straighthusbandbiwife
Member
Mod Note: The first post in this thread is unedited; other posts from the OP have been hidden per his request.
Hello. First time posting here. A year ago, I posted on Reddit a single time to get some advice. Unfortuantely, instead of anything helpful I got my head ripped off by the participants in that poly thread. I'm hoping this will be a safer community where a husband like me who's wrestling with some things yet is sincerely trying to move forward in good faith will get some thoughtful feedback instead of character assassination.
It's kind of hard to know where to start, so here goes nothing:
My wife and I have been happily married for five years. We're also parents. We deeply love one another. I feel like there's a high level of mutual trust and we're both 100% committed to our marriage. During the pandemic, we've only grown closer. Open and honest communication wasn't always our strong suit, but we've worked hard at that and made a ton of progress. We also have good and improving sexual chemistry. She has a very successful career. I'm an ordained pastor but with Covid became a stay-at-home dad for the time being. Both of us grew up in religiously fundamentalist homes with all the garbage that entails. While we've managed to keep our faith, you can imagine that it has required a ton of painful deconstruction and difficult reconstruction.
Having been repressed by her Purity Culture background, I was my wife's first everything: going out on a date, holding hands, kissing, making out, having sex, etc. Shortly after we got married, she slowly came to realize she's bisexual. This was completely not on my radar. I thought I'd signed up to be completely equal partners in a traditionally monogamous Christian marriage. At that point, even watching porn together was pushing our upper-limits. Having experienced recurrent childhood sexual abuse myself followed by a sexless first marriage--come to find out she was romantically attracted to men but sexually attracted to women--this whole sexual realm of life has never been particularly healthy or safe for me. That's why I tried hard to lean into compassion and understanding when I got this news. This has ben an uphill battle for me, but I didn't want her to experience a lifetime of sexual repression.
A year or so later we visited a swinger club in another city. That night she moved from bi-curious to bi-confirmed while making out with a beautiful brunette woman her age. To be honest, it was amazing. The sheer beauty of my wife making out with another woman really turned me on and I couldn't have been happier for her. We took our time and, after doing nothing more for a few years other than conversations + therapy, we spent summer 2019 secretly exploring the swinger lifestyle to fulfill her girl-girl needs. There were some ups and downs to be sure. It took some trial and error not to mention some professional counseling from a sex-positive therapist, but we agree that on the whole these were good experiences for us. No regrets. Not only did I feel a ton of compersion for my wife, but she felt sexually whole, our communication improved, and my own stifled sexuality was unexpectedly given fresh life. Win-win-win.
However, I feel like I've already pushed myself to the maximum I'm willing and able to go. While being a swinger has been wonderful and fulfilling in many unexpected ways, the truth is this transition into non-monogamy has also been acutely difficult for me. I'm a pretty cerebral guy. This has required me to not only rethink my values and worldview, but to potentially jeopardize my professional life. I've sincerely tried to be loving of my wife and supportive of her felt-need to explore/express her bisexuality but, as we explicitly agreed before going down this road, I really have no desire whatever to rebuild my whole life about this lifestyle. I'm not judging how anyone else lives, but for me non-monogamy is something to secretly do from time and time and not a way of life.
The trouble is, since December of 2019 my wife has been increasingly wanting to explore polyamory by having parallel romantic relationships with women. Again, I'm not judging anything as good or bad, right or wrong. This just is not what I want. It's not how I'm wired. I'm more than content being emotionally and romantically monogamous while secretly doing a little monogam-ish swinging 3-5 times a year. I've tried to be open-minded, though. We've now down 17 months of sex therapy about this and, as was asked of me, have studied up: devouring all the major recommended books, reading countless articles, listening to a ton of podcasts. Obviously I'm still learning, but I feel like I've pretty well got my mind around the concepts and the terminology. Still, this is just not what I want. Yet it is what my beloved wants.
OK, we've now arrived at the part where I hope I don't get my head ripped off. Please be gentle.
After the therapy wasn't going anywhere, I privately consulted with a philosopher I know at a major university with specialization in sexual ethics. She helped me understand that under the broad category of "ethical non-monogamy" there are actually two quite distinct sets of sexual ethics for swinging and polyamory. Again, I'm not saying either is good or bad, right or wrong, healthy or unhealthy. They're just different ethical models. Yet, personally, I only feel comfortable with the ethics of swinging. As just one example, I only feel comfortable with us having sexual experiences with other partners if these are shared experiences we have together in the same room. That approach flies in the swinging community, but in the poly community it's widely seeing as inappropriate.
After 4 outstanding years, I now feel like my trust for our sex-positive therapist is waning. She's continually pushing me to have an "openness to polyamory" and to "give your wife this gift" while subtly yet steadily suggesting that I'm growing uncooperative, controlling, distrustful, and close-minded. I just don't buy it:
Honestly, I'm getting to the point where I feel like all their pushing is starting to backfire. I feel like my boundaries are being pushed instead of being honored, but because I'm a man for some reason that's OK? Seems jankey. Going back to my own history of sexual abuse and trauma, that doesn't sit well with me at all. I love my wife dearly. I understand and, as much as I'm able, sympathize with her frustration about not being able to have her bisexuality fully integrated in every area of her life. I get it. That sucks. But where is the balance here? Where is her concern for my feelings and my professional well-being? Sometimes things aren't ideal and you have to compromise. I feel like I've already done that as much as I can, so where is the reciprocity?
Anyway, this most certainly is NOT meant to be an attack upon polyamory as a way of life and relationships. As this point, I'm simply no longer able to understand where my wife and therapist are coming from. I don't understand what they don't understand. There's a growing disconnect. I've tried to be humble and open-minded, but maybe I really am still missing something? Maybe I am being a jerk despite not trying to be. That's why I'm posting here. I wanted to see if, perhaps, there's some piece of the puzzle that I'm simply not seeing. I'm coming to the end of my patience.
Thank you.
Hello. First time posting here. A year ago, I posted on Reddit a single time to get some advice. Unfortuantely, instead of anything helpful I got my head ripped off by the participants in that poly thread. I'm hoping this will be a safer community where a husband like me who's wrestling with some things yet is sincerely trying to move forward in good faith will get some thoughtful feedback instead of character assassination.
It's kind of hard to know where to start, so here goes nothing:
My wife and I have been happily married for five years. We're also parents. We deeply love one another. I feel like there's a high level of mutual trust and we're both 100% committed to our marriage. During the pandemic, we've only grown closer. Open and honest communication wasn't always our strong suit, but we've worked hard at that and made a ton of progress. We also have good and improving sexual chemistry. She has a very successful career. I'm an ordained pastor but with Covid became a stay-at-home dad for the time being. Both of us grew up in religiously fundamentalist homes with all the garbage that entails. While we've managed to keep our faith, you can imagine that it has required a ton of painful deconstruction and difficult reconstruction.
Having been repressed by her Purity Culture background, I was my wife's first everything: going out on a date, holding hands, kissing, making out, having sex, etc. Shortly after we got married, she slowly came to realize she's bisexual. This was completely not on my radar. I thought I'd signed up to be completely equal partners in a traditionally monogamous Christian marriage. At that point, even watching porn together was pushing our upper-limits. Having experienced recurrent childhood sexual abuse myself followed by a sexless first marriage--come to find out she was romantically attracted to men but sexually attracted to women--this whole sexual realm of life has never been particularly healthy or safe for me. That's why I tried hard to lean into compassion and understanding when I got this news. This has ben an uphill battle for me, but I didn't want her to experience a lifetime of sexual repression.
A year or so later we visited a swinger club in another city. That night she moved from bi-curious to bi-confirmed while making out with a beautiful brunette woman her age. To be honest, it was amazing. The sheer beauty of my wife making out with another woman really turned me on and I couldn't have been happier for her. We took our time and, after doing nothing more for a few years other than conversations + therapy, we spent summer 2019 secretly exploring the swinger lifestyle to fulfill her girl-girl needs. There were some ups and downs to be sure. It took some trial and error not to mention some professional counseling from a sex-positive therapist, but we agree that on the whole these were good experiences for us. No regrets. Not only did I feel a ton of compersion for my wife, but she felt sexually whole, our communication improved, and my own stifled sexuality was unexpectedly given fresh life. Win-win-win.
However, I feel like I've already pushed myself to the maximum I'm willing and able to go. While being a swinger has been wonderful and fulfilling in many unexpected ways, the truth is this transition into non-monogamy has also been acutely difficult for me. I'm a pretty cerebral guy. This has required me to not only rethink my values and worldview, but to potentially jeopardize my professional life. I've sincerely tried to be loving of my wife and supportive of her felt-need to explore/express her bisexuality but, as we explicitly agreed before going down this road, I really have no desire whatever to rebuild my whole life about this lifestyle. I'm not judging how anyone else lives, but for me non-monogamy is something to secretly do from time and time and not a way of life.
The trouble is, since December of 2019 my wife has been increasingly wanting to explore polyamory by having parallel romantic relationships with women. Again, I'm not judging anything as good or bad, right or wrong. This just is not what I want. It's not how I'm wired. I'm more than content being emotionally and romantically monogamous while secretly doing a little monogam-ish swinging 3-5 times a year. I've tried to be open-minded, though. We've now down 17 months of sex therapy about this and, as was asked of me, have studied up: devouring all the major recommended books, reading countless articles, listening to a ton of podcasts. Obviously I'm still learning, but I feel like I've pretty well got my mind around the concepts and the terminology. Still, this is just not what I want. Yet it is what my beloved wants.
OK, we've now arrived at the part where I hope I don't get my head ripped off. Please be gentle.
After the therapy wasn't going anywhere, I privately consulted with a philosopher I know at a major university with specialization in sexual ethics. She helped me understand that under the broad category of "ethical non-monogamy" there are actually two quite distinct sets of sexual ethics for swinging and polyamory. Again, I'm not saying either is good or bad, right or wrong, healthy or unhealthy. They're just different ethical models. Yet, personally, I only feel comfortable with the ethics of swinging. As just one example, I only feel comfortable with us having sexual experiences with other partners if these are shared experiences we have together in the same room. That approach flies in the swinging community, but in the poly community it's widely seeing as inappropriate.
After 4 outstanding years, I now feel like my trust for our sex-positive therapist is waning. She's continually pushing me to have an "openness to polyamory" and to "give your wife this gift" while subtly yet steadily suggesting that I'm growing uncooperative, controlling, distrustful, and close-minded. I just don't buy it:
- I've already not only upended my entire ethical and religious belief system but also jeopardized my career to support my wife's bisexuality. Why is anything less than 100% of what she wants uncooperative? That seems absurd to me. That seems like a false dichotomy to me.
- I've told my wife that I'm down with her have VERY emotionally close relationships with women up to and including a non-sexual QPR. I've even said I'm comfortable with things like, say, 4-5 weekend trips a year without me while I stay home and take care of the baby. How in that world could that possibly be controlling and distrusting?
- Aristotle once said, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." I've thoroughly done that with my research of polyamory, so how could that possibly be perceived as close-minded? It's just not what I want out of life and marriage.
Honestly, I'm getting to the point where I feel like all their pushing is starting to backfire. I feel like my boundaries are being pushed instead of being honored, but because I'm a man for some reason that's OK? Seems jankey. Going back to my own history of sexual abuse and trauma, that doesn't sit well with me at all. I love my wife dearly. I understand and, as much as I'm able, sympathize with her frustration about not being able to have her bisexuality fully integrated in every area of her life. I get it. That sucks. But where is the balance here? Where is her concern for my feelings and my professional well-being? Sometimes things aren't ideal and you have to compromise. I feel like I've already done that as much as I can, so where is the reciprocity?
Anyway, this most certainly is NOT meant to be an attack upon polyamory as a way of life and relationships. As this point, I'm simply no longer able to understand where my wife and therapist are coming from. I don't understand what they don't understand. There's a growing disconnect. I've tried to be humble and open-minded, but maybe I really am still missing something? Maybe I am being a jerk despite not trying to be. That's why I'm posting here. I wanted to see if, perhaps, there's some piece of the puzzle that I'm simply not seeing. I'm coming to the end of my patience.
Thank you.
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