Not on same page about bisexual wife exploring polyamory

[straighthusbandbiwife]

While people in the poly community usually give lip service to the validity of monogamy for those who define their sexual orientation in that way, almost without exception they seem to assume all sorts of negative emotional motivations from the partner who’s hesitant when an established monogamous couple isn’t on the same page about transitioning into polyamory. Seriously, every single time they launch into this same spiel about fear and jealously. It’s like they’ve all been brainwashed into thinking the same way. For the life of me, I don’t understand why it’s so hard for such people to fathom that someone who disagrees with the polyamorous lifestyle might not be scared of something, but rather has honest-to-goodness difference of beliefs, convictions, principles, values, and goals. No doubt there are a lot of people—maybe most people—who are chiefly motivated by their emotion in this, but it is possible to be driven by intellect, too. To be clear, I’m not saying that I’ve in all ways and at all times acted in a rational way like a Vulcan or something. What I am saying is I try to synthesize the intellectual with the emotional, but I usually trust the intellectual side a little more by default.

 

[straighthusbandbiwife]

Another thing I keep seeing and hearing is that polyamorous people really don’t get a lot of alone time. In order to make their various relationships work, they keep their schedules jam packed and are almost always spending time with one partner or another. Putting aside the whole question of whether that’s psychologically healthy, this makes sense to me if the personis an extrovert—maybe even an ambivert—but I don’t see how it works at all if you’re a strong introvert like wifey. She is not shy in the way some people misunderstand introversion, but she definitely needs quiet time alone to process and recharge. That’s not a want but a need. Moreover, that need becomes more intense and more frequent as there’s more social output. There’s a direct correlation. I must ask the question then: where is that recharge time going tocome from, especially with a baby now? Say she starts seeing her other romantic partner once or twice a week. Maybe it’s 2-3 outings a week if she has 2 romantic partners. Meanwhile, she’s also fulfilling her existing responsibilities at work, working out, going to therapy sessions, attending church events, seeing other friends, reading books, listening to podcasts, watching movies and TV shows, playing the guitar, etc. I can pretty much guarantee that her introverted me-time is either going to be carved from our time together or her portion of the house projects, which then makes basically all the chores fall on me. (In our marriage, our arrangement is that she earns most of the money and I take care of most of the house responsibilities. I prefer for a house to look “lived in,” but because she grew up in a hoarder house and we have continual house guests, I agreed to keep the house cleaner than almost anyone’s home I’ve ever seen.) Either way, I’m the one making the sacrifice to enable her other relationship(s). I’m just plain not down with that scenario playing out. That feels like I’m being hosed.

 

[straighthusbandbiwife]

During my research I keep coming across this statement that polyamory requires relational efficiency in order to split time and energy between different partners. Alongside that is this assumption that’s a good thing. People in the poly lifestyle really seem to value the rush of that relational precision. Here’s the thing: I don’t. I just plain do not value efficiency in the context of relationships. I think American society is way too frenetic, pragmatic, and efficient, which leads us to be incredibly superficial. While I get the need to adapt in professional settings, I push back in personal settings. I strive for a slow, contemplative life with deep, meaningful relationships. This is not merely a preference but a core value. So, I have no desire for wifey to try optimizing our time together so she can efficiently split her life between two (or more) romantic partners. As just one example, I certainly don’t mind a little texting here and there but I hate it when I’m investing quality time with someone and the whole time they’re scatterbrained because they’re trying to multitask by texting someone else. The person is physically there, but they’re not consciously present in the moment. That feels downright disrespectful to me. Yeah, I’m a bit of a Luddite but I hate that state of perpetual distraction. That’s exactly the kind of unfocused “efficiency” in social relationships I despise, and it deeply concerns me with polyamory.

 

[straighthusbandbiwife]

In this community there’s a lot of talk about one’s “poly saturation level.” As I understand it, that’s how many relationships a person can effectively have and sustain at one time. It’s not so much about how much fun one is capable of having, but rather how many people one person can be connected with, and emotionally attuned to, at a given time. Any more than that leaves one feeling more disconnected than connected, more exhausted than exciting. Well, pretty sure my level is 1 and I’m not at all convinced that wifey's level is more than that. All the evidence suggests that she even struggles to be attuned to what's going on in my life when she's just hanging out with a friend a few nights a week. Suddenly she gets short with me, critical of my actions, and starts to assume motives to my behavior that simply fail to take into account what she knows about me, my personality, my personal history, etc. She gets excited about other people and suddenly I get treated like a jerk or a putz even though I haven't changed a damn thing.

 

[Evie]

"It seems to me polyamory would 1) cut back on our quality time together, 2) reduce our discretionary income, 3) put more of the burden of parenting on my shoulders, 4) make it harder to be emotionally attuned to one another, 5) jeopardize my career if ever we were outed, 6) make our home life more unstable for our family, 7) eat up more of your limited emotional energy, and 8) violate my beliefs about the nature of marriage. Are you willing to at least explain how any of that is inaccurate from your perspective?"

This really lays it out as to why you don't want poly. I am guessing Wife and Therapist have been trying to dismantle each of these objections and convince you that you are wrong about them.

Because, as Inaniel said, everyone polys differently, I don't think there's actually any way to be absolutely sure that at least one of these won't become very real for you if you were to take the leap.

For me, some of those are inaccurate, and some irrelevant (e.g. parenting). But I could give you anecdotes about how poly can improve quality time - namely that spending quality time together becomes a more deliberate act rather than simply that spouse will be home when I get there. I, and many others, find ourselves deliberately dating our nesting partners, who may be a marriage partner, to ensure that that relationship is properly nurtured. A fairly new member here went through the opening up transition only to discover that he had a much better quality of life all round after the initial challenges to his worldview.

As for the income thing, my husband and I get our own discretionary income as well as joint discretionary income. Then it's irrelevant if I'm using mine to buy a book, see a friend for a coffee or a lover for a date. It's not impacting his or our discretionary income.

Career wise, I hear you. I'm not out to my (nearly former) employer and I won't be to my new employer. If I get outed, it could cause problems, but luckily I have a good union. Still, if the gossip got too bad I could have resign, so I generally avoid dating right in my town, just as I'd also avoid a workplace romance, and Puck is a very long distance relationship. I can be openly poly around friend groups who I know are cool with it, but much more discreet around those who aren't. Yes, sometimes I feel a bit frustrated that I can't be totally authentically myself 100% of the time, but this is a societal issue as much as a personal one and I'm just glad I've got here to be able to blog, and friends and partners I can be completely authentic around. In short, out/closeted isn't an all or nothing thing either.

But this doesn't and isn't trying to address your full list.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest heading over to Life Stories and Blogs and reading some of those. They often show the hard parts as well as the positive sides to poly and are less of a conversation. And they're just a nice way to get to know some of those different ways of polying.

 

[straighthusbandbiwife]

It seems to be common knowledge within the polyamorous community that this lifestyle takes a lot of trial and error to get right. As one popular podcast host put it, “Polyamory is an acquired skill. You should expect to make a lot of mistakes. It’s a tough road at the beginning, especially if you don’t study up beforehand... In my experience, the learning curve can be cut down to as little as two or three years if a couple sees a poly-friendly therapist, hires a polylifestyle coach, reads a lot of books, listens to a lot of podcasts, builds a solid poly community, and has a lot of discussions with partners. It just takes a while to figure out how to have simultaneous health relationships.” And she seemed to think two years was the bare minimum timeframe with a maximum utilization of available resources. By her own acknowledgement, it took her 14 years to really figure it out. Uh, excuse me? I’m sorry, but I have no desire to sign up for years and years of incessant drama. This is not a skillset I particularly want to spend precious years of my life carefully honing. No thank you.

 

[straighthusbandbiwife]

After all this research, I still I can’t shake the thought that we’d be knowingly signing up for a lot of soap opera drama in our lives, which just seems stupid. I know some people thrive off that kind of emotional roller coaster, but I’ve been flat out annoyed by it literally as long as I canr emember. I remember back to church youth group hearing hour after hour of these high school girls talking about their relationship melodrama. Rather than wanting to resolve the problems, they seemed to relish them. That annoyed me to no end back in my teens and I feel the exact same way about polyamorous social drama now in my mid-30s. I know that not all drama is bad. I get that the whole basis of romance is the feelings of positive emotional and social drama but, geez, the whole polyamorous lifestyle just seems wicked stressful to me personally.

 

[straighthusbandbiwife]

I have nearly inexhaustible intellectual energy but precious little emotional energy. Part of that is personality. Another part of it is current life circumstances. Still another part is difficult stuff from the past I’m still healing from. But the point is, I only have so much emotional energy to go around and I’ve learned to be quite careful where I allocate it. From everything I’ve heard and read, healthy polyamory requires a married couple to do a ton of processing. Honestly, I have no desire whatsoever to help wifey through all that. The reason isn’t that I subscribe to the emotionally pressed BS of toxic masculinity. It’s that wifey is a little different from most women. For her that kind of emotional processing is rather arduous. She has been getting a whole lot better at this since going through trauma therapy but her default remains to stay inside her inner-sanctum. So I perceive two options. First, I could use up most of my emotional energy trying to help her process through all these feelings about her other partner. Second, I could just let her do her own thing without knowing about it. Both seem like terrible options,though. The former seems like an exhausting experience that would leave me feeling emotionally depleted. The latter would leave me feeling disconnected from her and endlessly wondering what she’s thinking, feeling, and experiencing. Either way, I don’t feel like I have the emotional bandwidth for her and I to have the conversations needed for processing through healthy polyamory. I’ve made vows to always be there to help my wife work through normal life stuff, but I don’t particularly care to help her process through feelings about other women. Sorry not sorry, but I’m not down with signing up for that kind of emotional labor.

 

[straighthusbandbiwife]

A mantra of many people in the various non-monogamous communities is “Never say never.” It’s encouraged to allow yourself to be open to new experiences because you never really know if you’ll want to experience something later even if you’re confident that it’s not something you want right now. It’s about keeping an open mind. I get why people say that yet, to be honest, I find that troubling. It reflects this ingrained belief that couples in this lifestyle will continually be pushing the envelope. It seems to me this creates the implicit expectation that boundaries are fluid, consent is negotiable, inconsistent messages are acceptable, and coercion can be sexy. Yeah, no. I’m not cool with that. That creates a profoundly unsafe environment. It makes me feel like nothing I say is taken seriously or respected as a hard-limit.

 

[straighthusbandbiwife]

It’s not difficult for me to imagine wifey loving more than one person at a time. I could easily see her simultaneously being in love with me and another woman or two. What I question is the quality of those relationships with all the logistical constraints. Given that there’s only so much time, energy, money, and other resources to go around, it seems like you’re having to choose between depth and breadth. Nobody comes right out and says it, but that’s definitely been the implicit message I’ve gotten from all these poly books and podcasts. Look, that’s cool if they prefer the variety over the substance, but that ain’t me. I want the depth. A thriving marital relationship with profound depth is one of core things I want out of life. I’d much rather have a single outstanding relationship with my wife than spread myself thin with three mediocre romantic and sexual relationships with different women. I guess I’ve just always been the kind of guy who’d take a single “A” where I master the course material over 3 “B-“s where I get the credit. The thing is, wifey was the same way in school. I seriously wonder if she has internalized that this is likely the trade-off she would be making in order to pull off a polyamorous lifestyle.

 

[straighthusbandbiwife]

Final comment I'm copying and pasting:

I’ve heard it said that polyamory is about being able to feel intense emotions toward multiple people a time. One podcast host said, “It’s about a full acceptance that one cannot get everything they need from another person.” I want to make my perspective about that clear. I’m not saying that I’m hardwired as a strict monogamist who’s only able to deeply loving one person at a time. Pretty sure I do have a greater capacity than that. I’m also not saying spouses can or should provide all of each other’s needs. That’s a growing cultural assumption of which I’m quite critical. However, what I am saying is that this just isn’t what I want out of life, I don’t see how it would be logistically feasible, I have some strong philosophical disagreements, I have absolutely no interest in going blind into the unknown and seeing what happens when we get there, etc. I truly do want to be a sex-positive influence who support his wife’s bisexuality, but Ifeel like polyamory is a bridge too far. it just isn’t something I want, need, or feel comfortable with either of us exploring. In the end, maybe I’m just more in the “ambiamory” camp where I have the capacity for both monogamy and polyamory, but a combination of my beliefs plus the logistical realities of our life together causes me to prefer romantic monogamy with some sexual openness through the occasional Friends With Benefits / swinging on the side.

 

[straighthusbandbiwife]

This really lays it out as to why you don't want poly.

I hadn't ever managed to distill it down to succinctly before. Glad it makes sense.

I am guessing Wife and Therapist have been trying to dismantle each of these objections and convince you that you are wrong about them.

Well, it's more like my wifey is being largely quiet but when she does speak she's encouraging the therapist to continue trying to dismantle these objections.... *sigh*... I'm not doing that justice / explaining that well... I don't think it's quite that overt... I don't know how to explain this increasingly odd social dynamic. Wifey definitely seems to think that if there's a chance of persuading me otherwise, the therapist is her best shot. And, look, I lean heavy into curiosity and try hard to in good faith consider different perspectives. But recently, yeah, it has kinda felt like 2-on-1... Again, I don't feel like I'm explaining this weird dynamic very well... Am I making any sense or am I just incoherently rambling?

Because, as Inaniel said, everyone polys differently, I don't think there's actually any way to be absolutely sure that at least one of these won't become very real for you if you were to take the leap.

Right, right.

For me, some of those are inaccurate, and some irrelevant (e.g. parenting).

Gotcha.

But I could give you anecdotes about how poly can improve quality time - namely that spending quality time together becomes a more deliberate act rather than simply that spouse will be home when I get there. I, and many others, find ourselves deliberately dating our nesting partners, who may be a marriage partner, to ensure that that relationship is properly nurtured.

Interestingly enough, this has been one of the good things that has come out of the couples' therapy. Before and now kinda-sorta after the pandemic I've strongly encouraged her to spend more time with friends outside of the house and, yes, you're right that it has improved our mutual intentionality about the time we do spend together. There are limits to that, though, especially with a baby and standing commitments at church... Anyway, what I'm trying to say is I don't think you're off your rocker on this one. I get it. But what she wants is close friendships AND romantic relationships. I'm just like, "Um, babe? When are you planning to be home and taking care of our child?"

A fairly new member here went through the opening up transition only to discover that he had a much better quality of life all round after the initial challenges to his worldview.

There are areas in which that doesn't surprise me.

As for the income thing, my husband and I get our own discretionary income as well as joint discretionary income. Then it's irrelevant if I'm using mine to buy a book, see a friend for a coffee or a lover for a date. It's not impacting his or our discretionary income.

Yes, in our budget we each get our own weekly allotment of "fun money" that we completely do with as we please. However, it's pretty low right now because we had a baby, I lost my job, and money is tight. She literally asked for us to take some money from our date night budget to pay for this. Admittedly this was not my best or wisest moment, but I simply replied, "Da fuck? You have to be kidding me." Also, yeah, I admit it. IF she started spending her fun money on another woman or women and stopped spending money on me--no doubt while expecting me to continue spending my fun on/with her--I'd get a little ornery.

Career wise, I hear you. I'm not out to my (nearly former) employer and I won't be to my new employer. If I get outed, it could cause problems, but luckily I have a good union. Still, if the gossip got too bad I could have resign, so I generally avoid dating right in my town, just as I'd also avoid a workplace romance, and Puck is a very long distance relationship.

I understand. For me, if I get outed my career is over. Full stop. I cannot recall if it was you or someone else, but someone encouraged me to start thinking about another profession. Um, guys? This isn't like a 18-month online program. I did 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of grad work, I'm in my late-30s now, and I love my field. Pardon my candor, but why in the flying fuck would I want to throw all that away?

I can be openly poly around friend groups who I know are cool with it, but much more discreet around those who aren't. Yes, sometimes I feel a bit frustrated that I can't be totally authentically myself 100% of the time, but this is a societal issue as much as a personal one and I'm just glad I've got here to be able to blog, and friends and partners I can be completely authentic around. In short, out/closeted isn't an all or nothing thing either.

Yeah, see, I've told wifey that I'd be OK if we developed a small group of swinger and/or poly friends with whom she can be more socially open BUT I do not feel comfortable with integrating those people into our vanilla social lives. She feels this inhibits her from being "fully integrated." Well, yes, it does. Sorry. But that's life. Imagine we were sipping whiskey and playing Cards Against Humanity with a mixed group of vanilla friends and swinger/poly friends. A guy then accidentally hints too strongly at our being ethically non-monogamous. My life would be FUCKED. So, no, I don't want these worlds integrated. Personally, I feel like it's an awful big compromise that I'm willing to make to consciously develop a whole other group of friends so that wifey can have a social network where she feels more able to be herself.

But this doesn't and isn't trying to address your full list.

Right, right.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest heading over to Life Stories and Blogs and reading some of those. They often show the hard parts as well as the positive sides to poly and are less of a conversation. And they're just a nice way to get to know some of those different ways of polying.

Yeah, I have been reading a little bit over there but thanks for reinforcing the tip.

 

[Evie]

You write "staunch autonomy" like it is somehow a total disregard of the marriage in totality. I for one, don't practice that as a part of my polyamory. After all... amory means love, and I love Adam and don't use poly as an excuse to tromp all over his feelings and opinions. There are times I say to him (like at the Easter festival we went to), "what level of out are we here, and what is your preference if I meet someone new here that I develop an interest in?" His reply at first was, "let me see who's there and get a feel for the general vibe first, I'll let you know by such and such a time." (They were largely his old friends that he hadn't seen in about 15 years, before we even met). We also have our own version of a "messy person list" - those who we don't consent to each other dating. And sometimes people might get added to the messy list as I//he/we meet them because we often do talk about them with each other very early on. Autonomy doesn't negate communication and also isn't a synonym for selfishness.

However, sometimes when I'm explaining poly to people/coming out to my friends and family, I say to them that what poly means to me is that I don't shut off possibilities for future connections (romantic/loving/sexual) just because I am also married. I LOVE my husband, I want to grow old with my husband, and do a whole lot of exciting things between now and the dementia ward. I chose to marry him because I value this style of life partnership and our spiritual connection. But I'm also a people person, and my people are generally males, and I like to feel love for them, and I like to express that physically. And now, I'm in a second, committed relationship that is for all practicalities, secondary, but emotionally, I don't really draw a distinction. I will lean on Puck when work is hard as much, sometimes more because of work schedules, as I will lean on Adam. And honestly, it makes me a better partner to Adam when I've already unloaded my crappy day onto Puck first lol.

I can see that you see your wife having a second relationship as something that will take away from your relationship with her. There is probably a lot of personal stories to the contrary, but I respect that you don't want to try and fail.

 

[Evie]

But what she wants is close friendships AND romantic relationships. I'm just like, "Um, babe? When are you planning to be home and taking care of our child?"

That's a very fair question. Is she perhaps not feeling as enamored with motherhood as she hoped? Any post natal depression manifesting as simply getting away from the baby? Does she feel like she never really bonded with baby and would prefer to wait to do that bonding when the messiest parts of infancy are over? Or something else? After all, it's a little surprising that a new-ish mother is quite so willingly absent.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm not doing that justice / explaining that well... I don't think it's quite that overt... I don't know how to explain this increasingly odd social dynamic. Wifey definitely seems to think that if there's a chance of persuading me otherwise, the therapist is her best shot. And, look, I lean heavy into curiosity and try hard to in good faith consider different perspectives. But recently, yeah, it has kinda felt like 2-on-1... Again, I don't feel like I'm explaining this weird dynamic very well... Am I making any sense or am I just incoherently rambling?

I get that therapy is starting to feel like the two of them are ganging up on you to embrace poly even though you don't want any.

When you DID what you were asked. You were asked to do the work of consideration. You decided it's fine for other people, but you don't want any poly.

While people in the poly community usually give lip service to the validity of monogamy for those who define their sexual orientation in that way, almost without exception they seem to assume all sorts of negative emotional motivations from the partner who’s hesitant when an established monogamous couple isn’t on the same page about transitioning into polyamory. Seriously, every single time they launch into this same spiel about fear and jealously. It’s like they’ve all been brainwashed into thinking the same way.

What are you listening to or reading? Jeez. There's is nothing wrong with wanting monogamy, and there doesn't have to be "fear and jealousy" about it. Some people just like monogamy better.

It isn't like poly is "more evolved" or "the one true way" or whatever. It's just another model, and some people like it. Some don't.

Honestly, I just plain fail to see the reciprocity in this. How is my life not just getting significantly worse? Having experienced a shit ton of abuse and neglect in my life, I'm just not taking one for the team to make others happy. Those days are over. Hopefully that doesn't sound I'm being a selfish asshole. I want my wife to be happy and whole, yes, but the cost-benefit analysis had damn well better work out so that a) I'm not just getting hosed out of the deal AND b) our daughter's life is less stable.

Of course it makes sense. What people (poly or not) would want to sign up for getting hosed and making their child's life nuts?

You are not being a selfish asshole to worry about your well being and that of the kid and how wife polyshipping would impact you.

If this is what you have been getting...

"Want to stop swinging?"

"NO!"

"OK. So, are you willing to be pretty much be polyamorous except for the sex?"

"NO!"

"Got it. Are you willing to be polyamorous but only have sex with me present?"

"NO!"

"So, would it be incorrect to say you're not at all willing to try and find a creative compromise?"

*silence*

"Can you at least tell me how polyamory doesn't make my life distinctly worse?"

"What do you mean?"

"It seems to me polyamory would 1) cut back on our quality time together, 2) reduce our discretionary income, 3) put more of the burden of parenting on my shoulders, 4) make it harder to be emotionally attuned to one another, 5) jeopardize my career if ever we were outed, 6) make our home life more unstable for our family, 7) eat up more of your limited emotional energy, and 8) violate my beliefs about the nature of marriage. Are you willing to at least explain how any of that is inaccurate from your perspective?"

"I've come around to you having another partner, too."

"I don't want another partner. I never wanted another partner. I love you. I'm committed to you. You're the only life partner I want."

*awkward lull*

... then I think you have been more than fair, and more than willing to consider. You can be done considering now.

The stuff in bold is not being addressed. You have valid concerns.

She's not esp being clear on what open models she wants to pursue AND how it is supposed to work out for you both at this new baby parenting time of life logistically. Or how your concerns will be addressed.

I'm not into drama. I would not be interested in signing up for wackadoo, esp if the return on my investment would be poor. As you put it "the math doesn't add up."

If you already struggle with division of labor/responsibilities, getting enough time together with wife, etc? You need your own days where she deals with the baby so YOU can have a night off to rest, do your hobbies, be with friends, etc? Wife going off to have fun with friends or dating new people while blowing off her home responsibilities or blowing off her relationship with you? That's not right.

In the end, maybe I’m just more in the “ambiamory” camp where I have the capacity for both monogamy and polyamory, but a combination of my beliefs plus the logistical realities of our life together causes me to prefer romantic monogamy with some sexual openness through the occasional Friends With Benefits / swinging on the side.

Nothing wrong with that.

Even though you yourself could see that you aren't all that into a primary-secondary model, you tried to kick it around as an idea. And you spotted that being present when wife and her GF share sex? That might not fly. (Ex: GF or wife doesn't like you being there? GF has to be present when you and wife share sex to make it "fair?") But at least you were making some attempt to put forth ideas to TRY to kick around and contemplate.

Since wife's not putting any ideas on the table herself? Just option A or B?

I think you are well within your rights to go

"Look, I did what you asked. I went to therapy and considered. I've tried to put forth suggestions that maybe if not perfect? We could try to work out. You don't put ideas out. I'm tired of going in circles.

If at the end of the day? The offer is basically

• Option A: Full on poly right NOW during the baby time where you do whatever you want and I'm left holding the bag with most of the responsibilities at home and with unanswered concerns? You want EVERYTHING?

or

• Option B: Skip the whole thing. You want NOTHING.

Ok. I pick Option B. Let's skip all this."

I mean, what else can you do? You are being honest about where you stand.

If wife and therapist keep trying to convince you to poly when you already stated you are not into that?

You don't have to keep going to these therapy appointments any more. The consideration work is completed.

Could stop going and save your money instead.

Galagirl

 

[straighthusbandbiwife]

That's a very fair question. Is she perhaps not feeling as enamored with motherhood as she hoped? Any post natal depression manifesting as simply getting away from the baby? Does she feel like she never really bonded with baby and would prefer to wait to do that bonding when the messiest parts of infancy are over? Or something else? After all, it's a little surprising that a new-ish mother is quite so willingly absent.

Nah, I'd say she's quite bonded with the baby. Far more than I anticipated, actually. She's just not one of those moms who must be within 15' of her baby at all times. She enjoys spending time with her before work, after work, and on the weekends. Yes, she had maternal postpartum depression. (Yes, I've struggled with paternal postpartum depression.) But she loves the baby for sure. That's not an issue.

I should be clear about something, though. Right now she's hanging out with friends 1-2 times a week. That good for her mental health, especially after over a year of complete or moderate quarantine. However, what she's talking about is apparently a romantic partner... or partners... on top of that. I just don't think she's thought though the logistics of all this very well.

 

[Evie]

However, what she's talking about is apparently a romantic partner... or partners... on top of that. I just don't think she's thought though the logistics of all this very well.

Does she know anyone in person who has a working poly relationship that she's trying to emulate? Where is she getting her information from?

 

[Marcus]

However, what she's talking about is apparently a romantic partner... or partners... on top of that. I just don't think she's thought though the logistics of all this very well.

Likely. For some reason people new to non-monogamy find themselves saying "nah baby, nothing will change between you and I". I've never been able to understand where people are getting that from.

When someone picks up a new hobby, gets a new friend, takes on a part time job, their availability always shrinks by exactly that much. There is something in moving from a traditional relationship to a non-traditional relationship that gives people rose tinted glasses which prompts them to make irrational declarations.

I guess my question is, what difference does it make? I see that you are collecting your arguments, loading your conversational weapons, and preparing to defend yourself against someone, but I don't get who it is that you are defending yourself from. You've stated clearly that you will absolutely not be in a polyamorous association, and that you are absolutely not going to be divorced (again), and that you have told your wife this in no uncertain terms. That doesn't leave a lot of room for maneuvering so I'm not sure I understand what is left to discuss?

 

[dingedheart]

As I mentioned in an earlier thread, my wife prefers to play things close to the vest due to some stuff from her family of origin. As I said, we've made enormous progress in this area but it remains her default. So, I've been open about reading books and articles, listening to podcasts, talking to my therapist, and reading (and one time contributing to) Reddit threads. She's well aware that any information she wishes to have about any of those things, including what I'm talking about in therapy, is available to her at any time. Yesterday I also told her that I've been participating in a polyamory forum. She replied, "Cool." I asked, "Do you want to know what website, what I posted, or how the thread has gone?" She answered something like, "Not really. Not right now, anyway. If I change my mind I'll let you know. Thanks for keeping me in the loop." So, that's where things stand. As per usual, I'm an open book but I also try to respect her but not forcing it.

This seems a little odd to me for someone pushing such a change in their marriage but you’re right you’ve graciously informed her of this and she wasn’t interested. I think I’d be a little hurt and or frustrated that my efforts didn’t rise mild curiosity and quick read. I’m not sure if this is a fair way of looking at this or not but she’s asking from you a greater investment of resources and division of labor to allow her to divert time, energy, attention, money into another romantic relationship and she can’t invest a few minutes to better understand the processing that’s going on. That could be telling.

See comments directly above.

I'd be open to that, but the ball is in her court.

Restating my question a bit clearer. Do you think providing links or printed copies hand out during the session of this thread would help them understand your prospective any better and factoring in the wide array of comments and opinions hit Topics yet to be discussed.

in terms of this idea I don’t think the ball is in her court. They’re joint sessions and having been in them myself and not liking direction or ambush feeling I got in the first few I started drafting outlines of topics or issues with example ...I made copies and passed them out at the start when asked how or who wanted to start.

So if You think this thread or a section of this thread ...or a particular well written paragraphs of a thought and feeling or a particularly good comment they no longer have the option to NOT want to read it.

depending how long this thread gets by the time of your next appointment it might be smart to sent them both a brief email the day before stating you‘d like discuss topics from you lates thread on the forum and then provide the link. then walk in with your outline with copies. You’ll quickly know who read it and who didn’t. Who serious and who’s not.

Settling? As in agreeing to disagree or that sort of thing? If so, I've started to get there in recent sessions but it feels like they think I'm on the verge of a breakthrough or something, so they kinda pushing it. Maybe I am and I don't know it, but I don't feel like that's the case. I feel like their mutual perception of where I'm at is waaaaaaaaay off, which I find odd since I've said in-person the same stuff I've written in this thread.

Does that answer your question?

NO. As in she suppresses her sexuality and her new found poly identity for YOU and your young child. I hate it but I don’t want divorce because of a longer laundry list. AND equally ( and you would not be the first guy ) to reluctantly agree to a poly arrangement to save his marriage and or keep his family together and not put his kids or in your case kid through a divorce. I’d say most cases of settling revolve around saying yes with a check mark in the box marked other than spouse.

I guess the question you might want to ask each other would you want her to settle for this relationship...and would she want you to settle for her or her side of the relationship? Thats a topic i wish I had brought up in our sessions. It might have been covered in a round about way with other discussions but not that simple or that clean. If tomorrow you caved in and gave her what she wants would she consider that a win ? knowing the back fuse was just lit. Or is it ...oh well let’s get the plane in the air I’ll worry about peeing on the fuse once we get to altitude.

 

[dingedheart]

Likely. For some reason people new to non-monogamy find themselves saying "nah baby, nothing will change between you and I". I've never been able to understand where people are getting that from.

When someone picks up a new hobby, gets a new friend, takes on a part time job, their availability always shrinks by exactly that much. There is something in moving from a traditional relationship to a non-traditional relationship that gives people rose tinted glasses which prompts them to make irrational declarations.

I think that people are saying those ridiculous things as some empty words of comfort OR they’re speaking from an emotional level and not a practical logistical level.

AND I think it goes well beyond time availability. To me it’s like a Newton’s cradle. It’s not going to hit just one ball.