Anna Xx

kdt26417

Official Greeter
I'm glad to hear that some good came out of that conversation. Maybe he is trying to stay on Space Cadet's good side for the sake of the kids, and his home life is eating up all of his energy. After the kids are old enough to move out, things might change quite a bit. In the meantime, there does seem to be some incentive for moving to live closer to him.
 

annabelle

Member
I woke up happy knowing I had a clean mug to make my morning coffee.☕️ It would be nice to get a espresso maker someday, maybe after I move, if budget allows. Coffee is ok, but I prefer espresso-drinks.

I'm eating some Cheerios, and reading the headlines, following current events and politics has been a daily practice in my life, and it's difficult for me to try to detach from doing it to quell my angst, because it is a regular hobby, of sorts, I enjoy (or used to). Having discussions over these things, also, used to be something I was fond of, but there are precious few people that feels ok to have these conversations with now. Even people I know that also shared my hobby, have turned away because they just can't stomach it anymore. I admit to feeling the same now.

I think about Winter a bit, and his state of depression, and worry about him. I know what it can be like, and this isn't something he is accustomed to deal with personally. I feel conflicted about having started the discussion we had. I don't want to add to the pressure he is feeling in other areas of his life, given his current state of mind. Then again, until he opened up to me more about it as we talked, I didn't realize exactly how bad it had gotten, nor of added pressures that were put upon him next month by Space Cadet and work, so I feel I didn't do anything wrong either.

In love, the type that Rumi discusses, is there a line you draw between yourself and the other. Maybe not in the spirit, but how about in practical matters of living on this earth?

Anna Xx
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
I find that there is a noticeable line between my consciousness and the consciousness of others. Many years ago, I had a blackout in which I lost all consciousness. I have no memory of what happened while I was blacked out, nor of being blacked out. So I was not able to transfer my consciousness to that of my poly companions.

I don't keep up with current events and politics very well, but I would certainly be willing to discuss them with you if that would help. I am not hiding from current events and politics, I am just too lazy, by default, to follow them without a specific event to look for (and a particular reason to look for it).

Things are pretty grim right now in the political world of the United States. There's a chance that this year's election (November 3, plus people can vote early) will bring about some desperately-needed changes, but I am not holding out a lot of hope for that.

Most of all, we need Mitch McConnell to be voted out, and the Senate to be flipped. And of course we need Trump to be voted out. But even if I got everything on my wish list, there would still be a lot of problems, such as an overpoweringly conservative Supreme Court.
 

annabelle

Member
I am feeling a bit sad, maybe more than a bit sad since last I wrote. I tried calling Winter several times since the conversation, and he hasn't answered the phone, nor called back. I doubt it he wasn't to talk, I suppose, because we left it that we would talk again and he doesn't want to do it for whatever reason. He has been depressed, too, and the family is going on a trip to see Space Cadet's family, which is not a positive thing for him given the nature of the relationship with them.

I am surprised that they are taking the trip at all because of covid.

It's holiday season soon, and it is ever the reminder that I won't be spending holidays with him. That has been upsetting for many years now, and further makes me feel as if he and I are in an affair when we are not.

I have been texting with him some during the week although I kept it 'friend-like, I am having to initiate contact. Normally, I would be having more anxiety, as I deal with anxious attachment style. There was some as he was quiet but I didn't have self doubt wondering if I say something wrong or was wrong about initialing recent conversations about my being dissatisfied about the status of our relationship.

I've had a hard time of not ruminating on the things I said until I did some journaling. While what he said was deeply hurtful, even if it essentially came because he doesn't want to approach Space Cadet, as he has been saying he needs time over and over. Even if he is re-evaluating his relationship with Space Cadet, there's not much I can do about that. I don't think he is going to do it unless I stop seeing him. I think he said a host of reasons to stop me from drawing a line with him. A lot of it I heard before but he tried a lot of it.

Notably, and probably the part I can't put behind me, is that he said as he says every time I have tried to do this in the past few years that I said I couldn't do this anymore. I felt like this was somewhat manipulative, because he knows how hard it is for me to stick to it, especially given the isolation I feel.

I feel like he keeps hoping I will eventually decide I will be ok with the way things are now, but that isn't going to happen. If for no other reason that I just am sick of thinking about Space Cadet calling the shots as I feel she only wants this to remain casual or wants me to just get to walk away. Since I returned, notably,, we aren't allowed to do PIV which is highly sexually frustrating to me, and cause me feel as though she is in my bedroom with he and I calling the shots. He said he would want to tell her (ask her?) before PIV but this has all been doing on many months, although covid put a real wrench in things, it is just killing my desire to do all the other things we can in bed more and more. My libido is really gone these days, and I wonder if it is because I am demi and feeling less and less emotionally connected to as every week passes.

I just am tired. Tired of me twisting myself into pretzels and waiting for him to do something. I don't think I can continue this way, truly, and though it would be difficult to end seeing him, it seems like the more detached I am, the less stress i feel. The rollercoaster of this has a negative impact on my sleep, my health, and my focus for work and other things.

<taking break for lunch now>.
 

annabelle

Member
I didn't initiate contact this weekend with him I wanted some peace. I feel a bit better about it today. I don't like keeping up the pattern he mentioned of not sticking to my guns out of respect for myself, and I am trying very hard at focusing on self-care. I feeling like he is playing games and I don't like playing them back. Maybe that is a new standard I want to set for relationships starting with this one. I don't like feeling like I am giving up my personal power contacting him first.

And so it feels a bit like I might end seeing him and/or putting all my energy and giving up the chance to keep my emotions more level, or getting over him enough to make room in the future to date someone new.

The ball is in his court right now. Part of is scared he won't pick it back up, but maybe it is better for me if he doesn't. I don't know. I don't even know what would put me in a better place about this, especially being LD.

In other news, Tex started up conversations with me again and text. I told him I was a bit hurt by his long absence. He said that he had just been busy (boy am I really tired of these excuses)). Then he starting telling him that his sex life with Trix is non-existeng and that his 'second life' - I guess sleeping with other women is dead too because no one is replying to the booty calls. Maybe he has ghosted them too. I don't blame them. It's pretty insulting too that I feel like this last pick. Did he think that would be make me want to start up out virtual fwb again? It's not as if we can even see each other to just have sex, and again with taking emotional distance, comes a lack of desire for me. I've just been ignoring these pretty lame efforts. Why would I take on more anxiety waiting for him to 'get busy' again or be some fallback choice. Game playing and lack of respect for my feelings.

In the area of taking space again, I felt for some time that talking to Martin was also causing upheaval. The main reason is that leans conservative and while he says he isn't voting for him, he keeps apologizing and trying to justify the behavior and it triggers how he treated me when we were partners. He repeats talking points for Fox, and I have had it with trying to convince him otherwise and there was a breaking point this week when he didn't seem to care that 500+ immigrant children from Mexico are in terrible conditions and that the administration has not located there parents we all recently learned, for years.

I was disgusted that he seemed to not care. I think a lot of friendships have broken up over these types of issues.

I have cut back on following the news so much too, since I was also just not feeling well keeping up with it. I've voted, and thing will only likely get more turbulent on and past election day, no matter how it goes. If he wins, I will feel devastated along with anyone who stands against him and his administration.

I just haven't answered his calls this weekend. I don't feel like talking about it. I won't ghost him, but just don't need this right now.

It leaves to a lot of quiet and I struggle to keep busy. I am glad,I have here to come to to talk about all of this and ask for and receive support.

I am sleeping a lot because I feel tired all the time I am trying to eat well and nurture my body and ride wave of emotions without reacting using some CBT etc.

I think I am doing the best I can, and it is requiring every bit of inner strength I have.

Anna Xx
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
It sounds like you are getting tired of being treated like a second-class citizen ... and you are getting tired of some of the political stances (e.g., Martin). I think it's horrifying that they can't find the parents of over 500 children. And Trump uses the excuse that those children supposedly weren't brought here by their parents. Somehow I doubt that ...
 

annabelle

Member
It sounds like you are getting tired of being treated like a second-class citizen ... and you are getting tired of some of the political stances (e.g., Martin). I think it's horrifying that they can't find the parents of over 500 children. And Trump uses the excuse that those children supposedly weren't brought here by their parents. Somehow I doubt that ...
P.S. I meant to say Darwin not Martin.

it is just horrifying.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
During this last debate, Trump kept asking, "Who built the cages, Joe? Who built the cages?" I don't know if the Democrats built the cages, but I'm pretty sure it was the Republicans (starring Trump) who cooked up the awful way those cages have been used.
 

annabelle

Member
During this last debate, Trump kept asking, "Who built the cages, Joe? Who built the cages?" I don't know if the Democrats built the cages, but I'm pretty sure it was the Republicans (starring Trump) who cooked up the awful way those cages have been used.
That is the Trump talking point. I'm not certain if they were built during the Obama presidency or not, or for what purposes, but I am pretty certain it was not for the purposes of containing children. I remember a couple yrs ago hearing recordings of the children crying and interactions with those holding them recorded by a journalist and just crying my eyes out.

Trump said in this last debate that they were being treated very well, the children, and alluded to the fact they were in nice quarters. I highly doubt if this were true, and even if it was they have been kept from their parents for 2 years! How has the administration done nothing about this. Why on earth were they at least not given foster families?

It is heartless and inhumane.

Did you see the clearing of Fayetteville Square by the White House in May with tear gas and force by federal police (or whoever they were)? All so Trump could make a mini-movie of him waltzing with his posse to the church, when he held up a Bible. I am not a religious personal, however I am spiritual, and for me this was a turning point when I thought to myself that he, and likely many of his cohorts, were truly evildoers, and it was a signal of things to come. It was frightening to me that he could brazenly do this, and nothing was And the current Republicans have all but said nothing except for words of support by his sycophants.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Yeah, even during the debate, when Biden talked about the children being locked up in cages, you could tell that Biden was genuinely horrified by it, he wasn't just arguing with Trump about it, he was expressing genuine, involuntary horror.

Since the parents of 500 children now can't be found, the only way to even put a band-aid on the resulting problem is to adopt those children out to families in the United States. The one thing we know about the natural parents is that those parents wanted their children to have a better life in the United States. But Trump won't even do that. He just keeps those children locked up in those cages indefinitely.

The thing with Trump holding up a Bible was just ridiculous. First of all, Trump is not religious, not even close. I doubt that he has ever opened a Bible, or read a single verse. Trump is a player and a hedonist. He likes to enjoy the fruits of immense wealth. To use his own words, he likes to "grab women by the pussy." These are not the words and actions of a pious man. For Trump to stand in front of a church and hold up a Bible (on cue for the camera, no less) is downright laughable. Or it would be laughable, if he hadn't used force (e.g. tear gas) to clear the way. Heck, he didn't even bother to ask that church for permission to pull that stunt, and when the pastor found out what Trump had done, that pastor was furious. It's like Trump was pulling a con job without even pretending to be doing otherwise. And his many devotees are just fine with that. Unbelievable!

America desperately needs a new President. But I haven't forgotten how things went in the 2016 election. People were sure, we were all sure, heck even Trump was sure, that Clinton would win. So now, I am not at all sure that Biden will win, despite his standing in the polls. Lord knows Trump has the Electoral College on his side.
 

annabelle

Member
I seem to be under constant exhaustion these days. I've been under a lot of stress for quite awhile of multiple type, and what has been going on with Winter and I has just been constant upheaval going on in the background like noise in my head. It's not been all bad, but the rushes of good make it difficult for me to keep a safe distance. Maybe if the other stressors were gone or lessoned, I wouldn't feel as unsettled when it come to Winter and I, but it wouldn't change how I feel about things, humming the same tune with Winter.

I sleep quite a lot. My sleep is frequently interrupted by bad dreams /night mares, although that has been going on for years now. Not sure why exactly but anxiety doesn't help that. I've been battling intense bouts of sleepiness and fatigue that comes in waves at times, and I tend to go into bed and curl up underneath my weighted blanket to self soothe and my furrbaby nestles up to me, furry and warm.

It's been really bad since the conversation with Winter last week, although that is definitely not the only factor here. I think my cortisol levels are are all messed up from prolonged worry. I was reading about adrenal fatigue. Sounds like me/

I'm fortunate to work for myself and at home to accommodate the flexibility I need. I never like corporate offices, and shudder to think about ever inhabiting a cubicle again. I used to get these intense sleepiness bouts there too, so much so that I used to go to the restroom so I could sit on the stall, and rest my head on my hands and snooze a bit. It's probably something I should get checked out. Maybe I have a sleep disorder.

This weariness the week is intense. I'm glad I can basically pick when to work around the meetings I make for myself I feel as if I should be doing more, but I have stayed on top of things, and just have deliberately not taken on too much. I have a few contractors working for me now, which makes things easier too.

I read more about fatigue and romanitc breakouts, and they talked a lot on how change in neurotransmitters alters the serotonin, oxytocin, and dopamine in our bodies and various hormones. I am not in the medical field but am a bit of a nerd for reading stuff like this. They said that after a big breakup of sorts, your body can ache as muscles swell, blood rushes to your GI system causing changes in appetite, and your sleep patterns altered.

I suppose I am looking for validation from somewhere that I am not being lazy. I feel as if this sleepiness or fatigue is my fault sometimes, but no doctors to date have found any cause. This week it's just been these sleep attacks all day. I thought it was maybe some incoming depression for a bit, but that's not it. I'm not sick

I'm trying my best to be kind to myself and just rest.

I can barely keep. my eyes open and feel lethargic right now even though I rested a lot. My heart races a lot, it feels like I can almost hear it.

Maybe I'll talk to my doctor about it via telehealth, but to be honest I just not up for being medicalized right now, and I doubt there would be no simple answer.

Winter has been totally silent all weekend now. I'm tired of having a constant inner monologue going on in my head about him. I'm tired of having discussions or disagreements with him in my mind all the time too. I rarely get the opportunity to express myself tohim on the phone, much less in person where it should be done for important things.I know it's the isolation too. Being stuck in the house because of carefulness about covid.

I'm annoyed with myself because I have asink full of dishes again but they will have to sit there. I'll drag myself to the dryer to get my clothes, then climb back into my blankets and feel the security of being tightly wrapped in it as I drop off to sleep.

Anna Xx
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
He just doesn't have the resources to give you what you want. I think that's pretty clear and it can become manipulative when you stay around, knowing this and threatening to leave unless it changes. It isnt going to change. He isn't going to adapt his home life to make more room for this relationship.
 

annabelle

Member
He just doesn't have the resources to give you what you want. I think that's pretty clear and it can become manipulative when you stay around, knowing this and threatening to leave unless it changes. It isnt going to change. He isn't going to adapt his home life to make more room for this relationship.
I haven't asked him for anything that would infringe on his family time, or for anything at all, except to have discussions now discuss a compromise, and failing that I didn't think I could continue seeing him if he wasn't unwilling to talk about this. I said I was not happy with status quo, and it was causing me a lot of stress and upheaval. He expressed his concerns about our current relationship in general.

Neither of us intends on leaving the relationship, we are discussing continuing to see one another romantically/alone, which is something that is currently the issue for me as is.

It's up to him if he wants to make more room for us now or in the future. I have expressed that I'd like to spend more time with him.

One of my biggest issues is with how he caters to Space Cadet's want of this DADT-like situation where he has to pretend as if we are just communicating or spending time together as friends, and on his own time and finances. She doesn't want us to have a poly relationship, or he and I to have some sort of serious committed relationship, which includes PIV as everyone understands I don't have casual sex. I think she really takes issue with 'making love' yet really is that her desire for us to not have intimacy? My feeling on it, is that certainly any body contact, not just PIV is sexual intimacy, and even without the physical, he and I given our lifetime relationship will always have that, physical contact or not.

I'm tired of playing this game where he has to make some excuse with her to come over to do something for me around my house or just to 'have lunch' and therefore has to be kept short to preserve this illusion. I told him that I resented the fact that whole she didn't want have me in the home or even speaking to their kids or with me that she has any influence at all in MY life and what goes on in MY home. I didn't suggest what he should do about it. His choice on whether to take any steps to change this in some way, even if a compromise. Her fecognizing poly or not, we are certainly in my opinion, basically in some sort of Vee right now.

He knows the PIV thing is an issue when we spend time in bed and perhaps would mean that.
He knows I want to see the kids, and he wants that too, and so does the eldest daughter. I guess that will work itself out perhaps in the future in some manner.

I asked him to better respect my schedule and not expect me to accept when he decides to come see me, and if he makes plans with me, I expect him to do what he promises, saving some problem.

He offered that if I moved nearby to him we would likely be able to see eachother more often, primarily midweek on his own available time, although not on Friday evening, or on the weekend. It leaves weekday evenings open to possibilities, if schedules allow, but with no expectations there.

I said I didn't really want to stop seeing him alone, and I didn't want to make a decision alone about it, but I did want us to learn to communicate better in general.

I've had a lot of feelings afterwards about other things he said to me to me, some of which hurt me, even though he was being pretty honest. I'm not sure where I stand on what I said, but really I don't think there is anything for me to do right now except wait for him to want to continue the discussion
 

Magdlyn

Well-known member
I haven't asked him for anything that would infringe on his family time, or for anything at all, except to discuss compromises. I said, I didn't think I could continue seeing him, if he wasn't willing to talk about this. I said, I was not happy with the status quo, and it was causing me a lot of stress and upheaval. He expressed his concerns about our current relationship in general.

Neither of us intends to leave the relationship. We are discussing continuing to see one another romantically/alone, which is currently the issue for me. It's up to him if he wants to make more room for us now, or in the future. I have expressed that I'd like to spend more time with him.

One of my biggest issues is with how he caters to Space Cadet's want of this DADT-like situation, where he has to pretend as if we are just communicating or spending time together as friends, and on his own time and finances. She doesn't want us to have a poly relationship, or for him and me to have a serious committed relationship. This would include PIV, as everyone understands I don't have casual sex.


I think she really takes issue with Winter and me "making love." Is her desire for us to not have intimacy? My feeling on it, is that any body contact, not just PIV, is sexual intimacy. And even without the physical aspect, given our lifetime relationship, Winter and I will always have intimacy, whether we have physical contact or not.

I'm tired of playing this game, where he has to make some excuse with her to come over, to do something for me around my house, or just to "have lunch." Therefore, has to keep our meetings short, to preserve this illusion. I told him that I resented the fact that while she didn't want to have me in their home, or even speaking to their kids, that she has any influence at all in MY life and what goes on in MY home. I didn't suggest what he should do about it. It is his choice on whether to take any steps to change this in some way, to make a compromise. Whether she recognizes poly or not, we are, in my opinion, basically in some sort of Vee right now.

He knows the PIV thing is an issue, when we spend time in bed.

He knows I want to see the kids. He wants that too, and so does the eldest daughter. I guess that will work itself out, perhaps in the future, in some manner.

I asked him to respect my schedule, and not expect me to accept whatever time he decides to come see me. And if he makes plans with me, I expect him to do what he promises.

He made an offer. If I moved nearer to him, we would likely be able to see each other more often, primarily midweek on his own available time. But not on Friday evening, or on the weekend. That would leave weekday evenings open to possibilities, if schedules allow. But there are no expectations there.

I said I didn't really want to stop seeing him alone, and I also didn't want to make a decision alone about it. I want us to learn to communicate better in general.

I've had a lot of feelings afterwards about other things he said to me to me, some of which hurt me, even though he was being pretty honest. I'm not sure where I stand on what I said, but really I don't think there is anything for me to do right now except wait for him to want to continue the discussion.
You sound very passive. You sometimes seem to stand up for yourself, but then you back down. You continually leave things up to him, but then you think he is leaving things up to his wife. And yet, you don't want her to have control over your relationship with him. And round and round you go.

You sound lonely, and so you are settling for the crumbs from a very busy married man, with a demanding job, and 2 teenagers cooped up in the pandemic. His wife resents his relationship with you. She doesn't want this poly arrangement to go on. He knows this, and yet he continues to communicate with you, at your insistence and instigation. He is almost as passive as you are.

There may be love between you and Winter, and I hear you and he go back a ways. But it sounds like that era is long over. The living together situation was a disaster. The longer you and Winter continue with this mess, the longer you will be miserable. You are selling yourself short. You deserve better. You have the power to change this.

You are very depressed. Yes, the political situation sucks ass right now. We can vote, we can protest, we can volunteer if we want, to affect change.

But outside of that, in your personal life, you can make changes. You don't have to wait. You KNOW you are bending yourself in pretzels to grasp to the life raft of Winter, which is barely afloat. You are torturing yourself.

His wife will still resent you even if you move closer. Don't you see that? It will still suck. Winter is making bad choices. Both of you seem to be lacking in self respect.

If you really really think things will be better in a few years, when his kids move out, you could cut ties for now and give it time. Don't worry if HE gets anxious if you go no-contact. That's his feeling to deal with. I don't know if things WILL get better now. He's told you point blank he will never leave his wife. You could take him at his word.

Space Cadet doesn't want her husband to have a poly relationship with you. But she doesn't accept he does, and then leave him to it, and split. Everyone is choosing to simmer in resentment, together but apart, in passivity, spinning their wheels. Demanding one crumb for herself, with which he agrees, to not actually fuck you. Bleh.

We only live once. Why live in misery, when you have the power to make changes for the better?
 
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SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
I haven't asked him for anything that would infringe on his family time, or for anything at all, except to have discussions now discuss a compromise, and failing that I didn't think I could continue seeing him if he wasn't unwilling to talk about this. I said I was not happy with status quo, and it was causing me a lot of stress and upheaval. He expressed his concerns about our current relationship in general.

Neither of us intends on leaving the relationship, we are discussing continuing to see one another romantically/alone, which is something that is currently the issue for me as is.

It's up to him if he wants to make more room for us now or in the future. I have expressed that I'd like to spend more time with him.

One of my biggest issues is with how he caters to Space Cadet's want of this DADT-like situation where he has to pretend as if we are just communicating or spending time together as friends, and on his own time and finances. She doesn't want us to have a poly relationship, or he and I to have some sort of serious committed relationship, which includes PIV as everyone understands I don't have casual sex. I think she really takes issue with 'making love' yet really is that her desire for us to not have intimacy? My feeling on it, is that certainly any body contact, not just PIV is sexual intimacy, and even without the physical, he and I given our lifetime relationship will always have that, physical contact or not.

I'm tired of playing this game where he has to make some excuse with her to come over to do something for me around my house or just to 'have lunch' and therefore has to be kept short to preserve this illusion. I told him that I resented the fact that whole she didn't want have me in the home or even speaking to their kids or with me that she has any influence at all in MY life and what goes on in MY home. I didn't suggest what he should do about it. His choice on whether to take any steps to change this in some way, even if a compromise. Her fecognizing poly or not, we are certainly in my opinion, basically in some sort of Vee right now.

He knows the PIV thing is an issue when we spend time in bed and perhaps would mean that.
He knows I want to see the kids, and he wants that too, and so does the eldest daughter. I guess that will work itself out perhaps in the future in some manner.

I asked him to better respect my schedule and not expect me to accept when he decides to come see me, and if he makes plans with me, I expect him to do what he promises, saving some problem.

He offered that if I moved nearby to him we would likely be able to see eachother more often, primarily midweek on his own available time, although not on Friday evening, or on the weekend. It leaves weekday evenings open to possibilities, if schedules allow, but with no expectations there.

I said I didn't really want to stop seeing him alone, and I didn't want to make a decision alone about it, but I did want us to learn to communicate better in general.

I've had a lot of feelings afterwards about other things he said to me to me, some of which hurt me, even though he was being pretty honest. I'm not sure where I stand on what I said, but really I don't think there is anything for me to do right now except wait for him to want to continue the discussion
Of course he has no plans to leave the relationship. He has everything he can manage plus a bit that he cant. He has his married, family life that takes all his time and then he has you for any scrap of time he has left. He knows you will stick around and tolerate this so what incentive does he have to change anything?

He doesn't want to rock his marriage at all regardless of whether it is the happy one it should be so sustaining that will always dictate the boundaries of your relationship. That's what he has chosen to do and that's up to him but he should be forthcoming with you about the fact it is a choice and he is aware of the alternatives but has picked this.
 

Magdlyn

Well-known member
Of course he has no plans to leave the relationship. He has everything he can manage plus a bit that he cant. He has his married, family life that takes all his time and then he has you for any scrap of time he has left. He knows you will stick around and tolerate this so what incentive does he have to change anything?

He doesn't want to rock his marriage at all, regardless of whether it is a happy one. It will always dictate the boundaries of your relationship. That's what he has chosen to do and that's up to him. But he should be forthcoming with you about the fact it is a choice. He is aware of the alternatives, but he has picked this.
I edited your second paragraph Is that what you meant? I wasn't clear.

Your scenario still leaves the choices up to the guy. It's Annabelle who should take control of her own life. She's leaving the control up to her bf, and he's leaving the control up to his wife! Someone's got to say, the buck stops here. Annabelle can continue to live in misery. Or she can choose to just get off this ride, stop playing this game, and instead, make healthier choices, and find better people to share her life with.
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
I edited your second paragraph Is that what you meant? I wasn't clear.

Your scenario still leaves the choices up to the guy. It's Annabelle who should take control of her own life. She's leaving the control up to her bf, and he's leaving the control up to his wife! Someone's got to say, the buck stops here. Annabelle can continue to live in misery. Or she can choose to just get off this ride, stop playing this game, and instead, make healthier choices, and find better people to share her life with.

I feel like he is encouraging her to believe that he hasn't actively made choices and is passively allowing his wife to make them for him. He is passively accepting of what she needs as the priority but he has actively chosen to do that. He isn't his wife's victim.... he's her husband and this is how they work their marriage. Neither of them want that to change.
 

Magdlyn

Well-known member
I feel like he is encouraging her to believe that he hasn't actively made choices and is passively allowing his wife to make them for him. He is passively accepting of what she needs as the priority but he has actively chosen to do that. He isn't his wife's victim.... he's her husband and this is how they work their marriage. Neither of them want that to change.
Oh, OK. Yes, I agree completely. Be that as it may, the ball is NOT in his court. The ball belongs to Anna. She can choose to take responsibility for her own life, and stop trying to get anywhere this beaten nearly dead horse on the creepy amusement park ride.

Annabelle, I am being a bit "tough love" here, but I say what I do from a place of kindness and concern. I know how hard it can be to make big changes. Hell, I remained in a marriage for 10 years longer than I should have.
 

annabelle

Member
Hi Magdlyn,

Thanks very much for your thoughtful post.

You sound very passive. You sometimes seem to stand up for yourself, but then you back down. You continually leave things up to him, but then you think he is leaving things up to his wife. And yet, you don't want her to have control over your relationship with him. And round and round you go.

Round and round we go is about right.

You sound lonely, and so you are settling for the crumbs from a very busy married man, with a demanding job, and 2 teenagers cooped up in the pandemic. His wife resents his relationship with you. She doesn't want this poly arrangement to go on. He knows this, and yet he continues to communicate with you, at your insistence and instigation. He is almost as passive as you are.

The way they work things is and has been befuddling to me.

It's true that Winter continues to communicate with me and see me to the extent that he does today, but it's not at my insistence or instigation, but it's my choice obviously if I want to stop seeing him or stop communicating with him. As I mentioned, I took space for many years without speaking to him after ending things and asking him to not contact me, which he did not. If I asked him to do so again, he would respect that to..
But outside of that, in your personal life, you can make changes. You don't have to wait. You KNOW you are bending yourself in pretzels to grasp to the life raft of Winter, which is barely afloat. You are torturing yourself.

His wife will still resent you even if you move closer. Don't you see that? It will still suck. Winter is making bad choices. Both of you seem to be lacking in self respect.

If you really really think things will be better in a few years, when his kids move out, you could cut ties for now and give it time. Don't worry if HE gets anxious if you go no-contact. That's his feeling to deal with. I don't know if things WILL get better now. He's told you point blank he will never leave his wife. You could take him at his word.

I believe he has no intention of leaving the marriage, he has always made this clear. In addition, I want him to do what is feels best for him and for the kids too, whatever that means.

I accept that he means it, although admittedly it causes me grief at time still.

My biggest issue with things is not that he is married, because honestly I don't think I want to have a 'nesting partner' persay in general, nor do I have any intention of getting married again myself. I don't believe in lifetime commitments any longer, and am open to a number of arrangements.

I genuinely like living by myself and being completely financially independent, and I would not want that to change. I wouldn't be open to seeing anyone that wants a monogamous full-time relationship, including him. It's not as though I don't feel like I'm not worth it. I'd like to have another man to spend time with, get to know, and maybe have a sexual relationship. What I really am missing most, is having someone to have weekends with and travel, when that becomes a thing again.

Neither of us put any expectation on the other, at this point anyhow, of not seeing other people or being in committed relationships with others.

It does piss me off that Winter does want me to find a (nesting) partner as if he knows what is best for me, and I tell him so. Maybe it would make *him* feel better, but that's not my problem.

I do think he might have more room and time for his personal life outside of his married life when his kids move out.I'm not waiting to explore anything else waiting for that.

I had gone on some standard online dating sites, since meeting someone elsewhere is not doable in the pandemic, but it's just a weird time for everyone. Some of the men I spoke to over the summer were looking for something that might lead towards marriage, or a committed mono relationship. When I told them I had a man in my life, universally that was a non-starter. I guess that leaves if I want to explore things it will probably need to be via poly. It seems a bit tiring to me to think about it, especially with the current state of affairs with Winter.

All of that being said, yes I am in torment.

Space Cadet doesn't want her husband to have a poly relationship with you. But she doesn't accept he does, and then leave him to it, and split. Everyone is choosing to simmer in resentment, together but apart, in passivity, spinning their wheels. Demanding one crumb for herself, with which he agrees, to not actually fuck you. Bleh.

We only live once. Why live in misery, when you have the power to make changes for the better?
And so, yes, I don't want to live feeling the way I do today about things, which is why I told Winter I felt this way and asked him to discuss how we could get out out of this maddening loop.

If we can't find some arrangement that suits, then I rpobably will need to take a break for however long I need it, and that is what I am struggling with, especially since I don't have a real support structure in my life, because of my life issues etc.

I'm looking to change that, but am recognizing I need more support in life. I decided to look for a poly kink friendly therapist and spoke to one today and set up an initial appointment. I hadn't even considered until recently that there were options like this, although I do have to pay for it myself, it's worth it. I have a lot of need of general support and help sorting through all of this tuff related to Winter, and what model for relationships might work for me, and how to go about it.

I feel greatly relieved after I did this. I think it will be a big step in the right direction, and will help me address my mental health in general.

Anna Xx
 

annabelle

Member
I feel like he is encouraging her to believe that he hasn't actively made choices and is passively allowing his wife to make them for him. He is passively accepting of what she needs as the priority but he has actively chosen to do that. He isn't his wife's victim.... he's her husband and this is how they work their marriage. Neither of them want that to change.
I agree with this. I've pointed out to him that those things are his choices. He may say he can't this or that when it comes to her, but the fact is that he is and has been for a long time, which doesn't give me much confidence that he wants to at all. Not speaking about his time commitments here.

It's up to him how much he chooses to remain this way. I don't think he looks forward to tangling with the how they work their marriage, and as you said what motivation is there, unless it's something he wants to do.
 
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