Quick advise on phone calls

Ductcha

New member
Posted a bit here, just a quick question. My wife, calling her emerald, upset me last night. She spends hours dealing with a new relationship. She called last night, as she spent the night. Here's the issue, she literally told me off the bat we only had as long as it took her boyfriend, we will call Vinny, to get his dog to go bathroom. I just felt rejected, and unimportant to her. Working on detangling. Should I just view this as a detangling situation or is my sense of rejection sounding right?
 

TXretired

Active member
Scheduling phone calls gets easier as you go. It is generally nicer talking to one partner without the other around. We do a mixture. It is important to discuss all of your goals and expectations on calls. Hopefully, she will be open and listen to what you would like. In like manner, you need to do the same.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
I could be wrong, but I think you might be a little sensitive combined with how she talks (maybe) annoying you.

Would you have been less upset NOT hearing from her? Cuz how much is there to say? And for what purpose?

How about WHEN she calls? Was this scheduled or random call? Maybe you don't like random because it catches you off guard and not mentally prepared. If it gets you rattled, maybe you learn to just let it go to voice mail. Then you can screen it and if emergency, call right back. If not, leave it to when you can deal with it better or when she gets back. The goal was to reduce your stress, right? Not add to it.

Maybe you have discovered you only want "before care" and then "after care" but you don't want any "during care" if she's on a trip. Maybe just skip it and reconnect when she comes back.

Then there's HOW she talks.

Would you do better if she doesn't mention what's going on? Something like "Hi, I only have about 10 min but I really wanted to check in with you." There the attention is on you and she really wants to be there.

Rather than something like "I'm only going to talk til Vinny comes back from walking the dog. Then I'm gonna hang out with him." There the attention is on the door waiting for the dog walk to be over.

So yeah, if you are in the sensitive transition space? Her saying something like that might not sound all that great to you even if she didn't mean it that way. Like you are just time filler or obligation or something.

If you didn't feel great about it you could have said "Thanks for checking in. Not much new. So let's just talk later when you are home. Hope you are having fun" and you say bye.

I think you are going to have to pick and choose your battles, though. No point in nitpicking every little thing if you both have a long ways to go in transition.

Try NOT talking when she's away. See if that feels better to you.

And consider reading non-violent communication books. There are several. I like this one best.

Be patient. Eventually, you all will hopefully finish detangling and find a better balance.

Galagirl
 
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Ductcha

New member
Would you do better if she doesn't mention what's going on? Something like "Hi, I only have about 10 min but I really wanted to check in with you." There the attention is on you and she really wants to be there.

Rather than something like "I'm only going to talk til Vinny comes back from walking the dog. Then I'm gonna hang out with him." There the attention is on the door waiting for the dog walk to be over.

So yeah, if you are in the sensitive transition space? Her saying something like that might not sound all that great to you even if she didn't mean it that way. Like you are just time filler or obligation or something.
That was basically it. I felt like a time filler. She called this morning and we talk only a bit longer, not much. But the time wasn't determined by when he got back with the dog. She wants calls every night and day while we cope with not being together to ease the stress a tiny bit. I tend to agree. But ultimately I'd like our calls when apart for other partners to be more uniform to when we are when not together for much any other reason.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
She wants calls every night and day while we cope with not being together to ease the stress a tiny bit. I tend to agree.

A call every night and day while she's on a trip? What's going on that she can't go past 12 hours without contact?

To me that frequency would ADD to my stress rather than take away from stress.

I guess you could do it scheduled then. At least reduce the random element. Morning appointment for 5-10 min and Night appointment for 5-10 min. And limit it to just those times. Then it's an expected call, and you both clear time on your schedules to attend to it and be PRESENT because it's important to you both.

No random "whenever" calls just to tick the box. If it ends up being that? Time filler? Nothing new because you JUST talked hours ago? (How much can happen in a day?) Just don't call so much. Talk less. Esp if it disturbs your day or mood.

But ultimately I'd like our calls when apart for other partners to be more uniform to when we are when not together for much any other reason.

I don't understand this sentence as written. What does that mean? Do you mean something like

"I'm willing to put with this on this trip. But eventually can't this just be normal level calls like any other trip?"

If so, I could see that becoming tiresome.

Her calling you so much like some kind of security blanket person? Or checking to see where you are, because now you go out too and that freaks her out?

That can make a problem for her and Vinny too. Like she's SOOOO attached to her phone she's not present very well with him either.

Then neither side of the V is getting her PRESENT in both mind and body. Just body here and mind elsewhere.

Galagirl
 
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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Hi Ductcha,

Technically Emerald isn't too far out of bounds, while she is with Vinny, her focus should be on him, just as while she is with you, her focus should be on you. What concerns me is, I don't know how much time she is spending with you in general. Is Vinny getting a ton of her time, while you are hardly getting any? If so, you probably need her to spend more time with you, and that is a justified need.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
I think one of the goals of detangling is removing the need for these phone calls Or the value add from such a phone call.

I also think the reason the op is sensitive during this stage is because of the numerous bumps and bruises / paper cuts he’s been subjected to In a short time span. WE hear all the time people fall out of love with a spouse or they love them but are NOT in love with them or every relationship has a life span and a continual drip drip drip of things like this definitely could have a negative consequence which brings that into reality


IMO everyone needs to do their parts. Clear and honest communication, good intentions, actions and words match, emotional management, time management, etc, etc. NOT the struggling spouse needs to read all the books and articles amd listen endless podcasts and seek individual counseling essentially doing the heavy lifting to make their new marriage work. IMO the poly / dating spouse should be the one doing the heavy lifting and trying to proactively head off or at the least try to minimize negative bleed through.

TO me I read the situation where emerald and bf spend hrs texting and or calling/ communicating in various ways while she’s at home in and around Ductcha and when she called to check in ( per agreement ) he’s told up front the Length of the call is determined on how full the dogs bladder is or picky the dog is on what tree or spot it wants to deposit it on.

I don’t disagreeing with picking battles but I’d definitely express how you see the situation and how it feels to you AND IF I read this correctly the unfairness of the standard. I dont think I’d call this a nitpicking situation in terms of creating clear expectation or expectations.
 
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GalaGirl

Well-known member
I think one of the goals of detangling is removing the need for these phone calls Or the value add from such a phone call.

Yup. Agree with Dingedheart. Both partners could do their fair share of the work.

And sometimes fair share of the work means saying "No, thanks. I won't be doing that."

Cannot dump all the open/poly work on one partner.

I can understand a quick goodnight call or text here and there depending on length of trip. Or "Just landed. Got here safe" or "At airport. Boarding now" or similar texts to check in for courtesy.

If it were me in these shoes? And I have a goal or reducing my stress and doing less work? And wife wanted to call me twice a day? I would say "No, thanks. Not doing that many calls. I will let things go to voicemail. If emergency I will call back." There. Expectation set.

If wife struggles THAT hard, don't do overnight trips at this time then. Build up to it. But that's her work to do, not yours. What is going on that she can't go 12 hours without contact? Call the therapist instead. Work on her stuff.

Wife wants to date other people? Wife can deal with the stuff of dating other people then, including wife's OWN personal growth so she isn't using me like a woobie security blanket person.

If Ductcha is willing to put up with this many calls on this one trip? Fine. Ductcha's choice.

In future trips? I think you, Ductcha, could become more willing to do less. Let all these calls go to voicemail rather than picking them up. If you want less stress? Do less stuff.

Because if you decide to have better personal boundaries with spouse and detangle whether she likes it or not? Then to me it becomes nitpicking to talk to her about HOW she talks in voicemail at this point time.

Like if it were me? Her leaving me voicemail saying she only has X minutes because Vinny will come back from walking the dog. Well, I have ZERO minutes for this call. I just let it go to voice mail and don't care what she says on there. Because I press delete to erase it.

Because unless it's actual emergency where I would call her back? She can just wait to tell me whatever when she gets home. I do not enjoy play-by-play witter bothering me. I want to be doing my OWN activities in the day without interruptions.

I might circle back around to talk about improving communication in general later on, but the more pressing issue of bothering me with too many calls? I solved that one myself.

Tell her no thanks, I won't be doing them. And then I start screening calls. Go to voicemail. Delete if not actual emergency.

Way less stress and simpler on my side then.

Galagirl
 
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PinkPig

Well-known member
I agree with Gala. If it's just an overnight or a weekend away, I prefer no calls unless there's an emergency. The occasional quick text is fine. If a partner wants me to call while on my weekend away with someone else, I'll arrange a set time for a quick 5 minute check in call.

I agree with DingedHeart though, that the double standard is a big part of the problem. Like Emerald prioritizes Vinny when she's with him AND when she's with YOU... And maybe if or when you're on an overnight with someone else, then she's also all needy and wanting you to block out a bunch of your date time to call her? If that's the case, I can totally understand why you would feel frustrated, demoted, and hurt by her actions. I think this can be fixed with firmer boundaries. Managing multiple relationships well, requires work and good emotional management. If she's not willing to do the work on her side, then you'll need to make extra certain that you have good, strong, healthy boundaries to make this work. In my experience, we show people how we want to be treated.
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
Yup. Agree with Dingedheart. Both partners could do their fair share of the work.

thanks …I’d use stronger language than could. for reasonable chances of success it requires a maximum effort/ good faith effort on all parts. “ Could “ doesn’t cut it.

And sometimes fair share of the work means saying "No, thanks. I won't be doing that."
I’m not sure saying no is part of the work per se but definitely constructing extremely firm boundaries and a code of conduct are going to help the process in the long run.

I can understand a quick goodnight call or text here and there depending on length of trip. Or "Just landed. Got here safe" or "At airport. Boarding now" or similar texts to check in for courtesy.

If it were me in these shoes? And I have a goal or reducing my stress and doing less work? And wife wanted to call me twice a day? I would say "No, thanks. Not doing that many calls. I will let things go to voicemail. If emergency I will call back." There. Expectation set.

If wife struggles THAT hard, don't do overnight trips at this time then. Build up to it. But that's her work to do, not yours. What is going on that she can't go 12 hours without contact? Call the therapist instead. Work on her stuff.

I think there’s several things at play here that move this beyond the intention of or the specific phrasing of the phone call. 1) An agreement was reached and made with either very specific intentions and expectations or it was more of a token gesture to aimed at calming Ductcha down during over nights. I think a big part of communication is say what you mean and mean what you’d say. If you make agreements to try to calm nerves during sensitive times ( speculation on my part ) then keep that intention in mind during the execution. Because rushing / blowing someone off like that in that specific situation has stamped all sorts of thoughts and question in your spouses head that they might dwell on the rest of the morning or the rest of the night depending when that call happened.

2) Gala you speak and think like a person who’s arranged / constructed her life and marriage with a level of detanglement or detachment you’ve never been the struggling spouse being subjected to a NRE drunk spouse transitioning into a new poly marriage. AGAIN it sounds like she made the call using a very limited window of time and she chose the words she used during said call…ALL OF THAT CAME TO HIM. words matter and actions matter instead of letting all her calls go to voice mail so he can screen and compartmentalize in some box maybe she needs to rethink how her words and actions might affect her spouse ??? Maybe take some responsibility for saying something stupid.

3) hypocrisy/ double standard : Again this speculation on my part but we’ve seen this more times than not were
Spouse and new love interest communicate pretty much nonstop or without many limits but feel infringed upon during “ their “ time. It’s the insult more than anything.
In future trips? I think you, Ductcha, could become more willing to do less. Let all these calls go to voicemail rather than picking them up. If you want less stress? Do less stuff.
Would that be a good prescription across the board ?? why limit it to trips ?
Because if you decide to have better personal boundaries with spouse and detangle whether she likes it or not? Then to me it becomes nitpicking to talk to her about HOW she talks in voicemail at this point time.
if you deem whatever is being said in these phone calls as silly and superfluous and without any value other than woobie blanket then yes it could be considered nitpicking to discuss them. HOWEVER if he feels rejected / unimportant and a place holder she might need to know that just to avoid making that mistake again. WOULDNT YOU WANT TO KNOW THAT ?

Like if it were me? Her leaving me voicemail saying she only has X minutes because Vinny will come back from walking the dog. Well, I have ZERO minutes for this call. I just let it go to voice mail and don't care what she says on there. Because I press delete to erase it.
I’ll reiterate ….was That the intention …to quick call while the bfs in the can or taking his dog out to pee. I only have 45 seconds to say I’m still alive …why ?? what makes vinny time so valuable and my time so cheap and disposable.
Again insulting IMO.

Because unless it's actual emergency where I would call her back? She can just wait to tell me whatever when she gets home. I do not enjoy play-by-play witter bothering me. I want to be doing my OWN activities in the day without interruptions.
Emergencies might need to be defined also. One persons emergency is another persons situation or problem.

I might circle back around to talk about improving communication in general later on, but the more pressing issue of bothering me with too many calls? I solved that one myself.
I don’t think this thread is or was about her bothering him with check in phone calls. And yes I agree if that were the problem it could be easily solved.
 
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GalaGirl

Well-known member
Ductcha, you correct me if my impressions are wrong ok?

I perceived this thread as Ductcha wanting quick validation.
  • That yes, that call was stupid talk. (And it was.)
  • And it is ok to feel hurt that she's thoughtless. (It is.)
  • And no, he doesn't have to put up with that again. (Which he doesn't)
Even if you initially agreed to do this many calls? You can change your mind and tell her you are not doing them. She can keep doing them on her end, but she can expect some of them to go to voicemail because you are not up for this many and are not always gonna be available.

Or put up with it since you agreed and maybe the trip is almost over anyway. But having learned from this experience that you don't actually like it? Don't agree to do that again if it feels sucky and you'd rather spend your time doing something else.

thanks …I’d use stronger language than could. for reasonable chances of success it requires a maximum effort/ good faith effort on all parts. “ Could “ doesn’t cut it.

Dingedheart, I think it does require max effort and good faith on both parts. And both partners could attend to that if that is a shared value.

(I do Non Violent Communication, "could" is part of that.)

If I changed to "I think it does require max effort and good faith on both parts. And both partners SHOULD attend to that if that is a shared value." it doesn't really change the practical things in this situation.
  • Ductcha can only control his own behavior.
  • Wife controls her behavior.
  • Ductcha cannot MAKE wife do anything.
  • Wife cannot MAKE Ductcha do anything.

Spouse and new love interest communicate pretty much nonstop or without many limits but feel infringed upon during “ their “ time. It’s the insult more than anything.

I think it is an insult to the established partner who is making space for NRE in a show of good faith if the hinge just takes that for granted and "phones it in" and doesn't do their own part in maintaining continued time/space/connection with the established partner.

Like "I have to do MORE work to get LESS of your time and attention? Plus deal with you being NRE drunk? Who loves dealing with drunks around the house? What kind of business is that?"

I'd hope she'd have the sense to wake up and smell the coffee already and starts doing her fair share of the work and fix her time management and hinge skills, but apparently she's long been in the habit of taking Ductcha for granted.

if you deem whatever is being said in these phone calls as silly and superfluous and without any value other than woobie blanket then yes it could be considered nitpicking to discuss them. HOWEVER if he feels rejected / unimportant and a place holder she might need to know that just to avoid making that mistake again. WOULDNT YOU WANT TO KNOW THAT ?

Yes. But that's a longer conversation that Ductcha could have with her when she comes home and he's not feeling sensitive/hurt. Not try to squish it into the limited time dog walk conversation to have it with her right then.

If this call upset him in the moment? Keeping it going just keeps it in the upset. Better to hang up and take a time out to cool off. Prioritize himself FIRST. Deal with her second.

I also think it is better for Ductcha to take the time needed for serious conversation with her like he's a valuable person. Not be fitting himself into her "scraps of time" windows. He could value himself way more than that.

2) Gala you speak and think like a person who’s arranged / constructed her life and marriage with a level of detanglement or detachment you’ve never been the struggling spouse being subjected to a NRE drunk spouse transitioning into a new poly marriage. AGAIN it sounds like she made the call using a very limited window of time and she chose the words she used during said call…ALL OF THAT CAME TO HIM. words matter and actions matter instead of letting all her calls go to voice mail so he can screen and compartmentalize in some box maybe she needs to rethink how her words and actions might affect her spouse ??? Maybe take some responsibility for saying something stupid.

Correct. I'm one of the few who on this board that doesn't/didn't deal in that. We didn't come into "poly awareness" after marriage. DH and I sorted all that out well before marriage. But even when we were sorting it out when we were dating, and both saw other people? I didn't treat my partners like this. Double standards, talking stupid, NRE obsession, etc. I think that's a poor way to behave and treat people. DH didn't treat me that way either.

I do sympathize with a struggling spouse, but that's my point. There is some inherent struggle to changing the relationship model and marriage agreements if a couple come to poly after marriage. That's plenty load right there. Why struggle extra? One doesn't have to let their soft feelings for a spouse lead to doing stuff they really don't want to be doing or lead to being the spouse's doormat. Say "no." A person has to be able to say "I love you a lot, but no. Not even for you am I going to do stuff or put up with stuff that hurts me."

I wasn't suggesting voicemail like compartmentalizing so Ductcha can endure this wonky longer.

I was suggesting saying "Nope. Not taking this call" and letting it go to voicemail because words DO matter and he's decided he's not putting up with wonky things any more. Exercise stronger personal boundaries with wife.

I’ll reiterate ….was That the intention …to quick call while the bfs in the can or taking his dog out to pee. I only have 45 seconds to say in still alive …why ?? what makes vinny time so valuable and my time so cheap and disposable.

Exactly. Ductcha himself could decide his time is NOT cheap and NOT disposable. Not be so available.

When he decides for himself that his time is valuable? And he stops taking her calls because she talks stupid to him and he's tired of it? That could help reduce his stress. He does not have to be available for stupid, or "scraps of attention" if he doesn't want to spend his valuable time on that.

It's ok to put his foot down on things like that if he wants their dynamic to change. Not be a doormat.

And in changing his behaviors? It might make her rethink how she talks to him. Ductcha's not sitting around by the phone waiting with bated breath. Not being mean, but also not holding his breath. And no, not always available at the drop of a hat. Because he goes out to do his own things. He's not accepting double standard crap either.

Because in the past in the other posts it sounds like Duchtcha bent over backwards. Doing TOO much. And just let her talk to him however, even rude or stupid, and run roughshod over him.

This is not a newbie couple just opening up. This ugh has been going on for several years. From the other thread about hyperspeed couple? They already had other attempts at poly that went sour. And cheating affairs. They also broke up once.

They got back together and this is the "last chance." Or at least I perceive it as such because he said divorce is on the table.

So I think this time around? If divorce is on the table? Duchtcha could do a whole lot less to reduce his own stress. Put up with less stupid and just cut the crap. Nip any time wasters in the bud. Say "No, thanks" more often.

If she wants Open for just her and not Duchtcha? He can say "No, thanks. Won't be doing that." Ductcha doesn't want to deal in double standards any more. So will now be just doing his thing and going out too.

As they continue their talks? She either gets it better together and starts doing her fair share or she doesn't on THIS side of the V. Time will tell.

But Ductcha? He's finding out that he does better and feels happier detangling and doing his own stuff and not putting up with wonky any more.

Ductcha, I think you could carry on with that and keep learning to say "No, thanks. Not doing that" when she suggests doing things that are not in your best interest. Keep going with the detangling so you can live a more balanced life for yourself.

So that if you and her stay married or divorce? Either way, YOU are a healthier, happier person who can stand on your own two feet more.

Galagirl
 
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dingedheart

Well-known member
Dingedheart, I think it does require max effort and good faith on both parts. And both partners could attend to that if that is a shared value.

(I do Non Violent Communication, "could" is part of that.)
For starters I’d like to say appreciate having this civil discussion….thank you 😉👍

” both partners could do their fair share of the work “ and both partners could attend max/ good faith effort if that is a shared value “. Those 2 sentences seem deliberately in there construction. What’s violent in a declarative sentence ? I’m trying to fathom in this context how or why that wouldn’t be a shared value In a “ partnership “ .

If I changed to "I think it does require max effort and good faith on both parts. And both partners SHOULD attend to that if that is a shared value." it doesn't really change the practical things in this situation.
  • Ductcha can only control his own behavior.
  • Wife controls her behavior.
  • Ductcha cannot MAKE wife do anything.
  • Wife cannot MAKE Ductcha do anything.

I’m confused you see this as only what he has control over?



I think it is an insult to the established partner who is making space for NRE in a show of good faith if the hinge just takes that for granted and "phones it in" and doesn't do their own part in maintaining continued time/space/connection with the established partner.
I like what you did there with the phone it in part 🤣🤣👍.


Like "I have to do MORE work to get LESS of your time and attention? Plus deal with you being NRE drunk? Who loves dealing with drunks around the house? What kind of business is that?"
but he has NO a control of that …right ?

I'd hope she'd have the sense to wake up and smell the coffee already and starts doing her fair share of the work and fix her time management and hinge skills, but apparently she's long been in the habit of taking Ductcha for granted.
I only saw a thread about her moving too fast introducing the bf to the kids without a conversation.

Yes. But that's a longer conversation that Ductcha could have with her when she comes home and he's not feeling sensitive/hurt. Not try to squish it into the limited time dog walk conversation to have it with her right then.
I agree it definitely should be part of a longer conversation. But if people are so concerned about open and honest communication why should it matter if it takes an extra minute or 3 to point out how he feels and why ? He’s being honest.

here’s your coaching him on she talks :

Would you do better if she doesn't mention what's going on? Something like "Hi, I only have about 10 min but I really wanted to check in with you." There the attention is on you and she really wants to be there. Why bring this up he has NO control over this ?

Rather than something like "I'm only going to talk til Vinny comes back from walking the dog. Then I'm gonna hang out with him." There the attention is on the door waiting for the dog walk to be over.

So yeah, if you are in the sensitive transition space? Her saying something like that might not sound all that great to you even if she didn't mean it that way. What other meaning could there BE Like you are just time filler or obligation or something.

If you didn't feel great about it you could have said "Thanks for checking in. Not much new. So let's just talk later when you are home. Hope you are having fun" and you say bye. WHY ? Or you could say “ are you fucking serious squeeze in your obligatory contact call during a piss or water break…click..or Fuck you and then click.

I think you are going to have to pick and choose your battles, though. No point in nitpicking every little thing if you both have a long ways to go in transition.
Doesn’t that go without saying ? Do you think this is or was a little silly thing he should let slide ?


If this call upset him in the moment? Keeping it going just keeps it in the upset. Better to hang up and take a time out to cool off. Prioritize himself FIRST. Deal with her second.
I agree I think he should 100% prioritize himself first and by that doing exactly whatever he feels best in that moment.
if he thinks he needs to cool off and deal with her later great if not that’s ok too.


I also think it is better for Ductcha to take the time needed for serious conversation with her like he's a valuable person. Not be fitting himself into her "scraps of time" windows. He could value himself way more than that.
I thought we only concerned ourselves with things under our control. He can’t control her or the time she is willing to spend on him ?



Correct. I'm one of the few who on this board that doesn't/didn't deal in that. We didn't come into "poly awareness" after marriage. DH and I sorted all that out well before marriage. But even when we were sorting it out when we were dating, and both saw other people? I didn't treat my partners like this. Double standards, talking stupid, NRE obsession, etc. I think that's a poor way to behave and treat people. DH didn't treat me that way either.

I do sympathize with a struggling spouse, but that's my point. There is some inherent struggle to changing the relationship model and marriage agreements if a couple come to poly after marriage. That's plenty load right there. Why struggle extra? One doesn't have to let their soft feelings for a spouse lead to doing stuff they really don't want to be doing or lead to being the spouse's doormat. Say "no." A person has to be able to say "I love you a lot, but no. Not even for you am I going to do stuff or put up with stuff that hurts me."
Yes some major inherent struggles in changing a well established marriage into a poly marriage. Why struggle extra ? In most cases people are trying to survive and not cognizant of struggling extra there dealing with things as the come.
Like trying to sleep while camping being attacked by mosquitoes. They wear you down after 1 or 2 nights.

You might sympathize but I was suggesting something closer to empathizing.


I wasn't suggesting voicemail like compartmentalizing so Ductcha can endure this wonky longer.

I was suggesting saying "Nope. Not taking this call" and letting it go to voicemail because words DO matter and he's decided he's not putting up with wonky things any more. Exercise stronger personal boundaries with wife.
if he lets all her check in calls go to voice mail without any prior discussion on his new personal boundary send a harsh message ?? I think you’re 100% right though that her leaving a message on Vm explaining she and vinny just came up for air and he needed to take the dog out to pee doesn’t have the same effect as calling live and saying right off the bat I only have a couple minutes to talk.



Exactly. Ductcha himself could decide his time is NOT cheap and NOT disposable. Not be so available.
AND HE COULD / should ask that question of his wife too because she’s the one who doesn’t see the value.

When he decides for himself that his time is valuable? And he stops taking her calls because she talks stupid to him and he's tired of it? That could help reduce his stress. He does not have to be available for stupid, or "scraps of attention" if he doesn't want to spend his valuable time on that.

100% agree 😆👍. However the inherent flaw we see in this is the struggling spouse is also struggling with keeping a spot on the team. The fear of rejecting scraps of attention is less or no attention or driving you spouse into arms of another. not saying this the case here just saying making yourself less available is hard to do in the struggling spouses shoes So I’m told .
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
Also appreciate the civilized discussion, Dingedheart.

I hope this helps you some Ductcha, but if you think it's going off topic say so.

” both partners could do their fair share of the work “ and both partners could attend max/ good faith effort if that is a shared value “. Those 2 sentences seem deliberately in there construction. What’s violent in a declarative sentence ? I’m trying to fathom in this context how or why that wouldn’t be a shared value In a “ partnership “ .

Well, we've seen it happen here before....

Where one partner says it is a shared value. Like how poly would be great for both and is really trying to sell it. Like everyone chips in their fair share and everyone will get something out of it. But really? They are trying to use poly like a "soft exit" out of a marriage and line up the new person before dumping the old one.

I don't really know what the full context is in this situation. I could be wrong but it sounds like wife wanted open for just her and is struggling now that Ductcha decided "Nope. Not doing double standard any more. And divorce is on the table."

Would you do better if she doesn't mention what's going on? Something like "Hi, I only have about 10 min but I really wanted to check in with you." There the attention is on you and she really wants to be there. Why bring this up he has NO control over this ?
Because language choice matters. And he can request that she change how she talks to him in these situations. So she becomes more thoughtful about how she comes across instead of thoughtless.

He also has control over how deep a conversation he feels like getting into right then, in that 10 min window.

So yeah, if you are in the sensitive transition space? Her saying something like that might not sound all that great to you even if she didn't mean it that way. What other meaning could there BE Like you are just time filler or obligation or something.

That she's clueless as to how she sounds when she talks to other people.

If you didn't feel great about it you could have said "Thanks for checking in. Not much new. So let's just talk later when you are home. Hope you are having fun" and you say bye. WHY ? Or you could say “ are you fucking serious squeeze in your obligatory contact call during a piss or water break…click..or Fuck you and then click.

Could be pleasant, flat, and boring while also setting a limit about not taking any more of these calls.

Could also say what you suggest instead and take a different tone.

Up to Ductcha what he actually wants to say and which tone he prefers.

I think you are going to have to pick and choose your battles, though. No point in nitpicking every little thing if you both have a long ways to go in transition.
Doesn’t that go without saying ? Do you think this is or was a little silly thing he should let slide ?

I think it's a serious thing to talk about, but not right then when she is distracted watching the door for the dog walk to be over and he's hurt over her thoughtless words. Nitpicking on it right that minute didn't seem like the best time to me.

if he lets all her check in calls go to voice mail without any prior discussion on his new personal boundary send a harsh message ??

Well, if this was said?

"Thanks for checking in. Not much new. So let's just talk later when you are home. Hope you are having fun"​

Already gave her the heads up. Want to be even more explicit? Ok. Could say

"Thanks for checking in. Not much new. I do not want to do any more of these check in calls. Too frequent for anything new to happen. So let's just talk later when you are home. Hope you are having fun."​

Pleasant, boring, and flat while setting a limit and changing expectation of behavior.

If Ductcha sets a personal boundary for himself of "I don't like wasting my valuable time. I will screen calls to see if they merit my attention" he doesn't have to consult anyone about that. He sets his personal boundary for himself and the only one who has to like/obey/enforce it is him.

I don't find Ductcha setting a limit on calls that are too frequent or setting a personal boundary to let things go to voicemail and screen calls to do better personal time management for himself esp harsh.

Is it any harsher than saying “ are you fucking serious squeeze in your obligatory contact call during a piss or water break…click..or Fuck you and then click" to the wife?

AND HE COULD / should ask that question of his wife too because she’s the one who doesn’t see the value.

Yes. He could ask her. He also could pick and choose the time when he does that asking.

However the inherent flaw we see in this is the struggling spouse is also struggling with keeping a spot on the team. The fear of rejecting scraps of attention is less or no attention or driving you spouse into arms of another. not saying this the case here just saying making yourself less available is hard to do in the struggling spouses shoes So I’m told .

Definitely hard if the struggling spouse is not used to standing on their own feet, a people pleaser, enmeshed or codependent, or super caught up in their identity as being married like they subsumed themselves to the relationship. Poly has a way of shining a light on a lot of things.

Galagirl
 
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Ductcha

New member
Holy crap what a bunch of replies. So....I have discussed time management with her. Detangling is difficult but I am forcing it upon myself. She has said "I'll call you tonight" and I said "if there isn't something major to talk about then we can just talk tommorow"
It has really reduced my stress alot. I also got into the practice of leaving my phone behind when going about the house to limit how I was jumping on to answer messages. When I do have it I try to give time before I answer. (Effort to make her life hers and joined to mine but not actually mine) That has also helped to destress me a bit.
She is very nre drunk. When I bring up my concerns she becomes defensive. I have tried phrasing such as I statements to little avail. She realized that she hadn't spent time with me in a while and promises where made. Then she asked she break them. I'm trying to view these as her choices. They don't reflect on me, but such large thought change is massively challenging. Plus being honest, I do find her choices leave me feeling alone, unimportant, lonely. Trying to resolve this by focusing on me and trying to rebuild my social circle. Slow process but I'm giving it my all.
Let me tell you guys a short story, since you can't know it. That girl I mentioned, that I loved, in retro I went nre too, not nearly as extreme, but I know I did. So I know what she is feeling, and now I know how she felt. Doesnt excuse it, but it leads me to believe Im not completely without wrong behaviors as I thought.. I'm big into empathy, but I am trying to stop that with her. When she has a minor disagreement with Vinny I refuse to involve myself. Detangling.
I have started doing research because of this, as I don't want to return the favor, should life offer me the chance.
Yes I am in pain. Yes I have tried to communicate it. I am being patient, If she shows more controlled behavior so be it. But if not, I have to decide whether I'm willing to tolerate this behavior until it wears off or if I won't.
I hope all you people can see you have given me so much knowledge, and I Thank you so much. If nothing else I am learning to be a better person.
 

Ductcha

New member
I only saw a thread about her moving too fast introducing the bf to the kids without a conversation
It was supposed to be that, and how to cope. But to be honest, I'm pleased this talk evolved the way it did. Multiple view points are excellent for me as I can mix and match ideas to fit them to me and my wants/needs. I honestly can't Thank these people enough for the truly invaluable knowledge they have given me freely.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
Glad the discussion helps you.

She has said "I'll call you tonight" and I said "if there isn't something major to talk about then we can just talk tommorow"
It has really reduced my stress alot.

Good. Sounds like being firm about your time management and skipping excess calls is better for your stress.

I also got into the practice of leaving my phone behind when going about the house to limit how I was jumping on to answer messages. When I do have it I try to give time before I answer. (Effort to make her life hers and joined to mine but not actually mine) That has also helped to destress me a bit.

Good. Glad that behavior also reduces your stress.

Remember the phone is a tool that is there to serve you.

You do not exist to serve the phone or have it be like a "digital leash" you wear. So anyone in the world can yank on it any time they feel like it by calling or texting you.

YOU pick when you feel like using your phone. It's YOUR tool.

She realized that she hadn't spent time with me in a while and promises where made. Then she asked she break them. I'm trying to view these as her choices. They don't reflect on me, but such large thought change is massively challenging.

I don't know if the CODA book would help you any.

Carry on detangling. It seems a better way of going for you. So avail yourself to whatever tools you need.

Yes I am in pain. Yes I have tried to communicate it. I am being patient, If she shows more controlled behavior so be it. But if not, I have to decide whether I'm willing to tolerate this behavior until it wears off or if I won't.

Yup. Your consent to participate in things or not belongs to YOU. You are the one who gets to pick what you will and will not put up with.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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Ductcha

New member
She realized that she hadn't spent time with me in a while and promises where made. Then she asked she break them. I'm trying to view these as her choices. They don't reflect on me, but such large thought change is massively challenging. Plus being honest, I do find her choices leave me feeling alone, unimportant, lonely
She promised she would leave between 1 and 2. This was so she would be home to cook with me. A favored past time. She texted me minutes ago to tell me they are 45 minutes from his house. And 2.5 hours beyond that from his to mine. Plus she still has to repack her essentials and have the long goodbye and stuff. Best case scenario she gets home after 5, by which time dinner should be getting served soon. That's 4 or 5 promises broken in as many days. I can't keep crying anymore. I'm debating ending it tonight. I'm tired of hurting. Feeling lied to, ignored, and trapped. This is bullshit and I refuse to accept it. I'm not angry, I'm so low that any lower would be dangerous to my life. I won't let her push me that far.
 

Evie

Kaitiaki
Her behaviour is truly abysmal. Perhaps separation is the healthiest way forward for you.
 

Ductcha

New member
As a ps: I dressed like it was a date. I even took a fairly (I think anyway) artistic selfie, was going to post to Facebook (I don't post on fb typically, especially selfies) I wore her favorite outfit, did my hair the way she likes (I have long hair), her favorite cologne, shaved, everything. Obviously the pic didn't get posted. I don't want to make our problems facebook problems. Just putting that out there bc I'm still realizing just how I feel. How much sorrow, disappointment, ect. Like I put out all this effort, I got candles ready, and this is how I am repayed? (She doesn't know I dressed up and all that stuff. But still?) Pay me little mind right now. I'm basically venting to strangers bc I trust no one in real life enough.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
That's not a good thing: when the one you love (Emerald) breaks her promises to you. It is not fun to think about breaking up (divorcing), but I think in this case you have to care enough about yourself to consider it.
 
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