Mono Couple becomes Poly Couple

What do I even do? I feel like everytime she does something that hurts me I'm the asshole. Am I the asshole? I don't even know. I feel like I'm not allowed to feel how I'm feeling. I feel like every time I need reassurance all I get is scorn. When is it ok for me to need something? Is it not okay for me to feel this way? Am I crazy? I keep wondering if this relationship is toxic. Is it me or is it just our circumstances? Is it clear what I need? It's not the sex I really need. I need to feel desired. Is it crazy to need that in a relationship? I need someone to tell me what the answer is. I don't know what to do or if I'm in the wrong and I feel like I'm losing my mind!
 
I feel sad for you. You don't feel safe at home, or in your relationship with Spitfire. :(

So there I was, feeling like I was basically Spitfire's friend/roomate who sleeps in the same room and pays for everything.

Sounds like you are. :(

Spitfire doesn't feel emotionally secure and safe with me. She needs that strong emotional security in a partner to have that sexual drive.

Spitfire also does not provide YOU with emotional safety. Screaming in your face she wanted a divorce in front of the kids 2 days before Christmas and you wholeheartedly agreeing. Then stormed out and went to Bashir's house. Then came back that she loves you and wants marriage counseling.

Up and down and all around everywhere here.

Towards the end the dude asks me what I want out of life. Spitfire very accurately says "he can't answer that question. He doesn't know."

Spitfire jumps in to answer for you rather than giving you your fair space in therapy? You don't get to be safe there either?

When worded as "what are you working towards" an answer comes to mind. I work my ass off so that one day I can live somewhere nice where I can finally relax and feel safe.

So basically you don't feel safe at home or in the relationship with Spitfire? Just have trouble saying it "out loud?"

I'm super shitty about setting and enforcing my boundaries. It takes monumental effort for me to express my desires and needs.

Cuz you aren't safe here and any sign of you being authentic and real will get mowed down?

Finally I said to myself, I'm allowed to be mad and by 2 I'd worked up the courage to tell her how I felt. I shot her a message on Facebook figuring it'd give her a chance to absorb it so I didn't trigger her as soon as she walked through the door. I told her I was annoyed and that I felt taken advantage of. No answer. Not seen. No I'm shaking. I'm nervous and scared because I assumed it popped up and she saw enough to get pissed and annoyed. I start shaking.

Read that again.

You have to convince yourself it is ok to be mad you got stuck with the kid care. But you are preparing for the blow up. You aren't safe here expressing how you really feel.

I'm worried about your well being now that you also have bad sleep and panic attacks. :(

Am I crazy? I keep wondering if this relationship is toxic. Is it me or is it just our circumstances? Is it clear what I need? It's not the sex I really need. I need to feel desired. Is it crazy to need that in a relationship? I need someone to tell me what the answer is. I don't know what to do or if I'm in the wrong and I feel like I'm losing my mind!
This relationship is not healthy sounding for you. :(

It's like you keep on trying to convince yourself Spitfire is an "awesome wife" like being your own con man.

Because your actual LIVED experience with her is being taken for granted, very fearful, not feeling safe, upset all the time, jumping through hoops, mind readering to appease the Volcano Goddess so she doesn't blow at your head, trying to be "perfect" etc.

Your health is starting to break down in major ways. This relationship IS toxic for you. :(

You are not hitting healthy relationship markers here with Spitfire.


How does the relationship with Jason hit on that healthy relationship wheel and second page chart? You seem to LIKE that Jason doesn't make you feel shit for having feelings. You can be authentic with him. Is that true?

I'm proud of you for trying to take better care of you, keeping your notebook, identifying your triggers. All of that.

I also think you could get a wee bit brave about saying it "out loud" SOMEWHERE in real life. If even at a whisper. In private.

"I'm scared that I'm more into Spitfire than she is into me. I'm scared staying here is harming me and this is a toxic relationship. I'm scared to think about life without her too."

I think you might consider some INDIVIDUAL sessions with counselor.

I think you could practice saying that out loud to them.

Maybe practice thinking about divorce with them. Imagine creating an ACTUAL safe home for you and the kids if you share custody so they aren't growing up watching Mom verbally abuse Dad like the screaming divorce threats at Xmas.

What could that home be like?

I can only imagine how hard this is on you. :(

I'm so sorry. Keep going though. Keep reaching for healthier you. Baby steps.

You have value and dignity. You deserve to be treated well.
 
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I can't believe that. I have to believe we can do better. This can get better with time, communication and work. If we get a divorce, I can't keep the kids. I'd be setting them on the same road to abandonment I've been walking my whole life. "It doesn't matter why dad is gone, he just left us." Plus, with her autism and panic attacks, Spitfire can't hold down a 9-5 job. I don't want to hurt her. I just want to feel wanted.

What if I throw away all I want when all we needed was for the childcare assistance to come through so we could breathe? Or what if it's really me and I'm just misrepresenting the situation through my own lens!? What if it's me and I'm just catastrophizing everything? I don't even trust myself anymore.

I don't mean to sound like the blind and ungrateful idiot. I do see what you mean and appreciate you pointing it out but if we're being honest, everything you said has already gone through my head but I can't trust that I'm not wrong. If I'm not then I have to deal with "is it worth it to sacrifice my life for theirs?" That is a really sad and scary thought. There is no me anymore. I'm just an appendage that serves the collective. Resistance is futile.
 
This is why I suggest you talk to an individual counselor. You need professional help. Even just THINKING the thoughts in an anonymous board sends you panicking to the maximum doom place?

What if there's middle stepping stones yet to try? But you cannot see them if you get all busy wigging out?

I have to believe we can do better. This can get better with time, communication and work.
There's a lot of middle stepping stone "coulds" you could safely and quietly explore with a counselor. Nothing actually changing. No worrying about how much it would cost. Just... talking with a safe, private person and trying it on in your head. Nobody is gonna MAKE you do anything you don't want. Or make you go faster than you can go. Just.... unclenching.

Cuz you sound wound up tighter than a tick.

Ok?

What if part of the work right now is....

To have separate bedrooms in this home? So you can have that safe space? What could that look like? Just for pretend. Nothing real. Just trying it on in your head.

Not living together for a year? Maybe there's just been TOO MUCH togetherness with the stress of parenting special needs kids? I kept reading "escape" a lot. What could that look like? Just for pretend. Nothing real. Just trying it on.

A regular sitter? So you and Spitfire can catch a break TOGETHER? What could that look like? Just for pretend. Nothing real. Just trying it on.

Since she cannot hold a 9-5... could Spitfire maybe do something part time once a week for a few hours? Paid work or volunteer? So she's got something else going on in her life besides child care? What could that look like? Just for pretend. Nothing real. Just trying it on.

I don't mean to sound like the blind and ungrateful idiot. I do see what you mean and appreciate you pointing it out but if we're being honest, everything you said has already gone through my head but I can't trust that I'm not wrong. If I'm not then I have to deal with "is it worth it to sacrifice my life for theirs?" That is a really sad and scary thought. There is no me anymore. I'm just an appendage that serves the collective. Resistance is futile.


That's jumping too far ahead to me. I think you have to get your anxious/panic attack thing under management first.

I don't know what that needs for your case -- talk therapy, meds, combinations of things, or what. Hence why I suggest talking to a professional. Put your own oxygen mask on first. If you are not well in yourself, I'm not sure how much couple counseling can do right now.

I'm going to stop. I mean that kindly, ok? I'm not trying to add to your pile. You have a lot going on.

Know I see you, I do sympathize, and I hope that bit by bit you figure out your next baby steps.

But you DO deserve to be treated well. I hope you decide that YOU can start treating you well.

Even if you can't sleep all that great right now? Try to at least lie down and close eyes and rest the body even if mind has the zoomies right now? Maybe that's a good enough baby step for right now?
 
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I also think you could get a wee bit brave about saying it "out loud" SOMEWHERE in real life. If even at a whisper. In private.

"I'm scared that I'm more into Spitfire than she is into me. I'm scared staying here is harming me and this is a toxic relationship. I'm scared to think about life without her too."

I think you might consider some INDIVIDUAL sessions with counselor.
"I'm scared I'm the one who's toxic." "I'm scared I'm being abused and not seeing it" "I'm scared of what it would mean if I was"
I do have my own therapist apart from the marriage counselor. The marriage counselor told me I had a lot of work to do on myself to get to where Spitfire's at. Part of the reason I'm not sold that I'm not the one who's toxic.
 
"I'm scared I'm the one who's toxic." "I'm scared I'm being abused and not seeing it" "I'm scared of what it would mean if I was"
I do have my own therapist apart from the marriage counselor. The marriage counselor told me I had a lot of work to do on myself to get to where Spitfire's at. Part of the reason I'm not sold that I'm not the one who's toxic.
Why would you *want* to be where Spitfire is at? Her marriage is falling apart, and she is unable to support herself financially, she's exhausted, and instead of dealing with all this, she's all caught up in her new sex partners. Surely she can see that you, BrokenArrow, cannot go on like this. And that isn't weakness on your part. You deserve someone who wants to fuck you. You deserve to feel safe and seen and heard.

Wishing you the best.
 
"I'm scared I'm the one who's toxic." "I'm scared I'm being abused and not seeing it" "I'm scared of what it would mean if I was"
I do have my own therapist apart from the marriage counselor. The marriage counselor told me I had a lot of work to do on myself to get to where Spitfire's at. Part of the reason I'm not sold that I'm not the one who's toxic.
When I was in couple's counseling with my ex husband, our counselor also felt I was making more progress than he was. After one year of weekly sessions, she basically told him there was nothing else she could do for him, since he was stuck at a certain place in trying to deal with his childhood trauma. He could not face going any deeper. He also refused to take the antidepressants she recommended. His childhood trauma was affecting every part of his adult relationship with me, making it extremely difficult to actually relate in a healthy way with each other. He was paranoid, passive aggressive, sarcastic, judgmental of me, could not feel that I loved him, etc. So, the counselor let him go, refused to keep seeing him.

At that time we were both also doing weekly individual therapy. He quit his individual counseling then, but I went on to do 3 years total. I see you are not quitting therapy, so kudos to you! I am not saying you are exhibiting the same symptoms as my ex. They are quite different. But he also had abandonment issues.

I carried on being married to him for about 8 more years, becoming more and more distant, moving to a different bedroom, making new friends that weren't his friends, from whom I got support. Long story short, we finally broke up when our 3 kids were 16, 19 and 21. I stayed for the kids. Our oldest said she wished we broken up years earlier, but the other 2 took the breakup harder. We eventually worked it all out. It was even an amicable breakup. We became good co-parents of our young adult kids. (Our middle child was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder at age 16, which made breaking up much harder.)

My ex found a new partner during our marriage, who has more in common with him. I found a new poly partner within months of our breakup, and have polydated ever since. I now have a 2nd serious partner and a really great life, with people who appreciate and desire me. <3

I just wanted to share a bit of my story to show how things can work out for the better if you don't keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It may be you've outgrown your wife, like I'd outgrown my ex. No one is to blame. Most of our relationships do not last a lifetime. We can enjoy them when they are good, and accept when paths have to diverge. You're not an asshole or a villain. You're just human. A flawed human being, just like EVERYONE ELSE.
 
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Is she at all interested in becoming a better hinge? Putting her phone away when you two are having massage time? Not exacerbating your polyhell?

Like a fucking idiot I tell her what's going through my mind. She's hurt and pissed.
Not a "fucking idiot", a partner who was asked a question and answered it honestly.

Then she didn't take any care of you but instead got all defensive, like someone who knows they are in the wrong but won't own up to it.

But sloppy hinges can be better. Is she willing to read the polyhell article, see what you're going through and what her role in that is?

And just on the "deeper massage" note, do you always have to ask her for sex? Could consent be gained in a way where she doesn't have to verbally respond?
 
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  • "I'm scared I'm the one who's toxic."

  • "I'm scared I'm being abused and not seeing it"
    • "I'm scared of what it would mean if I was"

Have you said these things to your individual therapist who has been working with you longer?

Have you been honest and up front with your individual therapist about your marriage problems?

You don't sound ready for heavy abuse resources.

You sound barely at the place of wondering / naming it "abuse" / whispering it out loud.

And that is ok. You tried it on here in anon space. That might be enough for this moment. Maybe you need time to sit with the idea quietly.

Later? When you feel up to it? I encourage you to keep ON speaking your truth. If even at a whisper. Preferably to your individual therapist.

And you can keep using anon space here how you wish.

YOU get to decide the pace. YOU get to decide what you do and do not do.

The marriage counselor told me I had a lot of work to do on myself to get to where Spitfire's at. Part of the reason I'm not sold that I'm not the one who's toxic.

Is this marriage counselor since Xmas? Past general intake initial sessions, right? But maybe not enough sessions yet to know the whole story? Esp if Spitfire butts in to speak FOR you in therapy?

It is possible BOTH of you do poor behaviors and do not bring out the best in each other.

To me you sound like you are blaming yourself for ALL the things because that's what Spitfire does and you are used to that.

Again... speak your truth. If even at a whisper.

Maybe another thought to try on in safe space is....

"Ok. We probably both have a share in the situation making. Exactly which parts are ACTUALLY my responsibilities? And not like just shove everything on me?"

Maybe you want an individual session with the marriage counselor so you can speak more freely? Something to think about maybe.

No pressure and no rush. Nobody but you needs to know you are trying on some "maybes" in your head.

I will tell you that you deserve to be treated well.
 
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Yesterday I went to therapy. I had been up all night after my last post. I hadn't eaten in about a day. I was teetering on the edge of a breakdown. I got showered and dressed for work around 3am. I realize if I can't sleep by that point I need to be dressed and ready in case I fall asleep and miss my alarm. Around 5 I figure if I drive to work I can just sleep in the car in the parking garage and if I oversleep, I'm already at work. Dozed off for about 15 minutes before Spitfire called asking where I was. I think she was worried I'd killed myself or something because I'd left her a long message about my feelings and how I was hurting. I don't really feel comfortable putting our exchange down here but I'm worried if I don't then I'm misrepresenting her.

I love you. I can't stand hurting this way. It's so much. I have so much unresolved pain. It's fucking agony. I'm so tired but I'm so fucking sad. I want to make this work. I need you to understand me. I don't feel loved, I feel tolerated. Every time I tell you I'm hurting i feel like you don't empathize, you shame me or get frustrated with me. You're like the only person I've got that I'm this vulnerable with but you don't have the time or the energy for. I'm just the bad kid acting out all over again. I'm too exhausting. No one has time for my bull shit. I'm still stuck and no one will listen. If I keep trying someone is going to hurt me. Why is it you? I don't understand where I stand with you. I feel like I'm just in your way. I feel like all the kids and I do is stress you out and you don't want to be around us so you keep leaving. Typing it out, that's just like my mom. Why does being too much feel like being not enough? I keep looking for a way to feel like you want me, like I'm not just something you have to put up with. Sex is easy. It's not about the sex, it's about a clear sign that you want me. That's why I need you to initiate it. I feel like you don't want me and if I try to force to the issue than it muddies the message of whether you want me or not. Our relationship right now hurts so bad. I'm desperate for proof that your not just staying with me because you're trapped. That's it's easier to just stay with me than face the world without me. When you say things like "we're trapped in this marriage" or "I'd be so fucked if you died" it feels like your saying that's the only reason you're still here and you're going to get away from me any way you can. Whether it's getting out of the house or hiding away in the room. It hurts so bad. I'm still that same little boy begging for attention that no one wants to give and pissing everyone off.

After calling to figure out where I was, what I got back was:
I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm currently taking care of CHILD and have been for the last 48 hours..so I don't have anything nice to say at this point. But yes...I sacrificed everything just to use you. You caught me BrokenArrow. I can't keep getting beat into a mental pulp everyday and expected to keep functioning. You're slowly killing me and you literally won't stop or let up. Sex is NOT easy for me and the fact that you think it is for me just goes to show how little you understand my needs as a person, but again. It doesn't matter because sex validates you so I should just want to do it right? Yeah exactly. You want something you currently haven't earned and your pissed and throwing a fit about it. Real eye opening for me. When your needs aren't met...you spiral until you get what you what from me. Not this time. I'm not going to just hand you what you want because you think 3 weeks of therapy is what I was talking about. We have fundamental issues. I want to work on them, but I'm constantly met with this behavior. And at this point I can't even get reprive from it to even process how I feel. It's just rapid fire feom you constantly

This is why I'm worried I'm the one in the wrong. I feel like the problem is me coming to her with my feelings is tearing her down but she keeps doing things that hurt my feelings and I need her to understand how she's hurting me. But I know that what she wrote back is not true and she misunderstood the part about sex so I typed back:
48 hours ago you were still asleep at Bashir's. 72 hours ago you were asleep at home while I got Child and Visiting Friend's Child breakfast. 96 hours ago you were asleep at home as I was just pulling in which woke up Child who then told me a very lengthy story about fighting monsters at school. My point is, I took care of the kids almost all weekend except for the 12 hours I spent at Jason's and a few hours here and there. It feels like it counts for nothing in your book. As for the part about sex is easy... I meant easy to explain why it mattered to me. Not because you are an object to me but because I need some sort of way to prove to myself I'm more than just a friend to you. And it hasn't been 3 weeks that my needs haven't been met. It's been 4 months, which included a very damaging instance of you screaming at me and dressing me down in front of the kids and you hurting me by breaking a serious boundary all over again. Can you see why I might be falling apart a little bit? Everything I mentioned is a major issue for me that you trivialize and ignore. I feel like I'm trying to hold this relationship together and you don't really care unless it's me acknowledging and thanking you for all you do. Only your wants and needs matter to you. I feel like mine are only loosely tolerated.

She exploded:
I LITERALLY CANT SEE STROAGHT AND UOU JUAT KEEP GOING

I'm fucking done

I'm not going to that appt today

Just fucking divorce me and be done with it, so I can get my brain back from being constantly berated

I came to you looking to fix this marriage.

You fuxking remember that

So I just got out of my car and went into work early. I did my best and handled as much as was within my scope before I left for my appointment. I figured at least the therapist might be able to help me figure out what I'm doing wrong. Maybe she can set me straight and I can just be better.

This time both my counselor and a psychologist were in the room with me. That's fine. I figure it's just an oversight thing. More people more help, right. They ask me to tell them what's been going on and I recount the thing about Spitfire coming home late and I'm talking about the stuff from the other night and finally the psychologist just says "STOP".

She held up her hand and said "You're being abused. You're being emotionally abused. You need to leave or it's just going to keep happening." I knew she was right. I tried to argue, bargain, come up with a way to just get over it. My one hour session got extended to two hours while they helped me pick up the pieces of my life. This has been going on since the beginning. I kept telling myself things were getting better but in reality they were only getting worse. "Look at what's happening to your body. These are symptoms of abuse.""Of course you can't keep a healthy boundary. You've been getting cut down every time you tried for years." I walked out of there barely holding myself together and went right to my kid's autism consult with Spitfire four floors down. I told her I was still planning on staying at Jason's that night and we needed to talk when I came home but I was too raw from therapy to talk now. We parted ways and I drove to Jason's house and spent the rest of the night finally seeing all the things I had been willfully ignoring all this time.

My marriage is not healthy. It is not safe. I am not safe. Spitfire is an amazing mother but she is not a good partner and our relationship will hurt our kids.

I went home this morning to tell her that. I told her we need to end this. It's not healthy for either of us. She broke down and begged me to stay. It fucking killed me to see her in so much pain. She begged me not to abandon her. I agreed to continue marriage counseling but insisted we separate while we work on this. I'm scared that was the wrong move. I'm scared I'm just falling back into the same pattern of abuse. I know she doesn't mean to do it on purpose but I don't know if she can ever stop. She tells me that I'm emotionally abusive too but we can both change. I make her a cup of coffee before I leave. She's flipping back and forth between being angry and being devastated. She said something incredibly vindictive and I just pointed it out and said this is why I can't stay here. I only got to hug my littlest kid goodbye because my oldest was in the bathroom and I had to get out of there. It hurts so bad. Even now I want to go back there and comfort her but I can't. I hurt her so bad this morning and I feel so guilty. She's not a bad person and she doesn't deserve that heartache. I feel like I just abandoned my family.

I talked to my dad and some friends who have been through divorce about it. They all tell me the same thing. You did the right thing. You didn't abandon your family. You need to take care of yourself right now.

I keep trying to do this but I'm asking myself, was it really so bad? Am I just exaggerating this all in my head? Can we fix this, make it work? Am I being unfair?

I'm going back tomorrow and suggested instead of just tomorrow night she spend the whole weekend at Bashir's. That way I can get to see my kids, handle some of the housework to take the load off her and she can get a break and decompress. I'm nervous but I want to make sure she's okay and that I'm doing the right thing. I need my kids in my life, especially now. I miss them so fucking much already.

I realize that staying with Jason is only temporary. He's not really looking to have me move in, and that's fair. That's not what our relationship is. I appreciate him being there for me this much. I'm scared of what the future holds but I have to just keep slogging through this.

This is a fucking waking nightmare.
 
This is a fucking waking nightmare.

Yes. It is. You have a LOT going on. I'm glad you are under care.

She held up her hand and said "You're being abused. You're being emotionally abused. You need to leave or it's just going to keep happening." I knew she was right. I tried to argue, bargain, come up with a way to just get over it. My one hour session got extended to two hours while they helped me pick up the pieces of my life. This has been going on since the beginning. I kept telling myself things were getting better but in reality they were only getting worse. "Look at what's happening to your body. These are symptoms of abuse.""Of course you can't keep a healthy boundary. You've been getting cut down every time you tried for years."

Glad you were ready to hear it said by professionals and were ready to name it "abuse."

My marriage is not healthy. It is not safe. I am not safe. Spitfire is an amazing mother but she is not a good partner and our relationship will hurt our kids.

Glad you saw in counseling that this relationship shape and how you participate in it needs to change.

You two are not suited for marriage shape.

It's ok to keep showing up for her and the kids as coparent. You are NOT abandoning them.

It's ok to let this group of people transition into something healthier. There is nothing wrong with separated coparenting shape.

If it needs to change again later, to divorce coparenting shape? Deal with that part then.


I went home this morning to tell her that. I told her we need to end this. It's not healthy for either of us. She broke down and begged me to stay. It fucking killed me to see her in so much pain. She begged me not to abandon her. I agreed to continue marriage counseling but insisted we separate while we work on this

Glad you held that line. Stop living together.

Sometimes the body has to leave. In order for the mind and heart to even GET a chance at healing.

I think both of you need that time and space apart. Both of you need REST.

Keep working with the professionals you have. Baby steps.
 
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I don't know if you want to read this, but just from the above: It. Really. Is. That. Bad.

This is the time to put on your own oxygen mask.
 
I never met you, BrokenArrow, and I know I'm just a stranger on the internet, but I am SO GLAD you are finding your way out of this horrible situation.

I know it feels bad now, and it will for a while. But put one foot in front of the other, find a place to live, organize your assets and childcare, take extra good care of yourself. A month or two from now, you'll find your appetite coming back. You'll find you can sleep again. Maybe a few months after that, you might even feel peaceful and safe.
 
Just the fact that she said,
"I'm done. Go ahead, divorce me."
And then as soon as you said "OK, I'm leaving," she screamed and begged you to stay.

Get away. Get some peace.
 
Thank you, everybody, for the kind (and sometimes blunt) words and support. Between this, therapy and some outside research I feel like I can extrapolate some sort of direction to head in when I feel like I can't trust my own head. I'm at home with the kids for the weekend. Spitfire and I talked for hours today. She wanted to stay the night but I told her I still needed the space and I wanted her to go to Bashir's. Not that I've resolved to do anything but I have no resolve when she's around. I want to take her back so bad. I want to believe she can change and that we can fix this. But when I say that it sounds like a cliche line that came out of the mouth of every victim ever.

She clarified what she meant when she said I abused her too. It's all here when you look back through the blog. It was when I was keeping her up at night, hounding her to talk to me about my pain and how hurt and angry I was. When I admitted to her that I had planned on killing myself but couldn't do it because the thought of our kids finding me like that broke me. Her therapist explained to her that was abuse and tried to convince her to leave. But she told me that she never perceived my abuse as malicious. That it hurt her that she stayed while I just decided to leave as soon as my therapist told me the same thing her's had told her. I told her that I perceived her abuse as malicious. I feel that about 50% of the abuse she was trying her best to hurt me and the other 50% was just her being selfish. She says she's afraid of me because I'm the only one left in her life who can bring out her demons. I told her I was afraid of her because she has demons she brings out. That is why I had to leave and why she chose to stay.

I can't just forget how torturous the last few months have been. How broken and neglected and used I've felt. I can't just say fuck it and go wading back in because our relationship is not a wading pool, it is a wave pool and people have been pissing in it. We need to stay separate so I can clear my head and try to find a sense of self. Work on our shit IN therapy. I guess she hasn't been talking to her therapist about our issues because it's the same therapist that told her to leave me. She said she'd already gone through this process and has been waiting for me to get here too. That yes, she'd had been incredibly abusive in the beginning of our marriage but to not forget how much better she'd gotten and how rarely she'd lost control in the last couple years. That she's only going to get better. She'll do anything to be with me. Fuck, we're so fucking unhealthy.

I told her we need to be honest with the therapists about EVERYTHING. No more hiding that we're polyamorous from the marriage counselor so we can dodge his bias. I was against that shit in the first place. In case you all couldn't tell, I'm a full disclosure kind of guy. No more not talking with her therapist about her losing her shit on me and tearing me down. She needs to address that anger and it's triggers for real. Even if this doesn't work out, we can at least walk away better and healthier people if we try our best.

I'm so fucking scared I'm going to do the wrong thing, either way. I have no real internal compass right now. I'm relying solely on reason and incoming data to make the big decisions. All these feelings keep clouding my results. Needs more data.

I realize the hot mess I'm letting unfurl before you. It's been helpful since the very beginning so I just keep rolling with it. Am I ashamed to pour my deepest personal problems onto a page in a public forum? Fuck yes. A part of me is deeply embarrassed to be doing this but, I need to tell someone. Even if it's just myself. I need to see these thoughts written down. More importantly I need to get some fucking sleep and this shit quiets the mind.

It's been a long and confusing day. We were just sitting here on the couch. I was holding my daughter's hand while she wrapped up in a blanket because she had been outside too long and she was "FREEZING TO DEATH!" Spitfire was sitting next to me and my son(to clear up that continuity issue, my oldest came out as trans and is now my step-son and not my step-daughter) was sitting on the other side while we all just watched Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. It felt like nothing was wrong and everything was just back to normal. And then I remembered. Remembered things new and old. I remembered how I used to like to go out places and have fun, and I remembered why that changed. It's like waking up from a nice dream to a fire. I'm in damage control mode now and I need to assess whether or not it's time to give up the ship.

LoveBunny:
Thank you for taking the time to say something kind and reassuring. I hope you're not speaking from experience but, if you are I am sorry.

Evie:
Thank you for reminding me of the existence of the Polyhell article. It was incredibly helpful in explaining to Spitfire what she has been doing to me these last four months and how even though she was "trying to give me space and help me heal" all she was doing was hurting me more. It's nice when I have something from the polyamory community to back me up and show it's not just me. This is a thing that happens to PEOPLE.

GG:
I spent a lot of time avoiding calling it what it was. What's ridiculous is that I do yearly trainings on recognizing different types of domestic abuse and every time I convinced myself it wasn't this. Couldn't be me. I was just exaggerating it in my head. The training was about people with real problems and I should be ashamed to compare mine to it. I had to finally accept that it was bad enough.

Magdlyn:
I read every post in both my threads the other night. It's nice to have an archive to remind you that you're not crazy and it really happened. I noticed you'd been there from the beginning very gently "not calling it". Thank you. You have been tremendously kind.


0230 seems like a good time to stop. Have a very great night, everybody. Be excellent to each other.
 
That it hurt her that she stayed while I just decided to leave as soon as my therapist told me the same thing her's had told her.

That's some weird kind of DARVO.

She says she's afraid of me because I'm the only one left in her life who can bring out her demons. I told her I was afraid of her because she has demons she brings out. That is why I had to leave and why she chose to stay.

Is she one of those chaos manufacture people?

But you are right. This is why you need to leave. You are afraid of her.


GG:
I spent a lot of time avoiding calling it what it was. What's ridiculous is that I do yearly trainings on recognizing different types of domestic abuse and every time I convinced myself it wasn't this. Couldn't be me. I was just exaggerating it in my head. The training was about people with real problems and I should be ashamed to compare mine to it. I had to finally accept that it was bad enough.

Since you seem more able to hear? Please try to stop calling yourself names if you can catch yourself doing it.

It is NOT ridiculous. All the "couldn't be me" turning a blind eye, denial, "not as bad as X" -- that's all common.

We flinch and close eyes and try to duck or run if someone tries to punch us. Maybe try to punch back. Like physical abuse gonna hit ya. You automatically do all that. What do you think happens with emotional abuse? Same sort of "close eyes, flinch, duck, run" stuff to try to protect self. Maybe try to hit back. It happens automatically. Even if not LITERALLY closing eyes. The brain is trying to protect itself.

We need to stay separate so I can clear my head and try to find a sense of self. Work on our shit IN therapy.

Yup. Separate. Sometimes the body must leave first. Before the mind and heart can even begin to heal and stop all the automatic "flinching" it's been doing.

You are going to go through all the stages like anyone else would in this kind of situation.

Please be kind to yourself in these early days.

Please keep working with your professionals. Ask for referrals to other help if needed.

If she's not been honest in her therapy?

That doesn't mean you can't be honest in your individual counseling. Or like you can't start being more honest with couple counselor so the therapist has all the puzzle pieces. Even if it means doing some individual sessions with them to make them aware because Spitfire wants to hide things.
 
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That's some weird kind of DARVO.
Deny Attack Reverse Victim and Offender. Holy shit! This has literally been my whole marriage. I was telling her yesterday that every time I tell her she's hurting me she tells me my feelings are wrong and gets super pissed. I asked if she knew what it was like to always wind up apologizing for something that hurt you. It makes you crazy. It makes you doubt yourself. It's fucking gaslighting. Thank you, GG. I learned a new word today.
 
You are welcome.

Yes. Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. Just flipping the whole situation around on people like that? It IS crazymaking for the receiver.

If she does super provoking behavior like abuse? You having been provoked and then going into some kind of self defense mode as a result? You were provoked. It is NOT you being abusive.

If you did do things that were inappropriate? Ok. Own that part. And stop doing it.

But DARVO stuff? That's DARVO stuff. She can't poke the bear with a sharp stick and then act all "surprised" and "hurt" when it growls. Even if that's the role she wants to play? DARVO "victim?"

Now you can say "Nope. I don't want to play DARVO today" to yourself and choose how you react or respond.

I think as you continue your therapy and learn vocabulary and how to keep naming the abuse that's been happening to you there's going to be a lot of "Holy shit!" moments for you.

I don't want to overload you. But if you are able? You might read about techniques. Any gender can hurt any other gender. It's not just men who might hurt women.


When you click on the technique type, it opens to more detailed lists.

When you can name what it is? You are able to spot the fav ones. You can say to self "This is called x behavior. It is a tactic." You are still receiving poor behavior but you retain a sense of self more. It is NOT all in your head. You are NOT crazy. This behavior has a name. It is called x. The person is doing this behavior towards you. And you can say "Nope. I don't feel like playing X today." And change your reaction or response behavior.

Baby steps. Maybe just naming it is enough for now. Like "Oh. This is X behavior. I am NOT crazy."

You sound like you get a lot of mind games.

Hang in there.

Keep doing your journaling and keep on shining a light in dark corners with the help of your professionals.
 
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Yesterday was a good day. Work was extra long but I was very busy so I didn't have to worry about it. Then I came home to Jason and we put joint compound over masking tape on his half-wall and peeled it off before it was fully dry to make a brick pattern. It looks great! then we went to bed.

This morning was payday. I looked in the bank account to make sure I finally had some money. I can't spend any of it, really. Spitfire has always controlled the money since my habit of throwing anything left over from the budget at debt left us in a tight spot a few times. I took a good look at where all the money went for the month of February. Spitfire's card was used at ATMs, bars, fastfood places etc for a total of $609. That's not including amazon purchases, which tend to be more for the kids stuff, groceries, bills or fast food purchases that went to our household. Just stuff that was purely for Spitfire and/or her time spent with other partners. Meanwhile, I totaled up the spending from my card, even threw in the McDonalds I picked up a few times when we were all too beat to cook. I spent $313. That's me getting a $4-$8 lunch two or three times a week, my $15 3d printing subscription and my $8 D&D Beyond account. It even includes the big splurge I spent on myself this year. A $70 comicon ticket.

I had to find a thing that I wanted to do. Spitfire spent over $400 for her birthday between a camping trip with Bashir and a vacation with a friend from San Diego. I am afraid to go out and spend money but I needed some sort of thing for my own. Spitfire even encouraged me to do something for myself. I think that might be because she spent $400 on her birthday after being forced to get me gifts on my birthday because my kid was really upset that "dad doesn't have any gifts for his birthday". We didn't have any money. A bunch of money had been spent so Spitfire could by the kids each their own fish tank to feed her inner child and things she found on Amazon she wanted to try and things she wanted to go do. I'm pretty sure Comicon was her way to ease that guilt because that hurt me really bad. I have a long history of people not giving a shit about my birthday and I'd always hoped one day when I had a family of my own that would finally change. Despite being informed to the contrary almost every year, Spitfire still operates under the impression that I don't like my birthday.

Anyway, after looking back at the last few months a pattern emerged. I caught myself the rest of the day getting really mad at it. Of course I never get to do anything with her and we never have any money. She's spent it all. I can't even go and do things with Jason because we never have any money. And that's just what she spends out of my back account. I can't even see what her account looks like. I don't have a private account like she does. Mine is the joint account. So I'm feeling super betrayed and used every time I think of this throughout the day and eventually I do something stupid. I reach out to Kirk.

Kirk spends a lot of time raising his kids and supporting his wife who spends a lot of time bailing on him and being super unreliable with her boyfriend(if one day you're reading this and you know who you are, I said what I said. You are not kind enough to him!). Today made me miss him because he's a real good dude and has been a real friend to me. I just wanted to apologize if this shit fucks shit up between us and to let him know I still think he's awesome. His reply was super supportive but it ended with "I hope you figure out what you need."

Now between you and me, I've been spending way too much time thinking about what I need lately. What I needed for things not to have gotten here. Without hesitation i shot back the following:
I know what I need. It's what I always needed. I just needed her to put me first sometimes. Not like putting my job first but me. She can't do it. She doesn't even know what that looks like and I've been holding her up for 10 years while she tore me down. I'm sorry dude. I'm trapped at work and I'm fucking dying inside. She abandoned me for Bashir because that's what's easiest for her. The minute I woke up to that I think I fucking started dying inside. I know I shouldn't be telling you this and I'm sorry. I feel like you're literally the only guy who could actually understand how I feel. I'm not in a good place right now. That's why I had to get away. I feel so fucking used.

As soon as I sent it I realized what a shitty fucking thing that is to do to him. God, that was so fucked up. I went to go unsend it but he'd already seen it. All I could say was:
I don't know how to unsay any of that to you. That was so fucking unfair of me, dude. I'm so fucking sorry.

He of course continued to be the most supportive yet slowly backing away from the crazed animal dude he could be. I feel so fucking bad. I'm lucky that dude is a saint. I told Spitfire I had done it. It felt dirty to have griped about her to her boyfriend behind her back. I don't know if he told her or not but I hope I didn't get him in trouble if he didn't. I stand by the whole "best meta ever" statement.

I've been choking on my grief and anger all day. I told Spitfire when I apologized for reaching out to Kirk that " I feel like my guts are writhing in my chest trying to slither out of my mouth like snakes and if I let a single one out then I've done the wrong thing. Like itll hurt someones feelings or burn some bridge in a relationship. But it's like being eaten from the inside. I want to cry so bad but I can't anymore. Somehow I'm still trapped, just laying there too afraid to move forward." She took that as an opening to shit on my therapist for telling me to leave her. She did make a valid point about it being a little irresponsible of them to "trigger you and release you into the world".

But I keep thinking, how could she not have known that her relationship with Bashir makes me so uncomfortable? We'd talked about how I have a hard time saying no even when that's really what I want. Every time she asked me if I was ok with their relationship I would say something along the lines of "I don't like it but I feel like I have no right to control your relationships" which seems simple but took a monumentous amount of effort to put up even that much resistance. Then whenever I'd get upset like when she wanted to let him sleep in the bed and I was like "I barely know the guy. You dated for months and last night was the most words he'd ever spoken to me!" I feel like I was bullied into agreeing to sex being okay in the house. She told me I'd neutered her and Kirk's relationship because I didn't want them to fuck in our bed. I felt so guilty about it I felt like I didn't have any other choice. And she took advantage of it the first chance she got. The next day when I found out, first big panic attack. Then she just left me when the kids came home to run off to Bashir's. Could she honestly not have known how much her dating Bashir hurt me?

She'd leave me writhing and aching and lonely in my sad sexless marriage to go off with this other guy and fuck him. When given the choice to do whatever she wants the choice is not to stay and work on our marriage. The dude is all over our house. Talk about intrusion. She's texting him while we're talking and hanging out, she's watching him on twitch around the house, he comes over to talk to her while I'm at work. Even after I left I came back to spend time with the kids and give her a break, when she got back I found her wi-fi controlled leave-in vibrator charging on our bathroom sink. She swore he only controls it when she's with him but, come on! Every time I let my guard down I'm hurt again.

And she'll never come to this on her own. She'll never see it as a problem as long as she's getting what she wants. The minute I finally speak up and tell her that's what I need from her, I think it's over between us. Not because she'll end it but, because how could I stay knowing that given the choice to do whatever she wants, she will choose to do the easy thing that hurts me.

For the love of god, someone please course correct my logic if I'm way out of line here. I'm in kind of a dark place right now and I'm not sure I'm thinking clearly. Advice and comment are encouraged.

Like I told Kirk, all I want is to be put first sometimes. Yeah, you broke a boundary by dating Bashir...twice. But is it too much to ask to put our relationship first for a while and lay off on fucking him while you focus on our relationship for a while?! Why can't I be important too, other than the bare minimum to keep me around? Why can't I come before this guy in your book?

It hurts my feelings so fucking much. And I feel like it's wrong that I'm so upset about it. Like I have no right to be mad because I didn't speak up loud enough. Like, why couldn't I be worth sticking around for? Why is she still so into this guy who causes me so much pain?
 
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