What are married poly women looking for?

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Why might married poly MEN not be available (or not be perceived as available) for the above things, but married poly WOMEN are available for such? Or the people (men?) seeking to date married poly women are NOT looking for the above, yet those (women?) seeking to date married poly men ARE looking for the above?

Yes! Exactly!

I think the answer really swings towards the fact that men don't expect that from attached partners. If the relationship involves that then great! Bonus! But they automatically switch off that expectation when they know their dating partner is attached. This is what I've got from speaking to men who date poly women.

These men furthered this to parents of young children. They have similar expectations around things like the ability to take vacations alone. They don't think it will be an option. This is why they might choose not to date women in this demographic. And if they do, the smart ones who successfully have relationships with parents go in not expecting this to be one of the features of the relationship.

This means they reduce the amount of disappointment they experience overall.

But it also means they seek people they can share those things with and prioritize those relationships. They think this is kind of an obvious choice to make and are surprised at the resentment it can muster from their attached partner. They assume their partner already has that and so would understand why they want the same.

It's almost like there is an element of them thinking it's a shared opinion that this relationship doesn't qualify for quite the same commitment or sacrifice as a "primary" relationship so you can ethically walk away with less consideration overall.

In my experience, this matches the "flaky" "secondary" relationships that attached women experience. The midterm boyfriends that just change their minds.

why does it seem that married poly men are not often dating other married poly women?

I think they would but there are mismatched expectations/desires as I mentioned above. The married poly women generally aren't interested in married poly men because they assume there will be limitations that are intolerable to them.

Then the single poly women are often looking for a "primary" which ironically entails many of the same things those poly married women want just with the addition of marriage and kids.

So for a married poly guy, it is pretty bleak and most importantly, they're fishing in a totally different pond.

because I think we are talking about the gender dynamics in hetero poly relationships, mostly.

Yes.

 

[Evie]

With the number of "married 20 years and now opening our marriage so that (she/I) can explore (her/my) bisexuality" posts we get around here, I'm wondering why married women aren't dating other married women.

 

[MeeraReed]

With the number of "married 20 years and now opening our marriage so that (she/I) can explore (her/my) bisexuality" posts we get around here, I'm wondering why married women aren't dating other married women.

The women I have known in that situation (married to men, newly exploring their bisexuality, no previous experience dating women) were seeking women who were experienced in dating women. Or were at least drawn to such women, rather than to newly-bi women in their same situation.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

The women I have known in that situation (married to men, newly exploring their bisexuality, no previous experience dating women) were seeking women who were experienced in dating women. Or were at least drawn to such women, rather than to newly-bi women in their same situation.

Yes and as one of the AFABs they seek, it can be objectifying for a whole set of other reasons. They often have a very specific idea about what a relationship with a "dominant queer woman" will look like and it's oriented around the male gaze and heteronormativity.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

With the number of "married 20 years and now opening our marriage so that (she/I) can explore (her/my) bisexuality" posts we get around here, I'm wondering why married women aren't dating other married women.

We are, we are just out there having so much fun that we don't have time the need to come here and crow about it!

OK, that was somewhat toungue-in-cheek, but the tendancy remains that people tend to seek advice on the internet when they are having issues - when expectations don't match up. When things are going well, people are just living their lives. I don't post on here every time I talk to Lotus (bi-married), VV (bi-married), or MsJ (bi-married - who unfortunately passed away about a year ago). For me these long-term (three decades in the case of VV) "comet" relationships happen in the quiet comfortable places when we have the bandwidth to make time and space for them.

Remember that our perspective here is shaped by the stories and experiences of the subset of poly (and poly-curious) people who post here.

JaneQ

 

[Inaniel]

There is a widely cited statistic that suggests that 20% of men in the dating pool engage in sex with 80% of the women in the same pool. Therefore, it appears that this phenomenon is not exclusive to polyamory since the dating market is naturally competitive, even for single men.

I believe that married polyamorous men may face additional challenges due to societal attitudes towards gender and sexuality. Women have historically been objectified and mainly seen as sexual objects, while men have been perceived primarily as providers of resources. Such cultural programming can make it harder for a married man to be seen as a desirable resource by potential partners, while it may be easier for a married poly woman to exercise her sexual power. A married poly man may be faced with the perception that it would be challenging for him to exercise discretion over resources because they are tied up in the legal constraints of a marriage.

I am not suggesting that these attitudes are conscious thoughts in the mind of the average married poly woman. Instead, I acknowledge that these attitudes are often subconscious and deeply ingrained from our upbringing. I think this also explains why many feminist and sexually liberated polyamorous women still desire marriage, despite its patriarchal roots. The institution of marriage historically served to suppress women's sexual power and exploit their access to family inheritance. So why do poly women want to have anything to do with the sexist institution of marriage?

I think it all must be a consequence of the profound lasting impacts cultural programming we receive as children have on our subconscious decision-making processes.

 

[Magdlyn]

There is a widely cited statistic that suggests that 20% of men in the dating pool engage in sex with 80% of the women in the same pool. Therefore, it appears that this phenomenon is not exclusive to polyamory since the dating market is naturally competitive, even for single men.

I believe that married polyamorous men may face additional challenges due to societal attitudes towards gender and sexuality. Women have historically been objectified and mainly seen as sexual objects, while men have been perceived primarily as providers of resources. Such cultural programming can make it harder for a married man to be seen as a desirable resource by potential partners, while it may be easier for a married poly woman to exercise her sexual power. A married poly man may be faced with the perception that it would be challenging for him to exercise discretion over resources because they are tied up in the legal constraints of a marriage.

I am not suggesting that these attitudes are conscious thoughts in the mind of the average married poly woman. Instead, I acknowledge that these attitudes are often subconscious and deeply ingrained from our upbringing. I think this also explains why many feminist and sexually liberated polyamorous women still desire marriage, despite its patriarchal roots. The institution of marriage historically served to suppress women's sexual power and exploit their access to family inheritance. So why do poly women want to have anything to do with the sexist institution of marriage?

I think it all must be a consequence of the profound lasting impacts cultural programming we receive as children have on our subconscious decision-making processes.

Rather than as a reaction to amorphous engrained cultural roots, I wanted marriage as a young woman because I knew I would benefit financially, both in the short term (wedding gifts and cash) and long term, as the legal spouse of a man with far greater earning potential than I had. He probably wanted to marry me to claim me as his own, for sexual and status reasons.

If I were a young woman today I might have made different decisions.

 

[dingedheart]

I wanted marriage as a young woman because I knew I would benefit financially, both in the short term (wedding gifts and cash) and long term, as the legal spouse of a man with far greater earning potential than I had. He probably wanted to marry me to claim me as his own, for sexual and status reasons.

If I were a young woman today I might have made different decisions.

Hard to believe it didn’t work out for you had such a nice business arrangement for the two of you. Did you fake the wedding photos or just take pictures of contracts being signed

Did you pass this philosophy onto your kids ?

 

[Magdlyn]

Hard to believe it didn’t work out for you had such a nice business arrangement for the two of you. Did you fake the wedding photos or just take pictures of contracts being signed

Did you pass this philosophy onto your kids ?

It was a real wedding with real photos. We were in love but we were too young. We didn't really believe in marriage. We'd been living together for 3 years, but there was pressure on us to legalize things. This was a long time ago. (I'm old, as you know. That's why I mentioned how things have changed.) But people do still get married for financial reasons. Also, in some cultures, there is no love involved; marriages are arranged for the benefit of the larger family and so that children can be born in wedlock.

As far as passing it on to my kids, I don't think that's a serious question, nor is it relevant to the topic.

 

[Inaniel]

Rather than as a reaction to amorphous engrained cultural roots, I wanted marriage as a young woman because I knew I would benefit financially, both in the short term (wedding gifts and cash) and long term, as the legal spouse of a man with far greater earning potential than I had. He probably wanted to marry me to claim me as his own, for sexual and status reasons.

If I were a young woman today I might have made different decisions.

It appears to me that your marriage was a conscious and deliberate reaction rooted in deeply ingrained cultural traditions. In my opinion, it reflects the conventional courtship practices prevalent in mid-20th century America.

Although I may be naive in suggesting that such motives are unconscious, my initial thoughts were influenced by contemporary instances of polyamorous individuals choosing to get married, which is what I find perplexing.

Nevertheless, I respect your capacity to reflect upon your past actions and intentions with accuracy.

 

[dingedheart]

As far as passing it on to my kids, I don't think that's a serious question, nor is it relevant to the topic.

yes definitely off topic but you said if you were a young women today you might do things differently and people often see themselves in their kids and it would seem natural to me that one might want to share those opinions Or philosophy. You might have examples of stupid or non serious question in my history but I generally ask questions to gain understanding for the bigger picture.

 

[Magdlyn]

It appears to me that your marriage was a conscious and deliberate reaction rooted in deeply ingrained cultural traditions. In my opinion, it reflects the conventional courtship practices prevalent in mid-20th century America.

Well, it was rooted in my poverty as an almost literally starving artist grabbing freelance work, and my ex h looking towards a brilliant career as an engineer in the infant digital electronics revolution. I was a feminist and so was my mother, so I had a foot in both worlds. I won't deny I was partly a product of an outdated 1950s culture, but I was also part of the 1960s-'70s sexual revolution, anti-establishmentarianism, the fight for civil rights for POC, women, gay people, etc. It was a confusing time.

Although I may be naive in suggesting that such motives are unconscious, my initial thoughts were influenced by contemporary instances of polyamorous individuals choosing to get married, which is what I find perplexing.

One does stupid things in one's early 20s before one's brain is fully developed! When I started getting letters addressed to "Mrs John Smith" (my husband's first and last name), I started thinking, "What have I done? I have lost my identity and become a possession, chattel." And to a degree, I had.

Nevertheless, I respect your capacity to reflect upon your past actions and intentions with accuracy.

Thanks.

 

[Pippa]

https://polyamory.com/threads/husband-feeling-left-out.155273/#post-489342

Partly instigated by this thread but I've pondered this before. Logically speaking, in the heterosexual world, for every poly married man who is "having it tough", he has a poly wife who is "having it easy".

I'm assuming the partner of the OP of the linked thread is married, so who is his wife dating (I'm not suggesting a quad, bear with me!)? Is she dating other women? Is this a case of the OPP backfiring on cis poly men as a whole?

Are married poly men much less attractive to married poly men than the other way around? Is marriage more of an obstacle for what a married poly woman wants from people who aren't her spouse?

You'd think that married poly people would be pretty good matches for each other. Someone in a similar situation who "gets" how you have to prioritize your life. Married het poly women seem to find these guys all the time. So why is there a shortage of female equivalents?

Maybe these married poly women aren't actually dating married poly men at all. Maybe they're dating unattached men who don't want the escalator and there are just fewer women who don't want that.

I don't know. It doesn't make sense to me.

I can’t speak for all married ladies, but my wife is looking for a boyfriend who can bring her romance and love, she has this with me but she needs more and I support her with this, it’s something she deserves and I love her her being happy

 

[Openbook23]

Since anecdotes seem welcome in this thread (and let's face it...there's not enough good data on these topics), I'll add my own. As a married man, I think I benefited from the fact that my wife had other partners for years before I even tried it. As a result, I wasn't dealing with any drama that my newer partners have to deal with while getting to know me. I'm not feeling jealousy toward my wife, and our relationship feels very secure to me. I don't feel threatened by her other partners, and she doesn't feel threatened by mine.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of tendencies that women need to be aware of when dating a married man. Look at how many posts (here or on OKC or wherever) that are men who clearly just want sex, have boundaries like 'no men added to our couple' or 'we only play together'. Many of these rules are patriarch-based. So, what is a woman getting from joining this? I haven't mentioned unicorn hunters (not directly, anyway).

My relationship doesn't have any of those rules. My wife may fall in love; I hope she does! That's the point. She might just want to have sex with someone and then never see him again. Again, cool. But so many open relationships have all these rules, which means any woman wanting to date a man in such arrangements is put into a secondary status by default. Who would want that?

Of course, my wife does have to deal with men who think they are OK with being with her but actually can't handle it. They think 'oh, great! I can hang out with you and have no pressure of commitment or anything else. Sounds great!' In practice, though, it doesn't always work for them, for a variety of reasons. But these men are generally more willing to try than women are with me. I get it. In one recent case, a woman who is married (and new to poly, to be fair) stopped dating me because I have a wife and it was bothering her. She has since messaged me wanting to try again, but I absolutely understand her feelings. We are socialized to think of that as cheating, no matter how much I (or my wife) might tell her it's fine.

 

[Midnight_Shaman]

I am in the situation where I (female) have it easy finding partners and my spouse (male) has expressed frustration trying to find anyone. Most of his partners have been bi women I have gotten involved with who found to be into him, but most of those were more of a friends with benefits than romantic partnership. There is a demisexual straight single female mutual friend who feels like she is not interested in a romantic partner but occasionally gets in the mood for sexual contact once every 3-10 years that knows he's safe and they can play together. My spouse did find one romantic/sexual partner on his own through the workplace.

Some of the difference in our luck with finding someone comes with differences in our personalities, especially when it comes to meeting new people. My husband is shy, has a lot of social anxiety. It takes a long time to warm up to new people (or alcohol in his system) before people get to see him at ease enough for his sense of humor and joy and playfulness shine through. New people often go to me for comfort and advice when trying to establish friendships with him because he comes off as being standoffish and distant rather than shy or anxious, and they worry that he hates them and is just too polite to say it. Left to his own devices, my husband is quite content with a social life that consists exclusively of his brother and friends he's lived with that already know his quirks and have made it past the social anxiety barriers. While he sometimes gets resentful of my ease at finding romantic and sexual partners particularly when I find someone new, he also does not dedicate any time towards meeting new people or establishing deeper connections with people he already knows. We have read up on tips for how to help him find partners, and he's gotten a couple email addresses when I've played wingman, but it doesn't usually get more than exchanging a few emails. We've had the best luck meeting new people he could get involved with when we were at parties, either ones we threw or someone else did where my husband was more comfortable being himself because he alrady knew most of the people there or was tipsy enough to feel more comfortable being himself. If friends brought other friends we didn't know who initiated flirtation with my husband, and they could readily see that I was totally fine with (and in fact, was titiilated by watching...) them kissing around with my husband. The getting to know them and establishing actual relationships woud happen after the party was over.

During the few times where my husband did put effort into finding someone through online poly groups or boards or whatnot, he has had zero luck. When I have tried meeting people through those methods, I've gotten a couple of men interested in sex, one was a single, one was part of a couple where the woman made the approach and was clearly supportive of it. I didn't have chemistry with either of the men and one of them violated one of my boundaries even after I had very clearly stated it. So, even though I had the 'hot bi woman' thing going on, I have gotten pretty crappy resutls when I resorted to the same methods my husband has tried to meet other poly people.

100% of my relationships have come out of face-to-face interaction with other people with me being myself. I get social anxiety too, but I have dissociative identity disorder and when I feel safe enough (which is some combination of familiar location and having enough people I know around me that I know if someone did try to violate my boundaries I'd be able to say something and quickly have support and a physial barrier betwen me and whoever didn't respect my boundarieis), then my flirtateous side would come out and I would flirt with anyone regardless of gender or sexual orientation at parties. I occasionally have been pleasantly surprised by someone taking me seriously enough to follow up on said flirting and discovered some very interesting and wonderful friends and lovers that way. I have generally been open with my feelings, and if I love someone, even if we have a platonic friendship, I let them know. I have been open about being omnisexual and poly, so when friends have questions about that, they have come to me.

I have gotten involved with married men or couples, that has come out of long-term friendships. Usualy that has been a woman in an MF couple wanting to explore her sexuality and the husband came as an unexpected bonus, The only time where the romantic & sexual relationship started with an advance by the man was when a couple was very much in love with each other but had very mismatched sex drives and asked if I'd be open to the man as a sexual partner. It was very clear though that it was happening with the wife's knowledge and support as she was there during him asking me "hey, I know your poly and your previous partner was okay with you pursuing women but not men, but what is the stance of your current partner?" and all the discussion that ensued.

I will admit, it is easier for me to find relationships among people who are single (whether male or female) than those who are married because they are more likely to follow up on me flirting at a party. Outside of the party 'flirting with everyone' environment, I don't tend to flirt with people who are in a couple unless I already know both parties are fine with that, or unless I knew the people involved before they became a couple. I just tend to assume a couple is mono unless proven otherwise even though I might flirt with someone single under the same circumstances.

Given all the times I've seen people on the board say they would not engage with a couple who was mono trying to open up with poly, I figured I should point out that there are also people like me out who have had wonderful experiences getting involved in a mono-to-poly first time situation even though one of them was completely spontaneous! However, I think it is also in part because they were all with couples that I had known for years, already felt totally safe with, and knew their relationship was solid, knew they had communication skills and that we would all feel comfortable saying something if anyone's feelings were getting hurt or other concerns arose.

Also, the larger the number of sexual partners involved, the more communication and trust it takes. When I have sex with someone, I am also getting the exposure to any little germies from any of their partners, so I need to have trust that them and any others they are involved with are practicing safe sex and taking appropriate covid precautions to avoid spreading things to me and my family. Me joining in with one or more members of a committed mono partnership that has decided to open up still feels safe to me, and they are usually quite willing to take up my standards for health safety. Me getting physically involved with someone else who is has multiple partners or who is involved with someone who has multiple partners takes additional communication and trust for thorough risk assessment.

 

[Vicki82]

Honestly, I think this is about perception more than anything else.

Typically, women on dating sites have to sift through a ton of low quality messages/hits/whatever you want to call them, from people who may not even remotely resemble what she's looking for. That's stressful.

Typically, men on dating sites have to send a bunch of thoughtful messages before they get a decent reply and it still may not go anywhere. Also stressful.

But it doesn't mean it's easier for a poly woman to find a quality relationship. It is just the perception of the guy who has to work so hard to get a single date versus the woman who is buried in crap. Both situations suck. And quality relationships are hard to find.