Irony Is Dead

Ostrich

Member
It's been a couple of weeks since I've posted on this, but there has been another huge development in our lives, so here goes.

There is a guy, who I will call 'Teach', whom DAG and I have been following on social media. The guy is prolific, and seems to be involved in everything to do with education. Plus, he is good looking. So two items have been checked: Good looking and intelligent. He and DAG started chatting/texting, and hit it off. Teach then reached out to me, since I am DAG's husband. We hit it off, even though it's not as intense of a connection as his connection with DAG.

Teach also has a partner, Banker. Banker and I have been in contact, and we've hit it off, more so than my connection with Teach. We all have the same similar experiences with poly. Both Teach and DAG are very outgoing, and have a long list of friends. Teach considers himself to be demisexual. I think DAG would fall under the same umbrella. Both Teach and DAG have been actively explored poly, and are interested in exploring more. They also love to talk, and discuss everything under the sun.

Banker and I have several things in common as well. We are both quiet, and don't talk much (to our detriment). We both want to practice the poly lifestyle, but want to dip our toe in the water, not jump right in (unlike Teach and DAG). We both have our challenges dating and living with such outgoing men. It's an interesting parallel, to the point where Teach made the comment that we must be from alternate universes.

I like Teach, and want to get to know him more. I am not expecting my relationship to him to be on the same level as his and DAGs, but I would welcome it if it did. I feel more connected to his partner at this time, and would like to explore it more. There are even several sexual interested that at least two of us share.

So what's different about my perspective on these two from Bruiser and Fisticuffs? First, I am far more awake and involved regarding the relationships between the four of us. I am listening more fully to DAG, and what he tells me. I feel my comprehension skills have greatly improved, but more work still needs to be done. I am also more aware of what DAG wants out of life and am accepting of those wants. With that, I feel like I am entering these relationships on the ground floor, not later in the relationship developing process. As described above, I feel more connected to Teach and Banker than I did with Bruiser and Fisticuffs. Over all, both Teach and Banker seem more 'down to earth' and relatable. Plus, the similarities among the four of us are striking. It's almost scary. As contrast, Bruiser comes off as pompous and a little egotistical. Fisticuffs is relatable, but did not seem too interested in developing any kind of relationship with me, other than 'I know of Ostrich'.

The four of us seem to be interested in getting to know each other more, which puts me at ease. If there were no interest from Teach or Banker to know me better, I would definitely feel left out. That is something for me to work on. They don't have to like me and I don't have to like them. However, it makes me feel wanted. Especially since we have several things in common. That is huge. If we only had a few things, or nothing at all in common, I would feel comfortable in not having a friendship with them.

One other thing before I close this post. I am really reigning in the NRE on this situation. In previous experiences, I let NRE get the best of me, only to be disappointed when the relationship died early (or what I considered to be early). I still need to learn how to process DAG's NRE. I feel he can go overboard sometimes, and I let it get me into jealousy/envious moods. I'll have to revisit some texts/articles covering this topic.

As always, more to come.
 
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Ostrich

Member
So Polo wants to spend the night tonight with DAG, at our place. I mentioned Polo briefly in a couple of posts in this blog. While I like Polo, he has a 'do as I say, not as I do' attitude. While he can be on his phone at anytime and any place, talking to whomever, if DAG starts texting or talking with his friends, Polo gets pissed. I'm including this, so the reader has some information about Polo. This is DAG's relationship, not mine. DAG feeds off the drama/tension Polo creates. Beats the fuck out of me, but OK, it's his relationship.

Anyway, DAG told me that Polo would be spending the night tonight with him. I am fine with that. My only ask to DAG was for him to come back to our bed before I get up in the morning. Nope, not happening. DAG wants to stay the full night with Polo. Fine, that's DAG's decision. I will not hold that against him.

All this to say: I am oddly OK with this whole situation. This is a new feeling to me. In the past, I would have been a little upset (OK, a lot upset), but not so much now. It will feel odd without DAG in bed with me, but that leaves me to do what I want. Glad I bought a new bottle of lube. Also, more time to spend in Skyrim! I need a new hobby :)
 

Ostrich

Member
Things with Teach and Banker have been going very well. We text each other individually, as well as group text, and video chat with all four of us.

I am in a much better place emotionally. I feel more connected to these two, as they seem more open with getting to know me better than Bruiser and Fisticuffs. My conversations with Teach have been very good, and a lot of fun. He is an amazing man, and I definitely want to know more about him. Banker is more reserved, but opens up every now and then. I like him as well, and want to get to know him better as well.

This is how I think DAG and I should have been practicing poly since the beginning. I should have been more aware and comprehending of DAG's communications with me much better than I did. We all are getting to know each other more and more. Any issues are quickly addressed, and clarifications are provided in communications. This is much easier on my psyche and emotional aspect of these relationships, therefore, easier to move forward in developing these relationships. While I can only suppose what might have happened (and does that really do anybody any good?) I think my relationship with Bruiser and Fisticuffs would have gone in a more positive direction, had we approached these relationships in the same manner. Or not. I think Bruiser is a pompous ass, so maybe not so much with him.

While Teach and Banker have issues to work out between them, at least they are trying. DAG and I had a really good session with our counselor, with some homework for me to do before our next session. I am in the process of finding a new counselor for myself, so I can work on my own issues.

While I haven't talked to DAG about this, because it is far too early in this relationship process to know where the relationships with Teach and Banker are going, I'd really like to be in some form of a quad relationship with them (very, very loosely, we kind of are now, at least in my definition. YMMV). I find them both attractive, both smart (or very smart), and have good outlooks/dispositions. I am probably the Eeyore of the group, but I am working on getting my outlook on life in a better position.

As to the other relationships with the people listed in my signature block: Bruiser hasn't been in any kind of contact with DAG for a month. I opined to DAG that I thought their relationship was DOA. I still think it's shitty of Bruiser to go dark on DAG, but that's their business, not mine. I am less sure about DAG's relationship with Fisticuffs. I know they text each other every now and then, but it is nowhere near the same amount/level as it was a couple of months ago. DAG still wants to explore his kink, preferably with Fisticuffs, but I am not sure if Fisticuffs in reciprocal to that idea.

Geyser: He and I text everyday, but when I suggest we meet during the weekends, he turns me down for various reasons. While I sincerely believe those reasons are legit, I don't think he is interested in rekindling our relationship. Great guy though and I let him know I am here for him, should he need to talk.

Onyx: He and I text as well, and he keeps in touch with DAG. Great guy, and I could see something happening among the three of us, but he lives 5 hours away, so in person interactions are few and far in between. It's great to get to know him as well. I really enjoy virtually interacting with him. Plus, his dog and our dogs get along great!!!

I don't want to jinx this with too much optimism, but I do really feel much, much better now. While I wouldn't wish what experienced in the past year on anyone, growth cannot be experienced without pain.

More later!!
 

Ostrich

Member
More soul searching and work to be done.

In the past, I have been very passive aggressive with DAG. I'll say I'm fine with a situation which has developed between DAG and me, only to realize I am not really fine with it, and then I act out on that 'not fine' feeling. I've done it several times, to the point where DAG does not trust me when I say 'I am fine'. It's toxic and has worn down my relationship with DAG to the point where if I do it again, he's out the door.

I apologize to the readers of this blog. I feel like I have not been truly honest in putting myself out there, and giving readers the full story. In my defense, I needed to fully process this issue before posting. I am seeking help. I found a new counselor, and have my first session with them today.

Of course, the issue is all about communication, and how I relate to DAG. We get into arguments, and I have little to say, because I am trying to process my thoughts, and say the right thing. DAG and our marriage counselor say that I need to say whatever is on my mind at the moment, and then I can provide clarity afterward.

That is tough for me, as I am not fully in touch with my emotions. I'll say something from my gut, and then try to figure out why I said it. What I say comes from some emotion which I can't identify. DAG then questions me, trying to get to the bottom of what is driving that emotion, and I come up empty.

Which is frustrating for both of us. He is tired of walking me through my emotions. He says he spends his time asking me questions to get to the bottom of things, when he could be spending time dealing with his own emotions based on my reaction to the given situation.

For example, one day he asked me if we are a 'unit'. I said no, based on my definition of the word 'unit'. He felt like a bomb had been dropped on him. We discussed why I answered 'no'. I told him because our relationship does not resemble anything like the one we had when we first got married. I've had to disassemble our relationship in my head, in order to process his need to 'Do What I Want'. We've had this same conversation, just using different points of reference. If I didn't do this, we would still be in the same boat of 'Ostrich doesn't want you to do that' and 'Yes, DAG does'.

During this 'unit' discussion, I could not fully explain why I did not consider us to be a 'unit'. He was really upset that I could not provide an explanation immediately. He has a point. Why am I not more in touch with my emotions in the moment? Why can't I communicate my intent, my emotions to DAG? This is why I am considered to be passive aggressive. I try to be OK with things at first, but then I realize I am not, and then act on that. I've told him in the past. In the past, I've told DAG that I will get back to him on what I'm thinking, once I more fully process my feelings and emotions. Sometimes, that is not good enough for him. He wants me to process things more quickly, so we can get to the bottom of my emotions in a timely manner, so we can resolve whatever issues I have. I get it. But I need to process things on my own schedule, so I can give him accurate information concerning my thoughts and feelings.

This is what I want to work on with the new counselor. My ability to communicate, and my ability to process my feelings before I get passive-aggressive with DAG.

I am sure I have more to this, but this is me processing it out in pixels. A data dump, if you will. I will more than likely more fully communicate my issues with this particular part of my life, once I work my issues out after meeting with my counselor.

More to come.
 
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Ostrich

Member
O.M.G. That is how we process in a nutshell.

DAG = Spewer
Ostrich = Chewer.

And I really like those three on the Multiarmory site. I watched their video about men and how they relate to their male metamours. That interview was very helpful to me. I've seen their vids which relate to my situation. All really good and thoughtful (at least in my opinion).

Thank you for the link!!
 

YouAreHere

Active member
This situation speaks to me... Chops used to spring questions on me like that, and I'd blurt out an answer without really taking the time to chew on it (I'm a chewer, clearly), and it would sometimes lead to really awful miscommunications that, when I *was* able to articulate my feelings, were more able to be cleared up.

Dag's need to discuss things RIGHT NOW does not trump your need to sit and chew on something for a while before being able to find the right words/ideas. Chops finally got better at letting me think about something for a while (and I finally got better about not feeling like I needed to provide an answer right at that moment). I don't think it's all on you, I think it's about reaching a compromise... maybe agreeing on a time in the future to discuss, after you've had time. If Dag can't deal with that, it seems really unfair. Your communication style isn't *wrong*, and it's unfair to treat it as such.

Might be worth bringing up during a joint counseling session.
 

icesong

Member
As a definite definite person on the “want to discuss things immediately” side of this spectrum, one thing I think that people on the more-slowly-processing side of the spectrum don’t understand about those who want to discuss THEN process (or process by discussing) is that the lack of resolution while waiting is just as painful for us as having to talk before you’re ready is as painful for you. So even _acknowledging_ that uncertainty and how hard it is can help, even if I can’t get an answer to what I’m asking instantly - it feels less like I’m being forced to live in limbo and more like I’m trying to be good to my partner by not demanding something, IF the fact that I’m doing something I don’t want to is acknowledged.

And I think it’s unfair that DAG is asking for both instant answers AND perfect accuracy - like, if I ask for answers in the “I know you haven’t processed this yet but what’s your first thought?” sort of way, I explicitly acknowledge that whatever answer I get is subject to change.
 

Ostrich

Member
As a definite definite person on the “want to discuss things immediately” side of this spectrum, one thing I think that people on the more-slowly-processing side of the spectrum don’t understand about those who want to discuss THEN process (or process by discussing) is that the lack of resolution while waiting is just as painful for us as having to talk before you’re ready is as painful for you. So even _acknowledging_ that uncertainty and how hard it is can help, even if I can’t get an answer to what I’m asking instantly - it feels less like I’m being forced to live in limbo and more like I’m trying to be good to my partner by not demanding something, IF the fact that I’m doing something I don’t want to is acknowledged.

And I think it’s unfair that DAG is asking for both instant answers AND perfect accuracy - like, if I ask for answers in the “I know you haven’t processed this yet but what’s your first thought?” sort of way, I explicitly acknowledge that whatever answer I get is subject to change.
He does not like it when I tell him I'll get back to him on answers. I think it's because I can't give him a time frame on when to expect answers (it's not like I can process feelings on deadline). He says he feels abandoned and confused if I don't answer him right away, which is dead on regarding the negatives to being a 'chewer'. I feel rushed and nervous if I answer right away. It literally leaves me speechless. I cannot speak when I am under pressure like that.
 

TinCup

New member
I, like @icesong and Dag am a spewer. My wife, like you, is a chewer. Abandonment and confusion are feelings Dag has expressed that I can understand. When I leaned into this I found the fear driving them was that of not being heard and my concern being dropped. What I've asked my wife to do for me is to ask questions or make statements as time goes so that I can see and feel that the chewing is happening. I'm not expecting the answer on a deadline but some form of confirmation that we are still talking about "it".

To be fair:

When I go full on spew my wife gets emotional and locks up under pressure too. She has told me that behind this emotion is the fear that she isn't a good or proper partner because she can't answer right away. She has asked that I be aware when she calls timeout (this can be harder than it sounds) and pick up the conversation at a later time. I know that if I overload her then the conversation will slow which is not what I want.

A spewer is willing to let fly an idea and fix the wrongness as we go.
A chewer wants to fix the wrongness and then let fly the idea.

Nobody is right or wrong here. Just how we are wired.
 

Ostrich

Member
TinCup:
When I leaned into this I found the fear driving them was that of not being heard and my concern being dropped
DAG communication concern is that he wants to be heard. My communication concern is that I want to be understood.

His stems from his childhood, growing up with 9 cousins (they all lived very close to each other), so he had to compete to be heard. Mine stems from not being able to really articulate what I feel, and what I truly want. Growing up, I was misunderstood when verbalizing ideas, not because of issues in relating socially.
 

Ostrich

Member
Teach is coming today to visit us for a week. I am excited about that. While DAG and Teach are more connected to each other than I am with Teach, I still look forward to meeting him. He and I had some really good telephone conversations and texts. An amazing man, and I want to know more about him. I have been reading his book, and I have lots of questions and discussion points for him.

If DAG sleeps/fools around with/gets boned by Teach, I am fine with that (I am such the romantic). A three way would be awesome!

Here's what impressed me about him. He knew DAG was married, and reached out to me on his own to introduce himself, and get to know me. I know metas aren't obligated to do that, but damn, he's showing interest in me, and as he said to me, he's being respectful of DAG's and my relationship. HUGE bonus points. If Bruiser had done that with me, I would have been a little more receptive to his and DAG's relationship. Fisticuffs didn't reach out to me, but at least he showed interest in getting to know me by meeting me one-on-one early on in his relationship with DAG. He gets an honorable mention. LOL. Again, I know metas don't have to get along, or even know each other. To me, it makes a HUGE difference in how much more receptive I am of DAG's relationships outside ours.

More to come.
 
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Ostrich

Member
The visit with Teach was awesome. A great guy, who is easy to speak with, thereby easy to get to know. We welcomed him with open arms. A few days before his visit, he and Banker broke up, so he was not in good spirits when he arrived. DAG and I welcomed him with open arms. He brought his work computer, so he could work at our house. I pulled out all the stops and cooked for us (the pecan pies were a huge hit). My attraction to him was immediate. First, he's very sharp and smart. Second, he has a great personality (as mentioned above), very social, and wants to be open to us. Third, I consider him to be good looking. Like me, his looks aren't everyone's cup of tea, but his looks works for me.

Everything went well! No drama among the three of us. The only issue was that Teach had a friend over to spend the night, and I didn't tell DAG about it until the next morning. In my defense, DAG was asleep well before the decision was made for the friend to sleep over. DAG goes to be early, and gets up early to hit the gym. I should have told him as soon as he got home from working out. That caused some friction, but we worked it out. I take the responsibility for that, since it is our house and anything which happens in our house is our responsibility. Not that I didn't trust Teach and his friend, but anything could have happened while the friend was there, and it would have been on DAG and I to deal with the situation.

DAG was a little jealous of the sleep over, as DAG had a habit of going to Teach's room in the morning to cuddle. He decided against it that particular morning, without knowing a visitor was in Teach's room. DAG was not too happy about that, either.

Teach and I got a little closer emotionally with each other. I now have a low-key crush on him. I told DAG about it, and then let Teach know. DAG does not have a problem with it, as far as I can tell. He and Teach are still more emotionally closer than Teach and I, but at least it's a start. I want to grow my relationship with Teach and I think he is of the same mind, if not on the same level as me regarding our attachment. I am fine with that. I can't make him like me, much less love me. I've always been OK with others not feeling the same for me as I feel for them. To me, that's how relationships work. When we are on the same level, it is magical, but I'll accept an un-level relationship without being upset about it.

Teach and I keep in contact on a daily basis through texts. He also let me in on a little secret of his, of which I knew was a test. I am fine with it being a test, as that's how he knows to trust me. I passed with flying colors :)

As far as my new counseling sessions are going, I think I like the new counselor. He's brought up a few things for me to think about, especially regarding my previous relationships. In a positive light, DAG is forcing me (whether he knows it or not) to deal with the ins and outs of a LTR. Other relationships, I could end without more fully processing with my feelings about myself and others. Marriage changes everything thing. While there have been really negative situations in our relationship regarding the practice of polyamory, the past has finally been put to rest and we can move on with making new relationships (romantic or not). I feel very good about the future, from a relationship standpoint.

I'll post up more of DAG's relationship adventures in another post.

Stay tuned!
 
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