The journey to myself

Happy, happy, happy!!!!!
It’s solved!!!!!
I got a postdoc position. I’ll be doing physics in a “neerby” (3h drive city), and I don’t even have to be there all days a week.

I must be the only one on the whole world who did’t dare send a postdoc application for two years, then sent ONE and got hired :O :O :O

Hooorayyyyyy!!!!!
 
CONGRATULATIONS!!
 
Idealist... is not the easiest person to be, communicate and live with. (Understatement. Sometimes it's really hard to hold my ground.) He is quite selfish sometimes and has weird blind spots that make communication oftentimes go in circles with no resolution.

These are not the easiest relationship times. The word "break-up" has been voiced more often than comfortable in the past few months, as our sexual passion has been absent for quite some time.

That being said, he just lived with me through a very long and rough depressive phase I'm sure not all partners would have managed. While his love and empathy aren't always easily translated to action (or shown, when his demons take over), he's a person with great capacity for these nurturing emotions.

One thing I struggle a lot with is the disapproval of my social bubble. People, most of my friends, in fact, have real trouble with accepting Idealist, resulting in friends and even strangers sometimes telling me that he's not a good partner to me. Apparently, he's selfish, patronizing and a horrible communicator, say these people who (with exceptions) wouldn't take the time to get to know him well, communicating their impressions sometimes in rather horrible ways and trying to patronize me into breaking up. (Sometimes, this is connected with hating polyamory too.) And, I do get why they say it. I have been able to see the patterns all along. Especially in the first years, there had been a lot of inner tension between love and reason. I have also been able to see the better side of him. So far, I have still stayed.

The thing I want to complain about is that it is JUST AS HARD to deal with these disapprovals, as it is to communicate with and understand Idealist sometimes. When people say what they say, I feel just as misunderstood and belittled as I do when Idealist is trying to convince me that some decision or preference of mine can't be right, because he just doesn't get it. (In his ideal world, things work differently.)

I suspect there is some pattern in my behavior, inherited from family or learned otherwise, that makes partners and people in general think I need to be saved, or something.
 
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Merry Christmas to all who come here :)
 
Things have improved with Idealist over the holiday season. We had some talks.

A lot of anger came out of me, and I named many fears. Then we felt closer. It seems intimacy has been blocked by suppressed anger, after all. The issues are not solved (they are of the kind that requires many talks and effort), and anger still comes up. But there is hope for us.

We're trying a therapist. Let's see if the lady I found is any good.

Physical distance when I commute will probably change a lot, too.
 
I'll be 35 very soon and really approaching the age when it's "Child or no child, decide now." It's tough and it doesn't fit well with restarting my scientific career.
Of course, there's no good time career-wise, it's just a big topic for me, because losing my field of study and having to work in the corporate world really sent me for a long, depressed spin.
The personal topics are even more daunting, though. Am I in good enough shape, health-wise and otherwise? Is my relationship in a good enough shape? Can we manage? Is this a good idea?
I can't stand a toddler for more than ten minutes. Will this be different with my own, or am I just allowing my hormones to catch me in a huge, unhappy trap? Will I be able to take care of myself enough to feel satisfied with life (if not happy) while taking care for another being?
As you can see, I'm leaning "Yes, ASAP" (the infamous biological clock), but it's hard.
 
To be honest, if you don’t like small children and are looking forward to having an older one… I’m not sure that’s a choice I’d make again. Everyone swore up one side and down the other “you’ll be ok, it’s different when it’s yours”… it is and it isn’t. Mostly you just love them madly and STILL can’t stand being around them as toddlers/small children, which is miserable and you end up feeling very very guilty about it. It IS better once they’re older but you’re still signing up for quite a difficult journey.
 
icesong said:
To be honest, if you don’t like small children and are looking forward to having an older one… I’m not sure that’s a choice I’d make again. Everyone swore up one side and down the other “you’ll be ok, it’s different when it’s yours”… it is and it isn’t. Mostly you just love them madly and STILL can’t stand being around them as toddlers/small children, which is miserable and you end up feeling very very guilty about it. It IS better once they’re older but you’re still signing up for quite a difficult journey.
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Re-reading the comment, this sounds potentially awfully accurate. I guess my future possibility to moan "why didn't anybody tell me" is gone ;)
 
icesong said:
To be honest, if you don’t like small children and are looking forward to having an older one… I’m not sure that’s a choice I’d make again. Everyone swore up one side and down the other “you’ll be ok, it’s different when it’s yours”… it is and it isn’t. Mostly you just love them madly and STILL can’t stand being around them as toddlers/small children, which is miserable and you end up feeling very very guilty about it. It IS better once they’re older but you’re still signing up for quite a difficult journey.
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Ditto. No rose coloured glasses from this guy. The early years brutalized our (group) time.

Don't even get me started on how it completely negatively impacted sex (post pregnancy).

Once they turned... 4 and started functioning it became a bit easier. Even better at 8 or 9.

I would not want to relive the early years and in fact I am fixed. No chance. There wasnt a single thing easy or simple early on.
 
It IS frustrating because I can't pinpoint any good reasons why I want kids. It's mainly an almost-pressing feeling that seems very subconscious/hormonal, combatting equally pressing (and very conscious) fears.

The fears are clear: I currently have lower energy levels than a normal person (worsened after covid), with lack of sleep I get depressed (that has been so forever), and with overstimulation, I do get nervous and exhausted breakdowns. Mental health conditions are just not good, I could easily hurt myself AND the kid. (On the other hand, I also know women whose mental health stabilised considerably when they suddenly had to take care of another being.) And no, I don't enjoy playing with kids, I get bored really easily (although I think to some extent I could learn and find ways to enjoy that).

The reasons to have one are obscured.
Intellectually (or even on a purely emotional level) I can't figure out good reasons. Well, there is one - there is at least a chance your kid will make old age less lonely. That's a big reason for me, and I suspect it's a bad reason.
Emotionally, I do like babies, the little ones (well, who doesn't). I very much look forward to holding and carrying one. I'm very much drawn to the closeness.
That being said, anything aged 8months-3 years I'd like to kill as soon as I see it. 4-9 years are better, but still not great, although, you can teach that about the world (in a more structured way than a toddler), and that part would be fun. I'm looking forward to re-learning and rediscovering through the child's eyes.
Also, children are good at unobscured joy - I realise the moments when you can share it are few and far between, but it is a thing worth sharing.
Summed up like that, it does NOT sound like it's worth it. It's just my body seems to think otherwise.
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Historically, I always thought I would have kids, but I just always moved the timeline. In my early twenties I wanted to have two (I have a brother very close in age, and I think that was a great plus in my childhood). While this is of course partly social pressure (like, every woman is expected to have kids), I do think there was/is something authentic about that. I know people who just never felt the urge to have a biological offspring. Not me. The wish was always there, albeit in a very romanticised way.

Then, around age 25, Idealist came and shook my world. I fell in love so madly - with a man who already had a partner. This was beyond my emotional control. After a very bad breakup with my previous (monogamous) partner, we formed a relationship with Idealist, that was despite all turmoil very happy. Mad love and passion lasted for years. It wasn't, however, clear at all if "we had a future", and it was a painful process to sort out differences and find a way to cohabitate. Also, 2019, Idealist had a kid with Meta.

2020, right before covid, we finally found this flat and settled into a more sustainable relationship shape. I was in the final stages of my phd. I had rather frequent health problems (respiratory diseases lasting weeks several times a year). I also had a decision to make: After finishing PhD, go for postdocs (abroad). Possibly break up with Idealist, as I could not imagine going long-distance for an extended period of time. Or, stay. Try for kids. Change career.
I wasn't secure in my expertise, feared going abroad alone, and wasn't even sure if I liked working in physics. I stayed. Tried to find work out of my field.

Then, possibly due to covid, but perhaps also the stress on life-change, my physical and mental health tanked. I had covid for six weeks, continued by tonsilitis, continued by a period of post-covid depression and tiredness. I stayed on sick-leave for 9 months before starting to work part-time in the corporate work.
Stayed a year and a half. Couldn't stand it. Then I gathered all the guts I had to apply for a postdoc position in a "neighbouring" city and got it.

In these depressed two years among illness the wish to have kids disappeared. I vaguely knew this was my intention and it was high time to realize it, but wasn't feeling it. I wasn't secure in my body, which would probably fall apart if I got pregnant. It just wasn't on the table.

When I got my postdoc, part of my depression was lifted, and the urge to have kids just hit me like a storm. It's weird shit, it's not even an emotion, it's like my body is screaming in a voice that may be unwise to ignore.
 
Tinwen said:
I'll be 35 very soon and really approaching the age when it's "Child or no child, decide now." It's tough and it doesn't fit well with restarting my scientific career.
Of course, there's no good time career-wise, it's just a big topic for me, because losing my field of study and having to work in the corporate world really sent me for a long, depressed spin.
The personal topics are even more daunting, though. Am I in good enough shape, health-wise and otherwise? Is my relationship in a good enough shape? Can we manage? Is this a good idea?
I can't stand a toddler for more than ten minutes. Will this be different with my own, or am I just allowing my hormones to catch me in a huge, unhappy trap? Will I be able to take care of myself enough to feel satisfied with life (if not happy) while taking care for another being?
As you can see, I'm leaning "Yes, ASAP" (the infamous biological clock), but it's hard.
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Oh god. If you can't stand a toddler for more than ten minutes, please don't bring one into the world. Some toddlers are easier than others, too. What if you get a really fussy one extremely prone to tantrums, a very picky eater, one that never sleeps, one that is extremely destructive? It will ... well, I won't say it will destroy you, but it will definitely reduce your quality of life to a huge extent.
 
Magdlyn said:
Oh god. If you can't stand a toddler for more than ten minutes, please don't bring one into the world. Some toddlers are easier than others, too. What if you get a really fussy one extremely prone to tantrums, a very picky eater, one that never sleeps, one that is extremely destructive? It will ... well, I won't say it will destroy you, but it will definitely reduce your quality of life to a huge extent.
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Hm, I can understand tantrums and picky eating, so that's something I can get through. I've been given empathy and some dose of patience. What I'm really afraid of it is 1) the lack of sleep (though most children start sleeping fine at a certain age), 2) the part where you always have to have an eye on them and never really get to rest or focus, 3) that I might not be able to find a way to play and spend time with them in an at least semi-satisfying way, which will lead to infinite frustration on both sides (and yai, tantrums and destructiveness).

So, unless hormones do work to help create a nice relationship, this decision might make me miserable. But I'm afraid the decision to remain childless might make me lonely and full of regret too - I've seen the misery of some people who remained childless and it resonated. Relationships are important to me, and this is a unique one.
 
If you don't like toddlers and little kids, you could adopt an older child. There are lots of older children who need parents. There is nothing special about anyone's DNA.

 
ref2018 said:
If you don't like toddlers and little kids, you could adopt an older child. There are lots of older children who need parents. There is nothing special about anyone's DNA.
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Oh no, somehow that doesn't appeal - if I'm to go through the stress, I'd rather it be my own. Thank you for the video!
 
I've raised kids but I'm not a bio parent. Over the years, the people I've seen who haven't thrived as parents have been in two broad categories.

The first are those who essentially have dependency issues or similarly chaotic lives due to things like trauma.

The second are people who have what it seems to be unfulfilled expectations of parenthood. I can think of a few examples, a cousin I have who is highly academic and has a similarly gifted husband. She expected to have kids who are both similarly talented and have common interests to her and her husband. She found it quite difficult when it became clear they are not that way inclined.

That's quite a common theme, actually, realising that nature only go so far, and hopes and wishes go practically nowhere.

Another example are those who believed they'd never have to be a disciplinarian if they just had the right intentions (read:hopes and wishes). The type that wants to be friends and treat their child as an equal. They've never practiced instilling boundaries so when they have a child who then requires boundaries to keep them safe and aid their emotional development, they can't be that parent and feel a sense of frustration and inadequacy.

What I found from my experience raising kids is that upon making the choice to fulfil that "raising" role, you are obligated to engage with them on their terms in a way that is unlike any other relationship. Even when it comes to other children you may spend time with, the child has a little more obligation to go with your flow. Adapt to your surroundings. Adjust to your timetable.

When you raise kids, you have to build your life around supporting their development. If you have a child with atypical development due to a disability or neurodiversity, even more so. Even as a non bio "raiser", my employment availability was affected, my social life, my personal space. And it was not even in a way you could reliably predict or plan for. It all depends where they are in five years time, not where you'd like to be.
 
Thanks, this conversation has been helpful in making me think more about my reasons, and perhaps an impulz to initiate more real-life conversations too. Any further commentary is appreciated.
 
From what I read you don't sound mentally, emotionally and spiritually ready for a child, and would mostly consider it out of FOMO?

You will never know what kind of child you are getting, and the formative years is the most important phase for a kid's development. You need to really connect until the age of 6/7, and after that they kind of start to have their "own lives" depending on their situation and personality.

How about maybe adopting a puppy first, and see how that goes? It's nowhere near the same, but atleast you will get a vague idea what it will be like.
 
LaminarFlow said:
From what I read you don't sound mentally, emotionally and spiritually ready for a child, and would mostly consider it out of FOMO?

You will never know what kind of child you are getting, and the formative years is the most important phase for a kid's development. You need to really connect until the age of 6/7, and after that they kind of start to have their "own lives" depending on their situation and personality.

How about maybe adopting a puppy first, and see how that goes? It's nowhere near the same, but at least you will get a vague idea what it will be like.
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When it comes to creating another human being where there wasn't one before, it's better to regret something you haven't done than to regret something you have done.
 
ref2018 said:
When it comes to creating another human being where there wasn't one before, it's better to regret something you haven't done than to regret something you have done.
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That's very true.
But what I think that is going on is, that this is not a matter of not wanting or wanting. She does feel she wants one, but situationally far from being ready to be in that mindset of knowing her own stress bandwidth that comes with taking care of and raising another (human) being.

If she will have patience to take care of an erratic puppy, things might look a bit more positively.
And she still has time to prepare herself for that. Two of my aunts had their first kids when they were 40, so it's not that she has to decide very quickly unless she has to pick a random fella from the street for it.
 
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I don't want a puppy that is almost as much work as a child but never grows up, so much is clear :D

Am I wrong to feel there is something deeply spiritual about going through the whole experience of pregnancy and childbirth and holding the little infant? Isn't that the seed of mad love that Icesong mentioned, and the transformative experience which helps you transition into a new lifestyle?

(I'm not saying it's the only way or that people who adopt love their kids any less!)
 
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