun sexual adventures without me. Is this okay?

Yes, it is.

Are they allowed to just have an awesome sex life and my wife and I just stick with routine?

Who says that you and your wife have to stick with humdrum - and when did you start feeling it was humdrum? Why do you feel like it's humdrum?

I don't know, it makes me feel jealous i guess. When my wife and I first started exploring sexuality we were way more timid. We didn't even have sex until we were married. These two are just like bunny rabbits. It makes me feel like our sex life has always been and is inadequate on a level. (Sorry I think I got a little rambly in this post).

So here's a place where jealousy (imo) can be a tool for good.

You're hearing about them having sex in different places, and it sounds like it's stirred an interest in you - and an insecurity. Do you want to have sex in a car? On a boat? In the moat? With a fox and some socks? (I just couldn't resist putting some Dr Suess in there...)

About you feeling like your sex life has always been inadequate - only YOU can can address that feeling you have. Only YOU have the power to stop comparing and putting yourself (and your sex life) down. Your wife can't do that for you. All the awesome sex in the world can't do that for you, if you're letting a little voice in your head tell you that your sex life has always been inadequate.

But a thing you can do about your sex life - try new things - if you (and your wife) want to. Is there anything you haven't done, but always wondered about? Why not try it?

The point isn't to try it to create a competition or compare it against your wife's other partner, but to use this jealousy as a sign of something that YOU want yourself - maybe you never realized it before. Or maybe you did, but felt timid and afraid it would sound silly. Jealousy within polyamory can sometimes show us things like that - things that we've always wanted and never realized we wanted, or maybe felt too afraid of being judged to ask for. Use it for what it can be good for, which is looking into things you might enjoy that you haven't tried before.

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from Danielsen):

"We had intimacy recently and unfortunately I didn't perform at my best and I felt really insecure about not pleasing her fully."

Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy. You get nervous and insecure about not pleasing her fully and voilà! your performance suffers. And then that bleeds over into the next encounter because now your confidence has taken a hit. It's a problem of how the brain can affect all the other organs of the body. I know ... I've psyched myself into performance problems in the past (and may do so again in the future though I hope not).

It takes awhile to ease out of that vicious circle. Little by little you have to learn how to relax and ride the wave. At least that's what I've always had to do.

This isn't happening in a vacuum. You aren't used to your wife being intimate with another man. You aren't used to her having NRE with another man. It kind of freaks you out a lot of the time. It will take you awhile to get used to it.

Re:

"I want to be happy for them, but not at the expense of my happiness."

That's reasonable.

Re:

"I dunno what my point is, I guess I am just venting."

Nothing wrong with that.

Re:

"My concern is that their sex life is so much fun and exploratory and ours is just humdrum."

You're using the word "humdrum" to put yourself down. Suppose a woman had a BDSM lover, and another lover who was vanilla. Would she call the vanilla lover boring? Not likely. It's just two different styles of sex; if anything the difference between the two lovers makes both of them more exciting because switching from one to the other means she'll have a new and different experience. Who says your wife wants to give up "humdrum sex?" Maybe it's warm and comfortable to her, like a familiar blanket; is that so bad? I'm very boring and vanilla in bed, a fact that doesn't bother me in the least. I know I'm valued. A "boring" lover can have qualities like generosity and sensitivity -- arguably more important than being hot and sizzling. Does that help?

Re:

"Are they allowed to just have an awesome sex life and my wife and I just stick with routine?"

Absolutely. It's all about how you perceive things. If you see yourself in the worst possible light, naturally you'll freak and think he must be the better lover. He's not better, all he is is different. And that's a good thing -- for all three of you.

Routine = just as awesome as sex in a car. Routine can be exciting. "You know what I'm going to do, and you already know it's going to drive you mad, all over again." Rewrite the way you see yourself! *You* are a great lover. Just the way you are.

I don't mean you can't mix it up and try new things. I'm just suggesting there's no need to panic or be in a hurry about it. Enjoy the routine you've always enjoyed in the past. It's not a bad thing.

And as always, don't forget to factor their NRE into the equation. You won't have to compete with that forever.

 

[Lilyan]

Would less details about sexual exploring help?
I don't tell much nothing about my adventures with Dom for my husband Gavin, because I know he does a lot of comparing. I share only necessary info, like broken condom and need of morning-after pill... And the first question from Gavin was: "Oh you were fucking so hard you broke a condom?". Yes we were, thanks for asking.
Just go and have fun with your wife, do things both you and your wife enjoy. It's not a performance, it's a pleasure

 

[Danielsen]

Does all of this get easier with time? Do you really get to a place where you are happy with the way things are, or do you feel like you'll always have to live with some sadness due to the compromises you've had to make? I understand that it's not a question that can be answered for me and that the answer really depends on me and my attitude and understanding of poly. I just wonder if this thing is more beneficial for them because their newness is fun and exciting, you know romance all over again, NRE etc. I'm just the guy who has to sit back and watch it unfold and get use to things and compromise not because I ever asked for it. I'm not trying to sound unsupportive. It's just they're the ones having the fun, devloping pet names for each other. Making googly faces at each other, having their own brand of intimacy. What's my role, what do I get out of this and are those things in your opinion worth it? I'm only a couple of months in and I'm trying to see the future, especially cause I'm fairly certain he's going to be in it with us for the long haul. (I do like him, we're becoming really good friends) . I just want to believe that things will settle for me into blissful contentment again.

 

[InfinitePossibility]

I'd guess that whether or not it gets easier for you depends on whether or not you reach a place where this is what you want. You may come to like your wife having another (or more than one other) in her life for your own reasons. Or you may find new partners of your own and wish to be in a relationship where exploring new romance is not a threat to it. In that case, I'd imagine you'll be happy and content with the new normal in your life.

Time will tell. Do you have a plan for what to do if you find that you don't feel more positively?

IP

 

[Magdlyn]

Does all of this get easier with time? Do you really get to a place where you are happy with the way things are, or do you feel like you'll always have to live with some sadness due to the compromises you've had to make?

Many poly people, or monos in a relationship with a poly, do come to a place where they are quite happy. Of course. I do not feel "sad" when my gf has another lover, quite the contrary. Eventually you feel so confident with the whole process, you learn to develop compersion for your partner, joy and excitement at their joy, compassion, empathy, vicarious pleasure.

I understand that it's not a question that can be answered for me and that the answer really depends on me and my attitude and understanding of poly. I just wonder if this thing is more beneficial for them because their newness is fun and exciting, you know romance all over again, NRE etc. I'm just the guy who has to sit back and watch it unfold and get use to things and compromise not because I ever asked for it.

It can be fun to "watch it unfold." Kind of like reading a romance novel. When my gf has a new bf, or an especially good date, I get all excited and giggly hearing about it. And, I get some nice quiet "me-time" when she is otherwise occupied.

I'm not trying to sound unsupportive. It's just they're the ones having the fun, devloping pet names for each other. Making googly faces at each other, having their own brand of intimacy. What's my role, what do I get out of this and are those things in your opinion worth it? I'm only a couple of months in and I'm trying to see the future, especially cause I'm fairly certain he's going to be in it with us for the long haul. (I do like him, we're becoming really good friends) . I just want to believe that things will settle for me into blissful contentment again.

Well, you're lucky in that you like your metamour. Finding a new friend in your partner's partner is part of what you get out of it.

You can also develop a new pet name for your wife, and throw her some googly eyes. If she is too swept up in NRE and you feel neglected, make her notice you! Without being clingy or whiny, you can re-develop romance with her too, you know. You're still her partner, you can and should still have wild delicious sex. New Guy doesn't claim sole ownership in the romance and sex department.

It is great you feel New Guy is there for the long haul. After a while their NRE will wear off, he won't seem so perfect to her anymore, and vice versa. And you'll still be there, the man she chose to marry because she loves him so much.

 

[zigzag]

Many poly people, or monos in a relationship with a poly, do come to a place where they are quite happy. Of course. I do not feel "sad" when my gf has another lover, quite the contrary. Eventually you feel so confident with the whole process, you learn to develop compersion for your partner, joy and excitement at their joy, compassion, empathy, vicarious pleasure.



It can be fun to "watch it unfold." Kind of like reading a romance novel. When my gf has a new bf, or an especially good date, I get all excited and giggly hearing about it. And, I get some nice quiet "me-time" when she is otherwise occupied.



Well, you're lucky in that you like your metamour. Finding a new friend in your partner's partner is part of what you get out of it.

You can also develop a new pet name for your wife, and throw her some googly eyes. If she is too swept up in NRE and you feel neglected, make her notice you! Without being clingy or whiny, you can re-develop romance with her too, you know. You're still her partner, you can and should still have wild delicious sex. New Guy doesn't claim sole ownership in the romance and sex department.

It is great you feel New Guy is there for the long haul. After a while their NRE will wear off, he won't seem so perfect to her anymore, and vice versa. And you'll still be there, the man she chose to marry because she loves him so much.

For me this advice is so spot on. I have been through the same feelings, and you have my sympathy and love. But you must be positive. Don't concentrate on what your partner does with someone else but the 100s of brilliant things they do with you. For me reading More than Two and for bith of us following the advice on the related web site about jealousy management and becoming secure was really helpful.

My view is that is does get easier. My partner and her metamour do things now that do not even cause a missed heartbeat that a year ago would have kept me awake all night. I think this is due to a variety of things including: time and experience; better communication; learning from reading and support; this forum; talking.

 

[Kerala]

My metamour and wife are just comming back from a rock party. Something wife never did with me in the twentyfive years. So, be sure, I know what it means "to sit back and watch it unfold". My metamour is considerably younger than me - and than my wife - and he makes her younger too in the process. After being envious about that at first she changes her behavior towards me also, though slower than with him, and shows a younger self. She is also more romantic now.

However, I think the prerequesite to really enjoy all this (and more, like the me-time Magdlyn was mentioning) is to be secure in your own relation to her again. That security that was there all the years surely is damaged and needs to be rebuild and that takes more than two or three months.

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from Danielsen):

"Does all of this get easier with time?"

Sure, in most cases. That doesn't guarantee it in your situation, but it's a hopeful thought.

Re:

"Do you really get to a place where you are happy with the way things are, or do you feel like you'll always have to live with some sadness due to the compromises you've had to make?"

All I can tell you is that I myself am happy with the way things are for me. I can't predict your future. Do you want to keep trying to give polyamory a chance? That's a choice for you to decide, in every waking moment of every day.

If you do decide to keep trying, and a year goes by and you still feel awful because of polyamory, I might be inclined to say that's plenty of effort on your part. But it's your life, and you have to decide what's the longest amount of time you're willing to wait without feeling any improvement.

Re:

"It's just they're the ones having the fun, devloping pet names for each other. Making googly faces at each other, having their own brand of intimacy."

I hope they're not making a display of that in front of you. If they are, tell them to cut it out. Anyway, it's NRE, just like you said. It won't last forever.

Re:

"What's my role ..."

I don't think you need to play a role in their relationship. You don't even need to agree to go along with it. That's all up to you.

Re:

"What do I get out of this ..."

Ultimately, I think you have to ask yourself that question. If you ask yourself and the first thing that comes to your mind is, "Nothing," that's a sign that maybe polyamory isn't something you should have in your life.

So, what do *you* think you get out of this? Here. Now. Today.

Re:

"Are those things in your opinion worth it?"

I need you to tell me what you think "those things" are before I can render an opinion.

For what it's worth, don't forget my one February 16 post. There are possible benefits.

Re:

"I do like him, we're becoming really good friends."

Is that a plus for you? What do you think?

Re:

"I just want to believe that things will settle for me into blissful contentment again."

I want to point out that we all have our up days and down days. You can't just arrive at "eternal blissful contentment" and stay there. There's always going to be times when you struggle. That would be true even if you didn't have polyamory in your life.

Hang in there!
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[nycindie]

If you are having reactions to poly developments in your life, and those reactions are unpleasant or make you uncomfortable, I think that the best way to handle, reframe, or change your reactions is to change your belief system about what relationships should be or how they're "supposed to" go. Our beliefs are powerful, but they don't have to run our lives.

 

[FallenAngelina]

My metamour and wife are just comming back from a rock party. Something wife never did with me in the twentyfive years.

What is a rock party?

 

[Inyourendo]

If you are having reactions to poly developments in your life, and those reactions are unpleasant or make you uncomfortable, I think that the best way to handle, reframe, or change your reactions is to change your belief system about what relationships should be or how they're "supposed to" go. Our beliefs are powerful, but they don't have to run our lives.

This has really helped Nate and me a lot

 

[Kerala]

HappilyFallenAngel asked: What is a rock party?

A disco you might call it. Dance floor in a hall that is left from some industry, DJ playing booming rock music. Does that description create a picture?

 

[kdt26417]

I can picture that.