Hannahfluke
Member
<hugs> I'm so, so sorry.
Nobody's Fool
- Thread starter FeatherFool
- Start date
Spork
Active member
I'm on the fence about Tails...specifically whether to give him space or to force your presence upon him. Mainly because I would be concerned about either of you being alone right now, for very long.
If anyone steps up to offer support, take it. There is no pathetic in this, no shame in this. If you can find safe harbor to share with someone, don't worry about what they will judge or think, just do it. Take anything you can get right now, from anyone who has love to offer you.
And Tails...if he has others, family, to be company to him, maybe back off SOME...but you should find a way to express to him that you love him dearly and want to be there with and for him, but if it's too much right now, you can respect that and give him some room. But you're NOT abandoning him even if he thinks he wants to push you out. You WILL be back.
Eventually I get a sense you might have to tough love him a little, but not so soon.
I had a major loss a few years back, and while the relationship was not as close, this person and my connection with him was a very large part of my own identity and central to many of my connections with friends. I can tell you that the "stages of grief" they talk about, you do not proceed through them in an orderly way, one at a time. You're going to be in physical pain for a while and the "stages" will chaotically crash through your mind whenever and however they do, for even longer. It might be months before you stop feeling like you've been punched in the chest and stomach. And it might be years before you stop thinking of what you would offer the universe in exchange for having him back, or having dreams about telling him all of the unsaid things in an afterlife somewhere.
All of this is normal. But normal hardly matters when you're going through it. Who gives a damn about normal when it HURTS? The only reason "normal" means anything, is that one day, you will heal. There will be a scar. But you will learn to live and laugh again...and time does make a difference.
The things that helped me were to get together physically with supportive friends who also had love for him, and I also wrote about him. I wrote things I loved about him, things I learned from him. I wrote about what he contributed to my life that made it better, and hence made it worth continuing to live. I soaked some shirts with my tears. I also hope that you and Kitten continue to offer one another support.
If anyone steps up to offer support, take it. There is no pathetic in this, no shame in this. If you can find safe harbor to share with someone, don't worry about what they will judge or think, just do it. Take anything you can get right now, from anyone who has love to offer you.
And Tails...if he has others, family, to be company to him, maybe back off SOME...but you should find a way to express to him that you love him dearly and want to be there with and for him, but if it's too much right now, you can respect that and give him some room. But you're NOT abandoning him even if he thinks he wants to push you out. You WILL be back.
Eventually I get a sense you might have to tough love him a little, but not so soon.
I had a major loss a few years back, and while the relationship was not as close, this person and my connection with him was a very large part of my own identity and central to many of my connections with friends. I can tell you that the "stages of grief" they talk about, you do not proceed through them in an orderly way, one at a time. You're going to be in physical pain for a while and the "stages" will chaotically crash through your mind whenever and however they do, for even longer. It might be months before you stop feeling like you've been punched in the chest and stomach. And it might be years before you stop thinking of what you would offer the universe in exchange for having him back, or having dreams about telling him all of the unsaid things in an afterlife somewhere.
All of this is normal. But normal hardly matters when you're going through it. Who gives a damn about normal when it HURTS? The only reason "normal" means anything, is that one day, you will heal. There will be a scar. But you will learn to live and laugh again...and time does make a difference.
The things that helped me were to get together physically with supportive friends who also had love for him, and I also wrote about him. I wrote things I loved about him, things I learned from him. I wrote about what he contributed to my life that made it better, and hence made it worth continuing to live. I soaked some shirts with my tears. I also hope that you and Kitten continue to offer one another support.
FeatherFool
New member
Thank you all, again.
Yes, this, Spork. This is exactly it. It feels like waves moving in different directions, crashing together. One second I'm furious, the next I feel bleak and gray, the next I think I'd give my right hand to have him back... sometimes it's hard to even know what I'm feeling. I was buying groceries today and I started crying in the dairy section with a carton of eggs in my hand. It makes me feel crazy and out of control.
And I miss him so much.
Tails...he is still off work, which was very kind of them since they only need to give three days, and it's been nearly two weeks. His sister is staying with him right now, but he asked me not to come by any more. I'm not sure what that means: if he means for right now, or... forever? I can't think about that right now, though. I just can't. I have to believe that is his pain talking. I haven't gone by, but I have been texting him in the morning, just so he knows I'm thinking of him. He never replies. I am starting to feel like a stalker. And... I'm very tired. It is hard to sleep.
Kitten has continued to be kind. She was over a couple days ago and we hung out by my pool. I was feeling a little guilty about liking the sun on my back and the water on my toes- am I still allowed to like these things, and miss him so much at the same time? Does a moment of feeling peaceful mean I didn't care about him enough? It's not even been two weeks. Peace feels like a betrayal. I asked her, tentatively, what she thought. She said he'd be sad if I thought I wasn't allowed to love sunshine and water because he wasn't there. She hugged me and said that no one can live in sadness all the time.
I think she is wrong. I think Tails is.
My older sister come over, too. We were supposed to go camping this weekend, but I begged off saying I wasn't feeling well. My sisters and I are very close, and I am not a good liar. My sister is a decade older than me, and was always more like a second mom. After a few hours, she called me back and said she was coming over because she knew there was something wrong and she wasn't going to take no for an answer. I ended up bawling everything out over the phone. She came over and we both cried on the couch. I think she was honestly hurt that I hadn't told her about the guys before. When I told her my fears, she glared at me and said if I thought that her religious views would cause her to hurt her own sister then I had another think coming. She stayed the night and we marathoned Harry Potter and talked about the guys. It was exactly what I needed: love, support and cuddles. She asked if she could tell our younger sister, but I said no. I figure, if she hears anything it should be from me, not second hand, and she has a two month old baby and a husband who is always away and she is unexpectedly moving next month to his farm. She has enough troubles: she shouldn't have to bear mine, too.
Yes, this, Spork. This is exactly it. It feels like waves moving in different directions, crashing together. One second I'm furious, the next I feel bleak and gray, the next I think I'd give my right hand to have him back... sometimes it's hard to even know what I'm feeling. I was buying groceries today and I started crying in the dairy section with a carton of eggs in my hand. It makes me feel crazy and out of control.
And I miss him so much.
Tails...he is still off work, which was very kind of them since they only need to give three days, and it's been nearly two weeks. His sister is staying with him right now, but he asked me not to come by any more. I'm not sure what that means: if he means for right now, or... forever? I can't think about that right now, though. I just can't. I have to believe that is his pain talking. I haven't gone by, but I have been texting him in the morning, just so he knows I'm thinking of him. He never replies. I am starting to feel like a stalker. And... I'm very tired. It is hard to sleep.
Kitten has continued to be kind. She was over a couple days ago and we hung out by my pool. I was feeling a little guilty about liking the sun on my back and the water on my toes- am I still allowed to like these things, and miss him so much at the same time? Does a moment of feeling peaceful mean I didn't care about him enough? It's not even been two weeks. Peace feels like a betrayal. I asked her, tentatively, what she thought. She said he'd be sad if I thought I wasn't allowed to love sunshine and water because he wasn't there. She hugged me and said that no one can live in sadness all the time.
I think she is wrong. I think Tails is.
My older sister come over, too. We were supposed to go camping this weekend, but I begged off saying I wasn't feeling well. My sisters and I are very close, and I am not a good liar. My sister is a decade older than me, and was always more like a second mom. After a few hours, she called me back and said she was coming over because she knew there was something wrong and she wasn't going to take no for an answer. I ended up bawling everything out over the phone. She came over and we both cried on the couch. I think she was honestly hurt that I hadn't told her about the guys before. When I told her my fears, she glared at me and said if I thought that her religious views would cause her to hurt her own sister then I had another think coming. She stayed the night and we marathoned Harry Potter and talked about the guys. It was exactly what I needed: love, support and cuddles. She asked if she could tell our younger sister, but I said no. I figure, if she hears anything it should be from me, not second hand, and she has a two month old baby and a husband who is always away and she is unexpectedly moving next month to his farm. She has enough troubles: she shouldn't have to bear mine, too.
My heart breaks for you, Feather. It must feel incredibly painful that Tails has asked you to stay away.
I think water and sun can do nothing but good for you. I find it calming to be in nature when I am grieving. I go to the ocean. I find that, no matter how much my world has turned upside down, it's somehow reassuring to know the ocean is still there, eternal.
My bf just lost his mom on Sunday after 2 years of a battle with cancer. They had a close but very troubled relationship. He has described the way his head is just spinning with emotion, grief, survivor guilt, unsureness about his future life, dealing with unhelpful relatives, you name it. Tails was with Jaeger a long time. His whole world has changed 100%. Hopefully he will come around. I really really hope that for you, dear girl.
I am so glad your older sister sensed something and came and supported you.
I think water and sun can do nothing but good for you. I find it calming to be in nature when I am grieving. I go to the ocean. I find that, no matter how much my world has turned upside down, it's somehow reassuring to know the ocean is still there, eternal.
My bf just lost his mom on Sunday after 2 years of a battle with cancer. They had a close but very troubled relationship. He has described the way his head is just spinning with emotion, grief, survivor guilt, unsureness about his future life, dealing with unhelpful relatives, you name it. Tails was with Jaeger a long time. His whole world has changed 100%. Hopefully he will come around. I really really hope that for you, dear girl.
I am so glad your older sister sensed something and came and supported you.
Your situation is heart breaking, Feather 
You essentially have lost both of your loves at one strike. You are in my thoughts, for whatever that is worth.
I am glad you could tell everything to your sister and she stayed by your side. Don't you blame yourself for the fears you had - the reasons you did not tell her earlier. Religion is such a powerful force, and there are people who do hurt their nearest and dearest because of religious views - I have experienced it first hand. You are lucky to have such a good person of a sister.
Take all the support you can get, from your sister and Kitten alike - and anyone else who might come your way. (((hugs)))
You essentially have lost both of your loves at one strike. You are in my thoughts, for whatever that is worth.I am glad you could tell everything to your sister and she stayed by your side. Don't you blame yourself for the fears you had - the reasons you did not tell her earlier. Religion is such a powerful force, and there are people who do hurt their nearest and dearest because of religious views - I have experienced it first hand. You are lucky to have such a good person of a sister.
Take all the support you can get, from your sister and Kitten alike - and anyone else who might come your way. (((hugs)))
Spork
Active member
Another thing I found helpful at a certain point...
I am not a religious person. So I don't have concrete beliefs about an afterlife, exactly. But there have been times in losing loved ones where an idea came home to roost and it felt good and right and true, so I simply accepted it.
When my friend Dave passed, he had a guy friend since high school who actually tried to drink himself to death, Scott. And Scott had some kind of a stroke and fell in the bathroom. He was unconscious for a couple of days. Multiple systems were failing, they put a pacemaker in him, too. He was a mess. Five months later, I saw Scott. He was pretty spacey. They say he's not all there in the head anymore on top of being medicated and often drunk. But when I saw Scott, he said to me, "Where's Dave...where's Dave man, everybody always wants to know, where's Dave. Let me tell you. DAVE IS EVERYWHERE."
When he said that it was like a sainted person, like someone with one foot in the spirit world had said those words to me. I still get chills thinking about it.
And you know what? It felt RIGHT. They had a ceremony that weekend where they burned an effigy of him on a boat on a lake, a sort of Viking funeral deal. A steam-devil spun off the fire and went straight to the nearest crowd of onlookers and dispersed. Earlier I'd been sitting by the lake and there was a snake on my foot...oddly I didn't feel alarmed but comforted, and it went off into the water without biting or bothering me. Every dragonfly. Every ray of sunshine. Every breeze.
Dave was everywhere.
So when you enjoy the feeling of the sun, and the touch of the water...maybe you keep that in mind. Maybe the universe is giving you some comfort and you can take that, too. Or maybe your loved one's energy is now in All The Things. And you just have to listen a little harder, feel the sun a bit more carefully, really breathe the air.
I don't have religion. I don't know what I "believe." But if it feels right, if it's a bit of a gift in a troubled time, I'd say take it.
I hope with all my heart that Tails heals and comes around. It sounds like he still just is not functional, that his grief has taken a different form. Neither of you is doing anything wrong, not you for enjoying the sunshine, not him for hiding in the dark licking his wounds, so long as he doesn't become self destructive.
I am not a religious person. So I don't have concrete beliefs about an afterlife, exactly. But there have been times in losing loved ones where an idea came home to roost and it felt good and right and true, so I simply accepted it.
When my friend Dave passed, he had a guy friend since high school who actually tried to drink himself to death, Scott. And Scott had some kind of a stroke and fell in the bathroom. He was unconscious for a couple of days. Multiple systems were failing, they put a pacemaker in him, too. He was a mess. Five months later, I saw Scott. He was pretty spacey. They say he's not all there in the head anymore on top of being medicated and often drunk. But when I saw Scott, he said to me, "Where's Dave...where's Dave man, everybody always wants to know, where's Dave. Let me tell you. DAVE IS EVERYWHERE."
When he said that it was like a sainted person, like someone with one foot in the spirit world had said those words to me. I still get chills thinking about it.
And you know what? It felt RIGHT. They had a ceremony that weekend where they burned an effigy of him on a boat on a lake, a sort of Viking funeral deal. A steam-devil spun off the fire and went straight to the nearest crowd of onlookers and dispersed. Earlier I'd been sitting by the lake and there was a snake on my foot...oddly I didn't feel alarmed but comforted, and it went off into the water without biting or bothering me. Every dragonfly. Every ray of sunshine. Every breeze.
Dave was everywhere.
So when you enjoy the feeling of the sun, and the touch of the water...maybe you keep that in mind. Maybe the universe is giving you some comfort and you can take that, too. Or maybe your loved one's energy is now in All The Things. And you just have to listen a little harder, feel the sun a bit more carefully, really breathe the air.
I don't have religion. I don't know what I "believe." But if it feels right, if it's a bit of a gift in a troubled time, I'd say take it.
I hope with all my heart that Tails heals and comes around. It sounds like he still just is not functional, that his grief has taken a different form. Neither of you is doing anything wrong, not you for enjoying the sunshine, not him for hiding in the dark licking his wounds, so long as he doesn't become self destructive.
nycindie
Active member
Oh no!
I am so sorry! My condolences for your loss. I can't believe it! I hadn't been online for over a week and just found out about it from something Mags said in her blog, which made me come here to read yours.
I am a bit numb and in shock myself. I was away on vacation for a little over a week. Some rather unfortunate things happened to me during my trip and also after I returned home. I am still dealing with the emotional aftermath of all of it and did not expect to receive the call I did while my world is turning upside down. Tuesday night I was informed that a close friend of mine passed away. She was going to move in with me at the end of the summer. We had plans to travel together. She had triumphed over breast cancer, and then found out she had lung cancer. She fought it so hard and was so positive about beating it, like she did the breast cancer, that I just didn't expect it to happen so soon. She was only diagnosed at the beginning of this year!
I feel terrible because I was her emergency contact and was away and out of cell phone reach when the hospital was trying to contact me to find her family because she had been admitted to the ER and was unconscious. I came back to several messages and there was nothing I could do, being many miles away. When I was able to contact the social worker at the hospital, I was told she had woken up and was alert and doing better, so I didn't expect things to change so rapidly. She died Monday night, and I was told a day later.
Our last communications were a bit tense. We sort of argued over a disagreement, and were irritated with each other. She was a good friend to me, my only single woman friend my age who lived near me. I just feel like crud because she died alone and now her family, whom she hated, is making arrangements in her home state and not doing anything for all her NYC friends. It just sucks.
Anyway, I didn't mean to make this about me - it all just came pouring out. Grief is hard, especially when the situation is so unfair. I hope you find the solace and comfort you need, and that Tails will not stay distant much longer.
I am so sorry! My condolences for your loss. I can't believe it! I hadn't been online for over a week and just found out about it from something Mags said in her blog, which made me come here to read yours.
I am a bit numb and in shock myself. I was away on vacation for a little over a week. Some rather unfortunate things happened to me during my trip and also after I returned home. I am still dealing with the emotional aftermath of all of it and did not expect to receive the call I did while my world is turning upside down. Tuesday night I was informed that a close friend of mine passed away. She was going to move in with me at the end of the summer. We had plans to travel together. She had triumphed over breast cancer, and then found out she had lung cancer. She fought it so hard and was so positive about beating it, like she did the breast cancer, that I just didn't expect it to happen so soon. She was only diagnosed at the beginning of this year!
I feel terrible because I was her emergency contact and was away and out of cell phone reach when the hospital was trying to contact me to find her family because she had been admitted to the ER and was unconscious. I came back to several messages and there was nothing I could do, being many miles away. When I was able to contact the social worker at the hospital, I was told she had woken up and was alert and doing better, so I didn't expect things to change so rapidly. She died Monday night, and I was told a day later.
Our last communications were a bit tense. We sort of argued over a disagreement, and were irritated with each other. She was a good friend to me, my only single woman friend my age who lived near me. I just feel like crud because she died alone and now her family, whom she hated, is making arrangements in her home state and not doing anything for all her NYC friends. It just sucks.
Anyway, I didn't mean to make this about me - it all just came pouring out. Grief is hard, especially when the situation is so unfair. I hope you find the solace and comfort you need, and that Tails will not stay distant much longer.
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FeatherFool
New member
Spork, "Dave is everywhere" reminded me of this:
"You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy gets created in the universe, and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, every vibration, every Btu of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got.
And at one point you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever.
And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue the heat of our own lives.
And you'll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. Let them know that they can measure, that scientists have measured precisely the conservation of energy and found it accurate, verifiable and consistent across space and time. You can hope your family will examine the evidence and satisfy themselves that the science is sound and that they'll be comforted to know your energy's still around. According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone; you're just less orderly. Amen."
-ARON FREEMAN
Though, Jaeger would have seriously hated being less orderly. The man's underwear was folded.
nycindie, I'm so sorry for your loss. And I don't mind: pour out all you need to. I find it's cathartic, for me, so if it helps you too then I am happy for you to do so.
I haven't seen Tails. I'm sending him a text every few days or so, but it's hard to throw the words into a void. I know he's struggling, but I can't keep throwing myself against his wall of silence. Every time I do and he doesn't answer I feel like I want to throw up. He's seen Kitten a few times, but she is uncomfortable being asked about how he is doing. She doesn't want to play go-between, which I understand. I worry.
It... I feel ashamed to admit this. There is a sick kind of jealousy, too; a small, hard little nugget where I think awful, awful things. A terrible part of me wants to say "Suuuure, you'll talk to Kitten, but not me??" It's not a thought or feeling that I like very much. Tails deserves to have the comfort and support he wants/needs, no matter who is able to provide that. And, thinking nasty thoughts about Kitten is kind of like thinking about kicking an actual kitten: neither comfortable nor helpful. I'm working on it.
Also... is it wrong to say I miss sex? Sex for me is comfort. I crave skin contact. I get twitchy and irritable without it. That seems like such a minor issue right now, and complaining feels like a betrayal. But... I miss sex with Jaeger, and with Tails. Tails is in so much pain, I'm in so much pain. It feels wrong and bad to be thinking about him naked. Them naked. And remembering Jaeger feels like a knife.
First Work is insane. I have an art show in just about two months, and only half the pieces I want there are at a point where I'm content with them (I'm rarely 100% happy with my own works). It's hard to paint right now. I have no energy or interest. Everything I'm creating feels wonky. It's extremely frustrating. It's like my eyes or brain or fingers are broken. Maybe all three. Half the time I can't even see what I want in my head. Usually I have a complete work "finished" in my mind that I just recreate on the canvas. Right now, everything is blank.
Other Work, at the lab, is thankfully quiet right now. It's nice to be alone in the aquatic side: the water sounds peaceful, it's cool (it's been a muggy 30-35C all week) and fish don't care if you are sad or grumpy or frustrated as long as they get fed on time. I have a special project going that is ticking along really well. It's not that big of a deal, but I'm in charge of the whole thing with basically zero oversight as long as the deadlines are met. I love being given responsibility, and being let go to run with it as I please.
"You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy gets created in the universe, and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, every vibration, every Btu of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got.
And at one point you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever.
And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue the heat of our own lives.
And you'll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. Let them know that they can measure, that scientists have measured precisely the conservation of energy and found it accurate, verifiable and consistent across space and time. You can hope your family will examine the evidence and satisfy themselves that the science is sound and that they'll be comforted to know your energy's still around. According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone; you're just less orderly. Amen."
-ARON FREEMAN
Though, Jaeger would have seriously hated being less orderly. The man's underwear was folded.
nycindie, I'm so sorry for your loss. And I don't mind: pour out all you need to. I find it's cathartic, for me, so if it helps you too then I am happy for you to do so.
I haven't seen Tails. I'm sending him a text every few days or so, but it's hard to throw the words into a void. I know he's struggling, but I can't keep throwing myself against his wall of silence. Every time I do and he doesn't answer I feel like I want to throw up. He's seen Kitten a few times, but she is uncomfortable being asked about how he is doing. She doesn't want to play go-between, which I understand. I worry.
It... I feel ashamed to admit this. There is a sick kind of jealousy, too; a small, hard little nugget where I think awful, awful things. A terrible part of me wants to say "Suuuure, you'll talk to Kitten, but not me??" It's not a thought or feeling that I like very much. Tails deserves to have the comfort and support he wants/needs, no matter who is able to provide that. And, thinking nasty thoughts about Kitten is kind of like thinking about kicking an actual kitten: neither comfortable nor helpful. I'm working on it.
Also... is it wrong to say I miss sex? Sex for me is comfort. I crave skin contact. I get twitchy and irritable without it. That seems like such a minor issue right now, and complaining feels like a betrayal. But... I miss sex with Jaeger, and with Tails. Tails is in so much pain, I'm in so much pain. It feels wrong and bad to be thinking about him naked. Them naked. And remembering Jaeger feels like a knife.
First Work is insane. I have an art show in just about two months, and only half the pieces I want there are at a point where I'm content with them (I'm rarely 100% happy with my own works). It's hard to paint right now. I have no energy or interest. Everything I'm creating feels wonky. It's extremely frustrating. It's like my eyes or brain or fingers are broken. Maybe all three. Half the time I can't even see what I want in my head. Usually I have a complete work "finished" in my mind that I just recreate on the canvas. Right now, everything is blank.
Other Work, at the lab, is thankfully quiet right now. It's nice to be alone in the aquatic side: the water sounds peaceful, it's cool (it's been a muggy 30-35C all week) and fish don't care if you are sad or grumpy or frustrated as long as they get fed on time. I have a special project going that is ticking along really well. It's not that big of a deal, but I'm in charge of the whole thing with basically zero oversight as long as the deadlines are met. I love being given responsibility, and being let go to run with it as I please.
FeatherFool
New member
Thanks, Refusnik. I just hate those jealousy feelings. They make me feel small and yucky, especially since I like Kitten. Thankfully, over the last two days or so, the jealousy has morphed into sadness and disappointment- which I can handle much better- but I'm sure it will crop up again.
And yes- that kind of comfort would be very welcome right now. Even just cuddles on the couch. My poly friend has been having some relationship issues (I am not shocked- her metamour is not my favourite person) and she's been hanging out here a lot so at least I'm getting some cuddles! She is a very tactile person as well.
I just found out that one of my bestest friends in the whole wide world is returning to my city this weekend! He's been waaaaay up north studying right whales for the past few years, which has made keeping in contact very hard. Apparently he's known about the move for a while, but hadn't known the final travel details until this week. I'm so excited! The last time he was here was about three years ago, when he flew his dog down for emergency vet care after she saved him from a polar bear attack. It's the craziest story: my friend was tracking a group of whales along a cliff when he startled a starving polar bear, who immediately went for him. His dog (this giant beast of a mastiff/malamute cross) held it off so that my friend could get to his ATV, which he'd stupidly left behind with the gun to walk out onto a point of land. As he was driving away, his dog broke off the battle to race along beside him but the cliff face they were on gave way and his dog fell down a nearly 2km cliff. He had to leave her, since the bear was chasing him. He went back for her later, and the medics on their research site, the director, everybody, pitched in to fly him and his dog down south for his dog's emergency surgery. Insane, right?? His dog now lives with his parent, here in the city since the surgeries and scars mean that she can't run as fast, and if she ever encountered another polar bear she would never make it. She definitely lives the life of a hero, let me tell you!
He doesn't have a pace to stay at the moment, so I offered him my spare room. I'm super excited to see him again! He'll be staying with me until he sorts out his apartment situation. The apartment where I live is a multiple-building complex, and one the buildings has several vacancies and he'd told me he'd applied for one... even before I told him where I live! lol I have a few good friends who have moved into one or another of the buildings and it's pretty awesome having them nearby.
It's really nice to have something good to look forward to.
And yes- that kind of comfort would be very welcome right now. Even just cuddles on the couch. My poly friend has been having some relationship issues (I am not shocked- her metamour is not my favourite person) and she's been hanging out here a lot so at least I'm getting some cuddles! She is a very tactile person as well.
I just found out that one of my bestest friends in the whole wide world is returning to my city this weekend! He's been waaaaay up north studying right whales for the past few years, which has made keeping in contact very hard. Apparently he's known about the move for a while, but hadn't known the final travel details until this week. I'm so excited! The last time he was here was about three years ago, when he flew his dog down for emergency vet care after she saved him from a polar bear attack. It's the craziest story: my friend was tracking a group of whales along a cliff when he startled a starving polar bear, who immediately went for him. His dog (this giant beast of a mastiff/malamute cross) held it off so that my friend could get to his ATV, which he'd stupidly left behind with the gun to walk out onto a point of land. As he was driving away, his dog broke off the battle to race along beside him but the cliff face they were on gave way and his dog fell down a nearly 2km cliff. He had to leave her, since the bear was chasing him. He went back for her later, and the medics on their research site, the director, everybody, pitched in to fly him and his dog down south for his dog's emergency surgery. Insane, right?? His dog now lives with his parent, here in the city since the surgeries and scars mean that she can't run as fast, and if she ever encountered another polar bear she would never make it. She definitely lives the life of a hero, let me tell you!
He doesn't have a pace to stay at the moment, so I offered him my spare room. I'm super excited to see him again! He'll be staying with me until he sorts out his apartment situation. The apartment where I live is a multiple-building complex, and one the buildings has several vacancies and he'd told me he'd applied for one... even before I told him where I live! lol I have a few good friends who have moved into one or another of the buildings and it's pretty awesome having them nearby.
It's really nice to have something good to look forward to.
FeatherFool
New member
I didn't have a very good night. I should probably wait until tomorrow to write any of this, but I'm having trouble processing so maybe writing here will help.
Tails came by my place unexpectedly last night. I was initially thrilled but something was... off. I don't know. I thought we'd sit on my couch, cuddle, talk, maybe watch a movie and have dinner, but he had this desperate air. With barely ten words between us at the front door he basically glommed onto me. I've been craving something physical, but this didn't feel quite right... but I was so happy to see him, and I'd missed him so much. We had sex but didn't make it farther than my couch. And it wasn't good. It was weirdly perfunctory and he didn't have any interest in some of the more affectionate things we do. The sweet, playful enthusiasm I've come to expect from Tails was missing. Afterward I felt even sadder and more disconnected, like I'd lost something all over again. It was honestly hard not to cry, though I can't put my finger on why, exactly, that should be. I wanted him, he wanted me- there is nothing wrong in any of that. But it also wasn't right, somehow. I felt the need to put my clothes back on right away, which is never something I'm driven to do (I'm quite happy cuddling naked, thank you). The feeling of grossness, or having done something shameful, or dirty, lingers even still. I can't figure out why I feel like this and it's driving me crazy. There wasn't anything overtly wrong or terrible, nothing that I didn't want to do- and want to do quite desperately, in fact. I'm not ashamed of having or needing sex, and he wanted it too. So, why do I feel this way?? I don't understand my own feelings right now.
These "gross" and "shame" feelings are real issues for me. It's reminding me of how much trouble I had getting to a place where I could enjoy sex, and see it as a form of connection and an expression of joy and affection. I don't like that it's welling up again, and I hate that it's with Tails that it's doing so. Is this somehow connected to my grief? Is it because I already feel distant from and (rightly or wrongly) a bit abandoned by Tails lately? I just don't know. But I don't like it.
Afterwards, I tried to lean on his chest with my legs across his- our favourite cuddle position- but he ended up on the other side of the couch. He talked about selling their house, moving to an apartment across the city from his work but closer to his family. He talked about going on a vacation to Peru for a month. When I asked if he had vacation time set up, he said that he's taking a LOA from work for the foreseeable future. He didn't talk about how he was doing, and when I asked, he just said "Fine, I'm fine, FeatherFool" and was kind of angry about it. I know he probably hears that a thousand times a day but... I don't know. I don't hear the answer a thousand times a day, and maybe I wanted him to ask me how I was doing, too.
He headed out shortly thereafter. I didn't even get the chance to tell him about my friend who is coming to stay. When I stretched up for a goodbye kiss he turned around as if he hadn't seen and left. I just stood there for a second, then went to have a shower because my skin was crawling.
On top of the shame, I'm starting to feel angry this morning- though I'm not sure if that's "legitimate anger" or if I'm just displacing my anxiety about this whole situation to something I feel more comfortable dealing with. It would likely be easier to feel angry at Tails then deal with these yuck feelings. But... Just fucking talk to me. Whatever is going on, whatever is happening, just tell me. I am strong, I can handle whatever it is: I won't break. I didn't like his treatment of me last night. I didn't like the separateness. Without communication, I'm starting to wonder things like: was he just so desperate for sex he couldn't stay away? That doesn't make me feel very good. Am I just a fuck buddy now- someone to fuck on the couch then leave without anything further? That doesn't feel any better! It's the not knowing, though, that feels the worst. Just fucking talk to me.
Yep. There is the anger.
I don't know. I don't know what's happening or what to do. I feel set adrift. I feel like my heart broke tonight, again, but I don't know why. I don't understand why he came by last night, after basically a month of silence. I feel very cold and alone. And I hate that, somehow, one of the things that helps me feel connected to people turned into something that makes me feel even farther away.
And I'm really missing Jaeger today. I miss him so much, you guys. It comes in waves, and this is a bad one.
My friend (gonna call him WhaleRider, I think) arrives tomorrow, and I'm glad I won't be alone in my apartment for a while. I love living alone, usually, but I think having another human body around will be good.
Tails came by my place unexpectedly last night. I was initially thrilled but something was... off. I don't know. I thought we'd sit on my couch, cuddle, talk, maybe watch a movie and have dinner, but he had this desperate air. With barely ten words between us at the front door he basically glommed onto me. I've been craving something physical, but this didn't feel quite right... but I was so happy to see him, and I'd missed him so much. We had sex but didn't make it farther than my couch. And it wasn't good. It was weirdly perfunctory and he didn't have any interest in some of the more affectionate things we do. The sweet, playful enthusiasm I've come to expect from Tails was missing. Afterward I felt even sadder and more disconnected, like I'd lost something all over again. It was honestly hard not to cry, though I can't put my finger on why, exactly, that should be. I wanted him, he wanted me- there is nothing wrong in any of that. But it also wasn't right, somehow. I felt the need to put my clothes back on right away, which is never something I'm driven to do (I'm quite happy cuddling naked, thank you). The feeling of grossness, or having done something shameful, or dirty, lingers even still. I can't figure out why I feel like this and it's driving me crazy. There wasn't anything overtly wrong or terrible, nothing that I didn't want to do- and want to do quite desperately, in fact. I'm not ashamed of having or needing sex, and he wanted it too. So, why do I feel this way?? I don't understand my own feelings right now.
These "gross" and "shame" feelings are real issues for me. It's reminding me of how much trouble I had getting to a place where I could enjoy sex, and see it as a form of connection and an expression of joy and affection. I don't like that it's welling up again, and I hate that it's with Tails that it's doing so. Is this somehow connected to my grief? Is it because I already feel distant from and (rightly or wrongly) a bit abandoned by Tails lately? I just don't know. But I don't like it.
Afterwards, I tried to lean on his chest with my legs across his- our favourite cuddle position- but he ended up on the other side of the couch. He talked about selling their house, moving to an apartment across the city from his work but closer to his family. He talked about going on a vacation to Peru for a month. When I asked if he had vacation time set up, he said that he's taking a LOA from work for the foreseeable future. He didn't talk about how he was doing, and when I asked, he just said "Fine, I'm fine, FeatherFool" and was kind of angry about it. I know he probably hears that a thousand times a day but... I don't know. I don't hear the answer a thousand times a day, and maybe I wanted him to ask me how I was doing, too.
He headed out shortly thereafter. I didn't even get the chance to tell him about my friend who is coming to stay. When I stretched up for a goodbye kiss he turned around as if he hadn't seen and left. I just stood there for a second, then went to have a shower because my skin was crawling.
On top of the shame, I'm starting to feel angry this morning- though I'm not sure if that's "legitimate anger" or if I'm just displacing my anxiety about this whole situation to something I feel more comfortable dealing with. It would likely be easier to feel angry at Tails then deal with these yuck feelings. But... Just fucking talk to me. Whatever is going on, whatever is happening, just tell me. I am strong, I can handle whatever it is: I won't break. I didn't like his treatment of me last night. I didn't like the separateness. Without communication, I'm starting to wonder things like: was he just so desperate for sex he couldn't stay away? That doesn't make me feel very good. Am I just a fuck buddy now- someone to fuck on the couch then leave without anything further? That doesn't feel any better! It's the not knowing, though, that feels the worst. Just fucking talk to me.
Yep. There is the anger.
I don't know. I don't know what's happening or what to do. I feel set adrift. I feel like my heart broke tonight, again, but I don't know why. I don't understand why he came by last night, after basically a month of silence. I feel very cold and alone. And I hate that, somehow, one of the things that helps me feel connected to people turned into something that makes me feel even farther away.
And I'm really missing Jaeger today. I miss him so much, you guys. It comes in waves, and this is a bad one.
My friend (gonna call him WhaleRider, I think) arrives tomorrow, and I'm glad I won't be alone in my apartment for a while. I love living alone, usually, but I think having another human body around will be good.
Feather, I am here for you. Can I say, I actually envy you for having had any kind of connection with Tails, no matter how perfunctory? sigh... but anyway. I get why it felt dirty and disrespectful to you.
I think the shame comes from your rotten upbringing. It was so hard for you to get to a place where you could do sex joyfully at all. So, this encounter almost felt rapey to you?
Please try and see it as the best Tails could do. Men! They don't process grief like we women do. I am going through that with Punk! Not one word now, in 2 weeks. Invites me to the wake, puts his arm around me lovingly there, smiles at me, seems grateful for my presence, thanks me profusely for coming, shows me his mom's photo montages and talks about memories, introduces me to his dad as his girlfriend. And now. Nothing.
Men just get all ashamed of their grief. They want to hide from the world. Retreat to their man caves and lick their wounds in private. I think it's partly biological and partly cultural programming.
But it SUCKS! This is a big reason I am bi. I relate emotionally to women. I love sex with men. But their emotional coping skills so often are lacking, from a woman's POV. It's a scientific fact women are better at verbally expressing their grief. Well, verbally expressing anything (there are exceptions of course). And I am sure all this is related to Tails associating you with Jaeger, and he just can't handle it.
For me, maybe Punk is so wounded by his mom, he has PTSD, he is feeling guilty for feeling relief she is gone. Now he just doesn't want anything to do with any women. He posts on Instagram less now, but all he has posted are pix of nature, and a bass his male bff gave him. One shot of himself with his new reciprocating saw, but not shots of new pieces of art... He did like a couple of pix of nature I posted. That is all the connection we have had.
He is bipolar however, and goodness knows, he might be in a deep deep depressive state.
I am so sorry and sick at heart for you, that Tails is going to be near family, instead of coming to you. But if he can't even work, at least you know he isn't withdrawing just from you. He is also withdrawing from his career. He might even travel to the other side of the world from his home!
It's kind of all very dramatic, but that is how he is, right? Fiery and energetic.
Men run away from grief. They don't process their grief verbally. Our culture tells them that is a weakness.
Dammit!
I kind of feel like Punk isn't even my bf now. When I post on threads here and relate a story about my "bf" I feel like I am lying. Ugh.
Whalerider will be a blessing to you? I hope he's good at listening and making fun things happen to cheer you up a little. HUGS
I think the shame comes from your rotten upbringing. It was so hard for you to get to a place where you could do sex joyfully at all. So, this encounter almost felt rapey to you?
Please try and see it as the best Tails could do. Men! They don't process grief like we women do. I am going through that with Punk! Not one word now, in 2 weeks. Invites me to the wake, puts his arm around me lovingly there, smiles at me, seems grateful for my presence, thanks me profusely for coming, shows me his mom's photo montages and talks about memories, introduces me to his dad as his girlfriend. And now. Nothing.
Men just get all ashamed of their grief. They want to hide from the world. Retreat to their man caves and lick their wounds in private. I think it's partly biological and partly cultural programming.
But it SUCKS! This is a big reason I am bi. I relate emotionally to women. I love sex with men. But their emotional coping skills so often are lacking, from a woman's POV. It's a scientific fact women are better at verbally expressing their grief. Well, verbally expressing anything (there are exceptions of course). And I am sure all this is related to Tails associating you with Jaeger, and he just can't handle it.
For me, maybe Punk is so wounded by his mom, he has PTSD, he is feeling guilty for feeling relief she is gone. Now he just doesn't want anything to do with any women. He posts on Instagram less now, but all he has posted are pix of nature, and a bass his male bff gave him. One shot of himself with his new reciprocating saw, but not shots of new pieces of art... He did like a couple of pix of nature I posted. That is all the connection we have had.
He is bipolar however, and goodness knows, he might be in a deep deep depressive state.
I am so sorry and sick at heart for you, that Tails is going to be near family, instead of coming to you. But if he can't even work, at least you know he isn't withdrawing just from you. He is also withdrawing from his career. He might even travel to the other side of the world from his home!
It's kind of all very dramatic, but that is how he is, right? Fiery and energetic.
Men run away from grief. They don't process their grief verbally. Our culture tells them that is a weakness.
Dammit!
I kind of feel like Punk isn't even my bf now. When I post on threads here and relate a story about my "bf" I feel like I am lying. Ugh.
Whalerider will be a blessing to you? I hope he's good at listening and making fun things happen to cheer you up a little. HUGS
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Feather, I feel for you and hope I had better words for you right now.
I am in a place in my life where I have recently realized how some formerly unnoticed emotional wounds from my childhood are still hurting and doing damage in my present life. I agree with Mags, your feelings of being dirty and shameful come from your religious upbringing. Those feelings are hard to process, and they may have been activated because of your grief - you are emotionally so much more vulnerable now.
I am happy that you will have your friend with you now as you need the presence of other people.
Sending you internet (((hugs)))
I am in a place in my life where I have recently realized how some formerly unnoticed emotional wounds from my childhood are still hurting and doing damage in my present life. I agree with Mags, your feelings of being dirty and shameful come from your religious upbringing. Those feelings are hard to process, and they may have been activated because of your grief - you are emotionally so much more vulnerable now.
I am happy that you will have your friend with you now as you need the presence of other people.
Sending you internet (((hugs)))
nycindie
Active member
It was Band-Aid sex. I did that sort of thing when I was grieving the end of my marriage, which devastated me. I just needed to feel something, anything other than the sadness, anger, and grief. I needed to connect and feel desired, but... it was only a Band-Aid. I wanted to connect, but couldn't. I realized only much later that I didn't treat every man I had Band-Aid sex with very nicely.
Tails needed it, needed you, hoping he would feel better afterwards, but it didn't get him out of his head enough to really connect with you. He's simply... lost and, likely, feeling a bit numb. It is hard to get past that and let someone in.
I'm sorry it felt so icky for you. I hope you can forgive him and the way in which he's trying to cope. Don't let it eat at you. You each have your own way of grieving and I'm sure the right moment to speak your truth to him will come. It will require patience. I hope the visit with your friend helps to lift your spirits.
Tails needed it, needed you, hoping he would feel better afterwards, but it didn't get him out of his head enough to really connect with you. He's simply... lost and, likely, feeling a bit numb. It is hard to get past that and let someone in.
I'm sorry it felt so icky for you. I hope you can forgive him and the way in which he's trying to cope. Don't let it eat at you. You each have your own way of grieving and I'm sure the right moment to speak your truth to him will come. It will require patience. I hope the visit with your friend helps to lift your spirits.
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Oh, man, can I relate to this. Guilt and shame about sex were my constant companions for nearly my entire life, and even though now, thanks to my boyfriend and to changes Hubby has made, sex is something I can enjoy and seek without feeling bad--sometimes I still feel bad about it. It isn't a forward journey. But I also had a very difficult time seeing it as anything positive.
I think you might be spot on with your assumption that this is connected to your grief, and to Tails's. You and he both needed that connection, but at the same time, it's possible that both of you felt guilty for needing it. When we lose someone we love, sometimes we feel guilty for enjoying *anything* at all, and sex was something, if I've read your posts correctly, that you and Tails both shared with Jaeger. So even though it could have been something to resolidify a bond between you and Tails, and it could have been comforting, it's possible that somewhere in your minds you were both thinking or feeling--not necessarily consciously--that it was wrong to enjoy something you both shared with Jaeger now that he is gone.
But whatever the reason is, it definitely, seriously sucks that it's sending you back to the "sex is bad" place. I hope that you are able to find your way back to seeing it as positive and connecting.
My continued condolences for your loss.
Livingmybestlife
Member
I think there is a basic difference, sorry for the generalization between men and women. Men need sex to feel love and women need love to have sex.
I read that book venus and mars.
I truly believe this is about survivor's guilt. I believe he is in deep hard core grief and sees having feelings and sex with you as a betrayal to Jaeger.
I don't often log on and read offline. What caught me is that maybe feeling so much guilt over Jaeger and the joy you three had and he can't come to you for comfort. It is cruel and selfish but I understand it. He is so deep in his grief he can't see your hurt.
I am sorry I never posted to you. I hate saying I am sorry for your loss it is so trite. You were in such a good place finding peace with them and then this horrible loss of Jaeger. Hugs!
I read that book venus and mars.
I truly believe this is about survivor's guilt. I believe he is in deep hard core grief and sees having feelings and sex with you as a betrayal to Jaeger.
I don't often log on and read offline. What caught me is that maybe feeling so much guilt over Jaeger and the joy you three had and he can't come to you for comfort. It is cruel and selfish but I understand it. He is so deep in his grief he can't see your hurt.
I am sorry I never posted to you. I hate saying I am sorry for your loss it is so trite. You were in such a good place finding peace with them and then this horrible loss of Jaeger. Hugs!
Spork
Active member
Hm.
So, I need something hard to describe, I can only call it a good reciprocal energy exchange, for sex to be real connection and not just sex, or worse, regrettable or unpleasant.
I think that the lack of talking, you weren't really CONNECTING. You had that elephant in the room thing going on. There's a problem and it's just hurting and you're both interacting with the problem and not each other. There were walls up. No good energy getting through.
You are used to your loving partner connecting with you and having that energy flow, so having it closed off like that and no attempt possible to bridge the gap, and then feeling like if you set foot on the span to try and reach him, you're being pushed away... That, I think is what's behind the unhappiness.
EDIT: Also, trying to share intimacy with someone who is connected with emotional pain, and some resentment. I'm guessing the dirty/bad/shamey feelings come from this place.
The good news is, if you remain open to him, even though it hurts, he might heal and relax enough to let the walls down. It might take time, or it might surprise you and happen soon. You would have to have the patience to coax a wild thing that has survived such trauma, even knowing it may bite you, metaphorically speaking.
It sounds to me though, that Tails is instinctively trying to run and hide from the loss and the hurt and the reality. As though he could change his life scenery and become a different man who hasn't had this experience and therefore need not think of it or feel it. Unfortunately, that isn't really how these things work.
You, on the other hand, are craving the beautiful, joyful and loving energy that you had before, and wishing that you and Tails could do that again for each other, but I don't suppose that is going to be possible until/unless he stops running and hiding, and actually heals.
So, I need something hard to describe, I can only call it a good reciprocal energy exchange, for sex to be real connection and not just sex, or worse, regrettable or unpleasant.
I think that the lack of talking, you weren't really CONNECTING. You had that elephant in the room thing going on. There's a problem and it's just hurting and you're both interacting with the problem and not each other. There were walls up. No good energy getting through.
You are used to your loving partner connecting with you and having that energy flow, so having it closed off like that and no attempt possible to bridge the gap, and then feeling like if you set foot on the span to try and reach him, you're being pushed away... That, I think is what's behind the unhappiness.
EDIT: Also, trying to share intimacy with someone who is connected with emotional pain, and some resentment. I'm guessing the dirty/bad/shamey feelings come from this place.
The good news is, if you remain open to him, even though it hurts, he might heal and relax enough to let the walls down. It might take time, or it might surprise you and happen soon. You would have to have the patience to coax a wild thing that has survived such trauma, even knowing it may bite you, metaphorically speaking.
It sounds to me though, that Tails is instinctively trying to run and hide from the loss and the hurt and the reality. As though he could change his life scenery and become a different man who hasn't had this experience and therefore need not think of it or feel it. Unfortunately, that isn't really how these things work.
You, on the other hand, are craving the beautiful, joyful and loving energy that you had before, and wishing that you and Tails could do that again for each other, but I don't suppose that is going to be possible until/unless he stops running and hiding, and actually heals.