primary status rejected

If your love language is quality time, why would you have to force yourself to spend time with him?

It usually wasn't about spending "time," it was usually about sex. With him always running off someplace else, I was left with the kids, housework and my job. I felt like a single parent. We weren't spending any quality time together. "Acts of Service" is also nearly equal to "quality time" and there were absolutely no acts of service being done. So I usually had to be coerced into sex, and the longer I went without, the harder it was to get in the mood again.

His idea of spending time together was for me to go with him to some meeting or event where I was left alone to fend for myself most of the time. Not fun and not really time together, so I stopped going.

It's kind of funny. I was reading your comment of the "affection" and the loss and I just got it. You mean my death, right?

Possibly. So many emotions go through your head when a loved one gets hurt, especially when you start thinking about what could have happened. One tends to re-evaluate some of our own behaviors a little. She may regret not going with you.

You said "She got a better offer." Does she like to ski? For me, I would NEVER turn down a ski trip to go to Vegas, but I would turn down Vegas in a second for a ski trip. My bff is just the opposite. Snow is not her thing, but Vegas is.
 
I think perhaps that pledge to my kids has been used against me. She knows where I stand on this topic, right or wrong. She knows I'm not going to walk away.

The big problem I have is the disconnect between words and actions. Saying I love you can only go so far.

These two things-- totally there with you!

I won't divorce Maca. I'm not watching my kids suffer the shit I've seen other people's kids suffer in divorce court and I'm not doing that to myself. He can leave as he sees fit (not in the plans), but I'm not.

"Actions speak louder than words" didn't become a common saying for no reason.
 
SN, has your husband read the book, or at least understands the concepts, and knows his and your love languages? This was one of the books on the recommended reading list of our couples therapist. Very illuminating for me.

I think the idea of spending time and being in close proximity to one another could be interpreted differently. When you decided not to go to these events, did he even notice or care? My guess is not.

Re-evaluate, maybe. Something has changed in the past few weeks.

Also, ever since that weekend, my daughter has had my wife in her crosshairs. Her instincts and the stories she was told don't add up. I've seen my daughter going through my wife's phonem claiming she needed a phone number. That sparked a fire. She is relentless when she is on a hunt, and if she finds any information to support her theory, she's not going to stop.

Yes, my wife loves to ski. To be fair, she's gone on many family ski trips, 2-3 a year, and maybe more, with the ski club as chaperone. It may be escapism. A lust-filled trip away from husband and family, completely bullshit free. I get it. But at what cost?

I'm sure a lot of people would love to do these types of things, but don't, because of the cost, or damage it could cause.

To me, her trip was disappointing from a family perspective. Could I have done the same thing? Most likely not. In my opinion, she is looking at this from her very narrow perspective.

Years ago, I participated in sailboat racing, and every yr there was the granddaddy of races, and it fell on my daughter's birthday. The first few years, we celebrated her birthday either the week before or the week after, before she knew the calendar. Then I got to thinking, what I'm I saying to my daughter is, sailing a boat is more important than her birthday... no way. I stopped doing that race, just not worth it to me. It was selfish.

This summer, I think I'll try backing out of a long weekend at the summer house. I can't wait to hear why that won't work. She won't be able to prep the boat, carry the gear, inflate the tubes etc., etc. The list of duties is quite long. Even if she could do some of the things needed, she wouldn't want to. Aside from the physical stuff, she'll want it to be a family event. "It just won't be the same if you're not there." I've actually heard this before.

I think its simple... romantic-love outsourcing. I think moving to a more secondary role, and me looking to outsource that aspect of my life, myself, might help put some balance back.

LR, I've often wondered if things were done, or are being done, to try to force me into a divorce situation, to make the other person quit. A friend of mind said his ex had admitted to this years after their divorce. She didn't want to be the one to file first, to be the bad guy. So, instead, she wanted to make life a living hell, to force him to be the bad guy. Fucked up, I know. Makes ya think, though.

The new saying should be: "Actions speak louder than words, unless NRE is involved, then it's anyone's fucking guess."
 
SN, has your husband read the book, or at least understand the concepts of love languages? Very illuminating for me.

I think the idea of spending time and being in close proximity to one another could be interpreted differently. When you decided not to go to these events, did he even notice or care? My guess is not.

We read the book. He probably stuck to the highlights after I read it. But it was definitely an excellent book. I wish we had read it 20 years ago, although it probably wouldn't have made as big an impact. Things have been much better the last 5 months. I actually learned about the book from people on this board, and beat our marriage counselor to bringing it up.

Last July/August, I was filling out divorce paperwork. Things were really bad. We have both done a lot of work on ourselves and our relationship. I still wish it didn't hurt so bad when we hit the lows. It's like the devastation from last July all over again, but it doesn't last as long and we find solutions and apologize sooner. I think that might be why it's so hard to recover when things go bad. Things are great for a while, but when issues come up, the hurt isn't proportional to the immediate problem, and it hits the lowest low again.
 
I've often thought if some things were done, or are being done, to try to force me into a divorce situation, to make the other person quit. A friend of mind said his ex had admitted to this yrs after their divorce. She didn't want to be the one to file first, be the bad guy. So instead she wanted to make life a living hell to force him to be the bad guy.

"Be the worst possible partner you can be, to make them call it quits first" is like the oldest trick in the "Really Low Moves in any Relationship" book. A friend likes to do this, by cheating so long and so hard, he just has to kick her out.
 
SN, it sounds like he may not be as motivated to make your collective situation better. When we finally decided to see a therapist, which in most cases is way to late, I thought our problems were mostly generated from my wife. However my motivation was my kids. When I shifted my thinking from fault to learning, lots changed. I read all the books, did all the homework, kept a journal (never did that before), learned as much as I could about myself and relationship counseling.

As a result, I learned a lot. I didn't understand the love-language concept. Simple communication techniques that eliminated the frustration and eventual breakdown which always resulted in name calling and swearing. Within a month, everyone could see a marked difference. The heat had been turned way down.

Are you still going to the marriage counselor? Does your husband feel these same lower lows, or is it just you? Maybe it's a memory-type response. It was a few years ago, but I do remember similar problems happening. Generally it was because the "issue" had been thoroughly beat to death with some satisfactory conclusion, only to be repeated by the offending party all over again. This resulted in disappointment, frustration and anger. I viewed these fractures as a complete disregard for the process and the agreement as to how to move forward. However, in truth, old habits and thought die hard. Two steps forward, 1-3 back.

BlackUnicorn, yeah, I think you're right. Lowest of the low. I personally wouldn't want to treat someone badly intentionally. Bad karma, waste of everyone's time, golden rule. Not to mention, it's cowardly.
 
I personally wouldn't want to treat someone badly intentionally. Bad karma, waste of everyone's time, golden rule. Not to mention, it's cowardly.

From my observations, the people who do this tend to have histories of abuse, and they channel the hurt into romance, NRE, sex addiction. They have really low esteem and are constantly looking for that one person who can make them whole. Their baggage makes them the worst possible candidates for long-term mutually committed monogamy (or responsible polyamory, for that matter), but they tend to crave love and attachment. And when they get it, they think either 1) this person doesn't really love me, because I'm inherently unlovable; 2) this person doesn't really know how horrible and unlovable I am inside, so I have to make them understand by showing them; or 3) this person loves me, which makes them a total loser, for who else would love somebody as unlovable as me?

While I'm not saying this kind of behavior is okay, it is often not entirely intentional, either.
 
It sounds like he may not be as motivated to make your collective situation better.

Huh? Prior to the disaster of last July, I would probably agree, but since then, we have both worked hard to make changes and correct quite a number of issues.

Are you still going to the marriage counselor? Does your husband feel these same lower lows, or is it just you? Maybe its a memory-type response.

Yes, we are still seeing the counselor, but only once a month, and even that is killing our finances right now. I don't think he does feel the same lows. I was the one betrayed, and experienced anxiety attacks for the first time in my life. I'm sure the current lows are memory related. It's like every time we have a fight (completely unrelated to the issues of last July), I go through the same heart-crushing, near-anxiety feelings of despair, as if there is no hope. They are getting fewer and don't last as long, but we are dealing with 20 years of bad communication and resentments, so some of it is to be expected.

I think it is these memory-related lows that make repairing damaged relationships so hard. Even small things can set off the feeling of absolute despair.
 
SN, the reason I questioned his motivation was you saying he read the highlights of the Chapman book, that's all. I know exactly how you feel as to the expense of it all. It sucks. I ended up looking at it as investment, maybe paying out in the future, or helping my kids.

Has being here helped with your own situation? Have you posted questions to gain insight into your relationship issues? What better place to get relationship guidance, from people who have 2 or 3 going on all at once?
 
The reason I questioned his motivation was you saying read the highlights of the Chapman book, that's all. I know exactly how you feel as to the expense of it all. I ended up looking at it as investment.

Has being here helped with your own situation? Have you posted questions to gain insight into your relationship issues? What better place to get relationship guidance, from people who have 2 or 3 going on all at once?

He told me he would read the whole book (I have it downloaded on my laptop), but as he has made a concerted effort and we have discussed it a lot, I didn't think it was necessary.

Being here on this board has helped me tremendously in so many areas. I have gained incredible insight into relationships, COMMUNICATION and how to live outside the box. I have also learned a lot about myself and some things I wasn't taking care of personally, that the counselor never even touched on. I have looked at other boards dealing with marriage, and I'll never go back to them, as I have gotten much more unbiased, non-judgmental help here.
 
SN, I think that it's really great that you have gained insight and tools to help you with your situation. I know writing on here has forced me to have more focus and attention to all my words associated with this topic. It has also helped me process events and situations as they come. I also have gotten lots of good advice.
 
Because of recent events, I requested a meeting to discuss a month's-worth of stuff. I'm calling it the monthly poly progress meeting. I prepared an outline of my issues, concerns, and the resulting actions on my part-- the insurance thing. I called her during the day to set up a time for this discussion. She said tonight after kid are asleep. Okay, fine. I handed her the outline about an hour or so before she and I would be able to talk, to give her a chance to see what was on my mind.

Talk time rolled around and she said she wasn't going to be able to have this discussion as planned because she has very important meeting/training and didn't want to look as if she'd been crying all night. But she told me that while crying, so I'm not getting the difference. This meeting has been tentatively rescheduled for Saturday. What a way to kill a weekend. I'm guessing she and the bf are going to have lunch today or tomorrow to discuss her response. God, I'd love to hear that conversation.

To give her a clear picture of how I feel and where my mind is at, I have given her full access to a journal I started jotting things in shortly after coming to this site. If you think I ask a lot of questions here, you should see this legal pad. It's ground zero for questions. Only a percentage of them make it here.

Some sort of understanding on the topic of "primary" will happen this weekend. My guess is the word primary is going to be dropped out of the lexicon. We will see.
 
Primary or any other status is not relevant anymore, and no longer of interest to me. Things blew up before any of that could happen.
 
Not sure what to say to your last comment. Hope you guys are hanging in there.

Sorry, my friend. I just caught up on what's been happening. Take care of yourself and your daughter. Try to remember your wife is still human and is already paying for this. Her reality has just changed. Your daughter is priority now... So sad.
 
Thanks, Mono. I have one slight advantage, I've read most of emails, studied the pictures. They should have behaved more like humans. Right now I regard both of them as big balls of string or yarn. NOT human... yarn. I'm sure this is one of the reasons she wanted to kill herself.

They've awoken a very angry sleeping giant. I'm sure my wife knows what I'm capable of, but this fucking fool has NO fucking clue. I will have his head on a pike!!!!!!!
 
They've awoken a very angry sleeping giant. I'm sure my wife knows what I'm capable of, but this fucking fool has NO fucking clue. I will have his head on a pike!!!!!!!

I'm confused. You were aware of her relationship. You knew they were sexual, right? You had already said you wanted "secondary" status. Why is what they do is cause for revenge?

You two have plenty of problems, and deep issues to handle and heal, but I don't understand why some kinky pictures is what sent you over the edge, after everything else.
 
They've awoken a very angry sleeping giant. I'm sure my wife knows what I'm capable of, but this fucking fool has NO fucking clue. I will have his head on a pike!!!!!!!

Justified or otherwise, PLEASE contain your anger and resentment. I don't mean ignore it, or suppress it, or repress it. I mean, place it in a container that allows you to process it without resorting to violence, or even threats of violence.

I say this because I fear someone's going to get hurt, and because I'd hate to see you thrown in prison.

There are lots of people who can help you with containing and processing your rage and hurt. Go to them before ruining yours or anyone else's life. Please.
 
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