Opening mono relationships and pregnancy

Arc

Member
I just finished reading Opening Up (well, skimming, but I'll go back to it more thoroughly) and really enjoyed it. However, one topic that she seemed to skip over was the question of pregnancy. She covered STIs and safer sex very thoroughly. This is important, but the topic of pregnancy, to me, is it's on can of worms, and I'm wondering what others think.

Here's my thought: I have kids aged ~9 and am thoroughly done with having new children. I love being a dad but am ready to move on to other areas of life as my kids get more and more independent, and the idea of having a newborn baby in my life is... well, I would love it and take care of it, but would do all it takes to avoid that situation. In fact, I did do what it took - I got a vasectomy about 8 years ago. Since I thought I would be in a mono relationship forever, that pretty much solved the idea of pregnancy as far as I was concerned.

Fast forward to last year... wife is interested in opening the relationship. She is still capable of getting pregnant. My question is, what happens if she gets pregnant, even while using protection? I thoroughly believe that it would be her choice what to do at that point, but the ramifications on my life would be huge, and I am not 100% she would want to get an abortion; or she might want to, but not be capable of going through with it. While I definitely don't want to get an STI, having a new baby in our lives in some ways sounds worse! (please believe me, I love kids) And having an STI in a certain way is simpler - you either get it or you hopefully don't. Wife getting pregnant leads to not so cut and dry possibilities, and all kinds of complex dynamics.

How does one have a conversation about this while still respecting that I can't compel or enforce any guarantee from her? The only thing that I can think of that would take this off the table is if she got a tubal ligation before having sex with anyone else. Would that be reasonable? Surprisingly, Taormino doesn't address this in Opening Up (unless I missed something). Does anyone have any thoughts? Am I missing something obvious here?
 

icesong

Active member
Tubal ligations are pretty major surgery, as a stand-alone thing. (Wish I had gotten one during csection but at that point I thought I wanted 2 kids.) Something like an IUD has basically the same failure rate (especially in combination with barriers) and almost the same do-it-and-stop-thinking about it but is a LOT easier on one’s body.

That said, you have that conversation... exactly like you’re writing it here. If she hasn’t already thought about it I’d be amazed, and with a single 9 year old? I’d be surprised if she would be willing to go back to baby days too! I certainly wouldn’t.

(This is actually a pretty common set of circumstances - most of my male partners have been “snipped”, either post children or because they never wanted any. Knight isn’t which somewhat annoys me, but we can use condoms so whatever. Ironically Joan has had a tubal so as it works out, both Knight and I have unbarriered PiV with other partners but not each other. 🤷🏻‍♀️)
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
How does one have a conversation about this while still respecting that I can't compel or enforce any guarantee from her?

You just have it.

My spouse and I agreed a long time ago on "genetic monogamy." Even before his vasectomy. Our children are our children and that's it. No Half siblings with other people.

having a new baby in our lives in some ways sounds worse! (please believe me, I love kids)

I know what you mean. I also love kids. But active parenting and eldercare has been loooong. We both look forward to retirement and being done with active parenting and not dealing in so many elderly parents.

Neither of us would want to "start over" with a newborn and devote another 20 yrs ish into raising them. BTDT.

Fast forward to last year... wife is interested in opening the relationship. She is still capable of getting pregnant. My question is, what happens if she gets pregnant, even while using protection?

You could ask her what her plan is for that.

Could ask yourself if this would be a dealbreaker for you -- that she has an ooopsie pregnancy and decides to keep it. Does that mean you walk away and break up with her? Are heavily involved like a stepparent to this child? Or something in between? You look to the answers within you first, I think. Then see how compatible they are with her answers to the question.

Galagirl
 

Arc

Member
You just have it.
I guess I knew that! I tried having it a while back but it wasn't the right time. Will try again soon.
My spouse and I agreed a long time ago on "genetic monogamy." Even before his vasectomy. Our children are our children and that's it. No Half siblings with other people.
I appreciate your sharing this, since my question partly arose because I didn't see it discussed much, so was wondering how people work this out. That's why I was surprised that it wasn't covered in Opening Up. "Genetic monogamy" - now I know a new term. Did your agreement include what would happen if a pregnancy occurred?
I know what you mean. I also love kids. But active parenting and eldercare has been loooong. We both look forward to retirement and being done with active parenting and not dealing in so many elderly parents.

Neither of us would want to "start over" with a newborn and devote another 20 yrs ish into raising them. BTDT.
Good, glad you can empathize!
You could ask her what her plan is for that.
Her answer was, "I've never had a hard time not getting pregnant before." :rolleyes: Hopefully she can have a better response next time...
Could ask yourself if this would be a dealbreaker for you -- that she has an ooopsie pregnancy and decides to keep it. Does that mean you walk away and break up with her? Are heavily involved like a stepparent to this child? Or something in between? You look to the answers within you first, I think. Then see how compatible they are with her answers to the question.

Galagirl
Good point. That would be a really weird and difficult reason to end a marriage, but I feel pretty confident that I would leave the relationship, and feel okay about that.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Hi Arc,

Yes, it is your wife's right to decide what to do with her body, and whether to have a baby. But it's also your right to decide whether you are going to help raise a child that you didn't consent to. If she has another child, that child should be raised and supported in the home of whatever man got her pregnant. I would recommend that you hammer this out with her now, so that there aren't any surprises later. Be very firm with her, and say to her that you are done raising children, and that you hope she is too, even if you recognize that that part of the equation is her choice.

Raising a child is a huge burden and a huge commitment. Not to be undertaken lightly, and thus the topic should not be taken lightly. If she really wants to go on this open/poly quest, she needs to be willing to have a thorough conversation with you about pregnancy and birth control. These are my opinions, but I feel pretty strongly about them. No child deserves to be raised in an environment where they aren't wanted ... never even mind what you as a parent (and would-be stepparent) deserve. Don't let her blow/brush it off!

Fervently,
Kevin T.
 

Evie

Well-known member
You could:

Trust her to manage her birth control without going as far as tubal ligation. Oopsie babies aren't super common.

Stop worrying about it, but just make it clear that if she chooses to keep an oopsie baby with another guy, you're out. (I made it clear to Adam that I'd be out if he had a baby/dependent child in any way with another partner - honestly, I have three rules. And two are slightly negotiable. The babies one isn't, it's guaranteed divorce.)

Let it go. And by that, I mean don't latch on to this as a point of contention between the two of you. She didn't give you whatever answer you've scripted in your head that you want to hear. It may be because it's not that big of a deal to her because she's absolutely confident that she can manage her body. Let her (manage her own body). It's C21, after all.

All the best for your next conversation, just remember you can only know what you want to say. She will say what she says, and you could let that be enough.
 

dingedheart

Active member
I think this should be discussed along side all the other things that are considered risks. But with this one you might want to research your legal exposure in your specific state. i know lots of states if you’re married and deliver it’s assumed you’re the father and that’s another can of fish hooks to establish paternity and have that removed. And what’s the fastest you could get a divorce in front of an impeding baby if you had to ? Plus if you do this research and talk with a lawyer it will demonstrate to her how serious this is to you. I don’t think it could hurt.
 

Inaniel

Member
I end up feeling a little bad for you when I read your posts. I do not get the feeling you and your wife are thoroughly communicating..

As for your question. All forms of birth control have a probability of failure associated with them including your vasectomy. It is a risk in polyamory, but one that can be mitigated. Just like risking your life everyday by driving down the street, you have to choose what risks you are willing to tolerate in life.

As for my configuration; my wife is not interested in getting back on birth control and I am not willing to sterilize myself. As a result we do not have unprotected sex anymore, however, if we were to have another child it would be acceptable to everyone in the relationship so a less protective form of birth control such as barriers is acceptable for now. Barriers alone would not be acceptable to me otherwise.

My girlfriend has an IUD, as a result I have unprotected sex with my gf but not my wife. I never saw that coming…

Neither my wife nor girlfriend has ever placed a boundary on the relationship regarding me having children with another person. My wife has specifically said she would be okay if I had a child with my gf; however I would prefer not to. If my wife or gf had an oopsie baby with another man it would be a deal breaker for me. I have endless admiration for gf’s ability to be so caring for my child however this is one area where we differ and I would not be interested in doing the same…

Our configuration is closed at the moment so we have found a groove that is working for now. If we opened up to new partners I would be highly concerned about my wife not having an IUD and would encourage her to get one. My gf has already committed to getting her IUD renewed so I will probably reconsider vasectomy in 6 years and opt out of having new partners in the interim.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
Did your agreement include what would happen if a pregnancy occurred?

It's a deal breaker on both sides. There are to be no other children.

Galagirl
 

MeeraReed

Active member
Her answer was, "I've never had a hard time not getting pregnant before." :rolleyes: Hopefully she can have a better response next time...

Your wife is communicating with you just fine. You just don't like her answers. She doesn't need to give you a "better response." She's telling you that she can manage her own body and her own birth control the way she's been managing it with you all this time.

It's okay to have a limit that you will leave her if she gets pregnant by another man and wants to keep the baby. But it's weird to worry disproportionately about that when you weren't especially worried about you and your wife having an unplanned pregnancy while monogamous.

You sound like a kind and thoughtful person who is doing a lot of work to adjust to the possibility of non-monogamy. But I think you are being very condescending to your wife. She's telling you very clearly what she wants--to have more autonomy and to approach sex with the idea that maybe sex doesn't have to be such a big deal. It's okay if such a freedom-based form of non-monogamy doesn't work for you and is a deal-breaker--but it may mean that you and your wife are not compatible to stay together.

I disagree with all the advice you've been getting that your wife needs therapy. It sounds like she'd been doing a lot of work (reading and thinking) about what she wants and how she views relationships and sex. She came to the realization that she longs for non-monogamy based on freedom and autonomy.

The issue is that you don't share her views.

She was hoping you WOULD share her views. She thought you might want that same freedom. She was excited by discovering this about herself, and it sounds like her first thought was that you two would want to take an exciting journey together. In reality, though, you are upset (devastated, even) by the idea of freedom-based non-monogamy, although you are definitely willing to try a more rules-based non-monogamy.

Couples therapy might help the two of you communicate (and bring home the reality to her that you don't share her views). But I'm not sure why your wife would need individual therapy. (Maybe she could benefit from therapy for her childhood issues, but I doubt that it would change her views on non-monogamy). After all, if you shared your wife's views on relationships--if she had read you passages from The Ethical Slut and you had said, "Oh wow, I totally feel that way too!"--then your wife wouldn't need therapy, would she?

In my experience, therapists are very hostile toward freedom-based non-monogamy. I had a therapist who was visibly frustrated when she couldn't find a connection between my childhood/family and my views on relationships. (In truth, my healthy childhood and healthy relationship with my parents was probably what helped me identify what I wanted at a young age and AVOID getting into a monogamous marriage where I would have been unhappy).

I understand that what your wife is doing is unfair to you. You don't NEED to share her views. It's not fair that she decided retroactively that she's been confined by monogamy all this time and wants her freedom now. You didn't consent to accept her "sacrifice." You didn't agree to say, "Yes, I'll accept that after 20 years of monogamy, I'll give you your freedom to do as you please." I understand that that's not fair to you.

But, the reality is, your wife is discovering that she has very different views on relationships than you do. And I think you aren't accepting the reality of that.

It sounds like you've been a really good partner and husband. You sound like a very open-minded and good-hearted person. You are clearly doing a lot of work to understand non-monogamy.

But you and your wife may simply not be compatible any more. I think your focus on jealousy over her flirty-text friend and worries about potential unplanned pregnancies are distracting you from the reality that your wife is trying to tell you that she views her body, sex, and relationships very differently from the way you do.

In another thread, you mentioned your wife said she feels as strongly about her views as a trans person might feel about their gender identity. Leaving aside whether that's a fair comparison, what she means is that her beliefs are deeply ingrained and unchangeable, AND they have NOTHING to do with you, or your love for her.

Imagine if she really were trans, and she'd struggled with it all these years. It wouldn't have anything to do with you, but it WOULD affect you. You might not want to stay someone who transitioned to a gender that you aren't attracted to--you would be incompatible. And it wouldn't be anyone's fault.

By the way, I'm sure you are a very date-able person yourself, and you will probably be able to find a new partner if you and your wife separate. Someone who shares your views on sex and relationships. (Your views are definitely more common than your wife's).
 

Arc

Member
Wow. Okay, I'm going to try hard to take in what you are saying and consider it, even though I don't agree with a lot of things on first read, and feel like you are absolving her of any responsibility in our relationship. Let's see...
Your wife is communicating with you just fine. You just don't like her answers. She doesn't need to give you a "better response." She's telling you that she can manage her own body and her own birth control the way she's been managing it with you all this time.
If that's what "just fine" communication looks like in freedom-based non-monogamy, between partners raising children together, thanks for letting me know - I don't want to be in a relationship like that. I want a partner who cares about my concerns and is willing to discuss them. She has the luxury of not having to worry about me causing a pregnancy due to my vasectomy, but if that were a possibility, I think she would have a right to discuss in greater detail if I might bring a baby into her life.

How would it sound if I asked about STI protection, and she said, "I've never had a problem not getting an STI before." Should I just drop it at that and not ask for further details? Or is pregnancy fundamentally different because it doesn't affect my body, even though it would affect my life hugely?
It's okay to have a limit that you will leave her if she gets pregnant by another man and wants to keep the baby. But it's weird to worry disproportionately about that when you weren't especially worried about you and your wife having an unplanned pregnancy while monogamous.
I'm confused - why do you think I'm worried disproportionately? Disproportionate to what? I just asked a question to get people's input. And pregnancy is a bigger deal than a lot of things people post on here about. I don't get what's weird.

Also, when we were monogamous, I underwent a surgery to address this concern, based on our joint decision not to have any more kids. Once I did that, no I wasn't worried because I trusted the vasectomy.
You sound like a kind and thoughtful person who is doing a lot of work to adjust to the possibility of non-monogamy.
Thank you.
But I think you are being very condescending to your wife. She's telling you very clearly what she wants--to have more autonomy and to approach sex with the idea that maybe sex doesn't have to be such a big deal. It's okay if such a freedom-based form of non-monogamy doesn't work for you and is a deal-breaker--but it may mean that you and your wife are not compatible to stay together.
I think you are making a lot of assumptions here. She has every right to say, "I think we need to separate because we are incompatible." She has said explicitly that she does not want to do this. She in fact never raised the idea at all as an option, until I did, after feedback from people on this forum. When I did, she explicitly said she had never considered this as an option and would rather remain monogamous.
I disagree with all the advice you've been getting that your wife needs therapy. It sounds like she'd been doing a lot of work (reading and thinking) about what she wants and how she views relationships and sex. She came to the realization that she longs for non-monogamy based on freedom and autonomy.
At the very least, maybe a poly-friendly therapist would convince her to ask for a separation. As far as what she knows she wants - she wants to be free and also keep the good parts, namely, family stability and for our relationship to remain the same.
Couples therapy might help the two of you communicate (and bring home the reality to her that you don't share her views). But I'm not sure why your wife would need individual therapy. (Maybe she could benefit from therapy for her childhood issues, but I doubt that it would change her views on non-monogamy).
I never said she should change her views on non-monogamy or that therapy would do that. In fact, I've consistently suggested she find a poly-friendly therapist.
After all, if you shared your wife's views on relationships--if she had read you passages from The Ethical Slut and you had said, "Oh wow, I totally feel that way too!"--then your wife wouldn't need therapy, would she?
It depends if things went smoothly when we actually started practicing poly. So far, things are not going smoothly and that's not only because of my own issues. You don't have to believe me, but she actually agrees on this point FWIW.
But, the reality is, your wife is discovering that she has very different views on relationships than you do. And I think you aren't accepting the reality of that.
I am here on the forum, trying to learn, ask questions, and accept this reality. She's still hoping it will all just work out, nothing fundamental will change, and we'll all be happy.
But you and your wife may simply not be compatible any more. I think your focus on jealousy over her flirty-text friend and worries about potential unplanned pregnancies are distracting you from the reality that your wife is trying to tell you that she views her body, sex, and relationships very differently from the way you do.
She can decide to end the marriage any time she wants if she feels our views/needs are incompatible. Then she will have to take responsibility for the impact on me and our kids. I don't think she wants to do that. So am I supposed to do that for her? What exactly are you saying that I should do differently?
Imagine if she really were trans, and she'd struggled with it all these years. It wouldn't have anything to do with you, but it WOULD affect you. You might not want to stay someone who transitioned to a gender that you aren't attracted to--you would be incompatible. And it wouldn't be anyone's fault.
I am really trying not to focus on fault here... I'm just trying to figure out how to deal with this situation.

If she were trans, I would want her to say something like: "I am trans and I am going to transition. This is not negotiable. I understand if that won't work for you; if that's the case, we will have to separate. Or, if you can be okay with it, I'd love to stay together."
By the way, I'm sure you are a very date-able person yourself, and you will probably be able to find a new partner if you and your wife separate. Someone who shares your views on sex and relationships. (Your views are definitely more common than your wife's).
Thanks, I'm not sure how you are so sure! But I like to think so, too.
 

Arc

Member
You could:

Trust her to manage her birth control without going as far as tubal ligation. Oopsie babies aren't super common.
For the record, I wasn't ever going to impose tubal ligation! I did want to ensure we were on the same page; if she said, "I'm using the pull out method," (ignoring STIs for a sec). Genuine question - Is this a well-accepted part of poly, not asking for details about birth control from the female partner? That's the impression I'm getting from some.
Stop worrying about it, but just make it clear that if she chooses to keep an oopsie baby with another guy, you're out. (I made it clear to Adam that I'd be out if he had a baby/dependent child in any way with another partner - honestly, I have three rules. And two are slightly negotiable. The babies one isn't, it's guaranteed divorce.)
Yes, that's what I'm going to do based on the input from you, GalaGirl, and Kevin (and maybe others). You mentioned 3 rules, so I can't help asking... what are the other two??
Let it go. And by that, I mean don't latch on to this as a point of contention between the two of you.
It's not a big point of contention. I just wanted some input from others about how to talk about it. Her initial response gave me the sense that it was none of my business. This didn't sit well with me, hence seeking outside perspectives.
She didn't give you whatever answer you've scripted in your head that you want to hear. It may be because it's not that big of a deal to her because she's absolutely confident that she can manage her body. Let her (manage her own body). It's C21, after all.
I honestly hadn't scripted an answer - not sure why you think that. I asked her because it was a concern of mine. I thought married couples could talk about this topic without it going into "man controlling woman's body" territory, but I'm getting the impression that I am wrong. I guess perhaps that's another change I need to get used to. [Edit: need to get used to if we're going to stay together]
 

icesong

Active member
I thought married couples could talk about this topic without it going into "man controlling woman's body" territory, but I'm getting the impression that I am wrong.
One can totally TALK about everything, and be open to influence from one's partners. I think the difference is whether or not one feels that the final *decision* is shared and not one person's, and THAT is on some levels a very philosophical discussion getting into "angels on the head of a pin" territory. (Which totally never ever happens here. Really. Also I have some real estate in Florida... ;))


Genuine question - Is this a well-accepted part of poly, not asking for details about birth control from the female partner? That's the impression I'm getting from some.
Poly... is very very very much not a monolith. And different people have VERY different ideals and speak from those ideals, without necessarily clarifying what they are. I don't know if you might have run across this, but it's an interesting look at one way to break those ideas down: https://medium.com/@PolyamorySchool/the-relationship-autonomy-index-2d6f9a3f8d52. I don't, 100%, agree with the authors' categories, but it's a useful thought experiment. For instance, my relationships function at somewhere in the autonomy index 4+ range, while it sounds like you'd be (if you can be happy as poly which is a different question) happier at somewhere in the 2ish range. I suspect @MeeraReed is more towards the 4 range for instance, though that's only a guess from reading her writings on this site, while, say, @kdt26417 might be closer to a 2? (the autonomy article doesn't really account well for co-primary relationships, honestly, but is still useful).
 

Magdlyn

Well-known member
Arc, so you know, I don't agree with Meera's views very much at all. Your wife's potential pregnancy with another future partner is very much your business. And yes, condoms for the sake of STI prevention is generally a number 1 rule in poly groups. Usually people only abandon condoms after a good period of time has passed, labs have been done, the status of any other partners is determined, trust has been established. Of course, it's easier if a woman, say, is dating a single mono guy. If she can establish trust, she knows he isn't fucking anyone else and isn't going to pick up a STI.

I feel for you. Having read most or all of your other posts, I can see your wife is being very naive, very "hand wavey." She's blowing off pretty much all of your concerns and ignoring your emotions. She says poly won't change your relationship. WTF. She's not even having sex with anyone else yet and already your relationship has changed, greatly!

I'd say it's very much your business as her husband and the father of her children on whether she will be as sure as possible not to get pregnant when she starts having sex with others. And if she does get pregnant, she needs to know that if she refuses to abort, you will leave her. Period.

If she has a kid by another man, and you don't want to raise it, she'd need to move herself in with him (if he sticks around and wants to be a parent), or head out on her own. That would affect you, and affect the custody arrangements of your existing children! She couldn't have a kid by another guy and continue to live with you. Babies need to be with their mothers, especially when they are breastfeeding. They are an attached dyad.

And it would be a legal issue if she got pregnant by another man while married to you. As stated above, you might be considered the legal father, at least until DNA testing was done.

So... yeah. It's your business. If she's just blowing off your concerns (around this as well as other issues) it is a problem.

BTW, if your wife is over 40, hormonal birth control is not recommended. Blood clots and cancers are associated with extra estrogen, especially in older women. If she looks into IUDs, a non-hormonal one would be best, although less fool-proof for pregnancy prevention.
 

Evie

Well-known member
For the record, I wasn't ever going to impose tubal ligation! I did want to ensure we were on the same page; if she said, "I'm using the pull out method," (ignoring STIs for a sec). Genuine question - Is this a well-accepted part of poly, not asking for details about birth control from the female partner? That's the impression I'm getting from some.
Asking is fine, good, encouraged - especially if you don't want an oopsie baby yourself. Your post just seemed like you weren't satisfied with the answer even though it seems pretty clear that your wife has no intention of having a baby, or has perhaps already made up her mind that she'd terminate.
Yes, that's what I'm going to do based on the input from you, GalaGirl, and Kevin (and maybe others). You mentioned 3 rules, so I can't help asking... what are the other two??
1. Change the sheets if you've shared the bed with someone else. (This has been ignored at least once because the sharing was only for sleeping and by then I knew my meta well enough that I wasn't concerned about smelling a stranger in my bed.

2. Don't use my mug to make her coffee.

It's not a big point of contention. I just wanted some input from others about how to talk about it. Her initial response gave me the sense that it was none of my business. This didn't sit well with me, hence seeking outside perspectives.

I honestly hadn't scripted an answer - not sure why you think that. I asked her because it was a concern of mine. I thought married couples could talk about this topic without it going into "man controlling woman's body" territory, but I'm getting the impression that I am wrong. I guess perhaps that's another change I need to get used to. [Edit: need to get used to if we're going to stay together]
Your post sounded a little more fixated on the topic than a simple, "what's your birth control plan?" which is why you're getting the responses you're getting. The notion of a scripted answer comes from your statement that, "hopefully she can have a better response next time <eyeroll>." It does sound like she's got it under control.
 

Arc

Member
Asking is fine, good, encouraged - especially if you don't want an oopsie baby yourself. Your post just seemed like you weren't satisfied with the answer even though it seems pretty clear that your wife has no intention of having a baby, or has perhaps already made up her mind that she'd terminate.
Okay, maybe that was clear to you, or to her, but it wasn't clear to me. Or at least, I wanted it to be explicit.
1. Change the sheets if you've shared the bed with someone else. (This has been ignored at least once because the sharing was only for sleeping and by then I knew my meta well enough that I wasn't concerned about smelling a stranger in my bed.

2. Don't use my mug to make her coffee.
Good, I'm writing these down for future use. Thanks!
Your post sounded a little more fixated on the topic than a simple, "what's your birth control plan?" which is why you're getting the responses you're getting.
Well, I didn't mean to imply a fixation. I do feel like it was important topic to address (as do others here on this thread), but I didn't know how to talk about in a poly setting. I'm new to all this.
The notion of a scripted answer comes from your statement that, "hopefully she can have a better response next time <eyeroll>." It does sound like she's got it under control.
Now I see where you're coming from, thanks. I don't think I had a scripted answer at the time I asked, I was really like, "Um... what would happen?" partly because I know she has voiced (long ago) that she didn't know if she could actually have an abortion. In retrospect I can definitely describe what kind of answer would have reassured me and make me more likely to move forwards with poly explorations, so I guess you can call that a scripted answer.

My dissatisfaction/eye roll emoji was because she didn't actually answer the question which was "What happens if you do get pregnant?", and she didn't seem to take my concern seriously or acknowledge that I had a reasonable concern about this.

Anyway, thanks for your follow up and clarification.
 

MeeraReed

Active member
Sorry, Arc, I missed that you said you'd had a vasectomy. That does make her vague answer much stranger!
 
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