Lack of attention

[vinsanity0]

For what it's worth, I don't think Kip is missing out on anything. I doubt his intention has ever been to have a real-life meeting. Everything points to Kip being an internet player. Guys like him usually push as far as they can before the sub has had enough.

I have to assume the wife has little to no experience. She really needs to do some research into BDSM so she can stop being victimized, and does not become a victim again.

 

[Spork]

Dingedheart, we have both talked to Inthedark via PM, then. I think we both have to be very careful how much we project of the things that we've been through and done, because his situation with his wife isn't really a direct parallel to yours or mine, even though there are ~just~ enough similarities to tempt us to say, "Yes, this is like what happened to me."

I am heavily involved in the BDSM community. I go to a local Alt-Lifestyle Community Center and dungeon. Inthedark has been there. It's a good place, and has good people. I also have two teenage sons. My teenage sons will NEVER see explicit pictures of me, because I don't allow them to be taken, nor would I take them for anyone else. My sons will never overhear or accidentally walk in on anything, because I don't do that stuff in my home. I draw my lines and tend to my responsibilities.

They wouldn't have a single clue about any of it, except that their vindictive father wants them to think ill of me, and therefore tells them things they don't need to know and don't want to hear. Their response is, "Why is he saying these things to me? I don't want to hear it. I don't care what Mom does with her friends. It's none of my business and I don't judge." Because I've raised them to be aware that in a general sense, love takes many forms, and so long as it's consenting adults, it's not our business or our place to judge anybody. As teenagers, they are not adults, but they are not innocent little angels either. There is a level of information they need and a level they don't.

They have met my poly quad. This weekend we went hiking. They've seen that first and foremost, these people are friends and time spent with them is happy time. My ex wants to believe that my poly lifestyle is a nonstop orgy, because surely the reason I left him was that I wanted to slut around. My kids know better. They know he's just jealous and bitter.

That's the place I speak from. Yet for all I try to manage things in a sane way and be a responsible parent, I do find it all too easy to go out a few times a week, knowing that my kids are good on schoolwork (I check the school website portal), that they can feed themselves, that they just want to play Minecraft, that they're not likely to get up to dangerous teenage shenanigans. I am blessed with good kids. They make it too easy to neglect them. And that's still not ok. So... yeah. I'm working on that.

I know that Megan is not me, nor what you have seen or gone through in your examples. I doubt that she is being so irresponsible as your wife was, in the horror stories you tell. Yet at the minimum, she's probably being very self-absorbed in this situation. Somewhere between the two is where I'm guessing reality exists.

What sucks is that this online garbage with this fantasy man who treats her like a non-person (like a videogame character, to play with, but whose life and family's life are not given the consideration of flesh and blood human beings). All the risk associated with carrying out this stuff under the family roof-- it's all so incredibly unnecessary. She's got a perfectly good place nearby, where she could go to explore all of this, in a safe and monitored environment, with experienced people who know what they are doing. And no risk of her kids seeing or hearing too much. But that's not what she's after. She wants escape, fantasy, and to (I believe) manipulate her husband into certain reactions.

Inthedark, you see it as Kip having fucked up and possibly ruined his chance. But that isn't how it is. Because to him, she is not the prize that she is to you. To him, she really hasn't got much value. He probably thinks she is incredibly naive and gullible, and he has not acted with any respect for her or you. He's acted a bit like a sociopath, actually, playing games with people as though they are not human beings, but toys or characters. Not just Megan, but you, too. The last thing he wants is for her to show up in the flesh and have to be tended to in real life like a real person. Hopefully now that it's all come to a head, Megan might start to realize that.

If she does put all of this Kip stuff aside and endeavors to get past and over it, do both of you a favor and put it behind yourself, as well. This is the kind of thing where, if a couple manages to get past it and through it and out the other side, if you keep bringing it up in arguments and stuff years later, it continues to poison a marriage. Here's hoping she wises up, drops the loser, and learns something.

So very sorry to have offended you. However, for someone who has had to deal with the clean up from a teenage girl reading the banter, seeing the photos and videos of Mommy's "training" that has ripple effects far beyond what most people would imagine. I get to deal with kids waking up in the middle of the night with nightmares, with the time and travel taking them to therapy. The costs... Being called to school because during some date rape video my daughter burst into tears... not a response they usually see, etc.
I have had several conversations with Inthedark via PM. I knew that the children were NOT told about their marriage being open. Both similar to my situation. He gave me a brief picture of how the kids relate to their mother, which goes to your point about perceptions.

I think perception is a key factor...

However, my assumption is the average kid seeing his mother led naked on all fours, going through inspection positions, having a strange guy piss into her mouth... that stuff doesn't get washed away. It's in there forever.

Now who's making assumptions? I was talking about someone caught up with NRE and sub frenzy that impairs judgement which could lead to a mess.

SSC: Safe, Sane, Consensual
RACK: Risk Aware Consensual Kink
PRICK: Personal Responsibility In Consensual Kink

Who came up with these clever acronyms? Why isn't that just assumed? Why the reminder? Who needs those reminders?
It takes one small lapse, a kid who cant sleep and can hear through heat ducts. Or Mommy passed out drunk logged on to email account or computer

 

[Ivylein]

Ice Cream for the win!

It takes great courage to continue to love when you're frightened. I think that if you can continue to be generous with her, this other internet thing is going to burn out.

 

[dingedheart]

We have both talked to Inthedark via PM, then. I think we both have to be very careful how much we project of the things that we've been through and done, because his situation with his wife isn't really a direct parallel to yours or mine, even though there are ~just~ enough similarities to tempt us to say, "Yes, this is like what happened to me."

So you want me to be "very careful" on recommending being careful?

Direct parallel? Where's the threshold for that? I don't know your situation. If I commented on a thread you wrote. I've forgotten. I don't know the elements in which you think your behavior is like her behavior. However, I do know my wife got caught up NRE/over-zealousness and made risky decisions in terms of conduct, did loads of communication via text and email, stored all that stuff on a computer, and lastly, she did opt out of several family trips and mini vacations as to further her slave training or go to events. That's the similarity, the parallel.

Do you have a smoke detector in your home? Have you directly had a fire in which a smoke detector helped?

I am heavily involved in the BDSM community. I go to a local Alt-Lifestyle Community Center and dungeon. Inthedark has been there. It's a good place, and has good people. I also have two teenage sons. My teenage sons will NEVER see explicit pictures of me, because I don't allow them to be taken, nor would I take them for anyone else. My sons will never overhear or accidentally walk in on anything, because I don't do that stuff in my home. I draw my lines and tend to my responsibilities.

I'm very confused by reading this. How is your situation at all like ITD's? It seems by your conduct you actually agree with me. My whole point and concern was for his kids stumbling across this stuff with some guy no one knows and then the shit storm would start. It was a friendly warning.

Stove hot = bad. Kids seeing Mommy being paraded around on all fours by a leash with her animal tail butt plug in = bad.

They wouldn't have a single clue about any of it,

And I think that's very wise... you don't want them to know.

Their father wants them to think ill of me... tells them things that they don't need to know and don't want to hear. Their response is, "Why is he saying these things to me? I don't want to hear it. I don't care... I don't judge." Because I've raised them to be aware that in a general sense, love takes many forms, and so long as it's consenting adults, it's not our business or our place to judge anybody. As teenagers, they are not adults, but they are not innocent little angels, either. There is a level of information they need and a level they don't.

I'm confused. A) How is your ex-husband telling your kids negative things remotely similar to ITD's? I know for a fact he doesn't want his kids to know this stuff. B) My whole point was to insulate them completely from all this stuff. I never suggested outing his wife-- "Hey kids, want to see a funny home video of your mom practicing her slave positions?"...

They have met my poly quad. This weekend we went hiking. They've seen that first and foremost, these people are friends and time spent with them is happy time. My ex wants to believe that my poly lifestyle is a nonstop orgy, because surely the reason I left him was that I wanted to slut around. My kids KNOW BETTER. And they know he's just jealous and bitter, too.

Again, not exactly analogous. ITD's kids don't know of their open marriage. I think your ex is as damaging and dangerous as ITD's wife is stupid and irresponsible with her choices.

That's the place I speak from. Yet for all I try to manage things in a sane way and be a responsible parent...I do find it all too easily to go out a few times a week, knowing that my kids are good on schoolwork (checked the school website portal thing) and knowing they can feed themselves, and knowing that they just want to play Minecraft, and they're not likely to get up to dangerous teenage shenanigans. I am blessed with good kids. They make it too easy to neglect them. And that's still not ok. So yeah...I'm working on that.

Here again, I think the situations are different. Your kids are older. You see the potential risks and have eliminated them and because of the divorce see time with them differently. Pretty hard to blow off the family camping trip now. Not that you would have before. I'm just saying now you don't really have the option if it's just the three of you.

I think that Megan is not me, nor what you have seen or gone through in your examples. I doubt that she is being SO irresponsible as the horror stories you tell. Yet at the minimum, she's probably being VERY self-absorbed in this situation. Somewhere between the two is where I'm guessing reality exists.

One of the examples was Megan leaving her daughter's birthday party to send naked photos. I guess she was really in the moment of the birthday party, really focused on her daughter for that hour or 2. Nothing says happy birthday like a boob or crotch shot. Daughter has a birthday party and the online guy gets a present, have a nice day. You want to tell me given a similar circumstance (being bored at indoor water park), she/they might not do the same thing? I'd say the odds of that are better than 50/50, more like 70/30.

What sucks is that this online garbage with this fantasy man who treats her like a non-person (a video game woman character)... and all the risk associated in carrying out this stuff under the family roof, it's all incredibly unnecessary. She's got a perfectly good place she could go to explore all of this, in a safe and monitored environment with experienced people who know what they are doing, and no risk of her kids seeing or hearing too much. But that's not what she's after. She wants escape, fantasy, and to (I believe) manipulate her husband into certain reactions.

Amen. This was my point.

 

[Spork]

The fact that you keep repeating these graphic examples to fully illustrate how shocking and disgusting the behaviors are that you're talking about is pretty much what I'm pointing to and having an issue with, dingedheart.

I have not been told any stories or given the impression by ITD that his wife is leaving explicit materials where the kids could find it, nor that she is engaging in explicit behaviors where the kids could see. The water park thing-- that was YOUR wife, no? Or am I missing something? I didn't even catch the story about the birthday party. If that's ITD's wife, she went and locked herself in a room and did this thing? That falls more under the category of "checked out and neglectful" than "exposing the kids to her kinks."

Where was the part where the kids being exposed to "Mom on a leash being paraded with butt plug"? Oh wait. That's your situation.

I push back against this, because in society among most folks, a Mom who engages in polyamory, let alone BDSM, is ASSUMED to be exposing her kids to orgies and kinks. I have had numerous people ask, with tones of righteous indignation, "Where are your kids when you're doing XYZ??" Um... at home playing Minecraft? Like, do people think I'm just getting it on in front of them? Leaving them in the car in the parking lot of the BDSM club? But ya know, mainstream American culture would have it that the sexuality of a mom should be a secret held by her and her husband, and that outside of that locked bedroom door, she had better be a plump, androgynous minivan driver. She can be looked down on by the PTA crowd for even having a nice body or looking attractive.

I've got relatives who assume my poly lifestyle is a nonstop orgy.

I've had relatives grill me about what I do or don't tell my kids, and/or let them see.

This, after a lifetime of being called "the most sane person they know" and "a rock" and "so intellectual".... when you bring sex into it, clearly I have lost my mind and can't even be relied on to be a decent mom unless everyone makes sure I'm not exposing my kids to things. No one has any reason to think I am, but they are just looking to be shocked and disgusted and morally outraged. What anyone won't give for the chance to clutch those pearls.

So yeah, I'm defensive. I think your posts go too far in trying to provoke outrage and indignation. Unless ITD tells me something to indicate that such is warranted, I am sure not going to think Megan is a bad Mom. She's a bad wife and bad to herself right now, and that is bad enough. No kink shaming required. BDSM isn't the issue-- the way she's going about all of this is. Should ITD correct me on this score, I will express concern in that regard. Until then, I'll assume that what she's doing is no worse than two parents having sex privately in the same home as their kids, or Dad having "adult materials" of his own (which many do), etc., as far as her behavior as a MOM is concerned.

Anyhow, I'm done. I think if that doesn't explain where I was coming from, nothing will.

I'm far more interested in any developments going on from ITD today. I really hope it's possible for Megan to wake up to how ludicrous this Kip situation is. I'm honestly not even sure she is that interested in BDSM so much as just pushing her husband's buttons and playing weird games, wanting to be a mom, but also wanting to be free, wanting security, but also adventure. There are ways to strike balance, but this sure ain't it.

 

[aussiekate]

Well said, Spork. God forbid a woman who's reproduced express her sexuality! All of a sudden, everybody gets the right to judge. It's misogynistic and it has to be called out when seen.

 

[Inthedark]

I have to assume the wife has little to no experience. She really needs to do some research into BDSM, so she can stop being victimized, and does not become a victim again.

She's got a perfectly good place nearby, where she could go to explore all of this, in a safe and monitored environment, with experienced people who know what they are doing.

I will address both of these points. First, no she has no experience. She and I used to do a little impact play. She had a brief encounter with some folks in the community in Denver about a year or so ago. But she has never been a sub. In fact, until all this cyber stuff began, she said that she was not interested in being a sub.

I was shocked when she reversed herself. I think now she is caught up in NRE, sub-frenzy, and fantasy. She has done some research, but mainly as directed by him.

I have tried to point out other things that she could do independently, but she refuses. I have also encouraged her to come out to Voodoo and meet some real folks who have a lot of experience and expertise. She refuses.

The other day, I mentioned to Kip that he was sending up red flags.

He has my wife's mind so warped now that she refuses to even consider any perspective other than his. She stated that the only reason I saw these things as red flags is because that is what I wanted to believe. I tried to counter that with the fact that I have done an incredible amount of research on the topic. I have been researching BDSM for about two years now.

She said that the people who are mentoring me and giving me advice are wrong, and that anything they tell me is opinion and conjecture. She said that there is no rule book. She asked, how can I say he is potentially dangerous if there are no rules? When I heard that, I knew that I have no hope of getting her to see reason.

I would love to talk to one person, just one, that can hear my story and say that this guy Kip is being ethical and is safe and is doing what a dom should do. But that one person doesn't exist. Everyone I talk to and every article I read says that this guy is dangerous.

So, after the events of last weekend, I truly believe that there is a conspiracy against me. Evidence:

My wife has started taking about how we need to get some projects done around the house to increase its value for when we sell. We decided a year ago that we were not going to sell or move until at least the summer of 2019.

She also mentioned that Kip is preparing a contract for her and they are discussing collaring. This contract will apparently have a "no-walk" clause, which would essentially (though not legally) prevent my wife from withdrawing her consent.

It's just one big damn mess. So I contacted a friend who I rarely talk to unless I need help. He is an old Army buddy that I mentored when he was a young sergeant. He credits me with being one of the greatest influences on his life. He runs a private security company now. He comes from a wealthy family. He has in the past offered me the use of his resources if I ever needed them. He has consulted his lawyer for me and is willing to help me if I need to get out of the situation.

We will see how things play out. But for now, I guess I'm going to let sleeping dogs lie and get my mind healthy.

 

[kdt26417]

Sounds like you're taking sensible precautions. Hang in there.

 

[Magdlyn]

I've been thinking about this. Besides the unhealthy BDSM aspect, which is concerning, I have some questions.

Inthedark has said he and his wife have had an "open relationship" for some time. I wonder how long it has been going on, and if it worked well for some years. He's been away for the military for decades, away more than home. Have they both had multiple relationships over the years that were more functional? Has he had "a girl in every port?" Has the wife had local bfs, or has she only had online relationships? He mentioned "her lovers" briefly at the beginning of the thread.

When he recounted the recent fun night, with the ice cream and laughter, etc., it gave me hope for them. However, "Can this marriage be saved?" depends perhaps on a complete reboot of their relationship now that he has retired and will be home full time. The question is, is there something good to be salvaged?

It could take time. The wife is infatuated with her online dom. That needs to be dealt with. Inthedark and his wife could choose to commit to rebuilding their relationship, but it has to be almost from scratch. Neither one is the same person they were on their wedding day. They would basically need to court and woo each other all over again, to see if there is still enough in common to bother with staying together.

Surely this is a common problem with military families. I know there are large and close and supportive "military wives" groups out there, who can share how they began to reconnect with their husband after retirement. There must be online groups like this one that could offer all kinds of information and support.

The wife has been virtually a single mom, with little to no input from Inthedark except his paycheck. Now she is expected to have less independence and suddenly know how to cooperate and flow with a man in the house.

Nothing is going to work to rebuild except a recommitment on the wife's part to their couple. When there is this much disconnect, the distraction of a lover (online or local) is not appropriate. All the ruby bracelets and submission of her husband won't work if she feels she is no longer interested in him at all.

 

[Spork]

Besides the unhealthy BDSM aspect, which is concerning, questions:

Inthedark has said he and his wife have had an "open relationship" for some time. I wonder how long it has been going on, and if it worked well for some years. He's been away for the military for decades, away more than home. Have they both had multiple relationships over the years that were more functional? Has he had "a girl in every port?" Has the wife had local bfs, or has she only had online relationships? He mentioned "her lovers" briefly at the beginning of the thread.

When he recounted the recent fun night, with the ice cream and laughter, etc., it gave me hope for them. However, "Can this marriage be saved?" depends perhaps on a complete reboot of their relationship now that he has retired and will be home full time. The question is, is there something good to be salvaged?

It could take time. The wife is infatuated with her online Dom. That needs to be dealt with. Inthedark and his wife could choose to commit to rebuilding their relationship, but it has to be almost from scratch. Neither one is the same person they were on their wedding day. They would basically need to court and woo each other all over again, to see if there is still enough in common to bother with staying together.

Surely this is a common problem with military families. I know there are large and close and supportive "military wives" groups out there, who can share how they began to reconnect with their husband after retirement. There must be online groups like this one that could offer all kinds of information and support.

The wife has been virtually a single mom, with little to no input from Inthedark except his paycheck. Now she is expected to have less independence and suddenly know how to cooperate and flow with a man in the house.

Nothing is going to work to rebuild except a recommitment on the wife's part to their couple. When there is this much disconnect, the distraction of a lover (online or local) is not appropriate. All the ruby bracelets and submission of her husband won't work if she feels she is no longer interested in him at all.

I agree with much of this. I want to chime briefly about the military wives groups, though. First off, his wife would have to be willing to listen to the input of others. She isn't. She's being really stubborn about "YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME. I DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO YOU. I'M MAKING UP MY OWN RULES!" which frankly, sucks a lot. There's a wealth of information and guidance available to her from a variety of sources, but whenever ITD says, "Hey, you should read the things," or "Hey, you should talk to these people," she digs in her heels.

About military wives groups, though, I had some experience with that when my ex was in, and I could find no common ground there and didn't go for very long. There are lots of young, immature women, with small children, military DEPENDENTS, who didn't work, who lived on post. I didn't want to hear gossip about the other wives who weren't in the room, or hear about who was cheating on which deployed husband, or which soldier was banging the wives of his brothers who were overseas, etc. Gross. I, on the other hand, lived in a nice home off post, had a full time job, was in my 30s, had adolescent kids, and was a (stubbornly) faithful wife.

I once explained this to an officer's wife while in the waiting room at the mechanic's on post. She told me that it was my OBLIGATION to mentor the younger women and provide a good example. Um, no, sorry, I did not sign on to bear the confessions and emotional burdens of a bunch of 20-something drama mamas that I didn't have anything in common with and didn't like. I don't even want to listen to the screeching of their unsupervised toddlers long enough to get through an FRG meeting.

Sometimes the support group is not very supportive, actually.

But a disclaimer: I only had limited (horrified) exposure to the one up in Washington State, and none before or since. Other groups might be better. And I'd actually think the military might have transitional counseling available on the family level and for spouses, in how to reintegrate the soldier after service. I'm actually pretty positive that is a thing.

 

[Inthedark]

Inthedark has said he and his wife have had an "open relationship" for some time. I wonder how long it has been going on, and if it worked well for some years. He's been away for the military for decades, away more than home. Have they both had multiple relationships over the years that were more functional? Has he had "a girl in every port?" Has the wife had local bfs, or has she only had online relationships? He mentioned "her lovers" briefly at the beginning of the thread.

Ok, so, first of all, I have been in the Army for two decades, but I haven't been away for two decades. Yes, I have spent a ton of time away from home since 2007, but I have had the opportunity to sleep in my own bed and live with my family. I have done my best to be a good Husband, father and soldier.

While this lifestyle has been tough, it was the best way for me to provide for my family. And even though my wife has felt the strain, she has been a good military spouse. I actually wanted to leave the Army in 2004, but she asked me to stay in. I wanted to leave Ft ____ in 2010, but she asked me to do what I could to stay. So I did. I stayed in the army for her. I went to war, three times, for her.

Don't get me wrong, I have loved my career and I am sad that it is coming to an end.

Second, yes, I am retiring from the Army, but that does not mean the same thing as it does when a civilian retires. I will not be at home all the time. I am currently searching for a job. Hopefully I will get something in the federal system, which will mean hours that are just as long or longer than my active-duty work day.

Third, the open relationship... We have officially been open since June of 2014. We tried once in 2012, but it didn't work out. We didn't know enough and we weren't ready. But in 2014 we tried again and it worked out for her. I am very introverted and had a hard time meeting other people.

She has had one serious, face-to-face relationship outside of the marriage. It was great. We made rules and followed them. We talked openly and honestly. There was only one little issue but we got through it. She has also had several more casual FWB-type relationships. None of it bothered me and we actually became much closer.

No, I didn't have a girl in every port (that's the Navy! LOL), although I did have some prospects. Ultimately, though, I decided that I wasn't in a place, personally or professionally, that I felt I could ethically start an outside relationship. Recently, I decided that I would close myself off. Basically, I admitted to myself that I was already living a mono lifestyle, so why not just say it? By the time I admitted this, things were not so great between my wife and me. I needed to focus on her. Things got better for a couple of months and then, BAM! The situation that we are in now began. And that is where we are today.

 

[Magdlyn]

I have been in the Army for two decades, but I haven't been away for two decades. Yes, I have spent a ton of time away from home since 2007, but I have had the opportunity to sleep in my own bed and live with my family.

No need to get defensive, ITD. I was only going by the percentages of time away and home you mentioned earlier. Face it, you've been away a lot. It's not a lifestyle I could ever choose. It is noble, but a challenge to a marriage, to live apart so much! Admit that. It's put a strain on your marriage.

I have done my best to be a good husband, father and soldier. While this lifestyle has been tough, it was the best way for me to provide for my family. And even though my wife has felt the strain, she has been a good military spouse. I actually wanted to leave the Army in 2004, but she asked me to stay in. I wanted to leave Ft ____ in 2010, but she asked me to do what I could to stay. So I did. I stayed in the army for her. I went to war, three times, for her. I have loved my career and I am sad that it is coming to an end.

You are very submissive-- not that there's anything wrong with that. Many men drawn to the military are subs. You take orders at work, and now, it seems, you take orders from your wife. You meant to leave the military twice and she didn't "let" you? She likes living apart? Or she wanted the retirement pension? Going to war "for your wife" is quite a sacrifice. That's putting your life on the line for another person, "I'd take a bullet for you" in real life! You really do put her needs before your own.

Second, yes, I am retiring from the Army, but that does not mean the same thing as it does when a civilian retires. I will not be at home all the time. I am currently searching for a job, and hopefully I will get something in the federal system, which will mean hours that are just as long, or longer that my active-duty work day.

Well... yeah. But maybe you should stick around for a while, or god knows how far off the rails she will go.

We have officially been open since June of 2014...

I am very introverted and had a hard time meeting other people. She has had one serious, face-to-face relationship outside of the marriage. It was great. We made rules and followed them. We talked openly and honestly. She has also had several more casual FWB type relationships... we actually became much closer.

I wasn't in a place, personally or professionally, that I felt I could ethically start an outside relationship... I admitted to myself that I was already living a mono lifestyle, so why not just say it. By the time I admitted this, things were not so great between my wife and me. I needed to focus on her. Things got better for a couple of months and then, BAM! The situation that we are in now began.

Thanks for more background.

So you want or need to focus on your wife, on your primary relationship. You're happy with a mono/poly configuration. But somewhere along the line, she's checked out. You live for your wife, in complete submission. You've proven you would die for her. Meanwhile, however, she's devoted herself to another man, and it's not seeming healthy, despite your claim her previous relationships only enhanced your relationship together. You must feel humiliated. But maybe you get off on humiliation? It's a kink.

 

[Tinwen]

You must feel humiliated. But maybe you get off on humiliation? It's a kink.

Magdlyn, I know you mean it well, because it is good to know about oneself, but I find this slightly offensive to OP. Even if he does, it doesn't sound like he is happy at all with the situation. I think it's not very relevant.

I guess I am writing this just to remind InTheDark that he doesn't have to answer here publickly.

 

[Inthedark]

No need to get defensive, ITD.

Magdlyn, I am so sorry! I didn't mean to come off as defensive, but going back and reading my post, it does seem like I was. For that I apologize.
You are correct in saying that I have been away a lot. I left home in December of 2006 and I haven't spent more than 22 month in the States since then. This June will mark the first time in nearly 10 years that I have been home for two straight years, and the first time in that entire stretch that I slept in my own bed every night. Even before, when I wasn't overseas, I was in the field training or going to some other post for a school.

My motivation in all of this was that I was (or at least thought I was) doing the right thing for my family. But they say the path to Hell is paved with good intentions. Right now, I think that I am in Hell. If not, the only thing that keeps me from descending to Hell is my kids. Our relationship has never been better. My daughter is old enough now that we can have a lot of fun together doing more "grown up" stuff, and my son has gotten to know me and I have gotten to know him better than ever before.

I focus on a lot of negatives in this thread. I look on my military retirement as a negative thing, because it isn't my choice. But one of the most positive things that has come of that particular situation is that I got to tell my son that his daddy will never have to leave again. I will be crushed if my marriage fails and I have to break that promise to him.

You are very submissive.

Actually, I would say that I am adaptable. One of the skills that I learned at a very young age was how to adapt and be the person that others wanted me to be. This helped me get through a very rough childhood. My mother has a ton of behavioral health issues. She was in and out of psychiatric hospitals from the time I was 4 until I was 19 or 20. I constantly had to adapt to living with a mother and living without one. By the time I was in high school, I counted this as a skill. It helped me get along with just about everyone. It also helped me in the Army, especially when I was put into situations that weren't very comfortable.

By my nature, I am very charismatic, and I have a very A-type, dominant personality. I lost a bit of this as I began having my anxiety issues and became more of an introvert, but it is still a huge part of my personality. I'm a fighter and a survivor. I do submit to my wife. Currently I am in a state of total submission to her. I have adapted to my current situation. I have had a talent of putting myself into situations in which things generally turn out well for me. One of the reasons my current situation is so rough is because I can't figure out what to do to make the situation work out.

But maybe you should stick around for a while.

I'm not planning on going anywhere. I do think that I might be asked to leave in April or July, but that is just speculation. I won't leave unless I absolutely have to.

I've said several times that I would rather spend an eternity in misery with her than have one day of pure bliss without her.

My problem is that I want instant gratification. Many of you have complimented me on my patience. I can be a very patient man, but I want this situation resolved quickly, and I want it to turn out in my favor. I fight against myself every day; telling myself that this is a fairly new situation and I need to ride out her NRE. With her first relationship, her NRE lasted about four months. She has only been involved with the dom guy for a month. Some days, I get the feeling that her NRE and sub frenzy are wearing off, but then something happens and she's wrapped up in dreams of how wonderful her life with Kip is going to be.

It's tough. But like I said, I am a survivor.

So you want or need to focus on your wife, on your primary relationship. You're happy with a mono/poly configuration. But somewhere along the line, she's checked out. You live for your wife, in complete submission. You've proven you would die for her. Meanwhile, she's devoted herself to another man, and it's not seeming healthy, despite your claim her previous relationships only enhanced your relationship together. You must feel humiliated. But maybe you get off on humiliation? It's a kink.

So, last things first. No, I do not get off on being humiliated. I don't like it at all. Not from my wife or from anyone.

One time, long ago, my wife and I were at a party, and she was a little drunk. I don't recall exactly what let up to it, but she ended up calling me a "little dick motherfucker" in front of our friends. I believe she meant it to be a joke, but I didn't take it that way.

I am not the most well-endowed man, but I am about average. That insult to my manhood really hurt me and has had a lasting impact on me. There are very few instances in which something has happened between my wife and me that I can't get over, but for some reason I hold on to that.

One of the questions that always comes up when she talks about a new paramour is, "Is his dick bigger than mine?" When she really wants to get nasty, she will make offhanded comments about this guy's length or this guy's girth. It's a childish thing to allow myself to be so affected by this, but I am. Humiliation hurts me worse than just about anything.

I am ok with the mono/poly configuration, because I don't believe that our relationship is stable enough to be a full-on poly relationship. In 2014, it was. I made the decision to close myself off because I needed to focus on what I had at home, build that up and then maybe I could open myself up. I also believe, maybe irrationally, that she is hoping that I will step out so that she might be able to use that against me. Honestly, I don't think she ever wanted me to be poly but it was something that she could sacrifice so that she could be. If I had never accepted the open relationship, she would have cheated. She has cheated on me, on many occasions. But by calling our marriage open, it allows her to cheat without the guilt.

Now, as far as the current situation goes, there would be no issues if she didn't throw our rules out the window. Her lack of respect for the rules that we both made together is what leads me to believe that she has totally checked out. When I bring up the rules, she get angry. When I ask to renegotiate the rules, she gets angry. When I say that she is breaking the rules she gets angry. That is when the emotional blackmail starts. "If I have to follow these rules, you will just never see me." That's one of her favorites.

So, to conclude this far too long post, here is what I have decided I want or at least can live with. I want the intrusiveness of her relationships to stop. I want to be recognized as her primary, or for her to admit that someone else is. I want to be considered and respected. I don't want to be involved in any of her D/s games. I don't want her D/s junk to prevent us from having a loving marriage. And I want a little loving attention. I don't need much, just a bit. My love tank is so empty right now, it wouldn't take a whole lot to fill it up.

Thanks for listening.

 

[GalaGirl]

One of the reasons my current situation is so rough is because I can't figure out what to do to make the situation work out.

I think your extreme adaptability trait is shooting you in the foot in this situation. You adapted by ultra-submitting. It's not working out.You could stop ultra-submitting and draw on your other traits instead. The leadership traits. The dominant traits. The fighter traits. The traits the say-- "That's enough! Shape up or I'm shipping out!"

Submitting, surrendering, and surviving whatever crap she dishes out? That's not fighting for your well-being, or that of the kids.

If I had never accepted the open relationship, she would have cheated. She has cheated on me on many occasions. But by calling our marriage open, it allows her to cheat without the guilt.

Ok, so the whitewashing story lets her cheat without the guilt. What do you get out of that story? You get to pretend you aren't hurting? You get to tell yourself it's ok because you "chose" this?

Why are you staying with a cheating wife? A wife who disregards your agreements and treats you without respect?

I could be wrong, but I think it is healthier to get out, and then apply your super-adaptability to a new life post crazy so you can gain PEACE OF MIND, a shot at a whole new life, where you are appreciated and respected.

Adapting to staying in this crazy life with a mean wife who cheats on you and humiliates you is not good. You are already burnt out. Your tank is empty. How much emptier does it have to get before you hit rock bottom and decide to stop "adapting"?

As far as the current situation goes, there would be no issues if she didn't throw our rules out the window. Her lack of respect for the rules that we both made together is what leads me to believe that she has totally checked out. When I bring up the rules, ask to renegotiate the rules, say that she is breaking the rules, she gets angry. That is when the emotional blackmail starts. "If I have to follow these rules, you will just never see me." That's one of her favorites.

I think your wife has become toxic for you. I think it would be better for you if she simply checked out, took herself off elsewhere physically, or was cool and unavailable emotionally, like, living in silence together. That would be better than THIS.

Instead, you are getting loads of verbal abuse, put downs, and so on. That's not "checking out." That's getting digs in. And it sounds like it has been going on a long, long time, so long that you've normalized the verbal abuse. You kept adapting.

"If I have to follow these rules, you will just never see me."

Aren't you able to say to her, "So follow the rules, or remove yourself so I never see you"? It's not like seeing her is bring you lots of joy right now.

I want the intrusiveness of her relationships to stop.

Fair enough. If she doesn't stop it, you can remove yourself and stop it.

I want to be recognized as her primary, or for her to admit that someone else is.

You aren't going to get her to recognize you as her primary, and you are not going to get her to admit someone else is. Rather than trying to get "the truth" out of her, you could just read the writing on the wall, rather than waiting for her to finally spell it out.

You could get yourself and the kids out of this mess. Ultra-submitting to your wife is not helping anyone here.

I want to be considered and respected.

I don't think you will get that from her. Her recent track record is to disrespect you and not consider you at all.

You could consider yourself and respect yourself, and get out.

I don't want to be involved in any of her D/s games.

Get out. Problem solved.

I don't want her D/s junk to prevent us from having a loving marriage.

Too late. Even before Kip and this D/s stuff, the marriage wasn't all that loving. That story about her getting drunk and calling your body parts names? That was really LOW.

I want a little loving attention. I don't need much, just a bit.

Fair enough. It doesn't have to come from her, though.

My love tank is so empty right now, it wouldn't take a whole lot to fill it up.

I see that. I am terribly sorry you deal in all this mess. But don't accept "scraps."

If she's become a toxic drain to you, does not treat you with loving and respectful behavior, you could unplug her hose from your tank. Break up with her. Move out and take the kids. Build a new life. Adapt that way.

Before you can start to fill up your tank, or invite someone else to help you fill it up, you have to get rid of the drains on it and repair the holes. Your wife is a drain, a big hole in your tank.

You put in way too much into this relationship, by ultra-submitting for very little return. You sometimes sound like you are in sunk cost fallacy mode with her, like you've put in so much already, getting out now would be wrong. It isn't wrong to leave a bad situation.

At some point, you have to decide that this deal, where you ultra-submit and put in tons, just to get nothing back, just doesn't work for you anymore and you want a better deal.

I think you have gotten to the green part, not yet to the blue part. What would it take to help get you to the blue part?

• What do you need to become willing and able to accept that a "raw deal and poor treatment" is the only deal she's ever going to offer you?
• What do you need to become willing and able to decide you no longer accept a "raw deal and poor treatment" from her?
• What do you need to become willing and able to accept that it might be better for you and the kids to get out of this awful situation?
• What do you need to become willing and able to accept that it might be better for you to look elsewhere for love?

Have your thoughts gone there and defined those things yet? It's tough to process, and I'm truly sorry.

Remember you have worth, dignity and value. You don't deserve to be treated this way.

I hope you finish processing. I hope you get to the blue part. I hope you conclude that a healthier way of going is to stop all this ultra-submitting and get you and the kids away from the crazy.

You might not be ready for love with a new person, but at least get that far along so your tank can stop being drained.

 

[vinsanity0]

Are you willing to stick it out and catch your wife when she falls? That is the question. There is no doubt in my mind that she will fall. Kip is a fake. Internet fantasy world rarely transitions to reality.

 

[opalescent]

I also saw the same thing that Magdlyn saw in Inthedark's posts. I would read the posts and think, hmm, in another context, one with full consent and ethical treatment of everyone - Inthedark might enjoy being cuckolded or humiliated. It's a common kink. Inthedark has stated that he is not into those things and I believe him. But bringing it up as a possibility, as an explanation for some of the behavior of Inthedark is relevant. A submissive desperately trying to please an abusive dominant looks like anyone desperately trying to please an abusive partner.

Are you in a D/s relationship with your wife? If not, then why are you submitting to her?

I fear you are stuck in fantasy about your marriage. You keep trying to claim that 'If this happened, all would be well' -- if the rules were kept (they weren't and aren't); if your wife would renegotiate (not going to happen); if the D/s with Kip went away (it isn't, and even if it did, your marriage would still be over). I'm sorry. This fantasy is harming you and enabling you to stay in a toxic, abusive relationship. Stop being a survivor. Surviving in this way has become maladaptive behavior for you at this point. It will kill you emotionally and mentally and will make worse any physical health issues you have.

And you are teaching your children that this is what marriage, love and relationships are all about. Surviving, coping, giving up everything to someone else who then denigrates that sacrifice. They see you 'surviving'. They see you coping in the same way you had to cope as a child. And they will learn the same maladaptive strategies you did. You did the best you could as a child. No shame in that. But don't force those lessons on your children. They need better. And you deserve better.

Your marriage is over. Your wife is no longer the person she once was (if indeed she was ever that person). She will keep treating you like shit as long as you are around her.

 

[Tinwen]

Actually, I would say that I am adaptable. One of the skills that I learned at a very young age was how to adapt and be the person that others wanted me to be. This helped me get through a very rough childhood. ...By the time I was in high school I counted this as a skill. It helped me get along with just about everyone. ... I do submit to my wife and currently I am in a state of total submission to her. I have adapted to my current situation. I have had a talent of putting myself into situations in which things generally turn out well for me. One of the reasons my current situation is so rough is because I can't figure out what to do to make the situation work out.

I see. You always coped by doing exactly what is required and don't use direct ways of problem solving and taking action, because not showing obvious resistance was the only way to go in the past. So you learned not to hold boundaries, because you can just sneak out of everything with time and clever shortcuts.

Inthedark, do you believe there could be a better relationship out there for you? With someone else? Or do you believe this is the best you can get?

While I haven't completely given up the possibility, that your marriage could "work" again in the way it did, I think if you can acknowledge the possibility that there is something more, you could find a better relationship than the one you ever had with your wife. I find it a common experience, that as we grow, the quality of our partners grows, as well.

 

[PinkPig]

I find it a common experience, that as we grow, the quality of our partners grows as well.

This. You've outgrown your wife, ITD. Divorce is painful in the short-term, but staying in an abusive marriage, hoping that it'll get back to a better place, isn't living. It's just surviving. Time to show your kids what it looks like to really live, to be happy and free. Because, regardless of how well you think you're sheltering them from the dysfunction, you're not. They're learning how to treat their future partners and what type of treatment to accept from future partners.

 

[aussiekate]

ITD, you're getting some awfully good advice from a bunch of people.

I don't think you have a humiliation kink.

I agree with those who are saying you are accepting the unacceptable. You are showing your children that no matter how badly your spouse treats you, you should suck it up. Is that really what you want them to learn that marriage is?

You deserve better. Your kids deserve better. Even your wife deserves better. She needs to learn that there are consequences for treating people so badly, and that taking people for granted is disrespectful and leads to bad outcomes.

This is an all-round unhealthy situation, and she shows no signs of wanting to improve it, and thus your only option is to remove yourself and your children from it.

I know that that's really hard to hear, and I know you are saying to yourself, "But they don't know me, and they don't know how much I love my wife, and they don't get how hard it would be", and a million other things.

Despite only having a tiny window into your life, I really care about you, and my heart aches for you.

You, and your kids, deserve better.

And you can have better
Once you start insisting upon it.

My very warmest and sincerest best wishes to you.