The journey to myself

Tinwen

Active member
P.S. I hope that computer code is making sense by now.
No way :D I'll find a way to drop that task sooner of later. Thanks for asking.
I'll drop it 'easily'. I'm quitting, or at least taking a good break from my phd.

I just spent a month ill in bed and I still feel tired when I think of work. So today I wrote an email to my supervisor saying I'm going to finish my state examination in February and then I'm gone, as is my passion for science. I think I'm totally burned out.

The idea behind still taking the exam was that I'll be able to get back and finish it after I give my head and body a good rest - although now I'm thinking about not even finishing this last exam and just calling it quits for good, whatever may happen, happens.
I'll sleep on that.
 

Evie

Well-known member
As someone who quit a PhD, I get it.
I hope you feel better soon, academic burnout is painful but there will be other interesting work paths ahead.
 

Tinwen

Active member
I'm wavering in my decision to quit, so I'm immersed into decision making. We'll see. It's stressful, but I'm having insights.

Here's a first shot at my life purpose:
"Finding (and creating) connections to open up new possibilities for people and the world at large (to grow)"
It's bold and broad and somehow it contains both science and relationships. That's what I love about it. Good candidate for a guiding principle.

So much for today's great introspective achievement. I'll sleep on it ;)
 

Tinwen

Active member
Trying to gather the courage to go tell my boss that ok, I'll finish the phd, but I need a LOT of free time, like 3-4 months of free time (probably not in one go, but at least a month or six weeks after my exams in February, and another break in summer). I mean, if that won't solve my long-term feeling of tiredness, than I don't know what will - a lifestyle or career change probably, but to even start making those, I have to get some rest first.
 
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Kajibabu

New member
I'm wavering in my decision to quit, so I'm immersed into decision making. We'll see. It's stressful, but I'm having insights.

Here's a first shot at my life purpose:
"Finding (and creating) connections to open up new possibilities for people and the world at large (to grow)"
It's bold and broad and somehow it contains both science and relationships. That's what I love about it. Good candidate for a guiding principle.

So much for today's great introspective achievement. I'll sleep on it ;)

Hi TinWen,
I don't know exactly how to address your issue here. I always like to read your blogs and had sent messages a couple of times too...

I am also one of the quitter and restarter of PHD.... in different continents... Unfornunately I am not so lucky to have the relationship in real life as you have beyond my heart and mind.

I think I can understand your situation.

B.
 

Kajibabu

New member
This is an incredible documentary series.
http://oshorajneesh.com/wild-wild-country-watch-free-online/

I deals with the 80's Osho commune in Oregon, an attempt of setting up a whole CITY for Osho and his followers, and how some of the community leaders went off the path into organized crime.
Wanna see a clash of cultures and collective ego's? How about an adorable lady who attempted murder speaking honestly of her crime? The most foolish attempt to misuse the voting system?
Moral: If you're building a 'spiritual' community, don't leave your followers unsupervised ;)

It seems the documentary does a good job in showing both sides (although none of osho's teaching is presented). Highly recommended.

Hi TinWen, I also had read and watched. but this one is very very detail. Here is more politics than the spirituality. So, it is not good to judge Osho with such issue. Although I don't follow his line, but I always admire him as an extraordinary master of his time who challenged all organized cultural, social and religious systems.
 

Tinwen

Active member
I think I can understand your situation.
Thanks for support.

Hi TinWen, I also had read and watched. but this one is very very detail. Here is more politics than the spirituality. So, it is not good to judge Osho with such issue. Although I don't follow his line, but I always admire him as an extraordinary master of his time who challenged all organized cultural, social and religious systems.

My take is, even great leaders make mistakes ;) I mean, maybe it was all on purpose, who knows, but it's quite likely he made some.
 
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Tinwen

Active member
I did not quit.
I'm having state examination in mid-February. I told my boss I will need a month of free time after it and another one in summer. I'm just hoping to get out of this state of tiredness.

Also, something really, really weird happened at work.

I had a colleague whom I was supposed to work with on that damn computer code. When he came to our department last year (replacing another, who left for a postdoc abroad), I felt relieved, because I knew that I didn't have the skills to do this alone, and now he was supposed to take over those tasks. Great. Indeed, he quickly gained knowledge, also traveling to speak to the creator of the code.

Well, this guy decided to pick up a fight with my boss this week, seemingly wanting to negotiate more money and/or different work (but it's also quite possible, that he just wanted to leave). In that fight, he somehow made me "the problem", complaining about stuff that was nonexistent or totally blown out of proportion. Thankfully, my boss decided that he's being totally inappropriate, and told him to leave.

Apparently, he had also been triangulating for quite some time now, complaining about me to my boss, even saying that other people had a problem with me too. So today there was that kind of uncomfortable talk, where my boss asked other people (with me present) if they had a problem with me or not. (No, at least not in the way suggested.)

The consensus is, my colleague was being manipulative and making an imaginary conflict with me his excuse. Still feels shitty and confusing. I don't understand his motivation. I don't understand how much I really contributed to this situation. Ugh.
 

Tinwen

Active member
Merry Christmas, everyone.
 

Tinwen

Active member
So, ehm.
My parents have such a 'moral' problem with me dating Idealist (and his attitude towards the baby) that they don't want to let him into their house &&& added some really nasty shouted comments of how I'm utterly self-centered not considering anyone else at all and inflicting harm on Meta (not to mention destroying my own life) by not quitting the relationship.

Otherwise, they are really kind cultivated hard-working people.

Doesn't look like I'm going to live in the (huge!) house of my parents anytime soon.
 

Tinwen

Active member
I'm finally restarting therapy. It took a decision to pay for it, but I'm placing my hopes there now to help me get through the relationship turbulences with idealist having a child.

I also got a glimpse of how self-inquiry is supposed to work before Christmas, and it's fascinating, so you all get a link on how to do self-inquiry ;)

To conclude this positive post, I feel like although there's a shitload of problems right now, I really got some rest between the holydays.
 
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Tinwen

Active member
A LOT happened in the past two months, a lot is going to happen in the upcoming two, and quite a lot happened just today.

To recap
- in November I was ill, during which time I kinda broke down, first processed Idealist having a child and created quite a bit a distance, and after that I nearly decided to quit my phd
- I reconciled and negotiated some extra free time for next year (thankfully!)
- in December I got a notice that I have to move
- a colleague proved himself quite manipulative triangulating my boss against me; before Christmas, he picked up a fight and left
- during Christmas, my parents first offered to make space for me to move home, just to decide a few days later they don't wanna see Idealist in their house ever, and to judge me as immoral, selfish, and having no self-respect and whatever other accusations I had to hear in that fight (thanks mom)
- that means I'm processing the rejection, and further separation from the family ...
- ... as well as searching for a place to live...
- ... as well as trying to decide what part Idealist should play in my living situation, if any. (Such as helping out financially.)
- for all the reasons above, I restarted therapy, and
- an February I've got big exam on the 13th, and I'm leaving for two week's conference and vacation in Israel on the 15th. When I come back, I'm moving.

How great ;)
I'm optimistic that I can handle it (somehow, if not greatly) and grow, but I'm feeling really pushed to the edge and totally not stable. I have to take real care.

Today I had my second therapy session, and we went straight into the issues with my parents, so that was rather difficult. Then I tried to study (though I was quite distracted). And in the evening I went to see a possible room to live, in a shared house. It could be nice, because I know the people somewhat; but it's still shared, and I'm a little afraid of that. Meanwhile Idealist is questioning everything and offering some financial help to find a flat together, which is nice, but I have no idea if I actually want it. So that's all... complicated.
 

Tinwen

Active member
I can't get out of feeling jittery today. Can't really work. Oh well.
 

Tinwen

Active member
I'm having a decision to make (like, now, before the opportunities are gone)
1) Cohabiting with people I know somewhat - probably peaceful but not a lot of space in the room. It's good I know they are friendly, it's not good some of them don't know about poly yet (nor bdsm), and it's rather far away from Idealist's place, so... a social challenge, and more independence from the relationship, way less comfort.
2) Taking a condo just half a block away from Idealist's place, with him helping me out financially. The ideal "into" the relationship move, not sure I want to do that at this point. On the other hand, I would be there up close when the baby is born, and being able to help out could be handy - I do have some tender feelings there.
3) None of these, take a few more weeks of time, search for something else.
No idea what's best. If I could get a prophetic dream once a year, this would be the ideal night :D

Btw. in another thread I asked people to wait with their comments on my poly situation / Idealist having a baby. I'm open to that again now.
 
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Tinwen

Active member
From http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=414623
I am trying to read your blog, but I'm still having a hard time understanding why you mistrust this relationship so much. You've indicated you have anxiety. You've indicated that Meta is somewhat unaccepting of Idealist's poly desires, I think? And so she makes, or has made, things difficult for you sometimes? Is there anything else I'm missing?
Thanks for the question, Magdlyn.
You are right to point out anxiety, I'm sure some of the distrust is distrust in myself, however, there are big structural problems in the relationship.

For one, Idealist is a man with a huge bandwidth of emotion and behaviour, ranging from great and sensitive to very disagreeable and downright disrespectful. People tend to love him or hate him, and the feedback I get from my friends is also mixed - the most common critique being that he's stepping over people's boundaries. Which he is, and he doesn't see it as such, which is a real problem. It means at times I have to put in considerable effort and things have to really escalate into conflict and tears before he understands/believes a limit of mine. Saying is just not enough. This is demanding, and one big reason to distrust.

The second reason is the poly situation. I guess my biggest sticking point is "I would like to live with him, but not her" ... and they live together. And he isn't fond of back and forth between homes. And I'm thinking about children too (although I don't feel quite up to it yet), and I'm worried that he can't be there as a father if he has another home. And yes, there is competition between me and Meta, because we do want the same stuff (like a man who's present at night and as a father). In short, I'm not very fond of the poly arrangement.

Third, I have a lot of insecurity about my life in general. I don't know if I'll continue my physics career, but if I do, that probably means going abroad for some time. Which is at conflict with having children, and also at conflict with the relationship, since he's not coming along. Overall, I have no idea how really I want to live my life, which is a source of insecurity.
I'm also unsure if I'm still me next to him, or if I'm adjusting too much.

Most significantly, there's a huge opportunity cost involved with this relationship.
If he was monogamous (if I dated someone monogamous), for sure we would be living together now (and he would be paying half of the costs, not just contributing).
It would be us thinking about having a child.
He might be more open to changing his ways of life to accommodate my career, like moving to some other country for a year or two (as physics graduates usually have to do).
And perhaps I'd have a better relationship with my family of origin. And possibly, having a simpler life (relationship) would even help my mental health.

I love this man, but is it really worth it?

...............................................................................................................

My most real answer to this question is, it doesn't matter, because I can't leave. I would be destroyed if I did. I seriously doubt I could function. I've contemplated breaking up for every one and all the above-mentioned reasons, and I've never been able to.

There's a part of me that wants him no matter what (I think she's about 13). I know this is based on a need, not adult love. She doesn't care about career and kids and compatible life goals and even poly.

I also know he has a part like that too. We're two lost kids who have found each other.

It's beauty in hell. Have you, dear readers of my blog, ever felt that way?

...............................................................................................................

Three droplets of blood,
shed on a cold, windy day.
Your warm hug, my love.
 
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Magdlyn

Well-known member
Thank you for explaining the factors involved in your choices, and feelings about your current situation! That helped me understand a lot.
 

Tinwen

Active member
Thank you for explaining the factors involved in your choices, and feelings about your current situation! That helped me understand a lot.
Gentle comments on where to even start untangling this welcome, but I'm afraid the emotional stuff is beyond the scope of the forum.
I intend to go into the "I can't leave feeling" with my therapist, with no expectation of resolving it in one session.
 

Magdlyn

Well-known member
From http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=414623

Thanks for the question, Magdlyn.
You are right to point out anxiety, I'm sure some of the distrust is distrust in myself, however, there are big structural problems in the relationship.

For one, Idealist is a man with a huge bandwidth of emotion and behaviour, ranging from great and sensitive to very disagreeable and downright disrespectful. People tend to love him or hate him, and the feedback I get from my friends is also mixed - the most common critique being that he's stepping over people's boundaries. Which he is, and he doesn't see it as such, which is a real problem. It means at times I have to put in considerable effort and things have to really escalate into conflict and tears before he understands/believes a limit of mine. Saying is just not enough. This is demanding, and one big reason to distrust.

I don't think Idealist is unique in this, how we need to bash men over the heads to get them to understand our boundaries. I've had to do this with my ex h, and I've just been speaking to a woman today who also has this problem with her bf! You need to repeat the same request over and over, and say it and say it, and yell it, and cry and make a big fucking deal, sometimes for years, before they believe you, that no, you really mean it, it's not minor, it's not negotiable!

In my case, one smallish thing stands out. My ex h used to do this thing: I'd be at the sink washing dishes, zoning out, and he'd sneak up behind me and wham! dig his fingers into my ribs, shocking me and tickling me. He thought it was such fun! I HATED IT! So fucking annoying. Just because I shrieked and laughed did NOT mean I found it fun! He thought of it as affectionate teasing. I guess my hourglass figure just looked too good from behind for him to resist? I know this went on for 20 years because I can remember him doing it at our second house which we bought in 1995. And we met in 1974. But finally finally somehow in our final years together, I got him to stop doing it.

So, men. are stupid. Not just Idealist. One reason I so love living with a woman. (But I am bi, dunno if you are lol) Women can take a hint. We pick up on subtle clues... Anyway, no advice, just commiseration. Men can't take a hint, and even straight talk and even yelling can take years to get a message through their thick skulls. It's extremely frustrating.

The second reason is the poly situation. I guess my biggest sticking point is: "I would like to live with him, but not her" ... and they live together. And he isn't fond of back and forth between homes. And I'm thinking about children too (although I don't feel quite up to it yet), and I'm worried that he can't be there as a father if he has another home. And yes, there is competition between me and Meta, because we do want the same stuff (like a man who's present at night and as a father). In short, I'm not very fond of the poly arrangement.

Yes, if you want a husband every night all night, poly isn't the solution. There is a degree of sharing and compromise necessary. Although I was mono with my husband, and he'd get home... eventually. But his job required very late nights at crunch times, and sometimes he'd get so busy he'd just sleep at the office on a couch. And that was NOT fun at bedtime, once we had 3 kids! It would take me an hour and a half or more to get the kids to bed, when they were 5, 3 and a newborn, and all needed different kinds of care, baths, books, potty, diapers, nursing, singing, rocking... I just couldn't be in 3 places at once. And then he'd be upset if I was exhausted when he got home and too tired for late night TV, or sex?

I dunno if Idealist and Meta are planning on more than one kid? She's 44? Maybe just one kid is enough. So bedtime won't be that complicated. One parent can handle one kid OK. Of course the first year is a lot of work even with one kid, but it shouldn't be that horrible. Maybe a couple nights a week he can still spend the night with you. Not in the first 6 weeks (if the baby is term and healthy), but after that, once Baby is "settled" a bit.

Third, I have a lot of insecurity about my life in general. I don't know if I'll continue my physics career, but if I do, that probably means going abroad for some time. Which is at conflict with having children, and also at conflict with the relationship, since he's not coming along. Overall, I have no idea how really I want to live my life, which is a source of insecurity.

I'm also unsure if I'm still me next to him, or if I'm adjusting too much.

We all spend our 20s and 30s figuring out how to live our lives, and it doesn't really end in our 30s. I did twist myself to be with my ex h though, and make myself smaller to try to help his insecurities. It's a regret in some ways, but life is never perfect, on the other hand.

Most significantly, there's a huge opportunity cost involved with this relationship.

If he was monogamous (if I dated someone monogamous), for sure we would be living together now (and he would be paying half of the costs, not just contributing).

Well, that's wishful thinking. There is no "for sure" about you having found a mono and live-in partner who could afford a 50-50 financial split, by now, if you weren't with Idealist.

It would be us thinking about having a child.

He might be more open to changing his ways of life to accommodate my career, like moving to some other country for a year or two (as physics graduates usually have to do).

You "might" have met a man who wanted a kid, who would be willing and able to move, there's no definite.

You could still be dating others while being partnered with Idealist? Or not. Could be Open on your side and his side both? Not just his side?

And perhaps I'd have a better relationship with my family of origin. And possibly, having a simpler life (relationship) would even help my mental health.

I love this man, but is it really worth it?

My most real answer to this question is, it doesn't matter, because I can't leave. I would be destroyed if I did. I seriously doubt I could function. I've contemplated breaking up for every one and all the above-mentioned reasons, and I've never been able to.

There's a part of me that wants him no matter what (I think she's about 13). I know this is based on a need, not adult love. She doesn't care about career and kids and compatible life goals and even poly.

I also know he has a part like that too. We're two lost kids who have found each other.

It's beauty in hell. Have you, dear readers of my blog, ever felt that way?

I'd have to say all life is parts heaven and parts hell. My partner Pixi is heavenly (she's not perfect, but pretty great, and I'm not perfect either!) and sometimes I taste heaven with men, but often I feel dissed and violated by them (just recently it's been extremely difficult, with 3 guys I've dated or attempted to date, in fact). And my life with my ex h was sometimes great and sometimes sucked. I think it's unrealistic to expect constant bliss, ever.

I've lived a pretty long life at this point. Being with my husband in a mono arrangement wasn't being 100% true to myself, but it was a phase I needed, I guess? There's always time for change, to move on to better partners...

I've done a lot of therapy to learn to be true to myself, to take chances and risks for a better life. I'm sure I'd still be stuck with that man if I hadn't done some hard work with my last therapist, and started exploring more healthy options.
 

Tinwen

Active member
Thank you.
Well, that's wishful thinking. There is no "for sure" about you having found a mono and live-in partner who could afford a 50-50 financial split, by now, if you weren't with Idealist.

You "might" have met a man who wanted a kid, who would be willing and able to move, there's no definite.
It's true there's no guarantee. Just statistics. It's likely I would have found a mono partner who wants to live together and have a kid in the last 5 years if that was what I'm looking for.
But maybe what I was looking for was not that, rather a loving, understanding, intelligent, passionate, sensitive human soul, which leaves me right where I am O:) Ok, I agree the "what if" line of thinking is moot.
You could still be dating others while being partnered with Idealist? Or not. Could be Open on your side and his side both? Not just his side?
I can sometimes enjoy playing with others. Trouble is, I feel quite polysaturated at one. I don't have the bandwidth, either time and energy-wise, nor emotionally, to have two romantic relationships of this intensity. I could kinda love another person (I see where poly comes from), but I still seem to be mostly monogamous in my focus.
 

Tinwen

Active member
- in February I've got big exam on the 13th, and I'm leaving for two week's conference and vacation in Israel on the 15th. When I come back, I'm moving.

I'm optimistic that I can handle it (somehow, if not greatly) and grow, but I'm feeling really pushed to the edge and totally not stable. I have to take real care.
Both the feelings of being drained and optimistic (perhaps overly optimistic) persist.

Studying is absolutely NOT going well (though it still could be worse: before my Master's exam, I got stuck anxiously doing nothing for weeks on end). I'm doing my best and I hope I'll pass, but I can't possibly read all of it, so I'm leaving out a bigger third of the list, so there will absolutely be a question, where I'll just have no idea. I'm still hoping for a 2/3 questions success.

There's been a lot of anxiety in the past two weeks - which is unavoidable for me before the exam. It doesn't matter whether I work or not, I worry, I'm tense and sleep badly. I'm prone to cry. I KNOW this is going to be an embarrassment. I literally feel my body being sucked dry of resources.

At the same time, weirdly, I'm watching it somewhat from a distance and a place of hope. There's no despair, as it used to be. It's like my body and parts of my psyche are suffering, but another part my soul really isn't. There's hope and there's trust.

A big part of the positive is, that I know this isn't going on forever. I've negotiated the vacation after my exam. I am searching for a new career path. It's the last damn exam.

Also, I did something a little silly: I applied for an internship in science journalism in the country's most prestigious TV. I'm not sure if I'd actually want to do that job (possibly???), but I was compelled to try. They already invited me for an interview, which, well, adds pressure, since they ask me to prepare some sample work O:) But if I don't do it, well, I've just missed a chance for an adventure.

So I feel shitty and sometimes I just break down and cry, but then I get up to exercise, organize a social event, help a friend. Something I've never been able to do before in the face of difficult emotion.
I guess this is called being strong and brave.
 
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